Forums » Off-Topic and Casual Chatter

My Suggestions For Pantheon

    • 54 posts
    July 12, 2017 1:13 AM PDT

    I have a lot of experience with MMORPGs, and so I know what I like. Forgive me in advance for mentioning World of Warcraft so much--but I believe it is the quintessential modern-day MMORPG (which I dislike). I'm well aware that the dev team is already set in their vision for the game; and based on the FAQ, I have no complaints about their vision. Nevertheless, I still wanted to write and share this post.

    1. Respectable penalties for dying

    When nothing or barely anything happens after my character dies, I quickly become bored because there's no emotional investment, much like I have no emotional investment playing DOOM after hitting the keys “IDDQD.” For whatever reason, some players and game developers seem to not understand this concept. But I really do believe this is basic human psychology. If there are no genuine consequences for a player’s actions, then why should the player take any action? If there aren’t any real consequences for me running up to a dragon and smacking its nose, then the dragon may as well be a kitten or nothing at all. If there isn’t any real danger in searching a graveyard for treasure, then when I do find treasure, is it still treasure? Is the graveyard really that spooky? I know that some people think weak death penalties are “in” now, but that isn’t necessarily the case. In the game Rust (Minecraft for adults), players can assault and destroy other player’s bases and steal their items. When a player dies in Rust, other players can loot the body. Despite all this, Rust has done well (5.2 million copies sold so far). That being said, I’d love for you to keep the death penalty the way it is now: experience loss and a corpse run.

    2. Mystery, secrets, and danger

    One of the cool things about the original EQ were the false walls, mazes, traps, hidden chambers, hidden NPCs, and far-off zones that not many would venture to. There's nothing like this in WoW. In WoW, everything is apparent and on the rails for lack of better description. There are no surprises and you get the impression that everything has been done already. This is not to say that everything wasn’t already done in EQ by the time I played it, but every time I did play EQ, I got the impression there was something out there left undone. And when I was in a dungeon or something similar, it really felt like I was in a dungeon. It felt dangerous and I was worried about falling into traps or getting lost in a maze. Or if I were hiking through a mountain overpass, there was the danger of falling off and dying. In WoW, places only appear dangerous, similar to a ride at a themepark.

    3. Challenging encounters

    In WoW, soloing isn't challenging and it is extremely easy when heirlooms are involved (account-bound powerful items given to alts that progress in strength as the character levels). The same holds true for group play; and since there is no challenge in group play, no communication is needed. What results is a group of individuals loosely running next to each other and playing as though they were still soloing, ignoring their crowd control abilities (don’t need them) and defeating the purpose of the MMORPG genre. Granted, this changes in the end-game when raiding becomes prevalent.

    4. No or little fast travel

    If you can get from your current location to your destination in a blink of an eye, then the world shrinks. Not literally, but it might as well. How fun would it be if instead of using a car for a road trip across the United States, you used a private jet. Think of all the missed sights, smells, and opportunities. And you would be correct to point out that using a private jet for a road trip defeats the very purpose of a road trip. Similar to road trips, MMORPGs are about sightseeing and meeting new people. Fast-travel acts as an antithesis for this aspect of the genre.

    5. No "dungeon finder" tools

    In WoW, there’s the Dungeon Finder tool and it works like this: Players sit still and don't communicate while waiting for Dungeon Finder to automatically create a group for them. Once the group is formed, the group is then instantly whisked away to the dungeon the group is interested in. This one tool has diminished the incentive to socialize and travel (to discover) and it effectively shrunk the world. Couple this with the pitfalls of WoW that I oulined in number 3 and you have yourself a brain-numbingly boring game.

    6. No hitting the level cap in a week

    This is just another version of 4 and 1. If every player and their grandma can hit the level cap in a week or less, then the achievement is meaningless. Call me old school, but I think it should take at least 120 hours. To put things in perspective, a good single-player RPG usually has around this many hours—so why do some MMORPG game developers think it a good idea to permit players to hit cap in 10-20 hours?

    7. No instanced dungeons

    I don’t know about others but I enjoyed running around in an area seeing numerous groups camping certain sites, talking to, negotiating, and even fighting with each other. This creates drama, stories, memories, friends, and enemies. And it’s just epic seeing all of these different people playing different characters running around exploring and questing in the same area. But this is largely destroyed by instanced dungeons. With instanced dungeons, your group is temporarily separated from the rest of the game’s community. You might as well be playing a single-player or LAN game at that point.


    This post was edited by manofyesterday at July 12, 2017 11:39 AM PDT
    • 422 posts
    July 12, 2017 5:19 AM PDT

    You and everyone else my friend. All of those points are exactly why we are here.

     

    Only things I might sya is on the dungeon finder. I totally agree we don't want to see a WoW style dungeon finder. What I WOULD love to see is an interface that will create a group based on class roles available and group people together. Maybe allowing you to select an area or zone you want to hunt in, grouping you with others with the same interests. No teleporting to dungeons or zones, just a tool to facilitate getting people together. I like the idea. Many people want to join a group, but don't really want to "lead" a group. The tool would "break the ice" for you, then you just meet up and go on your way as usual.

     

    I doubt we'll see the LFG tool in this form but it'd be something I'd love.

    • 3852 posts
    July 12, 2017 8:27 AM PDT

    Clearly most of us agree with most of this.

    I agree in all respects with Kellindil. Back in the early days some games had group finders that facilitated forming groups but that did not teleport you to the quest area or dungeon. Better than spamming world or zone chat to look for a group and nothing in this that seems inconsistant with Pantheon's nature as a social game.

    I agree that reliance on instances would be misplaced but I do not agree that all use of instances is bad. Use of instances to allow a limited number of encounters to be completed without interference with others can be a plus. Maybe a relatively short story/theme based encounter. Maybe a mini-boss with an item that is needed to progress in a storyline or theme progression where you want neither scores of people competing for the kill nor instant respawn. But I totally agree that an instance-based game is not what we want.


    This post was edited by dorotea at July 12, 2017 8:28 AM PDT
    • 422 posts
    July 12, 2017 8:48 AM PDT

    dorotea said:

    Clearly most of us agree with most of this.

    I agree in all respects with Kellindil. Back in the early days some games had group finders that facilitated forming groups but that did not teleport you to the quest area or dungeon. Better than spamming world or zone chat to look for a group and nothing in this that seems inconsistant with Pantheon's nature as a social game.

    I agree that reliance on instances would be misplaced but I do not agree that all use of instances is bad. Use of instances to allow a limited number of encounters to be completed without interference with others can be a plus. Maybe a relatively short story/theme based encounter. Maybe a mini-boss with an item that is needed to progress in a storyline or theme progression where you want neither scores of people competing for the kill nor instant respawn. But I totally agree that an instance-based game is not what we want.

    I agree here as well. Instancing isn't bad, its just insocial (is that a word?). Private instances take away soo much of the social aspect. A good example of where instancing could be used without killing the social aspect is the Plane of Justice Trials in EQ1 during the Planes of Power era. It was a small scripted group encounter meant to test a single group. Without instancing the encounter would become trivial as it could be done in a raid. This is a prime example of times when instancing is a good thing and brings something to the game experience.

    • 169 posts
    July 12, 2017 10:37 AM PDT
    I hope tbe lfg tool if there is one is limited to zones, or just a list of players that are looking to xp. It should only have the players name, race, class and location.
    Then in order to invite them you have to send them a tell to see what they are set up to do.
    Another thing i would like to see in this game that has been missing from games for a long while now is the ability to customize how you spend your stat points.
    To me it takes some of the thrill and sense of accomplishment from the game when it is all done for you.
    • 3852 posts
    July 12, 2017 10:55 AM PDT

    >Another thing i would like to see in this game that has been missing from games for a long while now is the ability to customize how you spend your stat points.<

    I agree with Megaera, Dorotea murmurs furiously (for those that don't know - Megaera is the name of one of the Greek furies - my current LOTRO character is named Megaera and I was lucky to get the name it was available on just one server).

    • 54 posts
    July 12, 2017 11:37 AM PDT

    A simple LFG tool is fine by me just as long as it doesn't transform into a matchmaker system found in Call of Duty or Overwatch (games that I like). It kills communication and socialization. Limited use of instances makes sense too.

    Based on the FAQ, the devs seem to know what they're doing though. There isn't a single thing that I disagree with the devs on so far which is a first. I'm pretty excited.

     


    This post was edited by manofyesterday at July 12, 2017 11:38 AM PDT
    • 3237 posts
    July 12, 2017 10:18 PM PDT

    Megaera said: I hope tbe lfg tool if there is one is limited to zones, or just a list of players that are looking to xp. It should only have the players name, race, class and location. Then in order to invite them you have to send them a tell to see what they are set up to do. Another thing i would like to see in this game that has been missing from games for a long while now is the ability to customize how you spend your stat points. To me it takes some of the thrill and sense of accomplishment from the game when it is all done for you.

     

    I agree completely.  Allocating my stat points in EQOA was great.  I definitely appreciated the option to customize my character a bit.  It was never anything game breaking, but if a tank wanted to prioritize STR over STA, or vice versa ... that was something they could do.  Likewise, they could pick a resistance every 5 levels or so if I'm not mistaken.  Little things like that were great.