Any system where you can pay a sub with in game currency directly crates an exchange rate for real cash to game currency and thus for me, is disastrous. As others have said it creates a preferred currency which does not bode well for the game economy.
On the issue of this then only leaving the subs/expansions as sources of funding for the game, so be it. That model is certainly a capable one, and if you're game really needs extra funding (which is inherently variable in just how much you may even get in a given month) that doesn't instill much confidence in the longevity of the game anyway.
oneADseven said:I recently finished working on an idea that I feel could add some value to this discussion. Unfortunately, I can only present it in PDF-format and am unable to upload it to this site. If anybody is interested in checking it out and providing feedback, feel free to send me a PM on Discord. Username: 1AD7#7153
I got a chance to read your idea and it presents some interesting ideas.
Like i was saying it does not really require an in game item to be able to purchase playable time.
Thus the influx of illegal methods, it really only takes a person setting up a website payment system, allowing the client to send or "Gift" play time to that users account.
Gift being the thing, that it auto starts the clock once accepted. You are unable to trade it once it is in your account.
You really would see a ton of people not getting involved since it sends to the users account or email. It would be for those that only want to Gift it to a friend or family member.
RMT systems or whatever would not get too much involved either, doing so would mean they are using a bot account to trade in game money for time, pay me up front etc... Nobody is going to do that in fear of having their accounts hacked.
NO warranty.
vjek said:So, a few opinions from a narrow minded selfish human with 20+ years of experience playing MMO's, which you should ignore if you don't care:
We're used to developers deceiving us, so be patient. In the past, dev posts like "What do you think of..?" are ~inevitably followed by "We're implementing.." regardless of what the community says. So again, history is teaching some of us to be very wary when you bring up controversial topics like investing in RMT, even as a theorycrafting exercise.
Krono has completely changed how EQ1 is played. Today, it is THE currency in-game, and is used to buy any in-era tradeable item or Epic. Sure, you could come up with a variation on the theme of implementation, but when you fix the price in $USD of a trade-able in-game item, don't be surprised when the entire economy, and in fact, the point of the game, shifts focus to being a RL job to make RL profit with that trade-able in-game item worth $USD.
And to be clear, what I'm describing is the reality of EQ1 TLP servers today, where Krono is THE HOUSEHOLD INCOME of many many many large guilds. People play EQ1 TLP and farm and harvest krono, items & characters as their means of living. It's their primary revenue stream to buy pudding cups to put in their kids lunch, if you see where I'm going with this.If you want a solution to kurb, restrict, or halt gold farming, data mine your forums. Or implement a design for your game that ISN'T a loot system from 1999, and actually fixes the source of the problem: infinite gold/item taps and account trading. If you're unwilling to do either or both of those, you are not (IMHO) committed to actually moving the genre forward with a "clever" solution. There are better ways, and dozens or hundreds of those better ways have been enumerated on these forums over the past 3+ years. If you don't see data mining your own forums as viable? Then put up an https://ideascale.com/ and let us iterate on innovation until we have a solution. To be blunt, 30 smart people will never have the collective wisdom and intellect of 10,000 smart people.
And for the record? If you put Krono/Plex or anything remotely similar to investing in RMT in Pantheon? I will not play, no-one I know IRL will play, and I will spend the rest of my days telling everyone I know to avoid Pantheon and just play EQ1 instead, because it would end up being the same toxic cancer. (and EQ1 has more content) That's how much of an impact Krono has had on EQ1 and would have on Pantheon.
X
Great post, I wish I could give you a Like.
Would you mind sharing a bit more on what you mean about "item taps". Do you mean, being able to farm items/gold? Also, how do people farm krono? I thought you just paid real money for it. Do you mean farming in game items to trade for Krono, then selling it on auction sites for real money?
Vandraad said:oneADseven said:I recently finished working on an idea that I feel could add some value to this discussion. Unfortunately, I can only present it in PDF-format and am unable to upload it to this site. If anybody is interested in checking it out and providing feedback, feel free to send me a PM on Discord. Username: 1AD7#7153
I got a chance to read your idea and it presents some interesting ideas.
Got to read your idea as well and it does look interesting.
After discussing it with you in more detail, I do like how it sounds.
-Az
bigdogchris said: Great post, I wish I could give you a Like.Would you mind sharing a bit more on what you mean about "item taps". Do you mean, being able to farm items/gold? Also, how do people farm krono? I thought you just paid real money for it. Do you mean farming in game items to trade for Krono, then selling it on auction sites for real money?
Yes, and yes. That's what happens in EQ1 today. There is a plat<->krono exchange rate, so as is the case with any currency disparity situation, you can take advantage of it over time, as the plat side of the equation is slowly manipulated.
As far as item taps, what I mean is, having mobs drop finished equippable static items means there is no scarcity over time, just like having the infinite supply of creatures drop an infinite supply of gold, over time.
If you design an online economy with different design goals than Pantheon, you can make the economy a zero sum game, or you can make the time you invest playing your character be the "currency" you spend in advancing your characters personal power.
But again, it's all pointless if account trading is allowed, because even if you did address all of this, and still permit accounts to be traded, RMT'ers will simply sell / trade accounts.
If VR was willing to set policy regarding account and character transfers, then they could take the innovative step of making a fun and challenging economy loop without repeating the historically proven failure of the "infinite-everything" model, which would be awesome for the genre, imo.
@Vjek - I think you're right that boundaries need to be pushed to see the next generation of economic system. There will undoubtedly be better solutions over time when developers decide to get ambitious, but ambition comes at a cost.
With respect to what we know about this game though, I don't see how you break the cycle, even with time being the currency. Time is the lowest common denominator and with the RMT that we're trying to stave off, that's in effect what's being traded. Time invested yields rewards. If said rewards can be traded, then you have a platform for RMT and mitigation/enforcement is the remaining approach as it is now. If you can't trade the rewards, then you don't really have an economy. I don't see how this base structure can be fundamentally changed, but that surely doesn't mean it can't be.
Zeem said:Yarnila said:The general idea behind Kronos or Plex or whatever you want to call it was a good one. The problem was the distribution and handling of these systems. A means to help those who don`t have the money to sub frequently was a nice thought.
I do however agree that the way it has been handled in the past has destroyed the games. There is however maybe a way to get this done without the issues of turning everything into "gold farming" or basing the Value on the "Kronos/Plex/Whatever"
I think there are ways to combat the issues these provided and will give it some thought on how to suggest a system that does not take away from the game and turn it into a gold farming simulation but still provide the services intended meaning additional funds coming to VR and helping players that don't have all that much money.
My initial ideas:
Have these Krono/Plex on a fixed sales value that cannot be manipulated by the PC Economy
Have a Vendor in-game where you have to turn it into and you get a choice of rewards maybe FOR YOUR CHARACTER ONLY! Limited gold value! The traded Krono/Plex would then be something that an in-game NPC Vendor would put up for sale at a price valued by the game itself.
Buddy Plex/Krono only! Meaning you can purchase these items but only as a gift for someone else ?
I am sure there are ways to help those in need and earn additional funds for those with $ I just haventseen it yet. The gesture behind the idea is nice but like mentioned a plenty it needs to be nonabusive, non exploitable, not game devastating.
I am sure with enough discussion on this something could be worked out.
Regardless the outcome of this i would not miss it if it wasn`t there. But not everything on the matter is negative, there were good intentions behind it i would like to believe that also reward the company by having additional income options.
If VR wanted to have a way to buy game time from in-game items then they can have a NPC that sells gametime for a gold amount. That won't stop gold farmers tho but will add to it as people need gold now and it will deminish the actual total revenue per account as now someone is playing for free.
Thats not the case because they would be doing this for more sales revenue. So they have to have a tradeable item people can buy then sell it in game to others for gold. Theres no way to have a fixed item value for a tradeable item unless the player can buy AND sell them to a NPC for the fixed price. Seeing as the NPC sells them also that allows plex to enter the world without real world money so basically the game could become free to play given enough time and effort is put into farming gold to buy plex from the NPC. If everyone does this VR gets no revenue from subscriptions or plex sales.
So plex would have to come from real money only and be tradeable which means no way to have it a fixed value in game as if someone is selling them below vendor price or buying above vendor price they are losing money.
Just want to carify Zeem,
You misunderstood what i ment by selling from an NPC. You will still have to purchase this plex for real money but you can ONLY sell it to an ingame placed vendor from the Dev team. That gives you a choice of values. Then that Plex/Krono would be available on the Market from the DEV Vendor only and they controll the cost for it.
So they still make an income. Only difference is instead of us controlling the value of the Plex/Krono VR would have full control of this. And it becomes a lucky not lucky thing because you could have the Vendor release the turned in Plex/Krono at a time controlled by the Devs. So you have to go looking to see if the Vendor got any trade ins or not.
Yarnila said:Zeem said:Yarnila said:The general idea behind Kronos or Plex or whatever you want to call it was a good one. The problem was the distribution and handling of these systems. A means to help those who don`t have the money to sub frequently was a nice thought.
I do however agree that the way it has been handled in the past has destroyed the games. There is however maybe a way to get this done without the issues of turning everything into "gold farming" or basing the Value on the "Kronos/Plex/Whatever"
I think there are ways to combat the issues these provided and will give it some thought on how to suggest a system that does not take away from the game and turn it into a gold farming simulation but still provide the services intended meaning additional funds coming to VR and helping players that don't have all that much money.
My initial ideas:
Have these Krono/Plex on a fixed sales value that cannot be manipulated by the PC Economy
Have a Vendor in-game where you have to turn it into and you get a choice of rewards maybe FOR YOUR CHARACTER ONLY! Limited gold value! The traded Krono/Plex would then be something that an in-game NPC Vendor would put up for sale at a price valued by the game itself.
Buddy Plex/Krono only! Meaning you can purchase these items but only as a gift for someone else ?
I am sure there are ways to help those in need and earn additional funds for those with $ I just haventseen it yet. The gesture behind the idea is nice but like mentioned a plenty it needs to be nonabusive, non exploitable, not game devastating.
I am sure with enough discussion on this something could be worked out.
Regardless the outcome of this i would not miss it if it wasn`t there. But not everything on the matter is negative, there were good intentions behind it i would like to believe that also reward the company by having additional income options.
If VR wanted to have a way to buy game time from in-game items then they can have a NPC that sells gametime for a gold amount. That won't stop gold farmers tho but will add to it as people need gold now and it will deminish the actual total revenue per account as now someone is playing for free.
Thats not the case because they would be doing this for more sales revenue. So they have to have a tradeable item people can buy then sell it in game to others for gold. Theres no way to have a fixed item value for a tradeable item unless the player can buy AND sell them to a NPC for the fixed price. Seeing as the NPC sells them also that allows plex to enter the world without real world money so basically the game could become free to play given enough time and effort is put into farming gold to buy plex from the NPC. If everyone does this VR gets no revenue from subscriptions or plex sales.
So plex would have to come from real money only and be tradeable which means no way to have it a fixed value in game as if someone is selling them below vendor price or buying above vendor price they are losing money.
Just want to carify Zeem,
You misunderstood what i ment by selling from an NPC. You will still have to purchase this plex for real money but you can ONLY sell it to an ingame placed vendor from the Dev team. That gives you a choice of values. Then that Plex/Krono would be available on the Market from the DEV Vendor only and they controll the cost for it.
So they still make an income. Only difference is instead of us controlling the value of the Plex/Krono VR would have full control of this. And it becomes a lucky not lucky thing because you could have the Vendor release the turned in Plex/Krono at a time controlled by the Devs. So you have to go looking to see if the Vendor got any trade ins or not.
It's a sickening idea and you can twist and spin all you want about it, but you're 100% straight up describing a mechanic to use real money to improve your character in the game.
vjek said:
We're used to developers deceiving us, so be patient. In the past, dev posts like "What do you think of..?" are ~inevitably followed by "We're implementing.." regardless of what the community says. So again, history is teaching some of us to be very wary when you bring up controversial topics like investing in RMT, even as a theorycrafting exercise.
Vjek's whole post was pretty spot on, but I would like to emphasize this ^ part.
VR has laid out the foundations of the game. Stick to what has been advertsised. That is why we are here. The game as advertised has been laid out in things like the game tenants and the Pantheon difference, blogs and general communication with the community over the years. All of it combined.
We are used to developers deceiving us. Bringing up these types of ideas makes many people fear the worst. Don't discuss these types of questionable decisions with the community. They *should be* easily dismissed in house.
I have seen some very questionable ideas coming from Brad lately which veer away from the game that has been promised. If the dev teams integrity fails so does the game.
The fact that so much time was obviously put into this type of discussion makes me question the validity of many of the other foundations that the game is supposedly based upon.
@Aradune,
First, let me say that I am glad you brought it up. My first response was like yours, a gut reaction “NO” but I read through all the responses… and I honestly wondered, “can it be done?” There are many solid ideas on limitations or things to put into place for either side of the equation… and it made me realize that maybe this problem is unsolvable in its current form because the problem of PLEX actually combines two different stated “end-goals” and tries to merge them into one solution.. .. and that leads me to 1AD7’s site and his ideas. I was very impressed. I realized that he divided the problem and asked the real question that was behind PLEX in the first place, “How do you combat gold sellers?” I really loved his ideas. I highly recommend people go read them.
Thanks again Brad for engaging us and asking for our opinions!!
philo said:Vjek's whole post was pretty spot on, but I would like to emphasize this ^ part.
VR has laid out the foundations of the game. Stick to what has been advertsised. That is why we are here. The game as advertised has been laid out in things like the game tenants and the Pantheon difference, blogs and general communication with the community over the years. All of it combined.
We are used to developers deceiving us. Bringing up these types of ideas makes many people fear the worst. Don't discuss these types of questionable decisions with the community. They *should be* easily dismissed in house.
I have seen some very questionable ideas coming from Brad lately which veer away from the game that has been promised. If the dev teams integrity fails so does the game.
The fact that so much time was obviously put into this type of discussion makes me question the validity of many of the other foundations that the game is supposedly based upon.
It seems pretty clear reading through his responses within this thread what he was thinking, what he was after and that he doesn't intend to pursue it
In that context, responses like yours appear to be much closer to personal attacks than actual discussion
Sure, other developers and game designers have done other things, but that was other people, not these people
Your experiences with other people may justify some concern on your part but not questioning someone's integrity
Context... Maybe go back and re-read what he actually said, because posting this now, after all that, seems pretty irrational
The integrity is what was being questioned after a post about RMTs when this game has always been advertised as subscription only. Brad was quick to respond after the original post to smooth things out. This type of thing has happened before. Just like the pet thread where everyone got upset and the original message had a flashing disclaimer added to it later as well as the explanatory response...
Is that really the best way to realize that there will be mass disapproval of an idea? It seems like there has to be a better way.
Not sure where the integrity comes into question as Brad seems to be pretty honest in his posts. A sad day when a dev can't open a conversation with the community about a topic just to hear different experiences/points of view and get feedback + possibly brainstorm new ideas where possible.
Here is the pet thread mentioned above: https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/3448/pets-and-pantheon/view/page/1
philo said:The integrity is what was being questioned after a post about RMTs when this game has always been advertised as subscription only. Brad was quick to respond after the original post to smooth things out. This type of thing has happened before. Just like the pet thread where everyone got upset and the original message had a flashing disclaimer added to it later as well as the explanatory response...
Is that really the best way to realize that there will be mass disapproval of an idea? It seems like there has to be a better way.
Others have already addressed this. I really think you are missing the point. Actually, a few different points.
DragonFist said:Others have already addressed this. I really think you are missing the point. Actually, a few different points.
I addressed this on the second page of this thread prior to the "response".
Iksar said: Not sure where the integrity comes into question as Brad seems to be pretty honest in his posts.
I see the response as backtracking after seeing such a negative response. Like mentioned, there is a history of this. I think we all understand where the integrity comes in when discussing the possibility of RMTs in Pantheon.
A sad day when a dev can't open a conversation with the community about a topic just to hear different experiences/points of view and get feedback + possibly brainstorm new ideas where possible.
This wasn't such an obvious question that it didn't need to be discussed? Maybe I'm giving everyone to much credit. I could have told you what many of the responses would have been before hand. Some things should be easily handled in house. Avoiding a community uproar would have been a plus. There is simply no need to discuss this in the community. Any publicity is not actually good publicity.
When Brad asked that question about Plex, (kronos etc) he was looking for community feedback, he was playing devil's advocate.
Definition: In common parlance, the term devil's advocate describes someone who, given a certain point of view, takes a position he or she does not necessarily agree with (or simply an alternative position from the accepted norm), for the sake of debate or to explore the thought further.
Despite being ancient, this idiomatic expression is one of the most popular present-day English idioms used to express the concept of arguing against something without actually being committed to the contrary view.[2]
As for my own take on this, I am glad that Kilsin, Brad and others do this with us from time to time, it gives the VR team a better overall consensus of OUR views..as the Pantheon community. I would rather they ask these unpopular questions...this is a good thing, not a bad thing. :)
Cana
Philo,
I have enjoyed having a good amount of meaningful dialogue with you, but I feel obliged to repeat a phrase that you once told me. "Please understand what is being discussed here." Brad threw us a "curveball." Not a fast ball, not a change up, not a slider, and definitely not a spitball. He specifically mentioned in his original post that he was curious about our feedback as it pertains to plex existing on a "special ruleset server." Brad has been doing this for a long time and how you could suggest that he wasn't fully aware of how his post might be received is beyond me. This same exact topic came up in the VIP forum and the responses were quite different. Using that example alone, I feel there was enough respectful dialogue between him and the VIP community to warrant him bringing this idea up to a larger audience.
I have re-read this entire thread and there is a very important story and lesson to be learned here. Most players appreciate his willingness to engage with us. Many players agree with his initial gut reaction, but are also open to the idea that not everything is black and white, just as he suggested. I think it's imperative that an open and healthy window of communication is maintained between the development team and the audience they have attracted. I understand that you are a passionate player, just like I am. We all hold the potential of this game near and dear to our heart. Brad once suggested in one of his blogs that it's far better to see people actively championing their beliefs (whether for or against something) than it is to see complacency. It shows that people aren't bored, and that they are genuinely vested in the success of this game.
I agree with all of that, but would like to reinforce the value of respectful communication. In your original post you alluded to several things, some of which I mentioned that I agree with you on. Seeing this thread devolve into it's current state, however, is making me regret that decision as I am starting to feel guilty by association. I do not mean to sound harsh when I say this, but I would like to sincerely ask you to refrain from furthering what appears to be a vindictive agenda. I appreciate your knowledge and experience with this genre but I feel you are crossing the line with some of the implications in your messages, no matter how subtle. Again, please understand what is being discussed here. Wonderful things can happen when people pull together and share their collective wisdom, but mutual respect should always have a commanding presence amongst us.
This is not a personal attack against you. I do hope that we can continue to have meaningful dialogue in the future. In any event, I want you to know that I understand why you have your reservations. The MMO industry doesen't have the best reputation and it's quite clear that a lot of people have their guard up. That aside, many of us are fully confident that VR is the company who can repair that reputation. There is nothing sly or underhanded going on here. If there was any motivation for the bait and switch that has been alluded to, this topic would never have come up in the first place. VR could very easily push out their game and then sell it to the highest lootbox approving bidder down the road. That's what an integrity lacking company would do. Discussing curveballs with an engaged audience, that wants to be challenged, and in a public format, is perfectly fine. This is what we signed up for.
I would like to echo this sentiment to anybody else who wants to strangle the creative breath from the lungs of this thread. Embrace the position we find ourselves in. If you cannot think outside the box, please do not assume that others aren't more than happy or capable to do so. It would be nice if we could express our opinions and ideas without the doomsday alarms going off in the background just because someone felt an impulsive itch.
This has certainly been a passionate discussion and I think for the most part demonstrates the maturity of the Pantheon player community.
For me it comes down to a hard line that I've taken against what I believe are disingenous practices by game designers. I completely avoid certain companies because they have cash stores. I quit playing games as soon as they are introduced. I have no interest in a game that has cash store ties to in-game benefits/items or in-game elements tied to subscription or any other potential avenue for RMT. Every player should be on an equal footing in-game once their monthly subscription is paid. For me it's a principle that I don't compromise. I also don't play games from companies that do nothing but buy up intellectual property and squash innovation. For the record, relaunching the same game repeatedly with new server rules is not innovation by any stretch of my imagination, so you can guess what games I haven't been playing in the last fewf years.
I'm looking forward to Pantheon, but in a heartbeat I would write off my pledge investment plus any time played at the first sign of links between in-game and RL transactions.
Gaming is recreational for me. It's not a job. No matter how seriously I take things in game or how many hours I'm investing, it's still just a game. If a game's community/culture/economy become toxic, I just walk away. It's too easy to get sucked into toxic gaming environments and forget that you can step away. I'm not talking about rage quitting, just making a conscious effort to do something that doesn't get your blood pressure up for the wrong reasons.
Heaven forbid, your computer has a power switch / sleep mode and you could go do some real life adventuring, exploring, crafting, and meeting new friends.
I did not read all 9 pages but would like to share my experience with this mechanic.
On the EQ1 progressive server they have Krono that you buy from EQs web page for something like $17 or something. The idea is that if you need some in game cash you can buy this and then sell it in game for gold. The problem is the krono becomes the new goal of the game. People camp items not because they need them but so they can get kronos.
For example I was invited to a camp with my Mage and needed the robe that dropped at it (lower guk). When I joined I was told the group was doing an open roll for the robe which I though was kind of odd being I was the only one that could put it on. When I asked they said they all wanted it for the kronos it was worth. When I put up my feelings that because I needed it for my character I should get dib’s they basically said their needs where equal because they needed kronos, this happened in almost all my top tier item camps.
Some camps where also prema camped by people that knew that getting one drop payed for 2 or 3 months’ worth of game time. So if they camped it for days on end they could be getting 10+ kronos.
Now the reason people want to Kronos so badly is that you could sell them online for real money. EQ sold them for like $17 and the black market ones would buy them for like $10 and resell them to players for like $14 or something (not sure on exact prices). So some people wanted free game time but most wanted to make real money. They camped the big camps as a job for income not because they wanted to work on their characters.
@187, I think you are over reacting a little bit. I did coment that I felt like I had been trolled after the "response" post. They had to have known what the general reaction would be right?
Some things are black and white. RMTs being one of those for some people. It is a touchy subject. I feel like I'm still getting trolled by responding to it hah...
I do agree that it's touchy Philo but I wouldn't say it's black and white. Maybe it is for some people, and it probably even is for most people who are attracted to this game. I genuinely believe, however, that people should really try to think outside the box when we are discussing something on a development forum, especially when an idea is pitched as a curveball for a special ruleset server from Brad. My initial reaction was similar to most others ... a resounding "No!" However, I continued to follow the thread and had a vested interest in honoring his request which was to try and help devise a plan that could combat RMT. To think of an idea that could leverage the pros of the "controversial features" that so many folks consider black and white, but do so in such a way that minimizes the cons often associated with those same features and the sticker shock emotions that pop up when people hear certain trigger words (vanity merchant, alternate currency, enhanced sub) that they automatically correlate with things like RMT, or P2W. I feel like I have accomplished exactly that, and I attribute ALL of it to Brad approaching us in an open format and asking for feedback. I spent a solid week thinking on and off about this thread and the challenge presented herein, and seeing some of the negative kickback on here really bothered me. Eventually it started fueling me so it is what it is ... everything happens for a reason.
Maybe I am over reacting. Maybe I'm not. In my opinion, any comment that suggests that Brad should never have come to us in the first place is null and void. His approach helped inspire what I feel is an idea that has a mountain of potential as it pertains to winning the war against RMT, and doing it in a way that could reinforce the positive reputation of this game and offset some of VR's costs in the process. That is the premise of my post to you or anybody who shared in what appeared to be disgruntled sentiment. Again, and this is only my opinion, but his request and approach has been justified. I am hoping this can be used as an example moving forward to show that it is okay for him to throw us a curveball now and then. This is what we signed up for. We can handle it. We want more curveballs. We want more challenges. Bring them on ... and don't let anybody or any comment get in the way of that happening. As far as you feeling trolled ... I think it's because of the hard black and white stance being showcased front and center on a development forum where people should be dreaming up rainbows and unicorns every now and then. To have our visionary leader present a challenge to us and have that effort be responded to with phrases that suggest he is trying to pull off a bait and switch, has sneaky motives, etc -- that, is trolling. For anybody who called him out in a less than gracious way, you reap what you sow as far as I am concerned.
I'm glad you got something out of. I feel that it was a misstep. You disagree. There have been similar discussions on other forums. The negativitey surrounding the idea wasn't just here. It could have been handled better to not cause such a disturbance. It happens /shrug. Not the end of the world.
I would love to hear your feedback on my idea. I mentioned it never would have materialized if it wasn't for how everything transpired on this thread. My hope is that we can redirect our focus toward "what is possible" rather than "this is impossible." Just make sure you read the bullet list as it helps convey some very important rules on how it would work.
Celandor, Rumor, Vandraad and Azaya -- I really do appreciate all of you taking the time to dive into the idea and share your observations. I think I summed up my thoughts on P2W on page 2 -- it is something I strongly oppose in any way shape or form. I do believe, however, that there is potential for VR to evolve the genre (and this specific element of it) and come out on top of this otherwise very sensitive topic. We have been betrayed, used and manipulated by other developers in the past. That is a big reason why I am here! I think with every challenge there is also an opportunity to overcome it (and look good in the process in a bardly kind of way). I am "all-in" on Pantheon and I think the world of this community. I think we can find a happy medium that could allow VR to leverage the idea of "keeping up with the times on securing additional funding" but do so in a way that remains consistent with the vision that has been communicated. Celandor, I find your input particularly valuable because of your adamant stance on being willing to walk away from something that has any hint of P2W. If it's possible to achieve any kind of compromise on what has otherwise been iterated as a black/white stance, I think we are making great progress and that speaks volumes to me. Thank you all, again!