Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

Set piece vs real functionality

    • 106 posts
    September 21, 2017 4:42 AM PDT

    Been playing guild wars 2 lately and what really bothers me about the game is that 80 percent of the game is just a set piece. Divinity reach is this giant city that looks all grand but you cant enter any building exept for like 3 instanced buildings. On the walls of divinity reach there is literally like 1000 dwellings but you cannot enter any of it. After running around divinity reach for 5 minutes i feel like im playing panisonic 3D0. Why make a 3d game if you are just going to make 3d wallpaper? If your not going to make a building fuctional with functional door, window, rooms, balcony. etc please dont put it in the game. How can you put any mystery in a city if all you can do is run up and down the street and not enter buildings, sewers, the castle, the barracs, the saloon, brothel, blacksmith shop, etc, etc, etc. I have probably put 200 hours into guild wars 2 and i cant recall a single memorable area in the game because you dont interact with any of the areas. Game is basicly a footpath with 3d wallpaper. If you have ever been in Unrest, Crushbone, Guk, Beffallen, original Freeport, The level design is imprinted in your brain. Everything about those places is memorable. also guild wars 2 is a game of Area Completion, you go to an area for 15 minutes till you fill a bar for an npc then off you go to a new area never to return or remember or care. I dont ever remember in original everquest having a feeling of area completion. sure you can out lvl unrest, guk, befallen but has that ever stoped a single person from comming back from time to time to get thems rare loots and remanice or to farm crafting mats or vender loots?

    • 724 posts
    September 21, 2017 4:50 AM PDT

    To be fair, most doors in a city probably WILL be locked, so its not entirely unrealistic that you can't enter them :) Although I hope that Pantheon will live to its idea of "If you can see it, you can go there"! At least it should be possible to go to all those doors, even if they're locked..

    • 16 posts
    September 21, 2017 6:38 AM PDT

    Locked doors also imply a key or lockpick (at least it does in my mind).  Or it gets opened at some point...And I would guess that the VR team will live up our hopes in these kinds of subjects. and honestly I remember seeing a thread somewhere similar to this thought, but I may be wrong. 

    • 278 posts
    September 21, 2017 7:15 AM PDT

    In ESO most doors is useable locked/unlocked and you might get in trouble if you use them that is a very funn way as you need to check alot to dare sneak in and you dont know if its empty or not either.

    • 2130 posts
    September 21, 2017 6:32 PM PDT

    ESO world interactivity is EASILY that game's best quality, and I would love to see it in Pantheon.

    • 220 posts
    September 21, 2017 6:41 PM PDT

    Maybe not World... I would say, Object interactivity is the game's best quality.  The majority of the game world is on rails and seems more "Enteractive" than Interactive.  Sort of like going on a Disney World ride, with boxes you can break and stuff to steal if you don't get caught... and hidden people cleaning up the mess for the next round... so pretty much exactly like Disney World is interactive... spooky.

    • 28 posts
    September 22, 2017 3:07 AM PDT
    I wish I had an "open" world where you could open or bypass any door. maybe even in a big city you can create an achievement that requires every house to enter
    • 2130 posts
    September 22, 2017 9:42 PM PDT

    ZennExile said:

    Maybe not World... I would say, Object interactivity is the game's best quality.  The majority of the game world is on rails and seems more "Enteractive" than Interactive.  Sort of like going on a Disney World ride, with boxes you can break and stuff to steal if you don't get caught... and hidden people cleaning up the mess for the next round... so pretty much exactly like Disney World is interactive... spooky.

    In fairness, we probably can't expect much more until fully (or at least mostly) destructible worlds become a thing. RIP EQNext.

    • 221 posts
    September 23, 2017 6:29 AM PDT

    Liav said:

    ESO world interactivity is EASILY that game's best quality, and I would love to see it in Pantheon.

     

    There is definitely a level of interactivity we want the game to hit.  Joppa and I have had a lot of conversations on this subject.  From lootable props to climbing and a bunch of other stuff.  We think it’s an important part of exploration and it aids the overall experience but most importantly, it helps bring the world alive.  

     


    This post was edited by Convo at September 23, 2017 6:47 AM PDT
    • 542 posts
    September 23, 2017 7:29 AM PDT

    Interactivity is key and prevents the world of becoming static. Eso has some interactivity when it comes to buildings . Yet with all the gorgeous graphics it has very limited interactivity compared to the other Elderscrolls titles.So the world feels static /bland in comparison.

    It goes much deeper with smaller details.Like being able to throw a vase ,watching the impact of your spell on the environment.

    Interactivity is the glue that ties your character to the world.Giving the player the feeling that their character impacts the world and has a presence in it that actually matters.
    Many of these online games lack that connection . And I believe it actually plays a huge role in the connection players have to the world

    • 220 posts
    September 23, 2017 7:49 AM PDT

    Convo said:

    Liav said:

    ESO world interactivity is EASILY that game's best quality, and I would love to see it in Pantheon.

     

    There is definitely a level of interactivity we want the game to hit.  Joppa and I have had a lot of conversations on this subject.  From lootable props to climbing and a bunch of other stuff.  We think it’s an important part of exploration and it aids the overall experience but most importantly, it helps bring the world alive.  

     

    Don't forget that sometimes when you flip over a rock or a box, there's little critters, and fishing bait.


    This post was edited by ZennExile at September 23, 2017 7:50 AM PDT
    • 454 posts
    September 24, 2017 9:40 AM PDT

    I love the idea of picking locks, exploring sewers, looking through someone's desk.  Good fun!

    • 2419 posts
    September 24, 2017 12:39 PM PDT

    Convo said:

    Liav said:

    ESO world interactivity is EASILY that game's best quality, and I would love to see it in Pantheon.

     

    There is definitely a level of interactivity we want the game to hit.  Joppa and I have had a lot of conversations on this subject.  From lootable props to climbing and a bunch of other stuff.  We think it’s an important part of exploration and it aids the overall experience but most importantly, it helps bring the world alive.  

     

    Interactivity in this sense is a wonderful goal to strive for, but what needs to go with it is a reason to have that interaction.  Going into a town and being able to go into every building is fine, but if they are all empty, what is the point? If the building is a shop, there should be a vendor there.  If it is an Inn, some of the rooms should have guests.  Basically there needs to be people milling around pretty much everyone civilization exists.  Not just standing around, mind you, but many should be moving.

    • 1095 posts
    September 25, 2017 10:33 AM PDT

    Vandraad said:

     ... but many should be moving.

    And killable.

    • 264 posts
    September 26, 2017 9:29 AM PDT

     The thing about MMOs is that they are not as interactive as single player games. This is usually because of budget limitations, but sometimes due to a desire to limit negative player interactions. Compare ESO with Skyrim to get the idea. The original EQ had very little interaction with the environment compared to modern MMOs, what made it great was the unique environments and hidden rooms/traps. I am not against having fully accessible interactive cities, but I don't think that should be the devs top priority. Though it would be nice to avoid the scenario you pointed out with GW2 where everything in the city is cardboard decor with no function whatsoever.

    • 1399 posts
    September 26, 2017 6:06 PM PDT

    I'm just going to throw my 2bits in here real quick. I hope if the devs are only going to put 20 working doors in a town then they have a 20 building town. If this pvE game comes out with doors painted on solid walls I will be very let down and embarrassed to tell my friends about it. Probably never live it down from the ones I have been pitching it to.

    No, just no.


    This post was edited by Zorkon at September 26, 2017 6:23 PM PDT
    • 1785 posts
    September 27, 2017 12:45 PM PDT

    I wanted to bring something up that I don't think has been discussed. I think interactivity extends beyond just being able to go in buildings and open doors, though that is part of it. But I think what we all want is for towns and cities to feel real and alive. That means other things too, like npc's going about their lives, including children. It means shops and merchants who sell different things, and non adventuring things like food or clothing. It means being able to sit on benches or chairs. Little details that make you feel like you are in a real place and not just playing a game. I know discussion so far has focused on doors and buildings but I think those are only part of the equation.