Forums » The Bard

2 bards are better than one

    • 677 posts
    June 4, 2017 10:40 PM PDT

    Obviously groups love bards because a single bard can join their group and sing their songs and provide great support and buffs. But I got to thinking, what about a band of musicians? A solo piano player is great but what about Mozart conducting an orchestra playing one of his symphonies?

    How do y'all feel about multiple bards grouping together and trying to pull off, for lack of better words, song combos or synergized songs where maybe multiple bards perform a timing mini game mechanic and if they pull it off right then the buffs they are tyring to cast become stronger or maybe they cast different buffs that create even better effects? Doesn't have to be a timing mini game, it's just the first thing off the top of my head.

    I love the idea. BUT, I also understand that trying to get 3 bards into a single 6 man group is probably redundant and unhealthy and/or unbalanced for the game. So there would have to be drawbacks where it's just not effective or efficient for a single group. I figure the best setting for something like this would be raids. I'm always trying to think of how to take this game to the next level and since I love bards...how do we take bards to the next level. Imagine in EQ trying to twist your songs but then also in a raid trying to pull off a group song combo by twisting with 3 other bards together.

    So what do y'all think? Good idea? Or should I sit down and be humble? If you like the idea then how the hell do we make it work?

    • 78 posts
    June 5, 2017 4:06 AM PDT

    I think this would drive the groups away from diversity in favor of having band mechanics.  I think the group spell mechanic is EQ2 could be improved and applied here though.  It would achieve what you're looking for without restricting it to the bard class.

    • 465 posts
    June 5, 2017 5:09 AM PDT

    I agree that multiple bards in a single group to combine songs sounds unlikely and too much work for the devs, though I love the concept.

    We discussed the raid mechanic briefly before (last year?) - having multiple bards on a raid combine music to create new / more powerful effects.  I think that has merit, but to be fair all classes should have some ways to "raid up" their talents.  Imagine instead of just a main tank taunting that dragon, six are working together to wrestle the dangerous end (is there a safe end to a dragon?) away from the squishes.  Or the arcane casters weave a combined ritual so terrifying it blasts a hole right through the boss mob.  Talk about socialization, coordinating those types of actions could be fun (though it should be hard to pull off / rare success, and probably limited to raid zones or it would get abused).

    I think out-of-combat symphonies (performances in taverns, royal court, or at the popular crossroad's inn) by multi-bard groups would be great.  Like diplomacy effects from Vanguard you could buff the entire town, city, region.  Again, would take concerted effort (pun intended), and decay over time after the band broke up.  Just not sure it's worth the dev's time - perhaps in an expansion after Pantheon is such a huge commercial success they can hire more bards for the office.

    • 2585 posts
    June 5, 2017 5:35 AM PDT

    Kumu said:

    ...I love the concept.

    So much so that you actually started this thread a while ago lol: https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/4117/multi-bard-melodies

     


    This post was edited by Bazgrim at June 5, 2017 5:35 AM PDT
    • 677 posts
    June 5, 2017 12:34 PM PDT

    Bazgrim said:

    Kumu said:

    ...I love the concept.

    So much so that you actually started this thread a while ago lol: https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/4117/multi-bard-melodies

     

    Thanks Baz I knew I could count on you lol. I felt like I saw a discussion on this somewhere but I couldn't remember where and when I was trying to think of search terms I couldn't put anything together that brought this up.

    I have to ask, do you have like a photographic memory and remember all of these discussions off the top of your head and remember exactly where to find the referenced discussion? Or do you see a discussion and think to yourself 'I remember something like this being discussed' and then take a few moments to find it?

    • 677 posts
    June 5, 2017 12:45 PM PDT

    Kumu said:

    I agree that multiple bards in a single group to combine songs sounds unlikely and too much work for the devs, though I love the concept.

    We discussed the raid mechanic briefly before (last year?) - having multiple bards on a raid combine music to create new / more powerful effects.  I think that has merit, but to be fair all classes should have some ways to "raid up" their talents.  Imagine instead of just a main tank taunting that dragon, six are working together to wrestle the dangerous end (is there a safe end to a dragon?) away from the squishes.  Or the arcane casters weave a combined ritual so terrifying it blasts a hole right through the boss mob.  Talk about socialization, coordinating those types of actions could be fun (though it should be hard to pull off / rare success, and probably limited to raid zones or it would get abused).

    Oh yeah, I think it would be cool for multiple different classes to have something like this. I brought it up strictly for bards since I'm privy to the class and don't really play many other classes. Plus I was thinking of the 'band' setting as well.

    I think out-of-combat symphonies (performances in taverns, royal court, or at the popular crossroad's inn) by multi-bard groups would be great.  Like diplomacy effects from Vanguard you could buff the entire town, city, region.  Again, would take concerted effort (pun intended), and decay over time after the band broke up.  Just not sure it's worth the dev's time - perhaps in an expansion after Pantheon is such a huge commercial success they can hire more bards for the office.

    I like this too and was going to add something like this into my OP but felt I didn't want to get into hypothetical situations with single groups. The idea I was thinking of was in grouping situations where class isn't necessarily a factor. Something along the lines of possibly crafting groups where multiple bards could get together and support crafting.

    At the end of the day though I think we believe there is a place for a 'band' feature/mechanic. Whether it be in a combat setting or out-of-combat setting.

    • 2585 posts
    June 5, 2017 1:00 PM PDT

    NoobieDoo said:

    Bazgrim said:

    Kumu said:

    ...I love the concept.

    So much so that you actually started this thread a while ago lol: https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/4117/multi-bard-melodies

     

    Thanks Baz I knew I could count on you lol. I felt like I saw a discussion on this somewhere but I couldn't remember where and when I was trying to think of search terms I couldn't put anything together that brought this up.

    I have to ask, do you have like a photographic memory and remember all of these discussions off the top of your head and remember exactly where to find the referenced discussion? Or do you see a discussion and think to yourself 'I remember something like this being discussed' and then take a few moments to find it?

    Hahah more of the latter. It just sounds familiar and I will usually remember at least a keyword of the title, the name of the person that posted it, or the subforum it was in, which helps me track it down. Sometimes it's easier than others. But it's just a natural result of spending an obscene amount of time on the forums :P

    • 465 posts
    June 5, 2017 7:07 PM PDT

    I have now been 'Busted by Baz' (that's a thing, right?).  I can die happy...

    Bazgrim: I admire your encyclopedic knowledge of what has gone before, don't ever change!  I knew we had discussed something similar, but completely forgot I had started the previous thread.

    Noobie: I still like the band idea - looking forward to joining one in game (with or without dev special coding).


    This post was edited by Kumu at June 6, 2017 5:50 AM PDT
    • 24 posts
    July 24, 2017 6:46 AM PDT

    dylarian said:

    I think this would drive the groups away from diversity in favor of having band mechanics.  I think the group spell mechanic is EQ2 could be improved and applied here though.  It would achieve what you're looking for without restricting it to the bard class.

    EQ2 Heroic Opportunities

    http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Heroic_Opportunities

    One of the EQ2 battle mechanics that I truly enjoy, second to Shiney collecting.

     

    • 60 posts
    August 4, 2017 8:42 PM PDT

    Lovecraft said:

    dylarian said:

    I think this would drive the groups away from diversity in favor of having band mechanics.  I think the group spell mechanic is EQ2 could be improved and applied here though.  It would achieve what you're looking for without restricting it to the bard class.

    EQ2 Heroic Opportunities

    http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Heroic_Opportunities

    One of the EQ2 battle mechanics that I truly enjoy, second to Shiney collecting.

     

     

    I hated that mechanic... nothing worse than grouping with some rando's that have no idea how to play and ruin it.

    I like my abilities to only depend on me. But maybe I'm just selfish lol

    • 455 posts
    November 9, 2017 7:44 PM PST

    NoobieDoo said:

    Obviously groups love bards because a single bard can join their group and sing their songs and provide great support and buffs. But I got to thinking, what about a band of musicians? A solo piano player is great but what about Mozart conducting an orchestra playing one of his symphonies?

    How do y'all feel about multiple bards grouping together and trying to pull off, for lack of better words, song combos or synergized songs where maybe multiple bards perform a timing mini game mechanic and if they pull it off right then the buffs they are tyring to cast become stronger or maybe they cast different buffs that create even better effects? Doesn't have to be a timing mini game, it's just the first thing off the top of my head.

    I was just thinking of this just a moment ago in the "little things" thread, and went looking to see if someone else floated a similar concept.. and you did!! 

    2 x Bards who can play in the same key sig and style to unlock extra buff bonus, however the catch is between the 2 bards there are less buffs running (than 2 bards could otherwise play seperately) but the buffs they are combining together have more power!  They have to communicate key changes and style changes to ensure the buffs run at maximum capacity, maybe they even need to sync the timing too!  This would be partiularly useful in a mele heavy group when they want to further boost haste / mele damage, or in a heavy catser group where they want to combine to have better regen or spell power or somthing.