HaskarMadnome said:Thank god Brad is not into repair costs.
Imagine doing a hour long corpse run only to get your stuff back so you can run back to the city to repair it. I don't really want to do that.
You wouldn't have to anyway, in VG you could purchase a repair kit for cheap and carry it with you, it is also a great way to keep crafters more relevant, connect players and stimulate the economy, people want realism when it suits them and turn their nose up at it when they don't like something due to a very small inconvenience and fee attached to it, yet those things promote social interaction, give supply demand to crafting and economy stimulation, three very important aspects of this game.
This isn't a direct jab at you either my friend, this is an overall general mentality that continues to appear throughout the wider community and it needs to change! Item decay/repair isn't some ugly monster that people make it out to be, it can be balanced to be a minor part of gameplay while still playing an important role in the game, at this stage, Brad has said he doesn't want it and that is what we are going with for the time being but it isn't a "bad" thing.
Realism is armour and weapons getting dented, chipped scratched, torn, blunt and needing repair/mending/sharpening for a small fee. ;)
Kilsin said =>
Realism is armour and weapons getting dented, chipped scratched, torn, blunt and needing repair/mending/sharpening for a small fee. ;)
and I agree, until you start crushing my flute, puncturing my hand drum, or breaking strings on my favorite lute / harp / hurdy-gurdy.
Just kidding, there is no reason why wear & tear should only be applied to the tank's armor or everyone's melee weapons. Any object would realistically degrade over constant use, including bard instruments, cleric holy symbols, icky necro thingies, wizard pointy hats, etc. All of these could have tie-ins to different trade skills for maintenance to promote social interaction and the overall economy. The trick is to avoid making it tedious or inconvenient, and to make it worthwhile to keep items in good repair.
Kilsin said:HaskarMadnome said:Thank god Brad is not into repair costs.
Imagine doing a hour long corpse run only to get your stuff back so you can run back to the city to repair it. I don't really want to do that.
You wouldn't have to anyway, in VG you could purchase a repair kit for cheap and carry it with you, it is also a great way to keep crafters more relevant, connect players and stimulate the economy, people want realism when it suits them and turn their nose up at it when they don't like something due to a very small inconvenience and fee attached to it, yet those things promote social interaction, give supply demand to crafting and economy stimulation, three very important aspects of this game.
This isn't a direct jab at you either my friend, this is an overall general mentality that continues to appear throughout the wider community and it needs to change! Item decay/repair isn't some ugly monster that people make it out to be, it can be balanced to be a minor part of gameplay while still playing an important role in the game, at this stage, Brad has said he doesn't want it and that is what we are going with for the time being but it isn't a "bad" thing.
Realism is armour and weapons getting dented, chipped scratched, torn, blunt and needing repair/mending/sharpening for a small fee. ;)
regarding the "jab": I don't take it personal. This is the "general pantheon discussion" forum and we can only have discussions when people have different opinions. I am glad that VR is taking part in the discussions and I am personally honored that you took the time to comment on my post :)
regarding repairing: It is true that repairkits make crafting relevant. It certainly did in EQ2 for the carpenter and the tinkerer. It shouldn't be the only thing that makes crafting worthwile. If it is, I'd rather have menders in every village do the mending of gear. But this is a completely different topic.
regarding economy and social interaction: I have to agree with you. Everything to increase social interaction is worthwile. But ... with the auction house system I don't see any gain in social interaction by introducing repair kits to the game. Am I missing anything here? I had more social contact to people in EQ1 because they needed a necro for a summon corpse than in EQ2 with my carpenter selling repair kits on the broker.
regarding realism: Realism is fine, but pantheon is a world of magic and probably dragons and things that are far from realism, maybe it can be a world where armor and weapons don't get dented? At least magic items? I dont play fantasy MMOs for the "realistic" part. I can have that in real life :)
edit: If you ever see me asking for realism in this game, please hit me :)
Kumu said:Kilsin said =>
Realism is armour and weapons getting dented, chipped scratched, torn, blunt and needing repair/mending/sharpening for a small fee. ;)
and I agree, until you start crushing my flute, puncturing my hand drum, or breaking strings on my favorite lute / harp / hurdy-gurdy.
Just kidding, there is no reason why wear & tear should only be applied to the tank's armor or everyone's melee weapons. Any object would realistically degrade over constant use, including bard instruments, cleric holy symbols, icky necro thingies, wizard pointy hats, etc. All of these could have tie-ins to different trade skills for maintenance to promote social interaction and the overall economy. The trick is to avoid making it tedious or inconvenient, and to make it worthwhile to keep items in good repair.
Lol, I am telling the devs to put item degradation on all Bard instruments now! :D
HaskarMadnome said:Kilsin said:HaskarMadnome said:Thank god Brad is not into repair costs.
Imagine doing a hour long corpse run only to get your stuff back so you can run back to the city to repair it. I don't really want to do that.
You wouldn't have to anyway, in VG you could purchase a repair kit for cheap and carry it with you, it is also a great way to keep crafters more relevant, connect players and stimulate the economy, people want realism when it suits them and turn their nose up at it when they don't like something due to a very small inconvenience and fee attached to it, yet those things promote social interaction, give supply demand to crafting and economy stimulation, three very important aspects of this game.
This isn't a direct jab at you either my friend, this is an overall general mentality that continues to appear throughout the wider community and it needs to change! Item decay/repair isn't some ugly monster that people make it out to be, it can be balanced to be a minor part of gameplay while still playing an important role in the game, at this stage, Brad has said he doesn't want it and that is what we are going with for the time being but it isn't a "bad" thing.
Realism is armour and weapons getting dented, chipped scratched, torn, blunt and needing repair/mending/sharpening for a small fee. ;)regarding the "jab": I don't take it personal. This is the "general pantheon discussion" forum and we can only have discussions when people have different opinions. I am glad that VR is taking part in the discussions and I am personally honored that you took the time to comment on my post :)
regarding repairing: It is true that repairkits make crafting relevant. It certainly did in EQ2 for the carpenter and the tinkerer. It shouldn't be the only thing that makes crafting worthwile. If it is, I'd rather have menders in every village do the mending of gear. But this is a completely different topic.
regarding economy and social interaction: I have to agree with you. Everything to increase social interaction is worthwile. But ... with the auction house system I don't see any gain in social interaction by introducing repair kits to the game. Am I missing anything here? I had more social contact to people in EQ1 because they needed a necro for a summon corpse than in EQ2 with my carpenter selling repair kits on the broker.
regarding realism: Realism is fine, but pantheon is a world of magic and probably dragons and things that are far from realism, maybe it can be a world where armor and weapons don't get dented? At least magic items? I dont play fantasy MMOs for the "realistic" part. I can have that in real life :)
edit: If you ever see me asking for realism in this game, please hit me :)
I didn't think you would man but I had to put a disclaimer as some people do! I would rather jump the gun and make it clear straight up than have people get upset and think I am being mean or attacking them, which is never the case! :)
Yeah, it all comes down to balance and personally I am all for a well-balanced item degradation/repair system but I am outnumbered on the team and in the community it looks like, so we will have to wait and see how it goes without one in testing and maybe look at other ways to stimulate the economy and help crafters remain "wanted".
HaskarMadnome said:regarding economy and social interaction: I have to agree with you. Everything to increase social interaction is worthwile. But ... with the auction house system I don't see any gain in social interaction by introducing repair kits to the game. Am I missing anything here? I had more social contact to people in EQ1 because they needed a necro for a summon corpse than in EQ2 with my carpenter selling repair kits on the broker.
People need to get passed this repeated claim that auction houses destroy the social aspects of EVERYTHING .
Now, because you don't like auction houses, there should not be repair kits? C'mon.
Not saying its right but EQ1 each class had their pains. Necros and Shadow Knights had to spend their cash to by bone chips or spend hours farming them. Mages had to spend money on gems for pets. Monks had to pass on loot that was heavy. Bards could only carry 4 bags because they needed 4 main slots open to hotkey to switch weapons and instruments so they didnt get much loot. Rangers spent a fortune on arrows or spent hours making them. I get your pain and sorry you were treated badly. I do wonder how Pantheon will handle this.
I have always liked the idea that magically enchanted items not require repair ... since well, they are magic. However, I am OK with non-magical items requiring repair.
You may ask, how can you do this in a game where everyone’s gear is magical? I answer that by saying, why does everything need to be magical? Why not have higher-level non-magical gear that is easier to get, maybe from store purchases or common NPC drops?
That is one thing I do not understand about games, everything at the mid/later stages is magical with a bunch of stats. I think useful, normal items should be thrown into the mix. I don’t see why we cannot have, say a high AC BP that is just not magical, or a high damage weapon that is not magic, but perhaps is still an upgrade? That stuff could be put in, be useful, and require repair.
Beefcake said:HaskarMadnome said:regarding economy and social interaction: I have to agree with you. Everything to increase social interaction is worthwile. But ... with the auction house system I don't see any gain in social interaction by introducing repair kits to the game. Am I missing anything here? I had more social contact to people in EQ1 because they needed a necro for a summon corpse than in EQ2 with my carpenter selling repair kits on the broker.
People need to get passed this repeated claim that auction houses destroy the social aspects of EVERYTHING .
Now, because you don't like auction houses, there should not be repair kits? C'mon.
I didn't say that I dont like auction houses. Not in this thread and not in any other thread. I said that introducing repair kits will not increase social interaction as long as there are auction houses :)
With Pantheon we will get corpse runs back. Back in EQ1 people died a lot trying to get their corpse back. It can be hard enough. Introducing item repair costs and XP dept combined with a lengthy corpse run can really be frustrating.
I am sure VR will come up with a different approach to plat sinks.
This thread is derailing ... so back to the topic:
If there are no automatic loot options the community will have to take care of it.
After a while everyone will know who is a greeder and who stole loot and those people won't get into groups so easy. It worked in EQ1 (at least until Gears of War. That's when I left)