What makes everyone so excited about end game content in games?
I asked myself this question and my first thought was, "because I want to be the best and do it all!" Then I started thinking about the games I played growing up, and something odd hit me. I've never "finished" a game I considered to be the best. Meaning I never completed the final raid, or even reached max level in some cases. Even now as I sit here remembering those games I can't think of anything but pure excitement when I played them. So here is my list:
1997-1998 - Final Fantasy 7 - Played for months, never even put in the second disk of the game, and still consider it to be one of the best times in a game I've ever had.
1998-1999 - Diablo - Played till I finished it and kinda meh about my experience overall.
1999-2004 - Everquest - Reached a max level of 54 after 5 years of playing with over a year of in game play time. Consider this to be the best time I've ever had on a game period. I loved ever minute of it, and most nights leveling wasn't even a thought as I had so many other things I wanted to do, or see.
2004-2012 - WoW - Took a year to hit max level, and loved every minute of it. Even at max level I spent most nights exploring, or looking for a new pet for my hunter. Only trying a raid if I was invited by someone I knew. The in TBC I started to focus a little more on Raids and PvP, then in WoTLK due to lack of Time I stopped Raiding and focused on PvP, and then when Cata hit I was barely playing the game other than PvP and hated leveling. I stopped playing when MoP came out in 2012, and have tired to play since but just hate how it is now.
2012-Current - Tired a few MMOs, but really only played FPS games, and Moba's as I've just not found anything that really pulled me into it.
So when thinking of these games as being some of the biggest impacts to my gaming life I can't help but see a trend. The games and times in games when I enjoyed them the was when I wasn't trying to get to End Game. Heck most times I wasn't even trying to level or gain anything. I was just enjoying the game, and people in the game. Crafting, Exploring, and standing around in cities talking to folks was what I enjoyed more than anything.
So take a minute to think through what your most impact-full gaming experiences were, and then really think about what you were doing during those times. Maybe you will be like me and find out end game meant nothing to you really, or maybe you will see that end game stuff was everything. I guess a combination of difficulty, beauty, and imagination is all I really need to make an MMO great for me. If you don't mind I'd love to hear what you come up with.
Saicred said:1997-1998 - Final Fantasy 7 - Played for months, never even put in the second disk of the game, and still consider it to be one of the best times in a game I've ever had.
Wow, you need to re-visit FF7 then, if you loved it then you have to finish it as it really is one of the best games ever and only gets better as the game goes on...
With MMO's, ultimately end game is where the bulk of people end up and traditionally that is where the harder content and real group focused gaming comes in... It seems with Pantheon this will be different though which I can;t wait for!
Kipling said:Saicred said:1997-1998 - Final Fantasy 7 - Played for months, never even put in the second disk of the game, and still consider it to be one of the best times in a game I've ever had.
Wow, you need to re-visit FF7 then, if you loved it then you have to finish it as it really is one of the best games ever and only gets better as the game goes on...
With MMO's, ultimately end game is where the bulk of people end up and traditionally that is where the harder content and real group focused gaming comes in... It seems with Pantheon this will be different though which I can;t wait for!
hehe - nah I don't want to change my memories of it by seeing it now :)
I agree though with the harder content. I believe many MMO's make all the content end game due to the fact that a Lvl 30 running a level 21-25 piece of content will be able to get through pretty easily in today's MMO's. However back in EQ this could still be deadly even for a level 30. He/She would still need a group, and they would really get exp from it so it would just be for content / gear that they would run it. I too loved that about EQ and old MMO's.
Anistosoles said:Hoping Pantheon delivers on making real group content all the way through to max level. EQ1 it was that way; well, except for the first few levels or so. I know this may sound cliche', but, to me at least, the real game is the journey to the top.
I agree completely. Even so I enjoyed the work it took to level up skills, abilities, and crafting as well. I mean I could spend days just working on getting on my weapon skills up to max for that level in early WoW. That was fun to me.
I have enjoyed many variations of end-game across different games, but I'd honestly have to say that I enjoyed the sub-class aspect of FFXI the most. In a sense, there was no "end-game" because you could just keep leveling up every class in the game on the very same character. By having the option to use both a primary class and sub-class, you could create very interesting class combinations to really differentiate yourself from other players. I remember leveling up ninja to 37 to use as a sub-class for my paladin. This served no purpose for "end-game raiding" but allowed me to have a viable solo farming spec on my tank. You could be sitting on your level 20 monk, and still think that you're playing "end-game" because ultimately you are still working on power progression for your primary character. The way sub-classes were used in that game always promoted a healthy balance of veteran players working on various sub-classes in all level ranges. It kept all zones freshly populated and relevant. It kept all loot relevant as well because everybody worked on sub-classes rather than just some people working on alts like in other games.
Those kind of things are what I hope to see recaptured with progeny somehow. It's obviously a much different system since it requires you to permanently retire a charcter, but I'm holding out hope that it somehow promotes a strong replay factor for veteran players. Beyond all that though, I always enjoyed being on the cutting edge of group/guild content. In some games, group content actually mattered (EQ2, Nizara/Icy Digg) & (FFXI, majority of content always mattered) but for the most part it was the end-game raiding scene. Being a part of a guild that it is one of the first few to take down new content was unlike any other experience I have had in an MMO. I remember raiding on New Years Eve in EQ2 with my guild and killing God-King Anuk for the first time to get all of our Prismatic 2.0 weapons. Later that year we had a guild party down in Kansas City where we celebrated our friendship and accomplishments in the game. I remember practicing against "The Matron" for 4-6 hours a night for probably a month straight before we finally killed her ... the rally cry in our Ventrilo server was absolutely epic. I really did enjoy building the guild castle in Vanguard/EQ2 as well. Instancing guild halls made common areas like Qeynos/Freeport (EQ2) ghost zones though so it definitely wasn't worth it ... but I would love to see the customization from EQ2 guild halls available, but in an open world game like we saw in Vanguard.
Endgame is the natural endpoint of the current game state, thus the name. High effort, high skill, and high playtime players accumulate there because that is how linear progression works.
There's a bit of a meme about endgame players, and it's generally something along the lines of "look at this nerd skipping the journey just so they can get to the destination". It's a bit of a "chicken or the egg" type of question. In reality, players with lots of playtime as well as high playing ability end up there as a result.
It is a side effect of linear gameplay. There is a finite amount of levels, content, etc. to experience so the more you invest the more you approach that critical mass.
The objective of horizontal progression is to make things a lot less linear, but even then Pantheon still has vertical elements so it is still possible to quantify endgame in a game like this.
For me, endgame means reaching fights that require high levels of party coordination and skill. You could throw this in the middle of the game, but typically that doesn't happen in MMOs. I enjoy these kinds of fights and what they do. That being said, depending on the game, I don't think rushing through levels to get there is always warranted. Sometimes it's good to enjoy the experience.
Endgame is what you look up to when you lvl, its been said tons of times... you see xxx uber guild warrior in full cobalt armor and epic swords and you are thinking omg.. that dude looks awesome I wanna be him someday..Brad already said this in a stream, and hes spot on... Without these figures to look up to you end up like you did, casual and not able to complete many games... sad really if you ask me. But thats just me im one of those nerds not the best of em but in the bottom of em, Love to fight all raid bosses and dungeon bosses atleast once. That's what strives me to come back to a game over and over and over for tons of hours.
zazabar said:For me, endgame means reaching fights that require high levels of party coordination and skill. You could throw this in the middle of the game, but typically that doesn't happen in MMOs. I enjoy these kinds of fights and what they do. That being said, depending on the game, I don't think rushing through levels to get there is always warranted. Sometimes it's good to enjoy the experience.
I hope they do through this in throughout all levels of the game! I enjoy these fights as well from time to time, but enjoy it more when it feels like all fights require a level of skill.
oneADseven said:I have enjoyed many variations of end-game across different games, but I'd honestly have to say that I enjoyed the sub-class aspect of FFXI the most. In a sense, there was no "end-game" because you could just keep leveling up every class in the game on the very same character. By having the option to use both a primary class and sub-class, you could create very interesting class combinations to really differentiate yourself from other players. I remember leveling up ninja to 37 to use as a sub-class for my paladin. This served no purpose for "end-game raiding" but allowed me to have a viable solo farming spec on my tank. You could be sitting on your level 20 monk, and still think that you're playing "end-game" because ultimately you are still working on power progression for your primary character. The way sub-classes were used in that game always promoted a healthy balance of veteran players working on various sub-classes in all level ranges. It kept all zones freshly populated and relevant. It kept all loot relevant as well because everybody worked on sub-classes rather than just some people working on alts like in other games.
Those kind of things are what I hope to see recaptured with progeny somehow. It's obviously a much different system since it requires you to permanently retire a charcter, but I'm holding out hope that it somehow promotes a strong replay factor for veteran players. Beyond all that though, I always enjoyed being on the cutting edge of group/guild content. In some games, group content actually mattered (EQ2, Nizara/Icy Digg) & (FFXI, majority of content always mattered) but for the most part it was the end-game raiding scene. Being a part of a guild that it is one of the first few to take down new content was unlike any other experience I have had in an MMO. I remember raiding on New Years Eve in EQ2 with my guild and killing God-King Anuk for the first time to get all of our Prismatic 2.0 weapons. Later that year we had a guild party down in Kansas City where we celebrated our friendship and accomplishments in the game. I remember practicing against "The Matron" for 4-6 hours a night for probably a month straight before we finally killed her ... the rally cry in our Ventrilo server was absolutely epic. I really did enjoy building the guild castle in Vanguard/EQ2 as well. Instancing guild halls made common areas like Qeynos/Freeport (EQ2) ghost zones though so it definitely wasn't worth it ... but I would love to see the customization from EQ2 guild halls available, but in an open world game like we saw in Vanguard.
I could see how being the first to take down something could be exciting, but for me the time you spend to do it is just overwhleming. With a family its tough to say I'm going to be on 4-5 hours a night for something like this. I can def. see how it would be awesome though to be apart of! I also have high hopes for the progeny system. Really looking forward to seeing what it does for the game once we see those first few hit max level.
raimotion said:Endgame is what you look up to when you lvl, its been said tons of times... you see xxx uber guild warrior in full cobalt armor and epic swords and you are thinking omg.. that dude looks awesome I wanna be him someday..Brad already said this in a stream, and hes spot on... Without these figures to look up to you end up like you did, casual and not able to complete many games... sad really if you ask me. But thats just me im one of those nerds not the best of em but in the bottom of em, Love to fight all raid bosses and dungeon bosses atleast once. That's what strives me to come back to a game over and over and over for tons of hours.
It's sad that I spent years playing games and loving them because I didn't "finish" them? I don't think so. I mean its a game. In a game you are playing to enjoy it. I often found I enjoyed it much more than most who did finish it, so for me I don't find it sad in the least! I do agree though I did love looking at those awesome characters standing in a city with that awesome gear and think wow that looks sweet!