Stratoz said:What moments do you still remeber that you dont whant to relive in Pantheon ?
I think it would have been nicer to go with a positive topic instead of negative. Helps forum environment imo.
I would have to say Gear treadmills that make rarity and accomplishment non-existant. Oh and daileys. That nonsense.
Pantheon will get it right, reading their core values is a breath of fresh air.
-mobile
-Todd
I don't want to see massive stat inflation in a single expac, I don't want to relive the old EQ days of having warriors with barely any skills and paladins/shadowknights/rangers being auto attack til lvl 9. Another thing I don't want to relive is having massive waiting lists for camps and dungeons because there aren't enough of them! To be honest that last one is tricky without instancing...it takes a lot of work to make multiple dungeons Vanguard was insane with how many dungeons it had but it also had a huge team and budget! The team and budget are a lot smaller for Pantheon though so I'm not sure how that is going to work out all I know is it's better to have waiting lists than instancing. So if I must relive the waiting lists so be it.
tehtawd said:Stratoz said:What moments do you still remeber that you dont whant to relive in Pantheon ?
I think it would have been nicer to go with a positive topic instead of negative. Helps forum environment imo.
-mobile
-Todd
I agree a lot of people know my stance on these negative topics but some of the newer members are not aware. I would much rather see posts saying what you do like, rather than what you don't.
Kilsin said:tehtawd said:Stratoz said:What moments do you still remeber that you dont whant to relive in Pantheon ?
I think it would have been nicer to go with a positive topic instead of negative. Helps forum environment imo.
-mobile
-Todd
I agree a lot of people know my stance on these negative topics but some of the newer members are not aware. I would much rather see posts saying what you do like, rather than what you don't.
As a general rule I would agree. I think it's good to look at and acknowledge what we didn't like however. I'm enjoying this thread actually. At first I couldn't think of anything I dident like, but as I read through the thread it was like "oh yea, that. And yep that".
Thread Doesent seen negitive at all (so far), more of the CON side of a pro/con list. And that's a good thing.
Zorkon said:Kilsin said:tehtawd said:Stratoz said:What moments do you still remeber that you dont whant to relive in Pantheon ?
I think it would have been nicer to go with a positive topic instead of negative. Helps forum environment imo.
-mobile
-Todd
I agree a lot of people know my stance on these negative topics but some of the newer members are not aware. I would much rather see posts saying what you do like, rather than what you don't.
As a general rule I would agree. I think it's good to look at and acknowledge what we didn't like however. I'm enjoying this thread actually. At first I couldn't think of anything I dident like, but as I read through the thread it was like "oh yea, that. And yep that".
Thread Doesent seen negitive at all (so far), more of the CON side of a pro/con list. And that's a good thing.
I can understand the fascination with them but they don't help development, my friend. These threads are a dime a dozen, I can't even remember how many have popped up over the years but I look at them for moderation and then move onto something else as they just rehash the same complaints that we are already aware of and have already build the game around, as usually, they are what we (VR team) dislike in games too and we created Pantheon from the start with those things in mind to avoid, so these threads really serve no purpose other than just allowing people to vent and spread a negative mindset that can carry over to other more useful threads.
Every reply is thought about in a negative manner just by reading the thread title, the replies themselves don't need to sound all doomy and gloomy but they are still negative in the way that they are expressing something that the community doesn't like, so it is negative in nature and can have an impact on your thought process for everything you do after reading/participating in this thread, hence why I dislike them.
Constructive criticism/feedback is good as are pros/cons lists on things that we require feedback on but not for things like this that have already been discussed to death.
Anyway, no big deal, I just wanted to touch on what Todd said and give it a bit more explanation to the newer people as he has seen me post before on and knows why I dislike these threads. :)
corpserunner said: Kilsin, I understand the comments may seem repetitive to you, but just consider that as an "insider" you actually get to see the resolution on your end. We may whine about something out here in the wilds, but until we actually get to play, it's still on our minds. Plus, I don't think it's as negative a thing as you may. Sometimes, commiserating forms common ground if we can all laugh about it. Some of these posts have been pretty funny, in retrospect.
I only mentioned it because I am the one that collects the information for the team, so I am the one forced to read all of these posts, I think you would look at it differently if you were the one in my shoes man lol
As for the negative portion, it is psychology 101 - the negativity bias, asking a negative question will, in turn, receive negative replies, which can set the tone for the readers next interaction having a snowball effect on your mood, your thought process and your view on things (even in real life with negative media/news etc.), it can lead to unnecessary arguments, clouded judgement or decisions, rants and negative replies to other community members, which in turn, brings down the mood of others and so on and so forth, the circle continues until it runs out of steam.
But above all else, these are our official development forums where investors, games media, other development companies browse often and negative threads like this don't help us with development, it is a simple as that my friend, you can look at it from all angles and come up with different reasons for why you would allow this but for these forums to work how we designed them to work for us, we have to push these threads aside after being checked for moderating as they serve no purpose, it is just more information that I have to take time to read and then dispose of because we have already heard it before or experienced it ourselves.
If these were normal game forums, then sure, if you guys want to be negative and bring each other down you can (to a degree) as we wouldn't need any information from you but these forums are different and we use them to collect information that will help us with the development of the game (even when you think a boring discussion is taking place I am reading and relaying info to the appropriate team members/developers and we discuss them in detail), rehashing negative thoughts on other games that we are already aware of just serves as a negative place to blow of steam and rant, which is not healthy for a community to be doing too often, which is why I try to limit these threads.
Hopefully, that helped you folks understand why I have very little activity in threads like this and again, you can create them if you like but they won;t help us at all and they will be watched for moderation as these are the threads that tend to get out of hand with arguments over personal opinions etc. due to the sensitive nature of discussing negative things that had a personal impact on your gaming experience.
Kipling said:I don't want to watch a game I love pander to a whinging vocal minority and change the game to satisfy their desires. I also don't want to see the game sacrifice it's identity for the sake of making more money...
Agreed 100%
Edit: Not to be taken as reinforcing a negative, but rather confirming our hope for the inverse of this. After all, thats why we're here in the first place :)
Well, i played many mmo's and the sad reality is all of them shutdown or they went f2p with cash shops.
The 2 mmo's that really stand out for me where Starwars Galaxies and Vanguard. But great games imho but totally failed due to mismanagement.
Especially SWG they totally ruined it because they did not listen to the fan/player base but instead saw dollar sign by (trying to and bad) wow-ifing the game.
Vanguard just didn't get the treatment it deserved (ie, more attention in form of bugfixes and content).
I really, really hope this game will do well. I do not want to play a WOW beater. I just want to play an original MMO with a breathing and vibrant virtual world i can get lost it like i did in SWG and Vanguard.
knoote said:I just want to play an original MMO with a breathing and vibrant virtual world i can get lost it like i did in SWG and Vanguard.
Original concepts are ok, but it will be rather difficult to bring back EQ Vanguard, and SWG to the newer generation of players. Would they play the same game we did, today?
I just have a hard time understanding if after 15 yrs of changes to the MMO genre to easy mode vs our hard mode would the player want to play today AKA Lineage 2 type hard core mode all over?
I keep thinking console type players these days, fast pace get it done, pop in a new cartridge.
Simple. I return to town after a long day of adventuring with heavy bags full of goodies to sell, distracted by my son asking me a question, and accidentally attack the vendor instead of selling which leads to instant death and the loss of some hard earned experience. Fortunately, being bound nearby, I quickly walk to my corpse and collect my things before someone else notices! *blush*
I would have preferred the title for this thread to have read:
"Lesson learned from other MMOs with which to better Pantheon"
So, I will try to answer my own question:
Mastering your Class:
Issue:
Though modern MMO games have fairly in-depth tutorial systems, the rate of progression through the levels - and the concomitant influx of new abilities - is such that players will inevitably find themselves in the position of struggling to master their class at any given level (prior to max level). This has several critical corollaries: content must be sufficiently easy to account for all the players unable to play their classes effectively, grouping is stifled since reliance on others is likely to invite failure, the endgame is the only point of stability for skills and so must be reached quickly (and easily).
Point to Note:
The rate at which characters gain new skills (and hence progress through the levels) needs to be slow enough that the players have sufficient time to practice these skills - both in terms of mastering their own class - but also in terms of finding any potential synergy with the abilities of other classes represented within their groups!
I suspect (hope) that this kind of Issue/Point-to-Note structure would be more useful to the DEVs.
It would, perhaps, offer them an interesting/useful 'checklist' of 'potential pitfalls' that the Pantheon support base here have collated through our combined decades of player experience! Who knows - they may even find a few they have missed!
Evoras, aims to master the Summoner class!
I am NOT wanting to see the ability trees that Rift and lotro had. One of the most frustrating part of any game is having to redo your abilityies and class traits over and over everytime they do a patch. They try changing spells and abilities and you have to redo your tree everytime. If you want to change spells or abilities then do it. If i have it then just change it to what is new and I will read the patch notes and adjust accordingly. Don't just wipe out the whole system and say "do it again to your own needs". It is really annoying .
I also do not want to se sellers spamming the chat channel trying to sell thier wares. Please enforce spammers like this to use trade channels, if they exist. I see a lot of people are against auction houses and they say you should not benefit from selling your wares when offline, then some people want to keep thier characters online when they are not online themselves so they can "add to the immersion". I do not want to get online just to see my charcter being "used by the system" to run a shop or errand for someone else.