Hello,
I have some time to kill and wanted to introduce a few ideas that have been on my mind lately -- 'thread necro'ing' and 'too many topics'.
Having moderated a few smaller forums and owning three others (EQ1, EQ2 and Vanguard) I have never personally had a problem with either thread necro'ing or someone asking "that question" again on my forums. I notice that people here seem to mind when someone "revives" an older thread or "asked that question 100 others have asked" and I want to argue that
I notice that some admins and people here seem to mind when someone "revives" an older thread or "asked that question 100 others have asked" and I want to argue that going against this is actually hurting you as a business and as a forum community, my reasons are below:
I guess the bottom line is that when you hassle people about necro'ing a thread or for asking the question that's on everyone's mind - you're effectively limiting your own community by making it a scary place to be.
This is how I feel sometimes when I come here, there are a lot of threads I would like to reply to and get a conversation going - ie: the reason for a forum? but I can't because it's locked by an admin for the above reasons.
Thanks for reading.
I agree on some aspects. I dont think they mind if you continue a conversation in an older thread, as long as you aren't replying about something that happened with the game and development then. We had one of those and some people were reacting to it a year later.
However, some people are lazy and don't do the search themselves. Therefor, they start a post that has been answered countless of other times in another post. It's not really trying to upset or be mean or limit the community, but keep the forums in order and less messy. Also, when you have someone start a topic, and the most active have come and replied 20 times about it, they tend to just ignore the next ones that come along. So now you have 20 posts asking the same question that has already been answered with absolutely NO reply to them. And it's not because no one likes you or doesn't have the answer. It just gets repetitive repeating the same words and doing the work for them; by finding the right links, the FAQ, etc. The streams themselves have TONS of questions asked and answered. And it happens there too. They actually just skip over those repeated questions not to be mean, but because there are new questions that come to light and need to be answered so people understand what kind of game Pantheon will be and what VR is doing to ensure their vision is fulfilled for this game. (We all hate those games that make promises they can't keep).
On another note, their search function kind of sucks. And they don't have a subforum for PVP yet, which is a bit of an issue considering they have a small group within the Pantheon community interested in the PVP shard and what kind of PVP VR has planned for that server. They are in the process of making a new and much improved website to help with this. There are other smaller functions that people have had the same issues with they are planning to avoid with the next website. There is no ETA, as far as I've read, on when the new website will come.
On a super spectacular note, they have a surprise coming to us in the form of Youtube. Subscribe, because all old streams and new streams will be on there. And you'll get notifications for any new videos of cities, zones, new trailers, or extra content :)
I am not sure I understand as a few things you stated are the opposite of what we do here my friend.
I encourage necroing threads as I am the one who has to collect all of the information and it is easier for me and others to find that info quickly and read it as part of one thread if it is relatable and on the same topic.
As for locking/closing threads, that only happens if the rules and guidelines are broken. One main occurrence is people starting a new thread for a topic that already has 6+ threads on the exact same topic, if I didn't control that we would end up with a lot more and all of that information would be lost in a mess of posts spread all around the development forums, so I manage it by consolidation and making sure that people continue to contribute to old thread to keep them active and the information in one place that is easy and quick to find via a search.
Please keep in mind these are our development forums that are designed to best suit us and our company, they are not your typical game forums designed to suit the community, our new IPB forums will be game forums designed with the community in mind but until then, these forums and their guidelines are here to help us get the most out of what we need them for and they work well in that regard.
I understand your reasons for wanting the search to be used and not starting another thread, that makes good sence imo. BUT I have to somewhat agree with the OP that you do not remain consistant with this request. You lock if we start new, you lock if we necro... it's like WTF?
I know you have locked at least two threads I went and searched for and then Necroed, and I bet if I just make a quick scan through the forum I bet I can find some others...
Started Feb 9th 2016 Necroed June 23 2017 by Durp and then locked by kilsin June 25 2017
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/2634/multi-boxing
Started Jan 14th 2016 Necroed June 4th 2017 by Demostorm and then locked by kilsin June 5th 2017
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/2536/mentor-mechanics/view/page/1
And this was just in the first few pages, I could go on and on, I didn't even get to the ones I necroed that you locked. You really should make up your mind dude.
Like the OP said, it's "kinda scarry to post anything" as were not sure what kind of mood Kilisn will be in today.
Zorkon said:I understand your reasons for wanting the search to be used and not starting another thread, that makes good sence imo. BUT I have to somewhat agree with the OP that you do not remain consistant with this request. You lock if we start new, you lock if we necro... it's like WTF?
I know you have locked at least two threads I went and searched for and then Necroed, and I bet if I just make a quick scan through the forum I bet I can find some others...
Started Feb 9th 2016 Necroed June 23 2017 by Durp and then locked by kilsin June 25 2017
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/2634/multi-boxing
Started Jan 14th 2016 Necroed June 4th 2017 by Demostorm and then locked by kilsin June 5th 2017
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/2536/mentor-mechanics/view/page/1
And this was just in the first few pages, I could go on and on, I didn't even get to the ones I necroed that you locked. You really should make up your mind dude.
Like the OP said, it's "kinda scarry to post anything" as were not sure what kind of mood Kilisn will be in today.
It is absolutely fine to necro on these development forums, I encourage it as I have repeatedly stated but when a topic gets an official answer and multiple people continue to drag it out and argue over it, it becomes too much to work to manage and it gets closed, it is a simple as that.
We will not let arguments ruin the first impressions for potential investors, games media, our peers and new community members so they will always be given a warning and then managed accordingly as per the guidelines: https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/1595/pantheon-developer-forum-guidelines
It is important that I am able to read, gather and send important information to the team, therefore pages and pages of arguments and opinions make that job very hard and very time consuming, so I do what is necessary to manage the flow and to allow me to do my job for the team but to say you're "scared to post" is just ridiculous man, hyperbole like that only hurts the community, it doesn't help it.
Ok so ignoring semantics I'll concede that "kinda scary" for my part was a bit too strong of wording. More accurate would be to say it leaves me reluctant to post on a thread I find in the search, and in turn reluctant to even search. That changes nothing about the mixed message being sent.
Edit: I also understand and support the fact that the forums are yours and your decision is what matters here. My comments are simply intended as constructive criticism for your information to use as you see fit for what is best for Pantheon, up to and including totally ignoring my comments if that what you think is best I support you on that as well.
Zorkon said:Ok so ignoring semantics I'll concede that "kinda scary" for my part was a bit too strong of wording. More accurate would be to say it leaves me reluctant to post on a thread I find in the search, and in turn reluctant to even search. That changes nothing about the mixed message being sent.
Edit: I also understand and support the fact that the forums are yours and your decision is what matters here. My comments are simply intended as constructive criticism for your information to use as you see fit for what is best for Pantheon, up to and including totally ignoring my comments if that what you think is best I support you on that as well.
I do appreciate the feedback, unfortunately I am following a set of rules to enable me to manage these forums solo for the company, once we move to the new forums with a shift in mentality to more "game" focussed, I can start to have a bit more fun and allow a more open game friendly theme to evolve but as of right now, I need to keep these development forums in order to best suit the company and myself.
Trust me when I say I cannot wait for the new forums to be ready, the last thing I enjoy is moderating anyone, the extra work it creates for me alone is enough to dislike it but hopefully that will all change soon, I have big plans for the new forums and most of it is already laid out and waiting for them to go live. :)
Kilsin said:Trust me when I say I cannot wait for the new forums to be ready, the last thing I enjoy is moderating anyone, the extra work it creates for me alone is enough to dislike it but hopefully that will all change soon, I have big plans for the new forums and most of it is already laid out and waiting for them to go live. :)
The hype is real :). Seriously I'm looking forward to the new forums as well. Hopefully it'll open some new discussion about things as well because at the moment I feel like I have pretty much posted all my thoughts and opinions on Pantheon at least once and have discussed them at depth with multiple people. Having new things to discuss on new forum software that is easier to follow the flow of conversations will be a very good thing in my mind.
I can already tell that the number of people actively posting on these forums has gone down a lot in the last year or so. I hope that the new forums will encourage more people to start posting again so we have some more interesting discussions again (hopefully without any flames).
I have to say that the fourms here are hard to navigate. There is no search fature avaiable, and when starting a new thread it can be hard to see if this subject has been discussed previously. That combined with the fact that, there are quite a few topics that have been locked, its hard to even know if that topic still has an open thread for discussion.
I also see where Kilsin is comming from as well, moderating a fourm can be a difficult pain in the butt. The fact that this website is not only used for community but also as a professional attention grab to investors, makes the rules and need for managing them more strict. I have been in some of the fourms that have been closed off and 1. there were like 3-4 other threads containing the same question, that had been answered multiple times. (or) 2. The discussion in these threads turned argumenntative, and not in a constructive way. Both cases can appear unprofessional form the viewpoint of an investor.
I have a solution that would make the website appear more professional, as well answering questions from the community, and making it easier to know what to post, and were.
My solution is this: Open a new Developer folder. In this folder have sub folders regarding major topics that tend, to raise alot of questions. these topics include but are not limited to: Death/penality, Gearing, Group/Endgame/Raids, Guilds, Professions, Expansions... etc. Then in the first post within these sub folders do a developers post reguarding whats currently being implemented, and lock it. After this post is created, have all future posts reguarding this topic posted in this sub folder. This system is already kind of in place for the classes, just not major topics that are frequently discussed.
After this has been done, go through the general discussion and move topics into the correct sub folder, while removing any one's that have been answered by the developers post in these sub topics. You could also do a general wipe, however, there are alot of unique ideas that may be lost in this process.
Over the last few weeks there has been an influx of new players, who have joined the fourms. For these new users, navigating forum topics that have previously been discussed can prove difficult. The soultion I have proposed above, would make navigating the fourms easier for both new users, old uesrs, and potiential investors alike. It would also clean up the fourms, while providing a more professional feel of the web site. I feel as if this solution would prove useful in the long run, even though it would require work to accomplish.
- Baldur
I can start up a guide myself later this week if someone would like. And then people can either message me or comment to add certain stuff to it or make it prettier, etc. Then it may get stickied and all anyone has to do is click on the forum post "Guide to Pantheon" and have all their questions answered.
In reality, a third party forum with nearly no moderation will likely arise after launch or during beta, because they always do. That said, these forums are far better than a lot of official forums I've had the displeasure of using. I still think things are way too puritanical here (curse word censorship in 2017, lul), but I digress.
Cromulent said:Kilsin said:Trust me when I say I cannot wait for the new forums to be ready, the last thing I enjoy is moderating anyone, the extra work it creates for me alone is enough to dislike it but hopefully that will all change soon, I have big plans for the new forums and most of it is already laid out and waiting for them to go live. :)
The hype is real :). Seriously I'm looking forward to the new forums as well. Hopefully it'll open some new discussion about things as well because at the moment I feel like I have pretty much posted all my thoughts and opinions on Pantheon at least once and have discussed them at depth with multiple people. Having new things to discuss on new forum software that is easier to follow the flow of conversations will be a very good thing in my mind.
I can already tell that the number of people actively posting on these forums has gone down a lot in the last year or so. I hope that the new forums will encourage more people to start posting again so we have some more interesting discussions again (hopefully without any flames).
I think the reason why the posts have dropped off is for a few reasons but a couple of big main points are that everything has been discussed to death and people are waiting for new information and Agnarr opened up and a lot of people are spending their time playing with friend and returning to EQ to keep the memory alive until Pantheon is ready, and this happens every time a popular game like EQ releases a new server or expansion and as soon as we release something new, it all picks back up again and goes nuts for a while until the hype dies down and the information runs low again, it is a like a never-ending wave that I have learned to ride over the years but it isn't a bad thing, especially in a long and slow development cycle, I am glad people have Agnarr and other things to keep them interested and patiently waiting for Pantheon cause it saves them from burning out here! :)
Baldur said:I have to say that the fourms here are hard to navigate. There is no search fature avaiable, and when starting a new thread it can be hard to see if this subject has been discussed previously. That combined with the fact that, there are quite a few topics that have been locked, its hard to even know if that topic still has an open thread for discussion.
I also see where Kilsin is comming from as well, moderating a fourm can be a difficult pain in the butt. The fact that this website is not only used for community but also as a professional attention grab to investors, makes the rules and need for managing them more strict. I have been in some of the fourms that have been closed off and 1. there were like 3-4 other threads containing the same question, that had been answered multiple times. (or) 2. The discussion in these threads turned argumenntative, and not in a constructive way. Both cases can appear unprofessional form the viewpoint of an investor.
I have a solution that would make the website appear more professional, as well answering questions from the community, and making it easier to know what to post, and were.
My solution is this: Open a new Developer folder. In this folder have sub folders regarding major topics that tend, to raise alot of questions. these topics include but are not limited to: Death/penality, Gearing, Group/Endgame/Raids, Guilds, Professions, Expansions... etc. Then in the first post within these sub folders do a developers post reguarding whats currently being implemented, and lock it. After this post is created, have all future posts reguarding this topic posted in this sub folder. This system is already kind of in place for the classes, just not major topics that are frequently discussed.
After this has been done, go through the general discussion and move topics into the correct sub folder, while removing any one's that have been answered by the developers post in these sub topics. You could also do a general wipe, however, there are alot of unique ideas that may be lost in this process.
Over the last few weeks there has been an influx of new players, who have joined the fourms. For these new users, navigating forum topics that have previously been discussed can prove difficult. The soultion I have proposed above, would make navigating the fourms easier for both new users, old uesrs, and potiential investors alike. It would also clean up the fourms, while providing a more professional feel of the web site. I feel as if this solution would prove useful in the long run, even though it would require work to accomplish.
- Baldur
Just as a quick heads up my friend, we do have a search function on the main forum page, before anyone click to enter a subforum on the top right side (on PC I don;t think it is there for mobile) https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums
In regards to your suggestion, it is a good idea but I think the new forums will remove any need for a separate folder, these whole forums are our dev folder and that is why they need to be managed strictly and consistently so we can maintain professionalism and get the most out of them for us to help with the development of the game.
The new forums can't come quick enough but I appreciate your suggestion, Baldur! :)
fancy said:I can start up a guide myself later this week if someone would like. And then people can either message me or comment to add certain stuff to it or make it prettier, etc. Then it may get stickied and all anyone has to do is click on the forum post "Guide to Pantheon" and have all their questions answered.
I appreciate the offer Fancy but we already have the FAQ that the community helped us with and it should answer nearly everything as they were the communities hot topics over the years and we tried to answer them as best as possible plus when the new forums go live the whole mindset and mentality will change and we probably won;t be far away from testing, so people will have lot's to see and do instead of forum PvP and rehash topics that have been discussed to death :)
Liav said:In reality, a third party forum with nearly no moderation will likely arise after launch or during beta, because they always do. That said, these forums are far better than a lot of official forums I've had the displeasure of using. I still think things are way too puritanical here (curse word censorship in 2017, lul), but I digress.
I don't think puritanical is the right word to use here, especially since the guidelines were created before I joined the team by multiple people, I have actually tweaked them over the years to better suit the community (loosen the restrictions) and tailor them to better allow the company to gather information while keeping it professional for our community members and distinguished visitors a like.
Once the new forums go live I will have a mod team to do all of this for me and the mentality on both sides will be adjusted to a more game friendly environment instead of the business/development mindset that we are in now.
Kumu said:@Baldur - just so you know there is a search feature, it's only available at the top right of the main forums index page, and can be a bit cantankerous until you get used to it, but it is there.
Thank you and cantankerous made me laugh, that is a polite word for them :D
Kilsin said:I don't think puritanical is the right word to use here, especially since the guidelines were created before I joined the team by multiple people, I have actually tweaked them over the years to better suit the community (loosen the restrictions) and tailor them to better allow the company to gather information while keeping it professional for our community members and distinguished visitors a like.
Once the new forums go live I will have a mod team to do all of this for me and the mentality on both sides will be adjusted to a more game friendly environment instead of the business/development mindset that we are in now.
These forums are far better than others that I will not name. I just have a pretty low bar for censorship on a game forum. Then again, I just like to use curse words with impunity.
I'm not complaining, though. :)
Kilsin said:Kumu said:@Baldur - just so you know there is a search feature, it's only available at the top right of the main forums index page, and can be a bit cantankerous until you get used to it, but it is there.
Thank you and cantankerous made me laugh, that is a polite word for them :D
Polite, yet very accurate lol. We have a love/hate relationship :P
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