I love quests that you have to seek out to accept, and I detest having 15 - 20 quests at one time. It makes me feel so overwhelmed and conflicted as to which way to go. I don't mind quests that make you go out and kill things, but I'd rather it be kill them and then bring back X as proof. I personally enjoyed the few repeatables in EQ and EQOA, where you could hand in goblin beads for a little extra exp. I like quests that make you travel really freaking far out in the middle of no where, too, where you might have to wait for a mob to show up until night time. :)
I like class and race related quests best. Something that feels personal. Something that progresses.
Next I guess are faction quests. Something that can become personal as you pick a 'side' (often).
As for the usual "kill that" "deliver this" quests I'm not so keen. Those can simply be replaced with billboards and inter-settlement knowledge that certain NPCs are always after X (like the guards of Humanton will always pay for Orc ears, or the Smiths of Crafton will always want old goblin armor).
A player seeing another player with an awesome sword and starting out on his or her own quest to find out where it came from and then to go get it. That's the best kind of quest. A player who needs to get to some scary unknown area of the game to buy a spell that isn't sold anywhere else who teams up with group of people all of the same class trying to do the exact same thing, is a great quest. Etc, etc. The best quests are created organically by the game play, where playing the game is the quest.
To me, a good quest has a good story line, keeps me entertained, gives me "interesting" things to do, and doesn't feel like a job. Don't confuse "doesn't feel like a job" with "doesn't feel like work" because they're not the same things. You should still have to work at quests...
I liked progressive quest rewards like the eq1 epic 1/1.5/2 or to be more simple i liked the monk headband and sash questlines. I like a quest that i know has more to it. I want a quest to keep going and transition into other questlines infinitly. Even if its just a hint at the end that someone else has something more to say. There should be a mix of collection quest elements, helping people elements, faction elements, and crafting elements. The quest should also be progressive in scope.
Help this guy > get info > find item > discover something > fight something > loot something > faction for something > craft something > turn in for first part of reward > progress into next phase of questline > repeat
Something like that.
I think Velious in EQ1 had a great questline system. They had exploration, faction, fighting(exp), looting, crafting, helping. They even had dynamic content available only once a questline was near completion. Did people level off of the exp reward? Nope. Infact most of the time you needed to be max level to do the quests to completion. EXP should never be given from the reward giver as a reward as stated before.
Intellectual challenge. I like the epic style EQ quests where you have to search out and figure out massive quest lines. I also enjoy actual challenge where you have to get help from guildmates or friends. Anything that makes it a long and challenging process that not every person in the game can complete.
Rewards may make bland quests worthwhile, BUT...
An unforgettable quest always has a great story behind it. Every quest is an opportunity for a gripping short story that the adventurer gets to be a part of. Even better if the story can be advanced or end differently based on player decisions. All it takes is a wee bit of creativity up front to make an impactful lasting memory.
For giggles, let’s together spitball a basic story quest that shouldn’t require additional art or heavy scripting.
Setting: haunted farm maybe? Pretty standard for MMOs
Characters: One distraught farmer wife who just lost her young adult farmer son to unexplained murder. One emotionally distant farmer father.
Quest: travel to nearby haunted forest to solve the murder of their son. Slay some evil beasties > find a friendly ghost (at night!) who tells the story of the father who, in order to increase profit, dabbled in necromancy for extra hands in the fields. Farmer loses control of undead, and son pays price.> Ghost gives riddle to find necro tome the father used in son’s grave. > Find grave, begin spell to return undead to the ground > interrupted by evil beasties including son’s zombie > kill beasties, and either complete spell, or kill zombie-son.
Depending on your choices you can turn in evidence to the father, and agree to keep his story secret, for a reward of: XP, a few coin, a common necro spell, and he becomes a basic low-level magic reagent vendor.
Turn evidence in to mother, expose fathers dark secret, reward: XP, a few coin, she becomes a general goods vendor to you (instead of farmer’s wife), and gives you an emotional token of her son – maybe something if when worn will, on full moons, show the son’s appreciative ghost for an instant on the horizon.
Memorable, yet still familiar right? A few different outcomes to make you wonder what would happen if you did it differently next time too.
If I can come up with this in 10 minutes, there is no reason why all quests shouldn’t make you want to finish if even just to find out how the story ends.
$0.02
Flushing - your name brings back memories. I spent 4 years going to college in Flushing (a neighborhood in Queens, New York City).
Your first post - welcome.
Let's change your quest just a teeny bit to make it less obvious and less of a stereotype. Ma dabbled in necromancy - not an evil woman just a desperate one.
Wow!~ loaded question.
I have read through maybe the first two pages and when I attempted to reply I found myself creating walls of text describing the kind of quest I would design.
So, I thought I would remark on generalities instead:
1. Quests or parts of quests that make me feel smart. By this I mean from remembering something another NPC said years ago (maybe with perception help?) and mentioning it, non-bracketed. or more importantly something blatantly intuitive.
2. Classic logic puzzles or games that everyone can learn through playing the game through the quest.
TL:DR By this I mean like the 3 cannibals and 3 missonaries puzzle crossing a stream in one boat that can only hold 3 people but one has to stay in the boat to row the boat back, and a missionary and cannibal cannot be left alone or the cannibal will eat the missionary (3 dimes/pennies). Or like the logic game where one guard always tells the truth and the other guard always lies and you have to find out which one tells the truth- or lies! to get the answer (maybe scripted question choices that the player can choose form would make this easier- and repeatable if they fail the first time) *fantasy* seperate quest line that opens from the liar (make the liar have a pet cat or something- lol)
3. Hidden Compassion/Sociopath rewards.
TL:DR
Compassion: by this I mean if you barge into an old crones home, coming in from the snow. By intuitively wanting to light the fire opens up a quest or response but this would not work when its not snowing. Or being "friendly" enough to be able to have the guards pet dog/wolf let you pet it, causing the guards to marvel and say something leading to a branch in the questline. Or even if you have been hunting rats or mice and have some carcasses in your bags, and if you come to an area of snakes, by feeding the snakes the carcasses they let you go or are slightly more disposed to you. Even if not a bard, learning to play a tune on a cheap tin whistle to allow you to pass through an area with angry apes because "music hath charms to soothe the savage beast"
Sociopath: by this I mean beating the prisoner to death with your bare hands instead of stopping to get information- leading to something else.(the skyrim black hand quest line was really good at making you make "grey" choices instead of obviously good/bad choices). Telling the girl/guy that their boyfriend/girlfriend is dead, even though you saved their life and they are in another town working their way back- causing them to kill themselves and you coming back to "console" the remaining party- leading to something else.
- the other bases are covered in this thread- at least as much as I have read so far :)
4. OH- and really nice rewarding crafting quests- so us crafters can feel smug :). Or something that makes the player feel smug, doesnt have to be crafting.
Crafting quests are good.
I have seen three types of crafting quests. One involves acting as an adventurer - go out and kill something. I would prefer not having these; better that a crafter can do the quests by crafting not needing to be an experienced killer or asking for help from those that are. Not that needing to form a group to complete a quest is a *bad* thing.
One is to craft things - perfectly reasonable but it gets a bit humdrum and repetitious. Just more of what the crafter does regularly anyway.
IMO the best involve crafting things and going out and doing something with them. A bridge is broken - people have to go out of their way or even (gasp) wade through water until it is fixed. Can a carpenter make some planks and install them, saving the day?
It's a quest. Not a favor, not an errand. I think quests should be more involved. I hate running from one NPC to another just to talk to them so I'm flagged to go do something else. I feel like a little errand boy and I get so irritated that I'm doing grunt work for these lazy NPCs who wont do it themselves. I more or less like the random drop item that has clues to it. Maybe you're in a dungeon and find a broken horn on a mob. Horn has an encription that says something that leads you to another place in the dungeon or even a different dungeon entirely. I like the items to have the clues and using townfolk NPCs to fill in the gaps with stories and then you eventually work your way through it receiving a nice item at the end. But note that NPCs shouldn't give you the outright answer, they should give you hints and clues as to what to look for.
I also think quested items should in general have more stats or better stats than dropped items, as they should in theory take more time to obtain and even harder to obtain. Sometimes requiring group help or even raid help. I always liked being able to do a good portion of the quest on your own but needing group help for a couple of fights here and there. It made the item seem more important when you had to enlist the help of others.
I was never a fan of tradeskill quests. I hated having to raise tradeskills to complete a quest, unless that reward was for a tradeskill based item. Sure it gives people a reason to tradeskill that otherwise might not, but mostly it just ends up being a huge money sink.
Story. I've played through games I hated to death for good story. People play through these horribly boring things called "visual novels" for good stories. Good stories, especially with excellent character development so you care when tragedy strikes, Make something worth following.
I hate it when games like dark souls intentionally try to take story from the players. I use my imagination plenty on my own time, If I'm using my time to play your game, feel free to give me your whole and uncensored storyline and let me (instead of you) decide where to use my imagination.
Naturally A good quest should feel like a storyline you can choose to follow within the game. The main reward being: more story. Oh and a fun ability or extremely iconic piece of gear for your character so you wanna do it before you realize how awesome the story is.
My favorite quests have some key components:
1. An engaging storyline. This is probably obvious. We all know and hate the infamous "collect 10 bear butts because bears are attacking my farm" quests that just serve as excuses to get you to kill mobs for XP. To an extent, I think they're a necesary evil (it allows me to stomach "grinding", as if I don't have a quest to do it, I really dislike just farming mobs over and over for XP), however I won't enjoy the quest for the quest's sake. A great quest needs compelling storytelling!
2. More than just "kill X mob(s)". I like quests that have me to answer questions, or solve a puzzle, or explore and find relics, or talk to people.
3. Reward matches the time and/or challenge. I include time, as time is a valuable resource and the length of a quest should be taken into consideration when determining rewards. Now for me, "reward" could be anything from gear, cosmetic fun items, XP, or just an extremely satisfying end to a storyline with some excellent cutscenes or somesuch.
If a quest has those three things, then it's a great quest in my book!
I enjoy LONG quest series that reward an item that improves the more you progress through the quest. The Breakdown in communication quest in EQ1 is a good example of this style, although certain steps could have been made more fun. The fact that not everyone is going to get all the way through to the end item makes it unique, but everyone still has a chance to start it and get the base reward. The class epic quests also were great. If they had used this method, people wouldn't have felt like they HAD to complete the whole thing, but would get the item with the effect but less stats, and the stats would improve as they were able to complete more of the quest. I think most people that didn't enjoy those type of quests were just because too many raids were required, so its probably best to make it solable to the base reward, then groupable up to the last reward improvement, which may require a raid.
As some previous posters have mentioned, I too love when logic and puzzles are put into the quest.
Instead of the standard and often embarassing 400 collect 5 rat tail style quests over the course of 40 -60 levels. I would prefer one life quest with 400 parts to it. Each part you learn something about yourself, your class, your race, your place in the world, the world itself. Anything except being someone elses errand boy.
Receiving something pertinent to that segment of the quest line. Could be gold, could be gear, could be abilities, clues or experience to the next piece in the quest.
Think of the Hobbit or Lord of the Rings. The journey is what is epic to me. It got old Bilbo out of his comfort zone.
All quests should have a few of these qualities for success:
The unexpected: Grab our attention. People who quest today do not even read the quest story. Shake us out of zombie questing state and throw a fish at us.
mystery: Make us solve an actual in game puzzle where we have to actually use our brains. Also, some things truly are better left unsolved. Maybe the quest is a dead end, maybe the player doesn't get any loot. Maybe they aren't looking hard enough. Keep people on their toes.
chaining stories/quests that coincide, transverse other quests and storylines in non-linear ways: That quest I did at level 5? Turns out this person I just met at level 10 knows them, and that quest I did for them where I helped ol Grannie Smith carry bags to their carridge? yes..those were dead bodies according to this guy. You get the idea.
comedy: This just isn't done in your every day questing..are writers even putting in any effort today?
scripted AI events: My immersion senses are tingling
choice: would be nice
consequence: that stupid thing you did awards you no points and may God have mercy on your soul.
parable: Teach me the lessons my parents never did
lore: of course
Quality over quantity always. I don't care if you have to triple the exp and rewards per quest due to shortages!
The only good quest is a dead quest.
on a serious note, just in case I have not already replied to this necro thread,
good quest tells a story, the quest should introduce you to the lore of the area, it should have some kind of relation to the zone, faction and lore.
quest should not reward any XP. only money and faction reputation.
bigdogchris said:Having to go somewhere I've never gone before or hunt a mob I've never thought of hunting before.
I want to expand my previous comment a bit.
If a zone or cluster of mobs in the game world is going unused, rather than revamping that zone or mob cluster, maybe add a quest that involves hunting that area.
What makes a good quest. Anticipation- Unexpected- Emotional gain-loss.
A deep detailed storyline that fits the lore.
Im a game of thrones fan so i love shocking surprises.
Dead end quest
Failed quest meaning the enemy wins and will rise in power to meet again at a later date.
Epic shocking storyline-encounters.
Difficult Puzzles a must Mazes would be interesting. I remember Osrs dragonslayer 2 puzzle recreating a map was great took me over a hour to solve. Eso moon phase puzzle was memorable.
Weather- Elements play a big part.
Such as if you do the quest with a blizzard in the area the enemys- path may be harder for the player such as a yeti might appear.
Traps - Closed off paths and monsters the player would not encounter on a sunny day.An alt might have a different encounter - choice that the main did not have. A rogues rope might find a path no other class can take climbing down the rope may find a corpse diary leading to a treasure other classes would have no idea exist. A druid might use vines to get to a area other classes can't.
A player should need to figure things out and not just have a npc saying go here do this like in most games.
My favorite storylines in games- shows.
1 Dragons easiest storylines to write and best people just love dragons.
2 Magic
3 Gods
4 Ancient weapons- artifacts.
My idea of rewards
1 Faction Reputation
2 Recipes unique to that quest- area.
3 Prophesy Scrolls hinting at future expansion content or the next epic quest in the line would be awesome hidden during quest encouraging exploration.
A quest for me is a story. Not just a two-dialog mission to kill X.
The player should be intrigued to persue and take part in the story that is ongoing in location Y. Not just because an npc has a feather or exclamation mark above it's head. Something is happening and I want to investigate. I want to have a chat with the neighbourhood to try and find out what excactly (read quest) is going on.
No need to be super specific about the whereabouts or the manner of retrieval. Just point me in a direction with a vague description or time schedule and I'll be on my merry way. This will allow me to fail, think, learn and adapt to the challenge next time around.
To kill a fix amount of mobs or gather an amount of resources, must be instructed in such a manner it makes sense and when I get back I better see the same amount of return for it. I mean, if a halfling tells me to fetch 10 rat tails, he better make 10 necklaces out of it when I hand it in. Or make the 10-tailed necklace for me. Or even better 10 leather straps and a direction to a tailor who might be need something as well. Were I in the end have a fullyfledged 10-tailed necklace with rubies in it. I understand the importance of a grindquest, some people like it and it's quick fun to go out and kill.
Like some others said before, no need to put all the mobs in one small place with fast respawn. Let us venture out in a sizeable region to with the risk of getting ambushed etc. If the mob is not up, you either move on and come back or take peace with not being able to complete the quest. It again makes it more of an achievement if you did stick around for completion.
A questreward for me, can give bits and pieces and with that I go to another player who can make something out of it. I DO NOT want complete gear as a reward. It does not make sense to me, that an npc would have it laying around and gifting it just because I did some quests for him. He can give me stuff so I can go make it myself or find other players to make it for me. If you want to give me something, give me a brick of hard metal, to melt down, forge and adorn into a workable sword.
A quest can give coin, status, but NOT XP. Experience is gained while experiencing the world. There is not much experiencing by talking to an npc or handing in a quest. The only time I see it making sense is when you have to preform a certain rite or martial art dance in front/with that npc to complete the quest. Then and only then I would have gone through something and thus gained experience.
I do get billboard-quest in a tavern or town pole, stating WANTED or such. Or a skinner requiring a certain amount of skin to fill up his stock because he's become crippled or sorts. Even a tailor requiring specific roots for his next shipment or caravan leaves town. But don't make all quests in such a manner. This is fine for players who walk in a town, pick up a quick round of quests and venture of in the next region of content.
I also get quest events, where a traveler was ambushed in the fields by some evillooking band of goblins and all players willing to help and crossing that certain area can try and retreive his goods from the band of goblins in X amount of time (as the traveler will need to continue his travels with or without his goods, or the goblins dash away with his goods).
Heritage quests are the most fun and rewarding especially if they take months and the entire island/region continent to complete. Even more so if it requires outreach to other players.
Accesquests are a big thing. Just make sure the what's behind the door is optional and not a requirement. After a while the accessquest might become redondant or be lifted or one could simply buy keys for it. That would be such a shame and should never be allowed. If the content beyond the accesquest is a nececcisity, I don't get the point of the acces quest nor the "sense of achievement" of completing such said quest. For example, those that do not do access quest can happily continue with the provided content and do not feel left behind or their importance lowered by not doing the quest. But those that have completed it, might have access to extra resources, another manner of traveling, another pathway, a faction/grind required quest area or the chance of getting rare resources or recipes or a crafting station. Nothing gamechanging, but rather surplus with meaning. There are so many things one could have that isn't a requirement but could still be of benefit for a player to want to do or have.
Mystery. Plain and simple. Mystery.
Challenge in a quest needs to be mental challenge as well. Not just making encounters difficult or making it some unsolvable riddle, but making you *NOT* know things.
Mystique is the most important thing to me.
My favorite example is the Mage Epic and trying to spawn Quillmane in South Karana. There was so much urban legend and misinformaiton it was great. It was totally mysterious and no one really knew the answer.
fazool said:Mystery. Plain and simple. Mystery.
Challenge in a quest needs to be mental challenge as well. Not just making encounters difficult or making it some unsolvable riddle, but making you *NOT* know things.
Absolutely this.
I would also add to this ...suprise. We've all played so many games since EQ and have pretty much done every type of quest known to man or woman by now. So many game quests always telegraph the ending. Collect something, meet someone here, save someone there, deliver something somewhere, knowing all the while that the longer the quest the greater the outcome of some local baddy will have to be dealt with. If the quest could have moments where you need to truly be prepared or if the quest giver didn't explain every detail so that you have some vivid picture of exactly what to do. Surpise and Mystery.
I'm happy to die during a moment of a quest if it meant I wasn't ready or was taken by surprise. In fact I would love that.