Forums » Pantheon Classes

Ex FFXI Online player needs help with Pantheon classes

    • 63 posts
    May 14, 2017 3:26 PM PDT

    Hey everyone, first post here on the forums.  A little late to the party but happy to be here none the less its great to meet you all.

    Truth be told I am struggling to understand what the strengths, weaknesses and functions of each class are beyond the broad brush strokes of Healer, Tank, DD, CC distinctions.  Having browsed through the class specific forums and being unable to locate the forum post search function (maybe I am just being blind any help appreciated) I thought I would post and ask for some help.  Many of the threads look like they provide great information but rely on knowledge of the previous EQ games and sometimes specific issues faced during specific expansions of those games which unfortunatly I do not have.

    My first ever MMO was Final Fantasy Online XI (started at Rise Of The Zilart expansion) and to this day I believe this was the best MMO I have ever played, possibly even the best game I have ever played.  For those who did play I was on Siren server and my character was a TaruTaru named Dux (/dance) so a big "Hi "to anyone who knows me.  During my time in FFXI online I really enjoyed the forced grouping EXP parties and LOVED the 64 man instanced raid system know as Dynamis, jebus did I love Dynamis, listening to the music from that still makes the hair stand up on the back of my neck.  Anyway I seem to have digressed slightly but hopefully it shows my enthusiams for MMOs and the type of content I enjoy which is why I am optimistic about Pantheon.

    So yes, the point of the thread.  During the course of my time in FFXI I played the following classes as mains and I am hoping to find their closest classes to them in Pantheon to make an informed choice.  So any advice anyone can give onthe Pantheon classes and what is missing / added compared to what I already know would be great.

    1) White Mage - The primary healer class for raids and EXP parties.  It had mitigation buffs (+Def, +Mag. Def), best single target cures, limited HoT capability, cleansing abilities (cures poison, slience, paralysis etc) and some other nicities that were essential when travelling across the very dangerous open world to your EXP camps such as Teleports/Sneak and Invisibility spells.  I believe that this falls closest to the Cleric class in Pantheon but I get the impression that Clerics do not possession the same level of utility that WHM did.  Have I understood correctly?

    2) Black Mage - The primary ranged magic damage dealer.  This is your standard mage caster glass cannon. very squishey but makes a big dent in the enemies HP pool when their spells connect.  Also had alot of utility with elemental debufs (STR-, INT-, DEX- etc), respectable CC (single target + AOE sleep), HP/MP drain and a fast casting interrupt.   The clost equivalant in Pantheon appears to be Wizard but Wizard does not seem to have the utility of BLM which takes appears to take components of the Enchanter class in Pantheon as well.  Have I understood correctly?

    3) Bard - Oh Bard, this is the job that made me really love FFXI more than any other game and I wish I could be one again bit nobody has ever made a Bard like this since.  Bard in FFXI was a PURE buff/debuff class and as a part of the meta at higher levels it also became the primary puller due to its excellent CC.  A good Bard in a party turned an average party into a good party, a good party into a great one and a great one into the kind of party nobody ever wanted to leave and would literally run and run until nobody could stay awake anymore, good times! In addition to all of that he was also a mana battery making Bard extremely valuable and in demand.   Based on what I have read there is no class like this at all in Pantheon but I do hope I am wrong, this was my favourite class of all time in EXP parties.

    4) Red Mage - This class was between White and Black mage taking a mix of both classes with some excellent utility and acceptable sword skill making them extremely versatile.  It could heal / sleep, buff (Def, Mag.Def and mana battery) and had excellent mitigation making it able to defeat mobs solo through attrition.  Again for EXP parties this guy was amazing (parties operated best with healer + mana battery), gear him up to heal and you can drop your healer and free up a spare slot for a DD classes. - Like Bard there appears to be no class like this at all in Panthon instead it draws on aspects from Enchanter, (? Shaman/Druid?  to be honest the distinction between these two is very unclear to me) and a DD class.  Again have I understood correctly?

    I know its a long post but sadly I do not have the background knowledge and experience from prior EQ games to draw the correct conclusions from the posts I have read, hopefully somebody reads this who is very knowledgable about the previous EQs or has played both FFXI and EQ and can understand what I am asking.

    Thanks for your help everyone, looking forward to reading your responses.

    Dux.


    This post was edited by DuxDux at May 14, 2017 3:29 PM PDT
    • 2752 posts
    May 14, 2017 3:41 PM PDT

    White Mage will likely be closest to Cleric, but traditionally Cleric tends to be a little lower on the utility spells in favor of very strong direct heals.

     

    Same thing with Black Mage being closest to Wizard. The wizard's raw damage output tends to be so great that they aren't given too much in terms of group combat utility spells. 

     

    Bard is likely going to be closest to Bard when they are released. In EQ and what I understand of it from Vanguard, a bard was almost entirely a buff/debuff class (mana regens, hastes, resists, +stats, CC, slows, -stats, etc) with a bit of lower than average melee dps.

     

    Red Mage is likely going to be closest to Shaman, being that shaman typically have some heals, some DPS, and strong buffs/debuffs. Alternatively Enchanter also tends to have the best mana regen spell, good melee dps buffs, great CC and some strong debuffs...but none of the healing.  


    This post was edited by Iksar at May 14, 2017 3:42 PM PDT
    • 633 posts
    May 14, 2017 4:19 PM PDT

    Iksar's reference comparisons are really good.  But also remember that most of us are technically in the dark about what the classes will and won't be able to do.  Most of us are going on assumptions based on previous games (mainly EQ and Vanguard).  So don't get your heart set on playing a specific class yet.  Just know what play-style you want, and as more class data is revealed, you'll be able to make a stronger decision that you'll likely enjoy longer.

    • 73 posts
    May 14, 2017 5:27 PM PDT

    Iksar nailed those correlations.

    One thing that may be a bit different from FFXI (I only played super briefly) is that 'jobs' won't work the same.  If you pick a class, you won't be sub-classing mid-level into something else like Dragoon, etc.

    VR has made it clear over the past streams that the classes we know and love will probably be very similar to their EQ and VG counterparts, but I think with the Rogue doing some limited pure CC there will be some trade-offs in combat that cause overlap.  This is probably healthy so that some classes aren't so nichy no one wants them.  Bear in mind, the best way to look at this is that in EQ1, many of the classes were 'hybrids' of others.  That is very similar to the way FFXI does jobs to sub a class.  So until they gained later levels and diverged/got balanced, many hybrids were looked down upon/not as good as the 'pure' classes like Warrior - specifically in the tank realm, but there are other examples.

    Healers

    Druids - a lot like a red mage in terms of damage / heal mix.  They are nature-based, so usually snares/movement hinderance magic, fire damage spells, and typically heal less pure than a cleric.  Typically thought of as a 'self-sufficient' back then, because they could 'kite' with snares and damage spells to solo while most healers struggled without groups.  Expect them to do generally more damage and utility for group buffs than your 'white mage' counterpart, the cleric.  I think the Acclimation system/resists may change this, and druids may certainly be wanted in groups where atmosphere/climte are a problem.

    Shaman - Iksar nailed that write that up.  Rather than damage, the shaman trades off heals for debuffs and some damage over time.  The debuffs late game, in raids, are usually considered necessary.

    Cleric - We haven't seen the iconic shield ability, which may be useful for blocking passages or armoring mages / tanks, etc from mobs who peel off, etc.  Otherwise, consider this a white mage as said above.  It's pureheals.

    Tanks

    Warrior - Typically a pure fighter, no spells, just pure aggression and typically the highest pure defense class early on.  In original games, they were uncontested best tanks as the other tanks gave up defense, hitpoints, etc, for more damage / utility.  Later on, those were evened out quite a bit.

    Dire Lord - Not much on this class yet, but expect a lot like a Shadowknight in EQ1, which correlates a lot to the similar FFXI class.  Harm touch (long recast ubernuke), disease/poison-based nukes (although I think this game may do something different with that-darkness/negative energy maybe?), and super high threat.  Gave up some armor, as mentioned compared to a pure warrior, and in EQ2, gave lots of great caster-related buffs.

    Paladin - FFXIV was pretty similar here.  It was originally built as a fighter with a cleric sub-job basically.  Minor heals, minor cleric buffs, etc, but again, losing out of some warrior threat generation and gaining more temporary invuln/defense buffs rather than overall defense.  Later on, they gained more individuality as a class.  Expect this game to give them a bit of unique flavor and not make them some wannabe cleric.  Of the three, I say this one is usually the lightest on hate generation in the early game, but lots of survivability/utility.

    DPS

    Ranger - a hybrid fighter/druid, this had minor nature magic/snares, minor buffs, all of limited use early on excpet in solo play.  They were pinch hitters in EQ1, but made most of their win from ranged.  Like FFXI there were problems with having to spend cash to kill monsters (ammunition).  Due to medium armor, they could also somewhat tank in a pinch with high dps agro.  This game is giving them a pet it seems.  It's unclear how much like an EQ1 ranger vs a WoW Hunter type they'll become.  I'd expect some type of blend.

    Rogue - Thief, except with EQ1 having limited non-combat use for rogues beyond scouting ahead while invisibile, they are mostly dps.  Rogues are generally the primary back-stabby dps, now with CC!

    Wizard - covered above.  probably will have a root, maybe a group buff, but expect huge nukes.  Less damage over time, more big bombs.

    Summoner - Correlary to EQ1 Magician.  Expect some sort of primary pet (maybe?) and utility through summoned items.  Previous class summoned water-breathing stones, mana regen rods, elemental resistsnces, etc.  Pet management and knowing when to use utility was key, and they were some of the best soloers in the game.  Also pretty solid tiered damage in groups/raids.

    Necromancer - See Summoner without any utility, but gaining some minor single target buffs.  No one knows yet how they will perform in thsi game if put in by launch, but expect based on what they say about some classes soloing better, this should be up there with the best of them.  Expect a primary pet (maybe?) and lots of death/pestilence/dark magic.  Usually some forms of life taps and life eating for mana to be a non-stop damage machine in long fights.

    Bard - If this gets put in, they won't be king of CC, but expect they are great at situational buffs for every type of group.  Since everything else in the game is so purely role aligned, it's likely they will sacrifice dps for this versatility in buffs for groups and well sought after for it.  Also typically one of those 'good if a good player, bad if a bad player' things.

    CC

    Enchanter - mentioned above well enough.  CC, haste for melee, mana regen, just all around support/cc.

     

    Edit: Kelenin is right, we don't know what the classes will all be yet, except they will be spiritual successors to EQ/VG, with some Pantheon-flavor.


    This post was edited by Zain60 at May 14, 2017 5:28 PM PDT
    • 1778 posts
    May 14, 2017 6:18 PM PDT

    @DuxDux

    Hello, FFXI vet here. I was on Garuda server back before it was merged. And played for about 10 glorious years (Abyssea and what followed finally made me leave eventually).What others have said seems mostly true to me. Keep in mind classes seem to trend more EQ/VG vibe so while there may be similarities to XI, dont expect familiar systems like Jobs and Subjobs and class switching. Pantheon is dedicated to classes being their own thing and has made it clear that Alts are something they like and encourage as well as will likely tie into various systems. And while I think the classes will be fun, expect more traditional classes inspired by D&D. The devs have said more unique classes could come in future expansions in response to VG fans asking for a Bloodmage class.

     

    Also from my understanding of how Pantheon wants to make class roles:

    Pantheon is Tank, Healer, DPS, CC with support spread around.

    FFXI always seemed more like Tank, Healer, DD, Support with CC spread around.

    However, according to recent streams the Devs have said they want buffs to be very important. So at this time there doesnt appear to be any Pure non healing support classes, in the future there could be.

    To the classes:

    Whitemage - Definitely Cleric. Though it does seem like EQ Clerics are a bit beefier than Whitemages (its the Plate). Also if EQ tradition holds true, then no teleports here.

    Blackmage - Wizard I would guess. Powerful nukes! We havent seen a full reveal but they might not have near the aresenal of CC a Blackmage comanded. Though possibly could be teleports here.

    Bard - Bard. Bard will likely not make it for release, but the Devs have said that it (and Necromancer) will come shortly after launch it they cant make it for release. From my understanding Bards in EQ and VG were a bit more DPS focussed and had a bit more CC than XI Bards which were almost pure Support.

    Redmage - Shaman seems most likely but there will still be some differences like no sword skills and abilities. They also seem to be less capable of DPS than RDM. There doesnt seem to be any CC, but they do have a cool wolf pet. There seems to be plenty in the way of heals, buffs, debuffs, and resource regeneration. They will likely be able to "solo" decently compared to other classes. Also I dont know about an ability similar to Chainspell, but apparently Shamans in EQ did get Canabalize which is similar to RDM Convert.

     

    Edit:

    Forgot Druid! Druid also might be a good match for Redmage in more of a healer/nuker sense. We dont have a lot of info on this yet but it had been hinted at quite a bit. Also I dont know how much of a FF series fan you are but if you are a fan of the Job System you might also be familiar with Geomancer. One of the earliest bits of info we have on Druid is from Brad in the Cleric Reveal. The example he gives reminded me heavily of Geomancer. So its possible that Druid could end up being similar to BLM + WHM + GEO.

    From the Cleric Reveal:

    With our emphasis on truly engaging the world, making player vs. environment means more than only fighting NPCs. Most classes will also have abilities and spells that allow them to change the environment in a meaningful way. A great example would be the Druid. He will be able to influence the weather and by doing so truly affect that region of the world. Certain spells and abilities will work better or even only be possible during, say, a lightning storm.

     

     


    This post was edited by Amsai at May 14, 2017 6:35 PM PDT
    • 76 posts
    May 15, 2017 12:53 PM PDT

    Amsai said:

    @DuxDux

    Hello, FFXI vet here. I was on Garuda server back before it was merged. And played for about 10 glorious years (Abyssea and what followed finally made me leave eventually).What others have said seems mostly true to me. Keep in mind classes seem to trend more EQ/VG vibe so while there may be similarities to XI, dont expect familiar systems like Jobs and Subjobs and class switching. Pantheon is dedicated to classes being their own thing and has made it clear that Alts are something they like and encourage as well as will likely tie into various systems. And while I think the classes will be fun, expect more traditional classes inspired by D&D. The devs have said more unique classes could come in future expansions in response to VG fans asking for a Bloodmage class.

     

    Also from my understanding of how Pantheon wants to make class roles:

    Pantheon is Tank, Healer, DPS, CC with support spread around.

    FFXI always seemed more like Tank, Healer, DD, Support with CC spread around.

    However, according to recent streams the Devs have said they want buffs to be very important. So at this time there doesnt appear to be any Pure non healing support classes, in the future there could be.

    To the classes:

    Whitemage - Definitely Cleric. Though it does seem like EQ Clerics are a bit beefier than Whitemages (its the Plate). Also if EQ tradition holds true, then no teleports here.

    Blackmage - Wizard I would guess. Powerful nukes! We havent seen a full reveal but they might not have near the aresenal of CC a Blackmage comanded. Though possibly could be teleports here.

    Bard - Bard. Bard will likely not make it for release, but the Devs have said that it (and Necromancer) will come shortly after launch it they cant make it for release. From my understanding Bards in EQ and VG were a bit more DPS focussed and had a bit more CC than XI Bards which were almost pure Support.

    Redmage - Shaman seems most likely but there will still be some differences like no sword skills and abilities. They also seem to be less capable of DPS than RDM. There doesnt seem to be any CC, but they do have a cool wolf pet. There seems to be plenty in the way of heals, buffs, debuffs, and resource regeneration. They will likely be able to "solo" decently compared to other classes. Also I dont know about an ability similar to Chainspell, but apparently Shamans in EQ did get Canabalize which is similar to RDM Convert.

     

    Edit:

    Forgot Druid! Druid also might be a good match for Redmage in more of a healer/nuker sense. We dont have a lot of info on this yet but it had been hinted at quite a bit. Also I dont know how much of a FF series fan you are but if you are a fan of the Job System you might also be familiar with Geomancer. One of the earliest bits of info we have on Druid is from Brad in the Cleric Reveal. The example he gives reminded me heavily of Geomancer. So its possible that Druid could end up being similar to BLM + WHM + GEO.

    From the Cleric Reveal:

    With our emphasis on truly engaging the world, making player vs. environment means more than only fighting NPCs. Most classes will also have abilities and spells that allow them to change the environment in a meaningful way. A great example would be the Druid. He will be able to influence the weather and by doing so truly affect that region of the world. Certain spells and abilities will work better or even only be possible during, say, a lightning storm.

     

     

    druid may end up being like ffxi SCH nukes healing and weather manipulation


    This post was edited by Akailo at May 15, 2017 12:54 PM PDT
    • 63 posts
    May 15, 2017 12:55 PM PDT

    Thank you for the responses everybody, was very helpful.