I didn't see anything when I searched for it, so here goes.
In EQOA and EQ (From what I remember) the tank would get all the trash-stacks. The reason being is his repair bill was 100% higher than everyone else in the group and often it would barely cover the cost of repairs.
The problem with this is that healers and DPS would have to go farm for their gold and often lead to non-tank playing people to assume tanks just saved all the cash when that wasn't the case. This would cause DPS to "Hold the loot" so tanks could pull faster instead of looting trash and then logging out at the end of the run leaving the tank to go farm the repair bill for everyone's experience.
Are there any plans to mitigate this in Pantheon? What kind of mechanics will be in place for this?
Liav said:EQ didn't have repairing, but yeah, in EQOA it was common to do so.
I don't really recall people holding loot from tanks, though. Not outside of very, very few 10 year olds who didn't understand basic game mechanics.
I mained a warrior in EQOA, had quite a few times the DPS wanted to hold the stacks and then screwed me. And it got into such a debate of, "I don't know you, I don't trust you." that the group would turn on the tank for not just giving in. Then if we did give in, we had to fit our own bill.
Burnsmh said:I mained a warrior in EQOA, had quite a few times the DPS wanted to hold the stacks and then screwed me. And it got into such a debate of, "I don't know you, I don't trust you." that the group would turn on the tank for not just giving in. Then if we did give in, we had to fit our own bill.
It makes sense, but this same scenario happens with loot in general, as in ninja looting. I don't really think there's a way to prevent people from being like that.
In Vanguard, repairing was such an inconsequential/cheap thing that it didn't matter if it was in the game or not.
Liav said:Burnsmh said:I mained a warrior in EQOA, had quite a few times the DPS wanted to hold the stacks and then screwed me. And it got into such a debate of, "I don't know you, I don't trust you." that the group would turn on the tank for not just giving in. Then if we did give in, we had to fit our own bill.
It makes sense, but this same scenario happens with loot in general, as in ninja looting. I don't really think there's a way to prevent people from being like that.
In Vanguard, repairing was such an inconsequential/cheap thing that it didn't matter if it was in the game or not.
Exactly, I don't want it to be so minimal that it doesn't matter if it's in the game or not. In my opinion, it should be an aspect of the game that would bring us to a blacksmith as either a gold sink or a community thing if we could have blacksmiths as players who repair increasing social interaction. But at the same time I don't want it to open up a bunch of Ninja looters and discourage people from playing tanks.
I think the question really boils down too is what is the repair system for armor going to be like?
In EQ some groups would give all the loot to clerics because symbols buffs required gems.
I never followed the logic personally, that's the cost of doing business IMO, at most they nneeded to symbol 3 people/recast or death (usually 45min duration) at 12pp per cast (roughly let's say average 60pp per hour), and 1 hour in OS you could easily cover that cost just from autosplit.
So why they thought that entitled them all the gem loot (usually ended up averaging 200 to 300pp per hour) is beyond me.
Based on this thread, it looks like last we knew, Brad is not in favor of having item repair in Pantheon: https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/1382/item-degredation-and-repair/view/page/2
EQ2 used gear repair as a way to keep players in check. They used it in tandem with instances, though. If you died 10 times while in an instance, you were done for the week. You couldn't repair your armor while in the zone and after zoning out, the instance would poof. I thought it was pretty lame to be honest, but it was a pretty effective barrier. You couldn't just practice a mob over and over ... every death was meaningful.
In EQ, my groups typically tended to one person looting and splitting proceeds at the end of the night. Of course, that required trust and there were times that trust was misplaced. Jotted down the name, passed it around the guild and any we were allied with to not group with that player. If the player was guilded, one of our guild officers would talk to an officer from that guild. But for the most part, it worked and worked well.
I will foot my own bill. It comes with the territory. I don't care if my armor is two or three times more expensive to repair. I'll split loot evenly amongst the group. Tanks have the easiest time in the game getting groups organized ... it more than makes up for extra repair costs, if they exist, IMO.
oneADseven said:I will foot my own bill. It comes with the territory. I don't care if my armor is two or three times more expensive to repair. I'll split loot evenly amongst the group. Tanks have the easiest time in the game getting groups organized ... it more than makes up for extra repair costs, if they exist, IMO.
It does, but friends help :) I am typically more than happy to give some share for repairs for tanks, after all, you take a pounding so I don't have to...well, unless slow has high aggro similar to EQ, then I get pounded a bit as a shaman
oneADseven said:I will foot my own bill. It comes with the territory. I don't care if my armor is two or three times more expensive to repair. I'll split loot evenly amongst the group. Tanks have the easiest time in the game getting groups organized ... it more than makes up for extra repair costs, if they exist, IMO.
Totally agree with this
I liked how eq2 handled loot. Group leader could set the loot to whatever the group decided on, from ffa to nbg to my group's usual standard of nbg legendary + - which basically set all the trash loot to round robin automatically, but prompted a nbg roll for anything decent to fabled +. And if any player didn't want trash loot, they could auto decline.
I realize most here will want to see the original method of EQ looting. The above system did end a lot of squabbles though and let us play the game rather than constant manual corpse cleanup.
Bazgrim said:Based on this thread, it looks like last we knew, Brad is not in favor of having item repair in Pantheon: https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/1382/item-degredation-and-repair/view/page/2
Really hope they stick to that.
oneADseven said:EQ2 used gear repair as a way to keep players in check. They used it in tandem with instances, though. If you died 10 times while in an instance, you were done for the week. You couldn't repair your armor while in the zone and after zoning out, the instance would poof. I thought it was pretty lame to be honest, but it was a pretty effective barrier. You couldn't just practice a mob over and over ... every death was meaningful.
Not true , we had mender bots that repaired armor. Also there are ways to "keep" a instance this was compounded by persistant instances later on.
There was nothing to prevent you from doing a mob over and over.
I can count on one hand zones that had a hard reset and even those had trival reset timers.
Xxar said:oneADseven said:EQ2 used gear repair as a way to keep players in check. They used it in tandem with instances, though. If you died 10 times while in an instance, you were done for the week. You couldn't repair your armor while in the zone and after zoning out, the instance would poof. I thought it was pretty lame to be honest, but it was a pretty effective barrier. You couldn't just practice a mob over and over ... every death was meaningful.
Not true , we had mender bots that repaired armor. Also there are ways to "keep" a instance this was compounded by persistant instances later on.
There was nothing to prevent you from doing a mob over and over.
I can count on one hand zones that had a hard reset and even those had trival reset timers.
There were no repair kits in T5. I'm pretty sure they weren't even available in T6. I specifically remember doing instances and as soon as our armor was at 0%, that instance was done for the week. As soon as you killed a boss (trash in some cases) you would receive a lockout. After zoning out, it was impossible to re-enter until your lockout expired. Eventually repair kits and menders were implemented and removed the 10 tries and your done approach to instanced raiding but it definitely existed in T5, and possibly T6 as well. I do remember keeping a couple players in an instance to keep it open but that happened down the road. You couldn't attempt a mob over and over ... you were limited to 10 wipes and then you had to raid in back-up gear. I remember killing stuff in back-up gear. =D
*Edit -- Yeah, repair kits weren't implemented until T7.
I do not think it is the game developer’s responsibility to decide for us what is “fair” way to distribute loot. If one player spends their money using consumables or has to repair gear then it is the group’s responsibility to make that decision.
When I played a Cleric in EQ the group would typically allow you to keep a few gems as extra to help compensate for going through a stack or two of peridots. That is a player driven decision.
What I want to avoid is the developers thinking that is a problem and just removing things like consumables, repairing, etc. because people complain about it.
bigdogchris said:I do not think it is the game developer’s responsibility to decide for us what is “fair” way to distribute loot. If one player spends their money using consumables or has to repair gear then it is the group’s responsibility to make that decision.
When I played a Cleric in EQ the group would typically allow you to keep a few gems as extra to help compensate for going through a stack or two of peridots. That is a player driven decision.
What I want to avoid is the developers thinking that is a problem and just removing things like consumables, repairing, etc. because people complain about it.
I agree, honestly. Repairing and consumables are very effective ways to control inflation given proper implementation.
The reason it was such a big deal in EQOA is because repairing was expensive as **** and was also very integral to the systems of the game. You could break your gear in just a few hours of grinding, so it is very important to manage. Either way, the devs are likely relatively committed to their already established vision.
bigdogchris said:I do not think it is the game developer’s responsibility to decide for us what is “fair” way to distribute loot. If one player spends their money using consumables or has to repair gear then it is the group’s responsibility to make that decision.
When I played a Cleric in EQ the group would typically allow you to keep a few gems as extra to help compensate for going through a stack or two of peridots. That is a player driven decision.
What I want to avoid is the developers thinking that is a problem and just removing things like consumables, repairing, etc. because people complain about it.
Agreed. Or worse creating odd mechanics like a 5% cash bonus on loot splits to certain classes. Ultimately in EQ it seemed that the classes that had the least issue getting groups (clerics, enchanters, etc.) were the ones that commonly had the high-demand buffs with costly components. It always seemed like a worthwhile tradeoff to me (which I think oneADseven pointed out) that if you were able to get a group with relative ease then a few more coin out of your pocket was a cost of your advantage.
I know I would have a hell of a time getting pugs as a necro. And I sure as hell charged people who wanted a corpse summoned, but that was 100p a pop, and I wasnt commonly able to find lucrative camps I could sit in to recoup the costs.
Krixus said:In a game where progression is slow, upgrades are potentially few and far between, items are rare and can even be a status symbol, having decay/repair doesn't seem like a good idea.
Unfortunately in a game like EverQuest not having repairable / destructable gear results in an economy that is totally screwed up. There need to be some major money and gear sinks in Pantheon to keep the economy on track.
Cromulent said:Krixus said:In a game where progression is slow, upgrades are potentially few and far between, items are rare and can even be a status symbol, having decay/repair doesn't seem like a good idea.
Unfortunately in a game like EverQuest not having repairable / destructable gear results in an economy that is totally screwed up. There need to be some major money and gear sinks in Pantheon to keep the economy on track.
I'm all for slowing down inflation. I suppose item decay isn't really a big deal. I guess I don't like the idea of being deep in some dungeon for a few hours and suddenly losing strength because you have to go repair. That's not good risk/reward while someone else just bums around a few minutes from their local repair NPC. And this is when people chime in with some custom solution like repair kits or a repair skill or having repairs be tied to tailoring/leatherworking/blacksmithing depending on the type of item, and now we're off onto yet another thing the devs have to do. /shrug
Well, repairing could be a basic skill that everyone has and in order to do so they must buy kits which are consumables. That being said, players could have the possibility of going to a NPC however they'd miss out on the loot/exp while other parties could just try to find a safe spot within the dungeon and just repair their stuff as quickly as they can before they need to get into another fight.
Not saying that it would fix everything, but I feel like it could be a neat idea or perhaps something to start with.