Kalok said:oneADseven said:I'm not really sure what is being debated here ... but I will say this: Those who get to level cap first will have obvious advantages. They will have access to more content, more resources, but with less competition in that tier than you will ever see at any other point in the game. I'm sure there will be things to do at all stages of the game but it definitely can't "hurt" to be higher level, right? Is it easier to collect a full set of cold acclimation gear at level 25, or level 50? Is it easier to pay your way through max crafting as a level 25, or 50? Again, I understand there will be meaningful things to do throughout the entire game ... that's great ... but max level players will always have an edge when it comes to "vertical progression."
It's quite likely that they will also have an edge when it comes to horizontal progression due to their boost in vertical metrics. I am the kind of player that wants to make the most of my time and I am very hard pressed to believe that doing anything other than leveling will be the most efficient use of my time. I am sure there will be spells or quests that I will want to grab/complete along the way ... you know, two birds with one stone. But anything I miss, I can always come back and grab later, right? Until I see how the Rites of Passage works I will remain convinced that focusing on leveling will be the best use of my time. Progeny is a thing too ... an entire feature gated behind getting to max level.
I guess my point is this ... there will be things that can ONLY be done as a max level player. Will there be anything that can only be done as a level 10, 20, or 30? Even if there is, couldn't players mentor down and go through that content as a level appropriate character, while still enjoying the benefits of being a max level player as soon as they are done?
I know they won't, but it wouldn't break my heart if they did something to block "burning through the content as fast as possible to get to the max level" simply because that's not the intent of this game according to what they have stated.
It's also not their intent to prevent people from "burning through the content as fast as possible to get to the max level." It's my understanding that players can play how they want.
oneADseven said:... Either way, players would be able to mentor down and kill a level 30 mob as a level 37 or whatever level is the highest that doesn't force the mob to con grey.
The real question is: Will you be able to set your level to any prior level, at any time (out of combat) or will you be forced to require someone lower than you, and be grouped, to adjust your level to only their level?
Kind of a big deal on the mechanic side.
The latter will make things more difficult when it comes to farming lower level content, but only temporarily. Eventually, guilds will have plenty of alts on their different accounts that can be logged in for the sole purpose of being mentored. Either way, we don't even know if this will be required because they haven't made a decision on whether or not TLC will exist. My understanding is that they don't like artificial systems that will prevent players from feeling like the world is theirs. That includes using no-trade or bind-on-equip ... it's a solution, but one that will probably only be used sparingly.
Brad mentioned a couple years ago that they have ideas on how to handle this exact issue but they won't be revealed until beta. The reason why? Because that's when players will actually be able to test them out, respond with feedback, etc. This is one of those topics where theorycrafting can just lead to unneccessary drama so maybe it's best if we avoid the TLC discussion until we hear what VR's plan is.
It's also not their intent to prevent people from "burning through the content as fast as possible to get to the max level." It's my understanding that players can play how they want.
I agree and I "hope" the game mechanics rewards all kinds of play styles.
I could play like this;
I could decide to fish my first 3 weeks into the gameworld. I would naturaly gravitate to progressively more dangerous fishing areas. I am doing this is because I want to see what I will gain from the perception system, i.e. fishing, cooking. Other skills that could be gained from the perception could be "Harpooning" from stabbing at sharks and jelly fish all day. Maybe I get a damage and accuracy bonus with spears after a while, and/or stumble upon a way to make a nice pioson from jelly fish.
Now the next 3 weeks I spend my time mining and head out to trackdown those resources. I am still leveling at a slow to moderate pace because my focus is on gained experiences from the perception system and exploring the world. From my adventures I learned how to make a nice spear.
Now 3 weeks later I head into nice dungeon. I run into a player of the same level, but they focused XP only and level up in 2 weeks, where as it took me 6 weeks.
Which character is likely to be more powerful? No way to know right now, but I hope the preception system is atleast this good.
Base on the twitch steams information, I bet a nonlinear path to adventuring will be more enjoyable and create more robust characters.
philo said:Wandidar said:Simple question: How many days PLAYED would you like the average player to take in order to reach max in Pantheon - and why?
My answer - 50 days played... maybe even 55 or 60.
I don't think that is anywhere near long enough for the average gamer. You have the fastest levelers hitting max in around 2 weeks at that rate. Not even close to long enough.
I agree no where long enough. Personally I would think an average player playing 2 to 3 hours a day to get max level should be somewhere 4 to 6 months. This is considering in deaths, short gaming sessions and so forth.
The answer is, as many as you want it to take. Either crawl like a snail and enjoy every single thing there is to offer on the way to max level, race there and work backwards, or something in between, however you see fit to spend your time is your personal choice, what someone else does and how fast they play should be no concern of anyone else :)
Kilsin said:The answer is, as many as you want it to take. Either crawl like a snail and enjoy every single thing there is to offer on the way to max level, race there and work backwards, or something in between, however you see fit to spend your time is your personal choice, what someone else does and how fast they play should be no concern of anyone else :)
Do you even know MMO players?! lol... ;-)
Arlo said:Kittik said:But if we are talking players like you and I, who will get to play an hour a day, maybe more if we give our wives the correct dosage
ROFL! :-) I don't expect many of you to appreciate the subtle science and exact art that is (wife sleeping) potion-making
It's true. Wife drinking red wine every night is good for my heart.
oneADseven said:Kalok said:oneADseven said:I'm not really sure what is being debated here ... but I will say this: Those who get to level cap first will have obvious advantages. They will have access to more content, more resources, but with less competition in that tier than you will ever see at any other point in the game. I'm sure there will be things to do at all stages of the game but it definitely can't "hurt" to be higher level, right? Is it easier to collect a full set of cold acclimation gear at level 25, or level 50? Is it easier to pay your way through max crafting as a level 25, or 50? Again, I understand there will be meaningful things to do throughout the entire game ... that's great ... but max level players will always have an edge when it comes to "vertical progression."
It's quite likely that they will also have an edge when it comes to horizontal progression due to their boost in vertical metrics. I am the kind of player that wants to make the most of my time and I am very hard pressed to believe that doing anything other than leveling will be the most efficient use of my time. I am sure there will be spells or quests that I will want to grab/complete along the way ... you know, two birds with one stone. But anything I miss, I can always come back and grab later, right? Until I see how the Rites of Passage works I will remain convinced that focusing on leveling will be the best use of my time. Progeny is a thing too ... an entire feature gated behind getting to max level.
I guess my point is this ... there will be things that can ONLY be done as a max level player. Will there be anything that can only be done as a level 10, 20, or 30? Even if there is, couldn't players mentor down and go through that content as a level appropriate character, while still enjoying the benefits of being a max level player as soon as they are done?
I know they won't, but it wouldn't break my heart if they did something to block "burning through the content as fast as possible to get to the max level" simply because that's not the intent of this game according to what they have stated.
It's also not their intent to prevent people from "burning through the content as fast as possible to get to the max level." It's my understanding that players can play how they want.
I never said that they were going to intentionally put things in to slow people down. That doesn't mean that the over-all game design won't slow people down.
Kalok said:oneADseven said:Kalok said:oneADseven said:I'm not really sure what is being debated here ... but I will say this: Those who get to level cap first will have obvious advantages. They will have access to more content, more resources, but with less competition in that tier than you will ever see at any other point in the game. I'm sure there will be things to do at all stages of the game but it definitely can't "hurt" to be higher level, right? Is it easier to collect a full set of cold acclimation gear at level 25, or level 50? Is it easier to pay your way through max crafting as a level 25, or 50? Again, I understand there will be meaningful things to do throughout the entire game ... that's great ... but max level players will always have an edge when it comes to "vertical progression."
It's quite likely that they will also have an edge when it comes to horizontal progression due to their boost in vertical metrics. I am the kind of player that wants to make the most of my time and I am very hard pressed to believe that doing anything other than leveling will be the most efficient use of my time. I am sure there will be spells or quests that I will want to grab/complete along the way ... you know, two birds with one stone. But anything I miss, I can always come back and grab later, right? Until I see how the Rites of Passage works I will remain convinced that focusing on leveling will be the best use of my time. Progeny is a thing too ... an entire feature gated behind getting to max level.
I guess my point is this ... there will be things that can ONLY be done as a max level player. Will there be anything that can only be done as a level 10, 20, or 30? Even if there is, couldn't players mentor down and go through that content as a level appropriate character, while still enjoying the benefits of being a max level player as soon as they are done?
I know they won't, but it wouldn't break my heart if they did something to block "burning through the content as fast as possible to get to the max level" simply because that's not the intent of this game according to what they have stated.
It's also not their intent to prevent people from "burning through the content as fast as possible to get to the max level." It's my understanding that players can play how they want.
I never said that they were going to intentionally put things in to slow people down. That doesn't mean that the over-all game design won't slow people down.
And that's what makes it so exciting to push through it. When content is designed to slow you down, it feels like an accomplishment when you can navigate through it with maximum efficiency. The more difficult the grind, the more satisfying it feels to conquer it.
oneADseven said:Kalok said:oneADseven said:Kalok said:oneADseven said:I'm not really sure what is being debated here ... but I will say this: Those who get to level cap first will have obvious advantages. They will have access to more content, more resources, but with less competition in that tier than you will ever see at any other point in the game. I'm sure there will be things to do at all stages of the game but it definitely can't "hurt" to be higher level, right? Is it easier to collect a full set of cold acclimation gear at level 25, or level 50? Is it easier to pay your way through max crafting as a level 25, or 50? Again, I understand there will be meaningful things to do throughout the entire game ... that's great ... but max level players will always have an edge when it comes to "vertical progression."
It's quite likely that they will also have an edge when it comes to horizontal progression due to their boost in vertical metrics. I am the kind of player that wants to make the most of my time and I am very hard pressed to believe that doing anything other than leveling will be the most efficient use of my time. I am sure there will be spells or quests that I will want to grab/complete along the way ... you know, two birds with one stone. But anything I miss, I can always come back and grab later, right? Until I see how the Rites of Passage works I will remain convinced that focusing on leveling will be the best use of my time. Progeny is a thing too ... an entire feature gated behind getting to max level.
I guess my point is this ... there will be things that can ONLY be done as a max level player. Will there be anything that can only be done as a level 10, 20, or 30? Even if there is, couldn't players mentor down and go through that content as a level appropriate character, while still enjoying the benefits of being a max level player as soon as they are done?
I know they won't, but it wouldn't break my heart if they did something to block "burning through the content as fast as possible to get to the max level" simply because that's not the intent of this game according to what they have stated.
It's also not their intent to prevent people from "burning through the content as fast as possible to get to the max level." It's my understanding that players can play how they want.
I never said that they were going to intentionally put things in to slow people down. That doesn't mean that the over-all game design won't slow people down.
And that's what makes it so exciting to push through it. When content is designed to slow you down, it feels like an accomplishment when you can navigate through it with maximum efficiency. The more difficult the grind, the more satisfying it feels to conquer it.
And the louder the whine when the "power-level junkies" can't level up as fast as they're used to. And THAT is our concern. That VR will nerf content and mechanics just like EQ, EQ2, and Vanmguard did, despite all three saying that they would never do that. We DO NOT want another game like all of the rest that you can power-level up in a week and holds your hand through everything. We want the "old school" mechanics where you have to WORK for EVERYTHING; nothing is handed to you.
If you want a game where you can max-level in a week, go back to WoW and leave this game for those of us that enjoy the game for the game's sake, not something to be "conquered" for the "phat lewtz".
I've never seen "power-level junkies" whine about not being able to level up fast. They will always be able to level up fast relative to the general population. It's typically your average joe/jane casuals complaining about that kinda thing because it takes them that much longer to level.
Besides, you've already essentially stated that you have full confidence in their design and direction because of the producer behind it, so why now are you suddenly worried about "whiners" ruining the progression rate? Which is it?
I hope the leveling is slow enough to appreciate well designed dungeons. VT in Vanguard was one of my favorite low(ish) level dungeon ever. The problem was that it was so in depth that it was hard to see it all because of out-leveling it. I had to refuse all other xp stuff during that time just to see the end. It was well worth it, but I would like the leveling curve to be slow enough to experience all the level appropriate dungeons.
Kalok said:oneADseven said:Kalok said:oneADseven said:Kalok said:oneADseven said:I'm not really sure what is being debated here ... but I will say this: Those who get to level cap first will have obvious advantages. They will have access to more content, more resources, but with less competition in that tier than you will ever see at any other point in the game. I'm sure there will be things to do at all stages of the game but it definitely can't "hurt" to be higher level, right? Is it easier to collect a full set of cold acclimation gear at level 25, or level 50? Is it easier to pay your way through max crafting as a level 25, or 50? Again, I understand there will be meaningful things to do throughout the entire game ... that's great ... but max level players will always have an edge when it comes to "vertical progression."
It's quite likely that they will also have an edge when it comes to horizontal progression due to their boost in vertical metrics. I am the kind of player that wants to make the most of my time and I am very hard pressed to believe that doing anything other than leveling will be the most efficient use of my time. I am sure there will be spells or quests that I will want to grab/complete along the way ... you know, two birds with one stone. But anything I miss, I can always come back and grab later, right? Until I see how the Rites of Passage works I will remain convinced that focusing on leveling will be the best use of my time. Progeny is a thing too ... an entire feature gated behind getting to max level.
I guess my point is this ... there will be things that can ONLY be done as a max level player. Will there be anything that can only be done as a level 10, 20, or 30? Even if there is, couldn't players mentor down and go through that content as a level appropriate character, while still enjoying the benefits of being a max level player as soon as they are done?
I know they won't, but it wouldn't break my heart if they did something to block "burning through the content as fast as possible to get to the max level" simply because that's not the intent of this game according to what they have stated.
It's also not their intent to prevent people from "burning through the content as fast as possible to get to the max level." It's my understanding that players can play how they want.
I never said that they were going to intentionally put things in to slow people down. That doesn't mean that the over-all game design won't slow people down.
And that's what makes it so exciting to push through it. When content is designed to slow you down, it feels like an accomplishment when you can navigate through it with maximum efficiency. The more difficult the grind, the more satisfying it feels to conquer it.
And the louder the whine when the "power-level junkies" can't level up as fast as they're used to. And THAT is our concern. That VR will nerf content and mechanics just like EQ, EQ2, and Vanmguard did, despite all three saying that they would never do that. We DO NOT want another game like all of the rest that you can power-level up in a week and holds your hand through everything. We want the "old school" mechanics where you have to WORK for EVERYTHING; nothing is handed to you.
If you want a game where you can max-level in a week, go back to WoW and leave this game for those of us that enjoy the game for the game's sake, not something to be "conquered" for the "phat lewtz".
Did you even read what I said? I don't want a game where I can achieve max level in a week. I don't want hand holding. I specifically said "The more difficult the grind, the more satisfying it feels to conquer it." One of the catch phrases for this game is "A Challenge Reborn." I assure you I have done my homework for this game and that it's exactly what I am looking for. You can play the game for whatever the hell reason you want ... personally, I look forward to conquering the most difficult challenges available, and earning the phat lewtz in the process ... WITH FRIENDS. That's why I am here. I don't consider WoW a part of my back-story ... I played it for the PVP, but overall that game only represents a small fraction of the time I have invested into the MMO genre. Your tendency to tell people they don't belong here is almost always unsubstantiated and serves no purpose other than to divide the community into "us" and "them" ... you should really read up on what the true target audience for this game is. The more you try to drive people away, the more obvious it becomes just how out of touch you are with "The Vision."
Kalok said:oneADseven said:Kalok said:oneADseven said:Kalok said:oneADseven said:I guess my point is this ... there will be things that can ONLY be done as a max level player. Will there be anything that can only be done as a level 10, 20, or 30? Even if there is, couldn't players mentor down and go through that content as a level appropriate character, while still enjoying the benefits of being a max level player as soon as they are done?
I know they won't, but it wouldn't break my heart if they did something to block "burning through the content as fast as possible to get to the max level" simply because that's not the intent of this game according to what they have stated.
It's also not their intent to prevent people from "burning through the content as fast as possible to get to the max level." It's my understanding that players can play how they want.
I never said that they were going to intentionally put things in to slow people down. That doesn't mean that the over-all game design won't slow people down.
The more difficult the grind, the more satisfying it feels to conquer it.
We want the "old school" mechanics where you have to WORK for EVERYTHING; nothing is handed to you.
I think it's safe to say that we all agree on wanting a system where levelling is actually worked towards, but as AD pointed out, "The more difficult the grind, the more satisfying it feels to conquer it." Regardless of whether or not there's interesting content at lower levels, there will be a rush of players racing to the top as soon as the first server goes live. Normally the longer this rush takes, the more players will complain about the game being too difficult, but I think the philosophy of the game, "Challenge Reborn", that's being clearly emphasized as well as the cost of the game and the trial available before purchase will all work towards mitigating the amount of players that play the game only to come to believe that it's too hard.
Thus, I don't think many nerfs will be put in within the first few patches after release simply because some players find the content too difficult. The nerfs introduced in past games were introduced largely due to expansions that increased the overall content. Nerfs were introduced to get players to the higher levels where "things actually happen" more quickly; to rebalance the amount of time it should take to reach max level; to rebalance classes after new ones are released without any prior plans for the class. These kinds of nerfs can be prevented with content placed across the game, at levels 10, 20, 30 etc., and by planning ahead for expansions, which I personally have faith in VR doing. VR often mentions ideas they have for future expansions, and we're already aware of the next major class to be introduced, so I trust VR is making their current game with these in mind as well.
As for content placed throughout the game: VR mentioned at some point having raid-like encounters in mid-levels atop those in the later levels to offer that kind of content across the game. Whether or not that's actually done and done well may honestly be what determines the path this game goes down with future expansions; it all comes back to AD's initial question. My idea at a solution would be to make the content rewarding enough to be worth covering for a level or two, but not for as many as ten, as was my issue with EQ, in which players would stay in the same few areas for long periods of time because they were the only efficient options. More specifically I want quests to always be more rewarding than it would be to grind for the same amount of time it'd take to complete it, because if they aren't, people would simply ignore them and choose to grind.
Finally I'd like to point out the biggest mechanism in place to block rushing to max level, and that's the fact that you can't really get anywhere without a party. It won't be a few players making it to the top and reaping rewards while others are still in the early levels, but rather "tiers" of players based on how many hours they put in compared to others. Not to mention that some classes are more dependent on grouping than others, as well as the eventual need to focus on trade skills, etc.
Typing about this makes me look forward to the game even more :) As for how long it should take to reach max, I'd prefer ~500 hours of not-completely-inefficient gameplay ;)
Nevron said:I've never seen "power-level junkies" whine about not being able to level up fast. They will always be able to level up fast relative to the general population. It's typically your average joe/jane casuals complaining about that kinda thing because it takes them that much longer to level.
Besides, you've already essentially stated that you have full confidence in their design and direction because of the producer behind it, so why now are you suddenly worried about "whiners" ruining the progression rate? Which is it?
I had full confidence in EQ and Vanguard too. They caved later, not right away.
oneADseven said:Kalok said:oneADseven said:Kalok said:oneADseven said:Kalok said:oneADseven said:I'm not really sure what is being debated here ... but I will say this: Those who get to level cap first will have obvious advantages. They will have access to more content, more resources, but with less competition in that tier than you will ever see at any other point in the game. I'm sure there will be things to do at all stages of the game but it definitely can't "hurt" to be higher level, right? Is it easier to collect a full set of cold acclimation gear at level 25, or level 50? Is it easier to pay your way through max crafting as a level 25, or 50? Again, I understand there will be meaningful things to do throughout the entire game ... that's great ... but max level players will always have an edge when it comes to "vertical progression."
It's quite likely that they will also have an edge when it comes to horizontal progression due to their boost in vertical metrics. I am the kind of player that wants to make the most of my time and I am very hard pressed to believe that doing anything other than leveling will be the most efficient use of my time. I am sure there will be spells or quests that I will want to grab/complete along the way ... you know, two birds with one stone. But anything I miss, I can always come back and grab later, right? Until I see how the Rites of Passage works I will remain convinced that focusing on leveling will be the best use of my time. Progeny is a thing too ... an entire feature gated behind getting to max level.
I guess my point is this ... there will be things that can ONLY be done as a max level player. Will there be anything that can only be done as a level 10, 20, or 30? Even if there is, couldn't players mentor down and go through that content as a level appropriate character, while still enjoying the benefits of being a max level player as soon as they are done?
I know they won't, but it wouldn't break my heart if they did something to block "burning through the content as fast as possible to get to the max level" simply because that's not the intent of this game according to what they have stated.
It's also not their intent to prevent people from "burning through the content as fast as possible to get to the max level." It's my understanding that players can play how they want.
I never said that they were going to intentionally put things in to slow people down. That doesn't mean that the over-all game design won't slow people down.
And that's what makes it so exciting to push through it. When content is designed to slow you down, it feels like an accomplishment when you can navigate through it with maximum efficiency. The more difficult the grind, the more satisfying it feels to conquer it.
And the louder the whine when the "power-level junkies" can't level up as fast as they're used to. And THAT is our concern. That VR will nerf content and mechanics just like EQ, EQ2, and Vanmguard did, despite all three saying that they would never do that. We DO NOT want another game like all of the rest that you can power-level up in a week and holds your hand through everything. We want the "old school" mechanics where you have to WORK for EVERYTHING; nothing is handed to you.
If you want a game where you can max-level in a week, go back to WoW and leave this game for those of us that enjoy the game for the game's sake, not something to be "conquered" for the "phat lewtz".
Did you even read what I said? I don't want a game where I can achieve max level in a week. I don't want hand holding. I specifically said "The more difficult the grind, the more satisfying it feels to conquer it." One of the catch phrases for this game is "A Challenge Reborn." I assure you I have done my homework for this game and that it's exactly what I am looking for. You can play the game for whatever the hell reason you want ... personally, I look forward to conquering the most difficult challenges available, and earning the phat lewtz in the process ... WITH FRIENDS. That's why I am here. I don't consider WoW a part of my back-story ... I played it for the PVP, but overall that game only represents a small fraction of the time I have invested into the MMO genre. Your tendency to tell people they don't belong here is almost always unsubstantiated and serves no purpose other than to divide the community into "us" and "them" ... you should really read up on what the true target audience for this game is. The more you try to drive people away, the more obvious it becomes just how out of touch you are with "The Vision."
And yet you called it "exciting" to burn through content as fast as you can. Which is it?
Kalok said:oneADseven said:Kalok said:oneADseven said:Kalok said:oneADseven said:Kalok said:oneADseven said:I'm not really sure what is being debated here ... but I will say this: Those who get to level cap first will have obvious advantages. They will have access to more content, more resources, but with less competition in that tier than you will ever see at any other point in the game. I'm sure there will be things to do at all stages of the game but it definitely can't "hurt" to be higher level, right? Is it easier to collect a full set of cold acclimation gear at level 25, or level 50? Is it easier to pay your way through max crafting as a level 25, or 50? Again, I understand there will be meaningful things to do throughout the entire game ... that's great ... but max level players will always have an edge when it comes to "vertical progression."
It's quite likely that they will also have an edge when it comes to horizontal progression due to their boost in vertical metrics. I am the kind of player that wants to make the most of my time and I am very hard pressed to believe that doing anything other than leveling will be the most efficient use of my time. I am sure there will be spells or quests that I will want to grab/complete along the way ... you know, two birds with one stone. But anything I miss, I can always come back and grab later, right? Until I see how the Rites of Passage works I will remain convinced that focusing on leveling will be the best use of my time. Progeny is a thing too ... an entire feature gated behind getting to max level.
I guess my point is this ... there will be things that can ONLY be done as a max level player. Will there be anything that can only be done as a level 10, 20, or 30? Even if there is, couldn't players mentor down and go through that content as a level appropriate character, while still enjoying the benefits of being a max level player as soon as they are done?
I know they won't, but it wouldn't break my heart if they did something to block "burning through the content as fast as possible to get to the max level" simply because that's not the intent of this game according to what they have stated.
It's also not their intent to prevent people from "burning through the content as fast as possible to get to the max level." It's my understanding that players can play how they want.
I never said that they were going to intentionally put things in to slow people down. That doesn't mean that the over-all game design won't slow people down.
And that's what makes it so exciting to push through it. When content is designed to slow you down, it feels like an accomplishment when you can navigate through it with maximum efficiency. The more difficult the grind, the more satisfying it feels to conquer it.
And the louder the whine when the "power-level junkies" can't level up as fast as they're used to. And THAT is our concern. That VR will nerf content and mechanics just like EQ, EQ2, and Vanmguard did, despite all three saying that they would never do that. We DO NOT want another game like all of the rest that you can power-level up in a week and holds your hand through everything. We want the "old school" mechanics where you have to WORK for EVERYTHING; nothing is handed to you.
If you want a game where you can max-level in a week, go back to WoW and leave this game for those of us that enjoy the game for the game's sake, not something to be "conquered" for the "phat lewtz".
Did you even read what I said? I don't want a game where I can achieve max level in a week. I don't want hand holding. I specifically said "The more difficult the grind, the more satisfying it feels to conquer it." One of the catch phrases for this game is "A Challenge Reborn." I assure you I have done my homework for this game and that it's exactly what I am looking for. You can play the game for whatever the hell reason you want ... personally, I look forward to conquering the most difficult challenges available, and earning the phat lewtz in the process ... WITH FRIENDS. That's why I am here. I don't consider WoW a part of my back-story ... I played it for the PVP, but overall that game only represents a small fraction of the time I have invested into the MMO genre. Your tendency to tell people they don't belong here is almost always unsubstantiated and serves no purpose other than to divide the community into "us" and "them" ... you should really read up on what the true target audience for this game is. The more you try to drive people away, the more obvious it becomes just how out of touch you are with "The Vision."
And yet you called it "exciting" to burn through content as fast as you can. Which is it?
I said it's exciting to overcome a challenge. If they design the game to slow us down, I will find satisfaction in being able to overcome that and push the pace with how fast I level. Again, "The more difficult the grind, the more satisfying it feels to conquer it." I want an impossibly difficult grind. I want the progression curve to be so massive that very few people ever see the end of it. All of my posts on this forum have been very consistent in that regard. I don't want hand outs. I want to earn every bit of XP, every ability, every faction gain, every piece of gear. I want accomplishments to actually mean something. I have "hardcore" hard coded into my DNA man ... when you insinuate that I want instant gratification or that I should go back to WoW, it's insulting.
Why must some people get so upset when other groups want to spend more time and effort to go faster then the first group?
It's not a PvP-based game. Maybe we can all get along. Some of us will blow off work for a few weeks to be passionate about our hobby. Others will have a life. It's all good.
Beefcake said:Why must some people get so upset when other groups want to spend more time and effort to go faster then the first group?
It's not a PvP-based game. Maybe we can all get along. Some of us will blow off work for a few weeks to be passionate about our hobby. Others will have a life. It's all good.
My beef isn't that some people want to burn through the content as fast as they possibly can. My beef is that they expect for the game to be made in such a manner to facilitate that. The "I want to be max level in a week." people. This thinking has all but ruined the genre for the rest of us that want a fun challenging game. EQ was ruined when PoP and the later expansions came out. EQ2 was ruined after the first expansion came out. Vanguard was ruined as soon as SoE fully took over. All three of these games basically became "copies" of WoW in formulation in order to facilitate the ease of levelling quicklly.
All three of these games were "dumbed down" to make them more compatible with the sort of players that gravitated to WoW for its ease of levelling. We don't want, yet another, WoW competitor/clone. We want something different. People are passionate about this. That's why there is such "animosity" towards the people wanting it to be this and whining about not wanting it to take a long time to level up. There are ALREADY lots of games out there for them and their play style. There are virtually none out there for us. We don't want them to ruin "our" game.
Ok so here's my way overextended analogy...
This argument sounds to me like two groups of people fighting over a 5k trail. Some slower folks will say "I don't like that people run on this trail, why don't they pay attention to the foliage, flowers, and birds? They're missing the whole point of nature!" Both the runners and walkers like the trail, but they use it in different ways. People who race through don't necessarily want the trail to be shortened from 5k to 1k. They want to challenge themselves and maybe they even want the trail extended to 20k.
If the trails you once loved were all shortened to 1k, it may or may not be because the runners wanted it to happen. You saw some of the runners complaining publicly and you know that a whole lot of annoying people thought the "easy and new" 1k trail was more accessible, but that shouldn't lead you to condemn running. The blame lies with the person who decided to block off 4k worth of fun.
Please understand that going quickly is NOT always driven by a desire to be finished.
