See, I don't care so much about the timer or that there are rewards. The "Dailies" that I dislike are the ones that have a list of known rewards and then, if you keep them up and do, say 25 in a month, you get something that is worth a fair amount and you can't easily get otherwise. It is the sort of forced log in and do these once a day to keep up situation that bugs most people. An NPC that needs you clean his basement of rats once every few days (one real life day) and gives you some coin for doing so or even an item useful for crafting or some other quest doesn't bother me much at all and in fact, I've had plenty of fun with friends doing those kinds of things together.
It is the "Hmm, no one is going to dungeon X anymore and worse, active players is dropping off. We better make a daily in which people do a random dungeon every day and if they do it everyday for a month, they can get the ultra rare weapon upgrade token." type dailies that are simply a sign of a failed MMO in truth.
I hate dailies, I don't even like most regular quests to be honest. Sure an epic quest for my unique armor/weapon or maybe a quest to attain a special skill...stuff like that is great. But I have zero interest in killing 10 bats for villager025 and I have even less interest to do that every single day because it gives the maximum gold. The bottom line here is that daily quests are "endgame" of sorts, they are put into MMOs to keep players busy. It is sort of a grinding mobs on rails for bonus rewards.
Questing should be something the noobs do to get in the swing of things, later on they should be for major progression points or major plot advancement. Questing should not be a constant chore I am forced to perform in a certain way to maximize my income. Questgiver says, "Ziegfried! We call upon you again for the 1000th time to slay the evil brownies. Kill 100 of them, put their wings in the cauldron and clap 3 times!" That is the kind of crap I really hate, the dailies where you are not only forced to kill a certain mob type but then forced to do other tedious stuff on top of it. Maybe I would rather just choose where I want to grind mobs for the day? But I can't, because the rewards for the daily are higher (way more rep, way more gold).
Could daily quests be made into something fun? I doubt it. They are only fun the first few times you do them. Make the rewards for completing them equivalent with grinding mobs and nobody would do them more than a handful of times.
ZennExile said:...fine. Here's another example... with a bit more funk on it.
"Welcome to the Pie shop Traveling NewFriend, you here to shop or you wanna make some coin? I've always got two things, Pie and work to do. If you want to make some coin helpin me out, Shae sets out each morning at first light to a hidden orchard in the mountains. Just meet her there at the second lamp post from This Town's Path and Commons Road. Anything you don't spill on your way back to the shop I'll pay good coin for.
Now... about that Pie you said you wanted?"
What if Daily, is based on the day/night cycle in the game, and NPCs in the game have jobs, or duties, and you can help them to perform these duties on a time sensitive routine, that requires no quest, just passing dialogue and promixity? What if mechanics like this are already planned to be part of perception events?
Would you still hate them?
Yes , Id still dislike them :)
here's a example : say your a druid and lets say every so often you have to go help out a town because druids do that right ? well gosh darnit i just got in this dungeon with my group and now i have to go do that ? Not in my life time :) .. required times sensitive events are not a good thing .
I've been staring at this thread on my phone all day and wanting to reply, but... phone screen keyboard. Yeah :)
So add me to the list of people who dont like "dailies" as they're implemented in just about every MMO out there. They are artificial and lame. Half the time the objectives aren't even fun and the ONLY reason they exist is to meter people's aquisition of so that people keep logging in.
What I would *much* prefer to dailies is seeing things that become available periodically for a limited time, and offer quest-like objectives. Many games now have had the concept of dynamic events (Rift, FFXIV, ESO, others), and I think the only problem with these historically is that they've just been too common, and too ubiquitious, and after a while they start to get repetitive - they don't feel special and unique, like a good quest should. But there's no reason this sort of thing can't be used in moderation to keep things interesting *and* make the world feel a bit more alive at the same time.
I don't want to get into crafting but I will say that as a crafter I abhor repeatedly making items just to turn in for faction/experience/cash. Seriously. I might be in the minority there but whether it's available all the time or just as dailies, very against that idea. "Quests" should be meaningful and have an actual impact on the game world, even if it's only a small one.
The right solution is probably not to have traditional dailies but instead have a variety of things - some dynamically available, some always available, but with dynamic sets of objectives - that players can go and do. But locking everyone into running the same quests every day over and over and over and over and over just because that's the easiest/best way to get faction/tokens/etc is a dumb move, and leads to players burning out on the game faster.
Shea said:ZennExile said:...fine. Here's another example... with a bit more funk on it.
"Welcome to the Pie shop Traveling NewFriend, you here to shop or you wanna make some coin? I've always got two things, Pie and work to do. If you want to make some coin helpin me out, Shae sets out each morning at first light to a hidden orchard in the mountains. Just meet her there at the second lamp post from This Town's Path and Commons Road. Anything you don't spill on your way back to the shop I'll pay good coin for.
Now... about that Pie you said you wanted?"
What if Daily, is based on the day/night cycle in the game, and NPCs in the game have jobs, or duties, and you can help them to perform these duties on a time sensitive routine, that requires no quest, just passing dialogue and promixity? What if mechanics like this are already planned to be part of perception events?
Would you still hate them?
Yes , Id still dislike them :)
here's a example : say your a druid and lets say every so often you have to go help out a town because druids do that right ? well gosh darnit i just got in this dungeon with my group and now i have to go do that ? Not in my life time :) .. required times sensitive events are not a good thing .
Why would that matter? Just don't go. Or wait until the next time. Why do you assume there is motivation enough to do a random chore event, that you would want to leave a dungeon? Unless that dungeon itself is extremely unimportant...
I mean how do you even get to the point in your thoughts where you are like, "meh this dungeon can wait, a temporary event that happens on a regular schedule just happened." How worthless is your dungeon experience at that point? Do you just hate everyone in the dugeon with you? Or do you think helping a shop owner with a supply run would somehow benefit you more than a dungeon camp?
This is not a trashmode MMO treadmill where daily tasks and gambling mechanics are the only purpose for playing the game. So there should be no motivation for people to leave a dungeon camp to "do a daily". Ever. At least none I can imagine.
Why would that matter? Just don't go. Or wait until the next time. Why do you assume there is motivation enough to do a random chore event, that you would want to leave a dungeon? Unless that dungeon itself is extremely unimportant...
I mean how do you even get to the point in your thoughts where you are like, "meh this dungeon can wait, a temporary event that happens on a regular schedule just happened." How worthless is your dungeon experience at that point? Do you just hate everyone in the dugeon with you? Or do you think helping a shop owner with a supply run would somehow benefit you more than a dungeon camp?
This is not a trashmode MMO treadmill where daily tasks and gambling mechanics are the only purpose for playing the game. So there should be no motivation for people to leave a dungeon camp to "do a daily". Ever. At least none I can imagine.
Having daily quests with real rewards will make it a treadmill. Look if you have daily quests you only have about 30 chances a month and 365 chances a year to get the reward for that daily. Every one you miss is gone forever. If there is a reward out there that takes you doing that quest 150 times you are handicapping yourself a little more each time you skip a daily. You cannot get this oportunity back because its time based. You have to wait to try again. Now one or two days is not a big deal but a week or two might be.
With other content you have options to work around the hardship. You can get more people to help, you can upgrade gear to improve enough to overcome it, you can develope new strategies to win. None of that can change that a daily is only open once a day. So that turns it into a must do exercise. Now take away the reward for the quest and there is no treadmill. No penalty for not doing it. Quests should have reward for conquering them, you should never be punished for not doing a repeatable quest. And if these quests come with rewards that good players will want or cash it is a penalty if you dont do them.
You can assign any kind of rewards you want to the process. The motivation to do them is relative to the rewards availble doing other things. There is no reason to assume that doing a scheduled task would even be an ideal way to spend your time. Maybe it has a faction component, or your home in the game requires you work a job in the town you live in.
Try to think of scheduled tasks with rewards that make sense. And stop assuming that anyone would be compelled to "do all their dailies" as if this is some kind of cashScam MMO. The dungeons in those MMOs are also daily treadmills. Everything is a treadmill or a gambling mechanic in those games so none of that perspective applies to Pantheon which is the complete opposite of a treadmill with lootbox gambling.
You are worried that the apples will be too sour, in a peach cobbler. (spoiler alert: there are no apples in peach cobbler)
ZennExile said:You can assign any kind of rewards you want to the process. The motivation to do them is relative to the rewards availble doing other things. There is no reason to assume that doing a scheduled task would even be an ideal way to spend your time. Maybe it has a faction component, or your home in the game requires you work a job in the town you live in.
Try to think of scheduled tasks with rewards that make sense. And stop assuming that anyone would be compelled to "do all their dailies" as if this is some kind of cashScam MMO. The dungeons in those MMOs are also daily treadmills. Everything is a treadmill or a gambling mechanic in those games so none of that perspective applies to Pantheon which is the complete opposite of a treadmill with lootbox gambling.
You are worried that the apples will be too sour, in a peach cobbler. (spoiler alert: there are no apples in peach cobbler)
This is exactly the issue everyone has with dailies. They are part of the treadmill, un-social, faceless, vending machine type of gameplay so many modern MMOs have. We do not want any aspect of that type of gameplay brought into Pantheon. It's not about the fact that dailies are grindy, Pantheon will be a grindy game, just as EQ was. It's not about having a task that refreshes daily. It's not that people do not want "jobs" that they CAN do every day IF THEY CHOOSE.
The issue is that, dailies as the term is used in modern MMOs are referring to tasks such as we see in WoW where you use these dailies to farm reputation or currency to get gear, items, etc. This makes these tasks REQUIRED and not optional. Without doing these tasks you are unable to progress with the rest of the community. You WILL be left behind. These types of tasks are looked upon by many here as a cancer.
If VR adds repeatable tasks you CAN do centered around player housing that does not grant any meaningful progression rewards, awesome. Do It! That would be optional. I do not plan to jump into housing. It's a waste of my game time IMO.
As long as any daily task provides any meaningful progression reward it is a soft requirement for progression. I am totally against this, as many others are.
If you want to get anyone here to change their minds on dailies then we MUST define what a daily is within Pantheon. As I doubt development has gotten that far, this isn't something we can really do at this time. So in context of what a "daily" quest is within CURRENT MODERN MMOs, No. Keep them out of Pantheon. Because ala WoW and pretty much every other game that has "dailies" they provide meaningful progression rewards and are a soft requirement for progression. Absolutely no gameplay beyond the core gameplay (killing npcs within a group/raid and such) should be REQUIRED for progression. Certainly not artificial progression goals designed to force people to login to a game that is lacking in any other meaningful reason to login.
Agree with Kellindil. My biggest problem with dailies is that in the limited time I have to play the last thing in the world I want is to feel obligated to do a thing I don't particularly enjoy, over and over and over again, simply to gain faction so I can get some particular thing. I don't want to feel that i've lost something if I can't log in on a particular day at all. I don't want to feel that I have to choke on a dailies system for a month, or however long it takes to reach a goal and in the meantime have a myriad of other possible advancements go by.
I don't mind the idea of needing faction to get to a goal. I actualy think that's perfectly logical and valid. I just don't want to have to repeat a small number of meaningless tasks for an extended period of time to gain faction. And I don't see dungeons in the same light, when you're getting exponentially higher cash rewards, plus potential loot drops, plus faction, plus other possible incentives, it's in an entirely different category.
Totally agree about dungeons/hunting. Thats core to intended gameplay targeted by VR in Pantheon. Killing things to get faction is perfectly fine. I am going to be killing things for xp and loot anyway as that is CORE gameplay. Comparing dungeons/hunting to dailies is like looking for apples in that peach cobbler. It just doesn't make sense.
DragonFist said:I will say, though, that I hate "daily dungeons" Especially when a "dungeon" is a on-rails repeatable event. And very much especially when you are teleported to said event and popped back when done.
Yes, for sure. VR luckily seems to have no intentions of this sort of thing since dungeons will be public and completely non-instanced.
I'm have a sort of middle ground opinion on dailies. I loved grinding in the Farm in EQ and doing some collection quests as a bonus xp thing. All were repeatable, some were continuously repeatable, some had "lock out" timers. But they added something to the grind experience. I hate the, must log in at least once a day to get several "Dailies" done and then log out gimic to keep playership. It is a poor excuse for game play and isn't fun. What exactly is the difference? Not sure. One thing that comes to mind is that the dailies I liked were of limited value. At some point, you out grow them. They weren't linked to some gearing method. They were just an added touch to an experience that you were going to do anyhow. You weren't going to get end game geared off of them or any thing else. You got some XP, some coin. Not enough to even buy tradable gear (which was not "end game" in EQ, once no-drop was added). They mostly contributed to an existing bit of content and not some endlessly repetitious content that would, for as far as anyone can see, be what you'll being doing till the end of time in that game.
I have no issues with those kinds of repeatable or even daily or weekly quests. I have a big problem with Daily Randoms in ESO and about 20 other games that I've tried since Day Break took over at EQ.
Daily content flies in the face of what this game stands for. If they have dailies, it's like I won't be playing the game. I don't need another game that tells me exactly what to do and when to do it. Level your warrior wednesday, kill 10 bixies thursday. gag me with a spoon.
kellindil said:ZennExile said:You can assign any kind of rewards you want to the process. The motivation to do them is relative to the rewards availble doing other things. There is no reason to assume that doing a scheduled task would even be an ideal way to spend your time. Maybe it has a faction component, or your home in the game requires you work a job in the town you live in.
Try to think of scheduled tasks with rewards that make sense. And stop assuming that anyone would be compelled to "do all their dailies" as if this is some kind of cashScam MMO. The dungeons in those MMOs are also daily treadmills. Everything is a treadmill or a gambling mechanic in those games so none of that perspective applies to Pantheon which is the complete opposite of a treadmill with lootbox gambling.
You are worried that the apples will be too sour, in a peach cobbler. (spoiler alert: there are no apples in peach cobbler)
This is exactly the issue everyone has with dailies. They are part of the treadmill, un-social, faceless, vending machine type of gameplay so many modern MMOs have. We do not want any aspect of that type of gameplay brought into Pantheon. It's not about the fact that dailies are grindy, Pantheon will be a grindy game, just as EQ was. It's not about having a task that refreshes daily. It's not that people do not want "jobs" that they CAN do every day IF THEY CHOOSE.
The issue is that, dailies as the term is used in modern MMOs are referring to tasks such as we see in WoW where you use these dailies to farm reputation or currency to get gear, items, etc. This makes these tasks REQUIRED and not optional. Without doing these tasks you are unable to progress with the rest of the community. You WILL be left behind. These types of tasks are looked upon by many here as a cancer.
If VR adds repeatable tasks you CAN do centered around player housing that does not grant any meaningful progression rewards, awesome. Do It! That would be optional. I do not plan to jump into housing. It's a waste of my game time IMO.
As long as any daily task provides any meaningful progression reward it is a soft requirement for progression. I am totally against this, as many others are.
If you want to get anyone here to change their minds on dailies then we MUST define what a daily is within Pantheon. As I doubt development has gotten that far, this isn't something we can really do at this time. So in context of what a "daily" quest is within CURRENT MODERN MMOs, No. Keep them out of Pantheon. Because ala WoW and pretty much every other game that has "dailies" they provide meaningful progression rewards and are a soft requirement for progression. Absolutely no gameplay beyond the core gameplay (killing npcs within a group/raid and such) should be REQUIRED for progression. Certainly not artificial progression goals designed to force people to login to a game that is lacking in any other meaningful reason to login.
Or just call it a Scheduled Task. And stop trying to use the term "daily" as defined in cashScam garbage MMOs built on a treadmill and cash shop model. Like I said, people are worried about sour apples in a peach cobbler. There are dozens of ways to add in meaningful scheduled tasks for everything from, training skills to earning coin, grinding factions, or even paying the upkeep on your housing.
You can assign any sort of reward you want. There will never be treadmills with which to assign arbitrary daily tasks. There will never be a "road to greatness" or progression model based around daily lockouts. People have to stop assuming Pantheon will be anything like the trashScam MMOs out now, or that have been covered with years of bandaids. Those garbage games are built with the idea that every player needs a guided tour of the amusement park, and VIP treatment if they want to pay extra. They are designed as a casino with carnival rides. Period.
Patheon, will be a hardcore MMORPG. We need to keep that in mind. The term "daily" itself, has no meaning until someone imagines a meaning.
So Zenn, moving away from the term "Daily" as many of us have defined what it means to us and why we don't like it and instead using the term "Scheduled Task", how do you define "Scheduled Task" and what do these tasks add that can't be accomplished using regular or repeatable quests?
Forgive me if you defined it already and I missed it somehow.
ZennExile said:kellindil said:ZennExile said:You can assign any kind of rewards you want to the process. The motivation to do them is relative to the rewards availble doing other things. There is no reason to assume that doing a scheduled task would even be an ideal way to spend your time. Maybe it has a faction component, or your home in the game requires you work a job in the town you live in.
Try to think of scheduled tasks with rewards that make sense. And stop assuming that anyone would be compelled to "do all their dailies" as if this is some kind of cashScam MMO. The dungeons in those MMOs are also daily treadmills. Everything is a treadmill or a gambling mechanic in those games so none of that perspective applies to Pantheon which is the complete opposite of a treadmill with lootbox gambling.
You are worried that the apples will be too sour, in a peach cobbler. (spoiler alert: there are no apples in peach cobbler)
This is exactly the issue everyone has with dailies. They are part of the treadmill, un-social, faceless, vending machine type of gameplay so many modern MMOs have. We do not want any aspect of that type of gameplay brought into Pantheon. It's not about the fact that dailies are grindy, Pantheon will be a grindy game, just as EQ was. It's not about having a task that refreshes daily. It's not that people do not want "jobs" that they CAN do every day IF THEY CHOOSE.
The issue is that, dailies as the term is used in modern MMOs are referring to tasks such as we see in WoW where you use these dailies to farm reputation or currency to get gear, items, etc. This makes these tasks REQUIRED and not optional. Without doing these tasks you are unable to progress with the rest of the community. You WILL be left behind. These types of tasks are looked upon by many here as a cancer.
If VR adds repeatable tasks you CAN do centered around player housing that does not grant any meaningful progression rewards, awesome. Do It! That would be optional. I do not plan to jump into housing. It's a waste of my game time IMO.
As long as any daily task provides any meaningful progression reward it is a soft requirement for progression. I am totally against this, as many others are.
If you want to get anyone here to change their minds on dailies then we MUST define what a daily is within Pantheon. As I doubt development has gotten that far, this isn't something we can really do at this time. So in context of what a "daily" quest is within CURRENT MODERN MMOs, No. Keep them out of Pantheon. Because ala WoW and pretty much every other game that has "dailies" they provide meaningful progression rewards and are a soft requirement for progression. Absolutely no gameplay beyond the core gameplay (killing npcs within a group/raid and such) should be REQUIRED for progression. Certainly not artificial progression goals designed to force people to login to a game that is lacking in any other meaningful reason to login.
Or just call it a Scheduled Task. And stop trying to use the term "daily" as defined in cashScam garbage MMOs built on a treadmill and cash shop model. Like I said, people are worried about sour apples in a peach cobbler. There are dozens of ways to add in meaningful scheduled tasks for everything from, training skills to earning coin, grinding factions, or even paying the upkeep on your housing.
You can assign any sort of reward you want. There will never be treadmills with which to assign arbitrary daily tasks. There will never be a "road to greatness" or progression model based around daily lockouts. People have to stop assuming Pantheon will be anything like the trashScam MMOs out now, or that have been covered with years of bandaids. Those garbage games are built with the idea that every player needs a guided tour of the amusement park, and VIP treatment if they want to pay extra. They are designed as a casino with carnival rides. Period.
Patheon, will be a hardcore MMORPG. We need to keep that in mind. The term "daily" itself, has no meaning until someone imagines a meaning.
Have you actually played a game that didn't have this crap? How about just going out into the world and making of it what you can instead of being told what to do?
Krixus said:Have you actually played a game that didn't have this crap? How about just going out into the world and making of it what you can instead of being told what to do?
Bingo.
Let the players define the world by their actions. Let things unfold naturally, rather than another veiled lure guiding them around to do what the devs prescribe.
This thread is funny. Dailies really are insufferable; I'm glad most people here seem to agree. I never did dailies in WoW. I never really did quests even, except the ones required for attunement or BiS items. Whenever I saw an exclamation point in that game, I'm like maaan pick up your own damn apples, or find your own damn pocketwatch, or collect your own damn orc medallions. I got other **** to do.
Krixus said:Have you actually played a game that didn't have this crap? How about just going out into the world and making of it what you can instead of being told what to do?
You probably cannot name an MMORPG I have less than 500 hours in.
And the definitions of daily here, require a foundation of treadmill mechanics being the CORE AND ONLY progression because it was a filler mechanic applied to help organize the solo player, into a shared routine with other solo players. This treadmill design is then further dependant on the idea that content delivery should be theme park focused. This turns the whole foundation of the gameplay experience squarely away from non-linear progression models, and complex sandbox elements. That changes the possible definition of what a daily can even be.
That type of treadmill/themepark gameplay experience will not be the core of Pantheon. So dailies in Pantheon, could never be the version of "daily" many of you subscribe to in this thread. They would be something else entirely, based on living world elements, likely delivered in the ways I mentioned earlier in the thread, or in a similar fashion. Possibly through the Perception system.
You all are barking up the completely wrong tree here. There is no squirl named "Daily Nut Grinder" in the Pantheon tree, there is a Unicorn named Brad. Unicorn's can't use treadmills, on account of the hooves. And they are firmly against theme parks and instanced community destroying mechanics.
The point of daily lockouts was to control farming, originally. It had absolutely nothing to do with telling players what to do and how to do it every time the log in. That nonsense came as a result of people losing interest in terribly designed games because they were lost in content that made no sense and could not easily find their way back to the linear story elements that define the solo player experience.
In Pantheon, a daily can just be a thing that happens onces per day for a few minutes, and if you miss that window, you have to try and catch it tomorow. That completely different than some arbitrary repeatable action that has a total limit per day because the developer is artificially using daily updates to control progression in a game that is otherwise empty and void of any meaningful RPG elements. Pantheon will not be that empty meaningless play experience you log in to get your reward and do your cooldown quests.
You will log in, and be looking for a group to go exp grind and hope for a rare spawn. And there will be Perception based activities you can participate in that make sense, and have something to do with the game world or the lore. Some of them will probably be repeatable, and possibly even have a cooldown. There is no reason to hate on that. Other than a semantic definition for a term that has no barring on this particular context.
I don't want to be scheduled, I'm not a mindless sheep. I am going to play Pantheon because its the game I have been wanting for a long time. I LOVE GM EVENTS..btw, but interspersed with everything else...not scheduled every day. Big things..make them sporadic, special. Holiday events and such (related to Pantheon world and lore of course) Don't overdo the "herding of cats" that is done in games such as Wow and others. I want to get to know my community, I don't want to be led around by the nose, told what to do and when to do it. Special events...okay, daily ..nope.
Cana
So I think we have established that no one wants repetitive metered content (what most games call "dailies).
There probably is some merit in having a system that generates "quick tasks" for those times when players are saying to themselves "I need something to do".
I think there is a balance that needs to be struck between encouraging players to explore and set their own goals, and providing meaningful goals to drive their gameplay. most players will tend to bounce off games with no direcred content, because let's face it, "experiencing the world" is only fulfilling long term for crazy people like me. By the same token, games that lead people around by the nose really do not lend towards shared social experiences that many of us enjoy.
I think there is room in Pantheon for dynamically generated "tasks" with minor rewards. However they should not be so heavily incented that players view them as a requirement, and they should be varied enough that doing them can be fun/interesting. Likewise, care should be taken to insure that they feel meaningful. If every day, the farmer needs the rats cleared out of his barn, He really just needs to vet some cats instead of paying adventurers to do it. Now, if we start by clearing out rats, then help him buy a cat, and then the rats overwhelm and eat the cat and we end up taking a tiger for the poor guy to end his rat problem for good, and then the quest doesn't happen again for a month or two.... I think that would be ok.
Phone keyboard right now so sorry for typos :)
Nephele gets it. Daily lockouts were originally designed to stop coin farmers from exploiting instances. There is a whole spectrum of possibility you ignore if you pretend "Daily" is the great evil of your gameplay experience. Dailies are probably the only reason many of you kept on playing those trash mode games. Even though it seems like you hate them, the daily task and daily login rewards, are basically the only thing keeping players logged in at all in these games. The gambling treadmill, is the whole game.
So without it, even though you hate everything about it, you probably would never have kept playing those games, as there would be nothing left for you to do.
Pantheon will hopefully have enough depth and content to fill your time up with positive gameplay experiences.
ZennExile said:Nephele gets it. Daily lockouts were originally designed to stop coin farmers from exploiting instances. There is a whole spectrum of possibility you ignore if you pretend "Daily" is the great evil of your gameplay experience. Dailies are probably the only reason many of you kept on playing those trash mode games. Even though it seems like you hate them, the daily task and daily login rewards, are basically the only thing keeping players logged in at all in these games. The gambling treadmill, is the whole game.
So without it, even though you hate everything about it, you probably would never have kept playing those games, as there would be nothing left for you to do.
Pantheon will hopefully have enough depth and content to fill your time up with positive gameplay experiences.
What s/he said is basically what we have all been saying all along. Keep the dailies out of the game, repeatable tasks are fine.
Dailies have never been something that kept me in a game. The only thing that ever kept me logging into any game was the social aspect.
I never participated in dailies in WoW. I just lagged behind. I quit playing WoW when the social aspect went completely out the door and the really good people quit playing.
I play TERA, BnS, BDO every so often for the change of pace in combat. Again I don't do the daily task BS in those games.
I have never run daily dungeons, unless it was coincidentally.
Daily lockouts were designed to slow down gear progression to artifically extend the amount of time needed for a guild/group to progress through content. Without these lockouts people could blow through content in days or weeks and there would be a massive loss in player retention because that is ALL games like WoW have to offer. That is the whole of its content. Gear progression. Coin farmers don't run raids to farm coin. They run dungeons over and over and either sell off junk or break it down for trade skills and sell the materials. The daily quests that revolved around dungeon runs neither helped nor hampered farmers. Infact farmers have an easier time of it in games like Pantheon, because they can sit in one spot monopolizing a spawn to get desired gear to sell.
Dailies are a part of that and need to be culled. As do daily bountys from dungeons, and any other type of task that artificially forces people to participate in any one aspect of the game.
As long as the repeatable tasks are trivial, then they are not required and would be perfectly fine within the game. This has been repeated by most everyone here who is against the inclusion of the "daily" from games like WoW and its various clones.
As most of us have said, as Nephele said, dailies as the term is defined based on games such as WoW are not something most of us want to see in this game.
Repeatable tasks with trivial rewards (in terms of progression) are more than welcome as these types of tasks do not fall under the generally accepted definition of a "daily".
ZennExile said:To be fair there is no reason to be "for or against" the idea of Routine Tasks. Tradeskills in particular make far more sense if you engage in a routine to develop them.
I can think of a whole mess of ways a "routine" form of content delivery could be made immersive and compelling. Growing crops, tending animals, studing new skills, or technology...
Evoras, you dissapoint me by not fairly examining both a positive and negative perspective on routine tasks, and lockout timers. You have completely ignored the "metered content" argument, as well as the "time sensitive delivery" argument. And trying to simplify gaming motivation into blocks of potential time and only three categories? That is a bit of a stretch. Unless you are coming from the perspective of an endorphin gambling machine, and you assume that "time played" is directly equivilent to "time spent playing".
This totally discounts the perspective of any of those players you might see running in circles and happily chatting about nothing important. It also suggests that daily lock-out timers somehow had no impact on the development of modern MMO task models, and the daily reward gimmicks empty MMORPGs with no depth employ to generate a sense of loss to inspire playing more often. Well before the rise of daily reward bait, Developers were adding daily lockouts to specilized content.
And there are plenty of solid arguments for the daily limits of content consumption, time-sensitive delivery, or routine-oriented content. Are you trying to make a case against having a Daily participation task for a week-long World Event? Because from the hard line you are taking, something like this would never be possible.
Why is there such a focus on proving things wrong, when it is so much easier to imagine a new answer...? I could take a guess.
I am against doing dailies as well for the simply reason if i only have an hour to play that day or 2 hours and it is literally used up simply by doing dailies and i didnt have a chance to grp with my friends, that seems unfair to the player, yes you can simply decide not to do them that day but feel like you didnt get everything done that you could of and make sure you get it done the next day even if you still only have the same amount of playing time, i want the game to be around the grping and metting new players than you always set time to the side to do things that takes you away from the core function of all MMOs. like if you want to grow crops for a tradeskill and you really enjoy that part of the game, than be a person who grows crops, dont make it to where we have to grow crops and make it feel like a job, the game is suppose to be fun and make you enjoy yourself, not have you feel obligated into doing something you dont want to.