Forums » The Dire Lord

Shadow Knight 2.0 hopes

    • 2 posts
    November 20, 2017 7:02 PM PST

    They better have FD pulling, 2H swords, darkness, spear and life tap spells along with HT on the Dire Lord in this game! 

    • 1067 posts
    November 20, 2017 7:05 PM PST

    I take it you're not wanting a Vanguard Dread Lord type of character, that has abilities based on dread?

    • 103 posts
    November 20, 2017 9:03 PM PST

    I'm guessing they purposely changed the name around to differentiate the class from previous iterations. Going by that I think it's a fair assumption to think it will not have exactly the same abilities and utilities we've seen previously.

    The name Dire Lord could be translated to "Master of causing great fear or suffering", making me think its design will be more focused on negative auras, affecting the mental state of their enemies, debuffing their ability to fight and slowly killing them over time (DoTs).

    • 94 posts
    November 21, 2017 12:02 PM PST

    But Harm Touch is in right??

     

    Right?

    • 37 posts
    November 22, 2017 2:15 PM PST

    kelenin said:

    I take it you're not wanting a Vanguard Dread Lord type of character, that has abilities based on dread?

     

    I did not have the chance to play Dread Lord but I would be happy if the Dire Lord in Pantheon is designed in a similar way.. lot of AOE, debuffs, damage over time abilitie, toxic/poison damage. Dire Lord would be able to absorb life from his ennemies if they are previously debuffed/cursed.

    • 216 posts
    November 24, 2017 12:36 AM PST
    As long as HT has a shorter cooldown!
    • 77 posts
    November 28, 2017 2:45 PM PST

    We talked about Harm Touch in the Pantheon Discord Channel last night.  Harm Touch in vanilla EQ had a 72 minute cooldown and did (Level * 10) + 1 damage.  A level 50 Shadow Knight would do 501 damage that was nearly unresistable.  A level 50 non-player character (NPC) had about 5,000 hitpoints on average, but hitpoints increased exponentially based upon level for NPCs.  Therefore, at level 50, Harm Touch did approximately 10-percent of the NPC's life in one hit.  However, a level 25 non-player character had about 1,250 hit points, and Harm Touch did 20-percent of the NPC's life in one hit.  In other words, the higher level the Shadow Knight, the worse (but still useful) Harm Touch became. 

    In Pantheon, I would like to see Harm Touch have the following features:

    * 30 minute cooldown with a 60 minute maximum charge time;
    * Dire Lord could use the Harm Touch after 30 minutes, but it would be 50-percent less effective than if he waited an additional 30 minutes, and this would scale based upon the time to charge;
    * Harm Touch would cause immense agro to the target and significant agro to all NPCs within 10 meters;
    * Harm Touch would cause damage that increased linearly based on the Dire Lord's level, plus a moderate intelligence modifier ((Level * 10) + (INT * 1.5) or 950 damage at Level 50 with 300 intelligence (maximum).  Fighting an equal level NPC, base damage would be approximately 50-percent of a normal level 1 NPC's health, and 10-percent of a level 50's health. 
    * Harm Touch can be resisted based upon a percentage factored by charisma and wisdom.  The higher the wisdom, lower the charisma, and higher the Dire Lord is from the target, the less the Harm Touch can be resisted.

    • 49 posts
    November 29, 2017 2:15 PM PST

    metteec said:

    We talked about Harm Touch in the Pantheon Discord Channel last night.  Harm Touch in vanilla EQ had a 72 minute cooldown and did (Level * 10) + 1 damage.  A level 50 Shadow Knight would do 501 damage that was nearly unresistable.  A level 50 non-player character (NPC) had about 5,000 hitpoints on average, but hitpoints increased exponentially based upon level for NPCs.  Therefore, at level 50, Harm Touch did approximately 10-percent of the NPC's life in one hit.  However, a level 25 non-player character had about 1,250 hit points, and Harm Touch did 20-percent of the NPC's life in one hit.  In other words, the higher level the Shadow Knight, the worse (but still useful) Harm Touch became. 

    In Pantheon, I would like to see Harm Touch have the following features:

    * 30 minute cooldown with a 60 minute maximum charge time;
    * Dire Lord could use the Harm Touch after 30 minutes, but it would be 50-percent less effective than if he waited an additional 30 minutes, and this would scale based upon the time to charge;
    * Harm Touch would cause immense agro to the target and significant agro to all NPCs within 10 meters;
    * Harm Touch would cause damage that increased linearly based on the Dire Lord's level, plus a moderate intelligence modifier ((Level * 10) + (INT * 1.5) or 950 damage at Level 50 with 300 intelligence (maximum).  Fighting an equal level NPC, base damage would be approximately 50-percent of a normal level 1 NPC's health, and 10-percent of a level 50's health. 
    * Harm Touch can be resisted based upon a percentage factored by charisma and wisdom.  The higher the wisdom, lower the charisma, and higher the Dire Lord is from the target, the less the Harm Touch can be resisted.

    I don't really care if HT makes it into the DL bag of tools (DK in VG was fine without it), and I like the idea of it refereshing more quickly and building up in power, I think I would prefer a mechanic similar to VG's Dreadful Countenance and Bane. DK could build up DC on a mob, then use Bane to nuke based on how much DC was built up.

    Much more strategic, useful and creative than a simple nuke with a timer on it.


    This post was edited by nscheffel at November 29, 2017 2:17 PM PST
    • 13 posts
    December 1, 2017 7:38 AM PST

    HarmTouch is super powerful in PvP don't make it too powerful

    • 103 posts
    December 1, 2017 8:19 AM PST

    trakanon said:

    HarmTouch is super powerful in PvP don't make it too powerful

    In EQ2 Harm Touch had different ratios for PvP. Not that it really matters, as PvP considerations shouldn't be first in line when it comes to anything in this game anyways.

    That being said, I don't really care if Harm Touch is part of their kit or not honestly. If anything, I think it's easier to diversify their kit if they don't have it.

    • 3205 posts
    December 4, 2017 5:40 AM PST

    Menubrea said:

    trakanon said:

    HarmTouch is super powerful in PvP don't make it too powerful

    In EQ2 Harm Touch had different ratios for PvP. Not that it really matters, as PvP considerations shouldn't be first in line when it comes to anything in this game anyways.

    VR said in the very first stream that they are specifically designing all abilities to be tuned separately for PvE and PvP. So for example, if something is balanced in PvE but OP in PvP, they can adjust it to make it balanced in PvP without having any effect on PvE and vice versa. They're completely unrelated.

    • 52 posts
    December 14, 2017 1:24 PM PST

    Kraav said:

    They better have FD pulling, 2H swords, darkness, spear and life tap spells along with HT on the Dire Lord in this game! 

     

    Coming in strong with that better have comment, Kraav. ;) 

    We've discussed it lightly in threads like Dire Lord Lineage, Expectations, and Speculation, but it's very likely Dire Lords will have no feign death as that's a key ability of the monk. I think the best chance we have at getting it, which is something I'm indifferent to personally, is at a very high level and very high recast (cooldown). I would to go as far as say level 40 (if cap is 50) and 2-5 minutes, so we don't steal the limelight from another class. That said, if the Dire Lord's key ability is something along the lines of Harm Touch, I don't expect any other class to come close to having such an ability.

    • 135 posts
    December 17, 2017 9:22 AM PST

    Faelor said:

    Kraav said:

    They better have FD pulling, 2H swords, darkness, spear and life tap spells along with HT on the Dire Lord in this game! 

     

    Coming in strong with that better have comment, Kraav. ;) 

    We've discussed it lightly in threads like Dire Lord Lineage, Expectations, and Speculation, but it's very likely Dire Lords will have no feign death as that's a key ability of the monk. I think the best chance we have at getting it, which is something I'm indifferent to personally, is at a very high level and very high recast (cooldown). I would to go as far as say level 40 (if cap is 50) and 2-5 minutes, so we don't steal the limelight from another class. That said, if the Dire Lord's key ability is something along the lines of Harm Touch, I don't expect any other class to come close to having such an ability.

     

    I'm not terribly concerned with it, but how do you come to the conclusion "it's very likely Dire Lords will have no feign death"? Did I miss an interesting post from a developer that leads you to believe that? I haven't seen much class specific discussion.

    • 101 posts
    January 8, 2018 9:33 AM PST

    I just hope they have an invisibility... I greatly miss my "pre-nurf" circlet of shadows :'(

    May as well play a warrior if they don't have out of combat utilities and have to rely on the same support that a paladin or warrior has to rely on.  I can just RP an evil warrior and not be gimiped in combat (because you know the warrior is going to have more "combat effective" abilities than the other tanks that can use "cool" buffs/debuffs (which I would rather rely on support classes to provide as a tank.)  I know its been mentioned that each tank will have their own niche, but after playing many many MMOs - I'll believe that when I see it.  There may be some juggling with patches increasing/decreasing strengths but I'd be willing to bet that the warrior will still be stronger in combat simply because they don't have spells to supplement; which means in a group/raid with support to take care of the "supplemental spells" that a DL or Pal can bring to the table, the warrior will "likely" be the stronger choice for tanking. 

    I really hope the spell/ability utility is worth it!  Invisibility (or maybe resurrection for Paladin) would be worth it I think.  Feign Death would have been up there, but it really sounds like that will not be a DL ability.  From what I gather, I don't think there will be any kind of invis for the DL :(  

    Maybe after they release the Necro and Bard they can release actual hybrids like the Shadow Guard!  (Supposedly they can't use "Shadow Knight" as a cname because of copyright with EQ/EQ2).  Another option to get that "Shadow Knight/hybrid" fix for some of us would be to hybrid almost any other arcane caster... mage, enchanter(?).  Mage dmg shields/pets to help tank or enchanter runeskins and aoe stuns, threat/hate manipulation... and invis!  The more I think about Warrior/Enchanter hybrid the sadder I get that it will likely never exist;  Communication and timing between CC and Tank is so crucial...

     

    • 49 posts
    January 8, 2018 9:55 AM PST

    Darch said:

    I just hope they have an invisibility... I greatly miss my "pre-nurf" circlet of shadows :'(

    May as well play a warrior if they don't have out of combat utilities and have to rely on the same support that a paladin or warrior has to rely on.  I can just RP an evil warrior and not be gimiped in combat (because you know the warrior is going to have more "combat effective" abilities than the other tanks that can use "cool" buffs/debuffs (which I would rather rely on support classes to provide as a tank.)  I know its been mentioned that each tank will have their own niche, but after playing many many MMOs - I'll believe that when I see it.  There may be some juggling with patches increasing/decreasing strengths but I'd be willing to bet that the warrior will still be stronger in combat simply because they don't have spells to supplement; which means in a group/raid with support to take care of the "supplemental spells" that a DL or Pal can bring to the table, the warrior will "likely" be the stronger choice for tanking. 

    I really hope the spell/ability utility is worth it!  Invisibility (or maybe resurrection for Paladin) would be worth it I think.  Feign Death would have been up there, but it really sounds like that will not be a DL ability.  From what I gather, I don't think there will be any kind of invis for the DL :(  

    Maybe after they release the Necro and Bard they can release actual hybrids like the Shadow Guard!  (Supposedly they can't use "Shadow Knight" as a cname because of copyright with EQ/EQ2).  Another option to get that "Shadow Knight/hybrid" fix for some of us would be to hybrid almost any other arcane caster... mage, enchanter(?).  Mage dmg shields/pets to help tank or enchanter runeskins and aoe stuns, threat/hate manipulation... and invis!  The more I think about Warrior/Enchanter hybrid the sadder I get that it will likely never exist;  Communication and timing between CC and Tank is so crucial...

     

    In VG they did a pretty good job balancing the Warriors, Paladins and Dread Knights as far as tanking went.

    I think we can be fairly confident they will have that dialed in for Pantheon as well.

    • 242 posts
    January 8, 2018 12:52 PM PST

    In VG they did a pretty good job balancing the Warriors, Paladins and Dread Knights as far as tanking went.

    I think we can be fairly confident they will have that dialed in for Pantheon as well.

    Never played VG, but I'm sure it was engaging back then.

    • 21 posts
    January 22, 2018 10:06 AM PST

    Faelor said:

    Kraav said:

    They better have FD pulling, 2H swords, darkness, spear and life tap spells along with HT on the Dire Lord in this game! 

     

    Coming in strong with that better have comment, Kraav. ;) 

    We've discussed it lightly in threads like Dire Lord Lineage, Expectations, and Speculation, but it's very likely Dire Lords will have no feign death as that's a key ability of the monk. I think the best chance we have at getting it, which is something I'm indifferent to personally, is at a very high level and very high recast (cooldown). I would to go as far as say level 40 (if cap is 50) and 2-5 minutes, so we don't steal the limelight from another class. That said, if the Dire Lord's key ability is something along the lines of Harm Touch, I don't expect any other class to come close to having such an ability.

     

    What post from the dev's said its very likely DL's will not get FD ?


    This post was edited by Krakon at January 22, 2018 10:07 AM PST
    • 52 posts
    January 22, 2018 10:14 AM PST

    Never made that claim, sorry if it appeared that way, Krakon. What myself and some others are thinking is that if each class is highlighting a key ability, something that defines the class, that it won't be shared to others. There is the case that perhaps the Dread Lord could get it at a very high level with a high cooldown (reuse).

    This is getting a little away from the primary subject, but I know over the years I find it a little frustrating when class defining abilities, or help define a role for a class such as FDing on pull, are finally dished out at  or near max level. In other words, why play a class for hundreds of hours to finally unlock something that helps define it? If Dread Lords did feign death, using a level 1-50 example, I'd prefer we go something around 30 than having it being held up in front of us on a string like a carrot at level 50. If it's at 30, again as an example, make it some ungodly cooldown or cost and have us seek out via a quest to learn how to cast it more efficiently.

    • 49 posts
    January 22, 2018 10:56 AM PST

    Pretty sure DL's "thing" will be a mechanic very closely resembling Dreadful Contenance in VG. They will build it up during a fight, and will likely be able to unleash it at some point to be similar to Harm Touch.

    SKs in EQ1 only got FD because they were Necro hybrids. We have moved past the idea of hybrids, so I'd be very surprised if DLs get FD.

    • 21 posts
    January 22, 2018 12:54 PM PST

    Faelor said:

    Never made that claim, sorry if it appeared that way, Krakon. What myself and some others are thinking is that if each class is highlighting a key ability, something that defines the class, that it won't be shared to others. There is the case that perhaps the Dread Lord could get it at a very high level with a high cooldown (reuse).

    This is getting a little away from the primary subject, but I know over the years I find it a little frustrating when class defining abilities, or help define a role for a class such as FDing on pull, are finally dished out at  or near max level. In other words, why play a class for hundreds of hours to finally unlock something that helps define it? If Dread Lords did feign death, using a level 1-50 example, I'd prefer we go something around 30 than having it being held up in front of us on a string like a carrot at level 50. If it's at 30, again as an example, make it some ungodly cooldown or cost and have us seek out via a quest to learn how to cast it more efficiently.

    Well from my understanding, the people making the game 'The Dev's' have the final say over who gets what, what class has this or that, and so far as I know, the Dev's have not said yea or nay on the FD issue.  So thanks for the **Opinion** of what you think DL should and should not have, but i'll wait for the devs final word.

    • 49 posts
    January 22, 2018 3:08 PM PST

    Krakon said:

    Faelor said:

    Never made that claim, sorry if it appeared that way, Krakon. What myself and some others are thinking is that if each class is highlighting a key ability, something that defines the class, that it won't be shared to others. There is the case that perhaps the Dread Lord could get it at a very high level with a high cooldown (reuse).

    This is getting a little away from the primary subject, but I know over the years I find it a little frustrating when class defining abilities, or help define a role for a class such as FDing on pull, are finally dished out at  or near max level. In other words, why play a class for hundreds of hours to finally unlock something that helps define it? If Dread Lords did feign death, using a level 1-50 example, I'd prefer we go something around 30 than having it being held up in front of us on a string like a carrot at level 50. If it's at 30, again as an example, make it some ungodly cooldown or cost and have us seek out via a quest to learn how to cast it more efficiently.

    Well from my understanding, the people making the game 'The Dev's' have the final say over who gets what, what class has this or that, and so far as I know, the Dev's have not said yea or nay on the FD issue.  So thanks for the **Opinion** of what you think DL should and should not have, but i'll wait for the devs final word.

    LOL, then why even discuss anything?

    Folks who have played end game SKs and DKs in EQ1 and VG probably have a pretty good idea of what to expect from DLs. 

    I would be willing to bet any amount of money anyone is willing to wager that DLs won't be getting FD.

    • 21 posts
    January 22, 2018 4:12 PM PST

    nscheffel said:

    Krakon said:

    Faelor said:

    Never made that claim, sorry if it appeared that way, Krakon. What myself and some others are thinking is that if each class is highlighting a key ability, something that defines the class, that it won't be shared to others. There is the case that perhaps the Dread Lord could get it at a very high level with a high cooldown (reuse).

    This is getting a little away from the primary subject, but I know over the years I find it a little frustrating when class defining abilities, or help define a role for a class such as FDing on pull, are finally dished out at  or near max level. In other words, why play a class for hundreds of hours to finally unlock something that helps define it? If Dread Lords did feign death, using a level 1-50 example, I'd prefer we go something around 30 than having it being held up in front of us on a string like a carrot at level 50. If it's at 30, again as an example, make it some ungodly cooldown or cost and have us seek out via a quest to learn how to cast it more efficiently.

    Well from my understanding, the people making the game 'The Dev's' have the final say over who gets what, what class has this or that, and so far as I know, the Dev's have not said yea or nay on the FD issue.  So thanks for the **Opinion** of what you think DL should and should not have, but i'll wait for the devs final word.

    LOL, then why even discuss anything?

    Folks who have played end game SKs and DKs in EQ1 and VG probably have a pretty good idea of what to expect from DLs. 

    I would be willing to bet any amount of money anyone is willing to wager that DLs won't be getting FD.

     

     There is a big difference between geniune discussion and acting as if something is a foregone conclusion.

    • 52 posts
    January 22, 2018 4:58 PM PST

    I don't think anyone here is stating it's concrete. Then again, some of us have been posting on the FD matter since early 2014 and may just be done with the matter. 

    As you said Krakon, in the end it's up to Visionary Realms. :)

    • 21 posts
    January 22, 2018 6:34 PM PST

    Faelor said:

    I don't think anyone here is stating it's concrete. Then again, some of us have been posting on the FD matter since early 2014 and may just be done with the matter. 

    As you said Krakon, in the end it's up to Visionary Realms. :)

    Indeed, VR is the authority for it, the ONLY authority.

    • 49 posts
    January 23, 2018 11:42 AM PST

    Krakon said:

    Faelor said:

    I don't think anyone here is stating it's concrete. Then again, some of us have been posting on the FD matter since early 2014 and may just be done with the matter. 

    As you said Krakon, in the end it's up to Visionary Realms. :)

    Indeed, VR is the authority for it, the ONLY authority.

    Then again, why are you even bothering to discuss it with us if our thoughts mean nothing?

    Or was the sole purpose of your contributions to the topic to state the obvious: "We don't know for sure yet"?


    This post was edited by nscheffel at January 23, 2018 11:44 AM PST