Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

Dual Specialization

    • 3237 posts
    May 25, 2017 6:41 AM PDT

    dragonpriest said:

    Ok, I don't post often, because it's usually twisted and taken the wrong way, but this is something that I feel really strongly about.  I do not want there to be multiple specs in Pantheon.  Why?  Then you end up with all the loot whores that think they have to gear up each spec, and then you have people able to do everything instead of branching out and finding people to play with.  Not only that, but it also starts a lot additional whining about things being unbalanced.  I say let each class have it's path, like in EQ and live with the roll you choose.

    In my opinion, this is one of the worst things that WoW did when they allowed spec switching.  I know I'm going to get flamed for this, but so be it, flame on, but that's my 2cp on the issue.  Either way, I'm still going to be playing.

    Specialization in Pantheon won't be what you saw in WoW.  Paladins won't have a viable tanking, healing, and DPS spec.  Their primary role will be tanking.  They may be able to offer some decent situational healing, but their primary role will be tanking.  Same with druids.  In WoW, they were capable of being a stellar tank, healer, and DPS.  Their primary role in Pantheon will be a healer.  That doesen't mean that they won't be capable of dishing out some decent CC ... but their primary role will be healing.  All classes will have a primary role and some will have secondary or even tertiary roles.  I don't imagine monks being able to tank as well as any of the primary tanks, nor do I imagine any tank class being super efficient as DPS.  With the right setup and situational gear, though, they may be able to fill in and do a decent job at these secondary or tertiary roles but they won't be the "master" of that role.

    • 2752 posts
    May 25, 2017 9:47 AM PDT

    dragonpriest said:

    Then you end up with all the loot whores that think they have to gear up each spec

     

    Well...that's how it was in EQ and I honestly am hoping it ends up in Pantheon, not gearing each spec but people rolling on everything. EQ was a roll/pass system and I hope they incorporate that into this game over need before greed. Everyone in the group can roll on drops regardless of who can "use" it (everyone can use it in some way even if they can't equip) because everyone is there putting in the same time and effort. NBG works in games like WoW where items are mostly soulbound and having someone take other class gear is a total waste, but in a system like this a wizard taking a rare plate chest means he can sell it and get a robe or something else for his class.

    • 13 posts
    May 25, 2017 10:09 AM PDT
    Iksar, Yeah I remember, but that method is also what prevents a lot of people from joining pick-up groups, and sticking to groups of just friends and guilds. I'm the type of person I'll roll on it if need be, but if I'm a cloth wearer and I get this shiny uber breastplate everyone is after, it's just gonna sit in my bank or get vendored, because I hate trying to sell stuff and I won't buy anything off the auction house because I refuse to pay the over inflated prices people ask for stuff. I was the same way in EQ. Can't tell you how long a piece of Rubicite sat in my bank before I decided to make a char that could wear it. Even now it's still sitting on that low level warrior on an inactive account.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not fussing or complaining, just trying to point out a different point of view on the matter, and I know a lot of people that do the same as I do.
    • 169 posts
    May 25, 2017 10:13 AM PDT

    You guys are starting to get abit off topic, this isnt really a discussion on loot.

    Specilizations and how VR is going to use them is all pure speculation at this point. With testing right around the corner lets try to see how their system works.

    Yes i want specialization of some sort, but really dont want to see classes being able to do everything. Each class should be able to perform 2 roles, the one they are specilized in and 1 other one at an average level even with top end gear. This will keep class diversity high, player interactions high and raids at some point full of people.


    This post was edited by Megaera at May 25, 2017 10:14 AM PDT
    • 3237 posts
    May 25, 2017 3:04 PM PDT

    Iksar said:

    dragonpriest said:

    Then you end up with all the loot whores that think they have to gear up each spec

     

    Well...that's how it was in EQ and I honestly am hoping it ends up in Pantheon, not gearing each spec but people rolling on everything. EQ was a roll/pass system and I hope they incorporate that into this game over need before greed. Everyone in the group can roll on drops regardless of who can "use" it (everyone can use it in some way even if they can't equip) because everyone is there putting in the same time and effort. NBG works in games like WoW where items are mostly soulbound and having someone take other class gear is a total waste, but in a system like this a wizard taking a rare plate chest means he can sell it and get a robe or something else for his class.

    A wizard wanting to roll on a rare plate chest piece that would be an upgrade for the tank? ... /puke  Never in all my years of gaming has that been considered anything but pure greed.  One could argue that virtually any item that has a monetary value could be "used" by every class because it could deepen their pockets.  I'll pass on that.  I would never roll on caster gear or spells if they are an upgrade to someone in my group, nor would I allow someone in my group who played like that.  This is supposed to be a group-centric game ... where accomplishments are "shared" ... and for people who like "cooperative play."  If that's how things used to be in EQ, I'm really glad the MMO community has evolved to the point where if something drops and it's an upgrade for someone in the group, it's expected that they get priority on it.  I wouldn't have it any other way.

    When it comes to specializations, it can make loot a little tricky, especially with super high-end raid gear.  If a piece of tank jewelry dropped, for example, it's possible I would let a monk roll on it if it made sense to do so.  If the monk brings value to the raid in their tank spec then yeah, it would be considered.  But if their tank spec was more or less something used for grouping, then that piece of tank jewelry would be reserved for the true tank classes.  The monks could always get it down the road after the primary tanks get it first.  Likewise, if both druids and monks wear leather and a piece of DPS leather gear drops, monks would get priority on it over druids.  It can be tricky to justify all of those decisions and sometimes people can get butthurt but at the end of the day need trumps greed.

    I'll never forget the time when a brigand got butthurt in EQ2 because we wouldn't let him roll on a ring that had stamina/parry/deflection.  Brigands couldn't even use the deflection skill and parry was so much more effective on brawlers.  Not only that, but any piece of jewelery with deflection on it was super rare.  The brigand ended up leaving the guild because of "crazy dictatorship rules" and we happily moved on with our lives, knowing we had one less loot hoebag amongst us.  I have always played with the mindset that when one of my comrades received an upgrade, by extension, I did as well.  I am also of the mindset that if a class can only benefit from half of the stats on an item whereas another class can benefit from it 100%, it would go to the class that received the most benefit.  There can be exceptions to the rules of course but for the most part that's how we rolled.  I embrace a "team first" mentality and when someone ruins the "Do Re Mi Fa So La Ti Do" song with "Me Me Me Me Me Me Me Me" ... sayonara.

    • 1468 posts
    May 25, 2017 3:48 PM PDT

    Iksar said:

    dragonpriest said:

    Then you end up with all the loot whores that think they have to gear up each spec

    Well...that's how it was in EQ and I honestly am hoping it ends up in Pantheon, not gearing each spec but people rolling on everything. EQ was a roll/pass system and I hope they incorporate that into this game over need before greed. Everyone in the group can roll on drops regardless of who can "use" it (everyone can use it in some way even if they can't equip) because everyone is there putting in the same time and effort. NBG works in games like WoW where items are mostly soulbound and having someone take other class gear is a total waste, but in a system like this a wizard taking a rare plate chest means he can sell it and get a robe or something else for his class.

    Pretty much all the groups I was in in EQ were need before greed and rightly so. Having people winning an item that they can't use that would have been an upgrade for another group member is the worst form of anti-social gaming you can find in MMOs.

    • 2752 posts
    May 25, 2017 4:45 PM PDT

    We all have our own view on how things should be done and our own past histories in these games but we will all be eating whatever VR has in store. I still respect all the different opinions on here, even if I disagree with some. It's good to see both sides as I think there tends to be fair points on all sides of any given fence. 


    This post was edited by Iksar at May 25, 2017 5:48 PM PDT
    • 3237 posts
    May 25, 2017 5:15 PM PDT

    Iksar said:

    oneADseven said:

    A wizard wanting to roll on a rare plate chest piece that would be an upgrade for the tank? ... /puke  Never in all my years of gaming has that been considered anything but pure greed.  One could argue that virtually any item that has a monetary value could be "used" by every class because it could deepen their pockets.  I'll pass on that.  I would never roll on caster gear or spells if they are an upgrade to someone in my group, nor would I allow someone in my group who played like that.  This is supposed to be a group-centric game ... where accomplishments are "shared" ... and for people who like "cooperative play."  If that's how things used to be in EQ, I'm really glad the MMO community has evolved to the point where if something drops and it's an upgrade for someone in the group, it's expected that they get priority on it.  I wouldn't have it any other way.

     

    It would have been a colossal waste of my time in EQ if I went by that. Why would casters ever waste their time camping the frenzy or ghoul lord spawns in Lower Guk when they have pretty much zero chance of getting an FBSS or Ykesha? Or camping the spore king when you'd have next to no chance to get a Fungi Tunic? Unless every named camp in this game has drops for each class then you are wasting your time camping things that don't get you loot and advance your character, especially at max level. (This only applies to pick up groups, if you play with friends/guild members then by all means do need before greed)

     

    It's not like most items are going to be bind on pickup/equip. If the mob the group is camping doesn't drop caster stuff and I am a caster then why can't I "need" roll on the item as I please? I'm investing just as much time and effort with everyone else in the group so why shouldn't I have a shot at the rewards? If I win and can sell the item and buy something I can actually use. It isn't that the warrior NEEDS the breastplate, he WANTS it. 

     

    It's all just want. You want the piece of armor to use, which can always be sold later for profit. I want the piece of armor to sell now to get something else. You need the piece of armor because it is an upgrade for a while then you can sell it later. I need the piece of armor to sell now to buy something I can actually use. If it is a trade-able item then anyone in the group can use it even if they cannot equip it. It isn't greedy or "me me me."

     

    greed: noun: intense and selfish desire for something, especially wealth, power, or food.

    self·ish: adjective: (of a person, action, or motive) lacking consideration for others; concerned chiefly with one's own personal profit or pleasure.

     

    Which sounds more greedy/selfish? "I can equip that armor so it should be mine" or "Let's all have a roll and see who wins."

     

    In any case, we will have to wait and see how it ends up. We all have our own view on how things should be done and our own past histories in these games but we will all be eating whatever VR has in store. I still respect all the different opinions on here, even if I disagree with some. It's good to see both sides as I think there tends to be fair points on all sides of any given fence. 

     

     

    Whatever you say man.  I'm sure there will be plenty of tanks lining up to group with you knowing that you'll be wanting to roll on their upgrades to sell them.  Let me know how that works out for you.

    • 1468 posts
    May 25, 2017 5:17 PM PDT

    Iksar said:

    oneADseven said:

    A wizard wanting to roll on a rare plate chest piece that would be an upgrade for the tank? ... /puke  Never in all my years of gaming has that been considered anything but pure greed.  One could argue that virtually any item that has a monetary value could be "used" by every class because it could deepen their pockets.  I'll pass on that.  I would never roll on caster gear or spells if they are an upgrade to someone in my group, nor would I allow someone in my group who played like that.  This is supposed to be a group-centric game ... where accomplishments are "shared" ... and for people who like "cooperative play."  If that's how things used to be in EQ, I'm really glad the MMO community has evolved to the point where if something drops and it's an upgrade for someone in the group, it's expected that they get priority on it.  I wouldn't have it any other way.

    It would have been a colossal waste of my time in EQ if I went by that. Why would casters ever waste their time camping the frenzy or ghoul lord spawns in Lower Guk when they have pretty much zero chance of getting an FBSS or Ykesha? Or camping the spore king when you'd have next to no chance to get a Fungi Tunic? Unless every named camp in this game has drops for each class then you are wasting your time camping things that don't get you loot and advance your character, especially at max level. (This only applies to pick up groups, if you play with friends/guild members then by all means do need before greed)

    It's not like most items are going to be bind on pickup/equip. If the mob the group is camping doesn't drop caster stuff and I am a caster then why can't I "need" roll on the item as I please? I'm investing just as much time and effort with everyone else in the group so why shouldn't I have a shot at the rewards? If I win and can sell the item and buy something I can actually use. It isn't that the warrior NEEDS the breastplate, he WANTS it. 

    It's all just want. You want the piece of armor to use, which can always be sold later for profit. I want the piece of armor to sell now to get something else. You need the piece of armor because it is an upgrade for a while then you can sell it later. I need the piece of armor to sell now to buy something I can actually use. If it is a trade-able item then anyone in the group can use it even if they cannot equip it. It isn't greedy or "me me me."

    greed: noun: intense and selfish desire for something, especially wealth, power, or food.

    self·ish: adjective: (of a person, action, or motive) lacking consideration for others; concerned chiefly with one's own personal profit or pleasure.

    Which sounds more greedy/selfish? "I can equip that armor so it should be mine" or "Let's all have a roll and see who wins."

    In any case, we will have to wait and see how it ends up. We all have our own view on how things should be done and our own past histories in these games but we will all be eating whatever VR has in store. I still respect all the different opinions on here, even if I disagree with some. It's good to see both sides as I think there tends to be fair points on all sides of any given fence. 

    I don't mind being in a group where everyone can roll on items that drop as long as it is decided at the start of a group. I don't want to spend 2 hours in a group killing some named mob and see an uber item for my class only for another person to roll and win that item where all they are going to do is sell it for a quick profit. These kind of things need to be decided by the whole group before anything is done and if a new member comes to replace someone they should be told about the loot rules before pulling starts back up again.

    As for why someone would want to be in group if they couldn't get any loot I would hope the fact that they are getting experience and are able to chat with people in social setting would be enough for most people. It certainly is enough for me. If you NEED loot in order to join a group then that very much is the definition of greed because you require payment for your services rather than just chilling out with a group of friendly players.

    That is how it was on my EQ server. Maybe your server was different but we very rarely had issues with loot that I can remember.

    • 483 posts
    May 25, 2017 5:31 PM PDT

    moved the reply to the "looting rules" thread since the original post I replied to was also moved.


    This post was edited by jpedrote at May 26, 2017 11:33 AM PDT
    • 2752 posts
    May 25, 2017 5:49 PM PDT

    Moved my response here, as this is getting off topic: https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/4170/looting-rules/view/page/4

     

     

    • 9115 posts
    May 25, 2017 6:21 PM PDT

    Iksar said:

    Moved my response here, as this is getting off topic: https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/4170/looting-rules/view/page/4

     

     

    Thank you Iksar :)

    Please keep it on topic folks or risk having it closed, as per the forum guidelines, also keeping in mind we have our own system in place that we will reveal more on when it is ready but we are not taking feedback or suggestions on this until we get into testing where people can try out our game with our systems, mechanics and features first hand. :)

    • 13 posts
    May 25, 2017 7:17 PM PDT
    Thanks for that tidbit of info Kilsin.
    • 3237 posts
    May 25, 2017 7:49 PM PDT

    Kilsin said:

    Iksar said:

    Moved my response here, as this is getting off topic: https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/4170/looting-rules/view/page/4

     

     

    Thank you Iksar :)

    Please keep it on topic folks or risk having it closed, as per the forum guidelines, also keeping in mind we have our own system in place that we will reveal more on when it is ready but we are not taking feedback or suggestions on this until we get into testing where people can try out our game with our systems, mechanics and features first hand. :)

    I'm glad to hear that a system has been decided upon regarding specialization.  I was under the impression that there was nothing set in stone regarding this topic just a few weeks ago.

    I would like to echo your sentiment from 02/11:

    "I cannot wait until we move from these "development based" forums to the new "game based" forums, I think that shift in mentality will help drive it home and people can just enjoy the hard work we have done over the last 3 years using all of the information and feedback we have received on these forums and just enjoy the results of that cooperation and information we release instead of trying to analyse, pick apart and write essays on "why they think there is a problem with X system, Y mechanic or Z feature..." when in actual fact they are basing it off a severe lack of information, opinions/preferences or 10-20-year-old experiences with other games that are not related to Pantheon. ;)"

    These development forums have obviously outlived their purpose and it isn't fair to you that you have to keep reminding us (me in many cases, sorry about that) that we're no longer in the stage of development where feedback or suggestions are being considered.  That said, as long as we're using "development forums" I think many folks find it hard to resist the idea of providing suggestions and feedback.  I really hope the web team gets the new forums pushed out soon.  They're way over-due and I'm sure their implementation will save you and the entire community plenty of headaches.  I won't bother updating this thread anymore.  I was able to get warrior out of the way which was my main goal anyway, so thank you to Sunmistress for giving me an excuse to skip through a bunch of classes to get to my favorite.

    • 9115 posts
    May 25, 2017 11:37 PM PDT

    oneADseven said:

    Kilsin said:

    Iksar said:

    Moved my response here, as this is getting off topic: https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/4170/looting-rules/view/page/4

     

     

    Thank you Iksar :)

    Please keep it on topic folks or risk having it closed, as per the forum guidelines, also keeping in mind we have our own system in place that we will reveal more on when it is ready but we are not taking feedback or suggestions on this until we get into testing where people can try out our game with our systems, mechanics and features first hand. :)

    I'm glad to hear that a system has been decided upon regarding specialization.  I was under the impression that there was nothing set in stone regarding this topic just a few weeks ago.

    I would like to echo your sentiment from 02/11:

    "I cannot wait until we move from these "development based" forums to the new "game based" forums, I think that shift in mentality will help drive it home and people can just enjoy the hard work we have done over the last 3 years using all of the information and feedback we have received on these forums and just enjoy the results of that cooperation and information we release instead of trying to analyse, pick apart and write essays on "why they think there is a problem with X system, Y mechanic or Z feature..." when in actual fact they are basing it off a severe lack of information, opinions/preferences or 10-20-year-old experiences with other games that are not related to Pantheon. ;)"

    These development forums have obviously outlived their purpose and it isn't fair to you that you have to keep reminding us (me in many cases, sorry about that) that we're no longer in the stage of development where feedback or suggestions are being considered.  That said, as long as we're using "development forums" I think many folks find it hard to resist the idea of providing suggestions and feedback.  I really hope the web team gets the new forums pushed out soon.  They're way over-due and I'm sure their implementation will save you and the entire community plenty of headaches.  I won't bother updating this thread anymore.  I was able to get warrior out of the way which was my main goal anyway, so thank you to Sunmistress for giving me an excuse to skip through a bunch of classes to get to my favorite.

    Yeah, I agree man, these forums were great to start with for the first couple of years but then it became impossible to maintain so many ideas and suggestions due to us implementing our own and tweaking them to include a ton of community feedback on some of our systems and giving us new and exciting ideas to implement, which we have done, but now we are pretty much at the point where we have nearly everything in or set to go in and it is impossible to change anything until it is tested, so switching to game forums and removing the need for ideas/suggestion posts will be good for both the team and the community as then everyone will know where they stand, what we have planned and been able to test it for themselves and provide feedback but until then, we are in a kind of limbo :)

    I personally cannot wait until the new forums go live, I spend more time than anyone on them and the way I have to go about moderating and searching for information is mind numbing, especially going through ever subforum, every day, multiple times manually to find new posts, read them, reply or moderate them and then pass any gathered information onto the appropriate devs! The new forums will make my life a lot easier so it will give me more time to interact and do more fun stuff with you folks! :D

    • 3237 posts
    July 20, 2017 1:27 PM PDT

    Do we have confirmation if dual specialization will be a thing for all classes?  Would love to hear some more information about this.  I remember asking if specialization would be a thing and it was said at the time that nothing was set in stone.  Soon thereafter, we learned that monks would be able to specialize.  Is this exclusive to monks or will all classes have a chance to feel special?  Also, I think it would be great if the monk class page was updated ... it's been awhile since that information has been released, and seeing that there is a huge spike in recent activity on the site since the new video, I think it would be great if people were able to digest all of the information available in an easy to find place.  I'm sure plenty of people check out the classes page and think that it's current.


    This post was edited by oneADseven at July 20, 2017 1:30 PM PDT
    • 9115 posts
    July 20, 2017 7:00 PM PDT

    oneADseven said:

    Do we have confirmation if dual specialization will be a thing for all classes?  Would love to hear some more information about this.  I remember asking if specialization would be a thing and it was said at the time that nothing was set in stone.  Soon thereafter, we learned that monks would be able to specialize.  Is this exclusive to monks or will all classes have a chance to feel special?  Also, I think it would be great if the monk class page was updated ... it's been awhile since that information has been released, and seeing that there is a huge spike in recent activity on the site since the new video, I think it would be great if people were able to digest all of the information available in an easy to find place.  I'm sure plenty of people check out the classes page and think that it's current.

    No, nothing just yet, that will come with more combat information as development progresses when we break it down a lot more and speak to different parts of combat. 

    • 3237 posts
    October 19, 2017 9:28 AM PDT

    Looking forward to an update on whether or not other classes will also have specialization choices like monks do.

    • 3237 posts
    January 8, 2018 3:23 PM PST

    (The following is meant to illustrate how each class can achieve multiple flavors of the same role.  It is to be assumed that every class will have a variety of core abilities that persist, regardless of specialization.  This is also under the assumption that players can learn both masteries over an extended period of time and rotate them while out of combat.)

    Bard: Bards can play multiple songs in harmony by using their instrument(s) and voice. Mana Regen / Movement Speed are core class songs.

    Rhapsody: Empower your allies with music and song; synergy extraordinaires, bards trained in the arts of Rhapsody focus on sustain.

    • Hymn of Nature:  Elemental resistance buff (fire/ice/water/electric/earth)
    • Battle Cadence:  Defensive boons (parry/dodge)
    • Booming Jazz:  Temporary alacrity buff that reduces recast timers on abilities/spells used while the buff is up.
    • Song of Stoneskin:  % based stoneskin proc that can be maintained on a single ally.


    Requiem: Demoralize your foes with melancholy and intimidation.  Bards trained in the arts of Requiem focus on offensive prowess.

    • Dirge of Sorrow:  Debuff that reduces defensive attributes (block/parry/dodge)
    • Chant of War:  Buff that increases offensive attributes (pierce/slash/crush/ranged)
    • Corruptive Crescendo:  Debuff that reduces arcane/noxious resistances.
    • Final Eulogy:  In-combat rez that takes less than 2 seconds to cast.

    Rites of Passage: Bard songs can be altered over time by seeking out various gypsy lyricists and renowned musicians spread across the world of Terminus. Advanced bards can blend a broader range of songs together, accentuating synergy potential in their groups.

     

    Cleric: Clerics offer the highest true healing output of any class and have exclusive access to "reactive healing" which are small heals that trigger each time an ally is attacked.

    Devout: Provide sanctuary for your allies with various forms of CC immunity.  Clerics trained in the arts of Devout focus on damage mitigation, temporary immunities, and an extra potent in-combat rez.

    • Sanctuary:  Group buff that provides temporary group immunity to various forms of CC or other non-damage impairments.
    • Stoneskin:  Group stoneskin buff that can be cast on multiple allies but the proc % is shared between them.
    • Absolution:  Instant Cast 75% HP/Mana restorative in-combat rez with a long cooldown.
    • Bastion:  Group buff that grants a high amount of armor class.


    Curate: Purge debilitating debuffs with the added effect of a bonus heal on every successful cure.  Clerics trained in the arts of Curate focus on shielding/cleansing their allies from harmful effects.

    • Divine Aura:  Max HP Buff that also grants defensive attributes (block/parry)
    • Purify:  Low cooldown cure that can be used cross-group, grants a small heal for each impairment cured.
    • Elixer:  Buff that grants a % based chance to nullify noxious/elemental impairments.
    • Arcane Suppression:  Temporary group buff that reduces arcane/divine damage.


    Rites of Passage: Clerics can learn to modify their spells by acquiring various celestial tomes that are spread around the world of Terminus. Their spells can be adjusted in ways such as removing portions of the arcane/divine/poison/disease aspect of their spells and focusing them into a single resist. IE, buff that provides 50 cure potency vs poison/disease debuffs instead changes to 100 poison or 100 disease, and can continue to modify the numbers back and forth as needed.

     

    Direlord:  Direlords manipulate the essence of living things.  They prefer to steal valuable lifeblood from their foes, but will sacrifice their pets for a surge of power when needed.

    Bloodletter:  Able to regulate the bloodflow of both allies and victims, Direlords trained in the arts of Bloodletter can shift the tide of battle by harnessing the essence of blood.

    • Strangulate:  Reduce the effectiveness of heals on others by cutting off their circulation.
    • Crimson Tempest:  Equalize the health pool of yourself and an ally.  (Can be used to save a squishy by sacrificing your HP, or save yourself by tapping into the HP of an ally.)
    • Devour Vitae:  Feast on your enemies.  (Lifetap ability that can also be used on corpses for a more potent heal)
    • Bloodlust:  Initiate a surge of lifetap procs for your group.

    Nebulous:  Protect yourself and others by consuming the essence of darkness and dispatching it in the form of calculated shadows or void pockets.  Direlords train in the arts of Nebulous can craft opportune blackouts.

    • Shadowstep:  Force a missed attack on your shadow.
    • Gloom:  Channel darkness and cast shade on the battiefield, demoralizing foes and reducing their stats.
    • Void Aura:  Blind an enemy with pitch blackness.  (Single target blind, reduces melee accuracy)
    • Twisted Nethers:  Unleash the claws of the netherworld, impairing the movement speed of any enemy caught in their grasp.

    Rites of Passage:  Direlords can learn to increase their resistances vs poison and disease by collecting samples of "pure blood" that can be found around the world of Terminus.  This blood does not always take on a liquid form, but once analyzed, Direlords can imbue powerful antibiotics into their bloodstream.  While they can never grow truly impervious to poison or disease, well seasoned Direlords can offset a great deal of their effects by manipulating their very own toxin immunities to their favor.

     

    DruidDruids wield the power of nature and shapeshifting  --  they can call upon the elements themselves or even defy the laws of nature with their spells. 

    WardenDraw upon the lifeblood of the planet beneath your feet and use it's excellent power to nourish your allies, entangle your foes, or shapeshift yourself into one of the many sentient beings that form the pack of natural order.

    • Regrowth:  Extended duration HoT with increased effectiveness for the first few ticks depending on how low your allies current health is.
    • Shapeshift:  Allows the druid to take the form of a wolf, bear or dryad, each with their own unique spell boosting flavors.  (Wolf helps with movement speed / offensive utility  --  Bear helps with max HP / defensive utility  --  Dryad is the healer form that sacrifices group utility for pure healing throughput.)
    • Entanglement:  Root a single enemy, but also create a medium sized AoE effect around that target that slows the movement speed of nearby foes.
    • Portal:  Bend space and time by opening a portal that allows comrades to warp to various druid rings in Terminus.  (They must be attuned with each druid ring prior to being able to warp there.)

    Tempest Whether it's conjuring storms or calming them, Tempests' are able to wield the dual powers of the elements; each element can be toggled to either offensive or defensive, granting these wielders of weather a diverse kit to pull from in any situation.

    • Earth: Defensive - Barkskin - (Single target AC buff) Offensive - Weight of the World - (Heavy movement speed slow, single target)
    • Fire: Defensive - Heating Up - (Group Fire Resist/Acclimation Buff) Offensive - Heat Exhaustion - (AoE Cast Speed Debuff)
    • Wind: Defensive - Aery Gust - (Beneficial Spell Casting Speed Buff) Offensive - Crippling Winds - (AoE casting speed Debuff)
    • Water: Defensive - Roaring Tide - (Water/Ice Resist/Acclimation Buff) Offensive - Drown - (Single Target Reuse Speed Debuff)

    Rites of Passage:  Druids can attune themselves to various Druid Rings spread around the world of Terminus.  The power of each druid ring has an impact zonewide, granting the druid a minor increase toward permanent HP/Mana regen.  This effect stacks but only works while in zones that contain a druid ring that you are attuned to.

     

    Enchanter Enchanters beguile friend and foe alike; inspiring allies with powerful enchantments or using manipulation of the mind to incapacitate their enemies.  They are able to command the will of lesser beings  --  whether that's charming/confusing an enemy or controlling conjured contraptions.

    Spellbinder These rapid-fire casters are capable of unleashing an array of different spells onto the battlefield.  Enchanters trained in the arts of Spellbinder have the ability to chain-cast and inflict large-scale change into their surroundings.

    • Temporal Surge:  Imbue an ally with a temporary attack speed buff.  Can be cast on multiple allies, but diminishing returns do come into play.  (Total buff isn't shared, but effectiveness is reduced slightly for each additional ally that benefits.)
    • Shroud of the Mind:  Impose a layer of mental clouding into the minds of your foes.  This is a debuff/DoT that lowers mental/arcane resist and deals mental damage.  It lasts for 4 seconds, stacks up to 5 times, and the duration is refreshed for each application.)
    • Power Displacement:  Dispel various temporary buffs from enemies.  For every buff that is successfully dispelled, the enchanter is granted a slight boost to their recast speed.
    • Ethereal Chains:  Cast a 12 second Debuff/DoT on an enemy.  Debuff decreases movement speed/casting speed.  If any mob is under the effect of ethereal chains and also reaches 5 stacks of Shroud of the Mind, the enchanter steals a portion of their mana.  (Gains a minimum of X amount of mana if their target doesn't use mana as a resource.)

    PhantasmistWreak havoc in the minds of your foes by forcefully confusing them and inciting frustration as a result.  Enchanters trained in the arts of Phantasmist use illusions and coercive mind play to bend the will of their enemies.

    • Mirage:  Create a mirage of an ally that will follow them for 15 seconds.  If the ally is auto-attacked by an enemy, the mirage will disappear and the ally will avoid the attack.  This will frustrate the mob, generating X amount of threat toward the real character that the mirage was intended to represent.
    • Hallucination:  Cause your enemy to hallucinate to the point where they cannot distinguish friend from foe.  Their auto attacks are now randomized, but prefer targets that are close.
    • Illusion:  Cast an illusion on target ally that can temporarily change their race.  This could prevent certain races from being KoS (if you have a qualifying illusion unlocked) but would not have any effect on quest access or anything else significant.  It would be designed to allow players to travel safely in areas they otherwise would not be able to.  There would be no NPC-Race illusions that allow circumvention of content.)
    • Deceptive Arm:  Single target spell that can be cast on an ally.  Ally is granted an illusory arm that will cause foes to think they are being attacked from an additional source.  For each successful auto attack, the enemy would suffer mental damage that would be credited to the enchanter.

    Rites of Passage:  Enchanters are capable of leveraging an irrefutable charm by seeking out and successfully charming various inanimate golems that populate the world of Terminus.  Immune to the actual charm spell, these golems must be subdued in 1v1 combat to earn their affection.  For each golem conquered, the enchanter gains increased control over their charm spell, and can manifest a more powerful golem.  (Cannot use charm/golem pet simultaneously)

     

    Monkhttps://pantheonmmo.com/newsletter/2017_may_intro/
    style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">Body:  (See link above.)
    Soul:  (See link above.)

    Rites of Passage:  Monks can learn the forgotten arts of various fighting styles by seeking out master trainers spread across the world of Terminus.  These trainers instruct monks how to fully harness their inner chi and attain new levels of individual strength and melee prowess.  A well versed monk has a much easier time beating his foes into submission as each new attack or counterattack learned opens up a new link in their chain of potentially lethal combos.

     

    Necromancer:  Necromancers practice a variety of dark arts that allow them to defy the laws of life and death.  Macabre rituals grant them temporary passage to an otherworldly plane where they communicate with the deceased, bargaining with promises of power, revenge, or justice.


    Lich:  Using your mind as a vessel and your body as a tap into the spiritual plane, you can work out deals with fallen souls.  Necromancers trained in the arts of Lich are bound to their unholy phylactery.

    • Abomination:  Manifest a restless soul into a grotesque creature that will obey your every command.  They are fueled by a desire for revenge, and remain convinced that your bidding will help them get it.
    • Reanimate:  Imbue temporary life into a recently fallen corpse with whispers of power.  Once reanimated, the corpse knows that it's time is fleeting, inciting a panic induced rage that causes them to attack wildly at anything nearby.
    • Dark Passage:  Promise redemption to a fallen comrade, but with great cost.  Allows the Lich to summon the corpse of an ally, but this can only be done at graveyards.  Least effective rez spell in game in regards to removing any XP penalty.
    • Phylactery:  Upon death, the Lich is wisped away into their phylactery, usually concealed within a compartment of their robe.  After 10 seconds, they can channel their energy and resummon their physical being.  (Cheat Death ability, similar to FD except it automatically triggers upon death.  The phylactery is a non-aggro tome that cannot move and has high magic resist.  Long cooldown, 2 hours+)


    Contagion:  Impregnate your enemies with seeds of corruptive growth and radial toxicity.  Necromancers trained in the arts of Contagion find purpose in chaos and thrive in it's exploitation.

    • Curse:  Scourge the will of an enemy by granting them a taste of infernal power; causing them to pulse noxious damage in the area around them for every attempted melee attack or spell cast.
    • Infestation:  Pervade the core of your foe with malignant energy, causing significant unholy damage over time.  If an enemy dies while under this effect, it will spread to a nearby victim (with DoT fully refreshed) and gain increased duration/damage up to 5 stacks.
    • Pestilence:  Cause all corpses in the area (that you or your group received kill credit for) to explode, inflicting 5% of max HP damage to any enemy struck.  (All corpses explode but only a maximum of 5 will deal any damage.  This damage can be capped rather than percentage based for named encounters.  Would also make sense to add level and solo/group/raid variables to prevent exploitation.)
    • Immolation:  Sacrifice your pet and up to 3 nearby enemies will be infected with both Curse and Infestation.   (If already affected by Infestation it will advance to the stack level.)

    Rites of Passage:  Necromancers find solace in death and so they seek out various graveyards that are spread around the world of Terminus.  Each graveyard contains multiple spirits that the necromancer can summon (1 for each tombstone) that the Necromancer must defeat in combat.  One of them (always random) will grant the Necromancer the ability to bind themself to that graveyard.  (Binding to a graveyard would function similarly to "Return Home" but this ability would be separate and have it's own recast.)

     

    Paladin:
    Sentinel:
    Oathsworn:

     

    RangerRangers thrive in open space but won't hesitate to leverage their cunning and perception in tight quarters.  Their combination of stealth, tracking, survival, and herbalism pack the utility of a swiss army knife while braving the wilds ... but it's their proficiency with the bow that strikes fear (and death) into the hearts of their adversaries.


    ForesterYour wisdom of all things nature allows you to communicate with the planet in ways that the untrained eye and ear could never comprehend.  Speak with the trees and the wind, and harvest the nourishing properties of the earth around you.  Rangers trained in the arts of Forester can harness the environment by calling upon the animal whose very instinct was forged within it, allowing them to share in the evolution of natural order.

    • Herbalism:  Identify and harvest natural resources that can be used to create makeshift tools, salves, reagents, or companion snacks.  (Various regen/curing elements, fletching material, toxins, armor/weapon modifications, and player/pet consumables.)
    • Camouflage:  Blend in with the environment, allowing you to avoid visual and scent detection methods.  (Avoiding audial detection is a core ranger ability.)
    • Advanced Tracking:  Observe various trails by following the story that nature shares with you.  Creatures that are successfully tracked are open to pre-emptive bonus damage.
    • Animal Companion:  Summon a companion that can provide various degrees of utility depending on the situation.

    Deadeye:  Picking foes apart from range is the tried and true approach of those who have mastered the bow and arrow.  Using pinpoint accuracy and refined technique can render your foes vulnerable, but finding the right angle and positioning can be tricky.  Rangers trained in the arts of Deadeye can inflict very high damage under the right circumstances  --  whether it's launching a rain of arrows into a calculated radius, a flurry of arrows in the same direction, or a single devastating headshot ... enemies are terrified of being caught in their gaze.

    • Volley:  Let loose a hail of arrows that will damage all creatures within a medium sized radius.
    • Barrage:  Temporarily modify your bow to allow a multitude of shots in rapid succession.  (Movement is decreased significantly for duration of this channeled effect)
    • Cripple:  High damage attack that impairs the movement speed, avoidance, attack speed, or accuracy of your opponent, depending on your range and angle relative to the target.
    • Headshot:  Massive attack that does bonus damage based on available health.  (The higher their current HP % is, the larger the bonus.)

    Rites of Passage:  Rangers can enhance their survival techniques by seeking out various earthly trials scattered around the world of Terminus.  Each trial is meant to test their endurance and cunning, requiring them to tap into their surroundings in order to survive through the night.  Each trial will reward the ranger with a new foraging technique, companion to summon, or tool that further refines their mastery of the bow and arrow.

     

    RogueRogues are the masters of stealth, swindle, and improvisation.  They use tactical precision to vanquish their foes, handy toolkits to change the tide of battle, and experienced eyes/hands to minimize danger and reward deeper adventure.

    AssassinMake quick work of your foes by striking when and where they least expect it.  Rogues trained in the arts of Assassin punish their enemies with excruciating attacks, invasive maneuvers, and hemorrhage inducing toxins.

    • Execute:  Lethal attack that does bonus damage based on missing health.  (The lower their current HP % is, the more damage this does.)
    • Open Vein:  Expose a point of weakness, causing target to bleed (DoT) and take increased damage from piercing/slashing attacks for the duration.
    • Anticoagulant:  Lace your blades with a temporary poison that applies a debuff that increases the effectiveness of bleed attacks against target (duration and damage)  --  if the rogue focuses 10 consecutive attacks on a target under the effect of this debuff, it instantly takes bonus true (unmitigated) damage.
    • Apply Poison:  Apply a hemotoxic poison to the weapon of a single ally.  This will allow your ally to proc bleed effects (DoT) onto their enemies.  Any threat obtained from this damage is granted to that player.

    BlackhandDebilitate your enemies through semi-selective disablement.  Rogues trained in the arts of Blackhand invade the life force of their enemies through a combination of neurotoxic chemicals and precise, crippling attacks.

    • Void Hand:  Your primary hand and weapon are fused together with a shadowy void, allowing you to penetrate armor from the inside, causing it to become brittle.  (Rogue penetrates 20% of AC while buff is active, target enemy also suffers a 10% AC debuff that lasts for 15 seconds.)
    • Acidic Flask:  Hurl a flask (Ranged) that explodes upon impact (short proximity AoE)  --  enemies affected will have a random chance to become blinded, snared (movement speed), or slowed (attack speed)
    • Nerve Gas:  You wisp around with an open vial in-hand, leaving behind a toxic trail of nerve gas that deals poison damage and enfeebles those caught in the wake.  (Rogue leaves a toxic trail (10 second buff) wherever they walk that persists on ground for 3 seconds, any enemies caught within it (or that walk into it) are dealt poison damage and suffer a random enfeeblement debuff)  Enfeeblements:  Block/Parry Reduction  --  Pierce/Slash/Crush Reduction  --  Attack Speed Reduction  --  Noxious Resistance Reduction
    • Baneful Smoke:  Puncture your enemy in the lung with a smoke-infused attack, releasing baneful smoke into the cavity.  (Baneful smoke will suffocate an enemy if applied from the front, reducing any regenerative effects.  If applied from the rear, the enemy suffers internal exhaustion, causing the next 3 melee attacks against them (from any source)  that would have otherwise missed, to be successful.

    Rites of Passage:  Rogues are fueled by the desire to explore and discover, and make it their mission to unlock the chests that hold magical skeleton keys found throughout the lands of Terminus.  For every key they find, they gain +1 luck.  (Luck is a rogue-only stat that is rolled for disarming traps, unlocking chests/doors with a standard key, and finding rogue-only consumables from chests/corpses)

     

    Shaman:
    Oracle:
    Thaumaturge:

     

    Summoner:
    Conjuror:
    Evoker:

     

    WarriorWarriors train for forceful interaction, resolved to challenge those who threaten or oppose them.  They sacrifice themselves for the good of others.

    MartialReveal yourself tactically and lay waste to those who dare to advance.  Warriors trained in the arts of Martial are capable of withstanding the brunt force of their foes while also maintaining a surreal state of mind.

    • Maneuver:  Grants a temporary boost to avoidance that incrementally diminishes per successful dodge/parry/riposte until the effect wears off.
    • Own Fear:  Two-way ability that shares cooldown.  Defensive - (Gain temporary immunity to fear)  Offensive - (Single target fear, has a chance to paralyze that scales based on your relative level compared to the enemy.)
    • Iron Will:  Grants increased threat generation and prevents all applications of stun, slow (attack speed and movement speed) and paralysis for a limited time.  (Can also be used to break free of these same kinds of CC.)
    • Endure:  Focus your strength into your shield, absorbing the next attack that would hit for more than 20% of your max HP.


    Warlord Command the battlefield using a combination of physical presence and combat fervor.  Warriors trained in the arts of Warlord are able to react to danger and reduce the attack speed of themselves and nearby foes.

    • Battle Trance:  Grants bonus attack speed and threat generation for every successful melee attack against a new opponent.  (Caps at 5 and reset back to 1 on the next attack after 5)
    • Intercept:  Rush to the aid of an ally, absorbing 35% of the next attack against them and increasing threat generation toward their attacker.
    • Warcry:  Grants a temporary increase to all combat stats (str/sta/agi/dex/con) relative to the amount of damage taken in the last 5 seconds.
    • Capture:  Claim the immediate vicinity around you as your own, rooting and lowering the attack speed of yourself and all enemies in range.

    Rites of Passage:  Warriors crave conquest and adventure and so they seek out various victory mounds that are spread throughout the lands of Terminus.  For every mound they plant their banner in, their confidence grows, increasing their max HP.

     

    WizardWizards are powerful sorcerers who spend countless hours perfecting their mastery of arcane magic.  While relished by many for their sublime dedication, it would be wise to avoid inciting their fury ... the consequences are of epic proportion.

    ArcanistYou must balance the desire to sunder foes with cosmic vengeance alongside the ramifications of overkill.  Wizards trained in the arts of Arcanist can cast spells of unimaginable power but it's imperative that they manage the potency of that which is unleashed.

    • Fusion:  Blast a targeted area with great force, increasing the damage (and mana cost) for every enemy within radius.
    • Disintegrate:  Channel a fiery beam of disintegration that deals bonus damage based on missing health and critical bonus damage while they are below 25%.  For each 1% of damage dealt while the NPC is in critical health (-25%) the wizard has a small chance of losing a chunk of mana and becoming locked out of their spell tree for 10 seconds.
    • Overclock:  Passive ability that triggers when the wizard reaches 0 mana that instantly restores 20% of their MP.  After 30 seconds they deal 20% reduced damage for 5 minutes.
    • Teleport:  Summon a teleportation portal.  (Each cast increases the cooldown of this spell but it resets daily.)

    ElementalistYour mastery of the elements allows you to leverage a diverse spell tree that centers around opportunistic upheaval.  Wizards trained in the arts of Elementalist can exploit a variety of weaknesses or channel the matter of their environment to create surges of natural energy.

    • Shift Matter:  Harness the elements of the world around you to change the damage properties of your next 3 spell casts.  (If you are in a cold climate/atmosphere, your next 3 spells will deal cold damage.)
    • Harvest Environment:  If the base elemental property of your spell matches the environment it's being cast in, you will deal bonus damage.  (Passive Buff  --  Spells affected by Shift Matter do not trigger this bonus.)
    • Climate Distortion:  Conjure an elemental storm that persists for 30 seconds, dealing minor damage in a large area.  This spell also changes the atmosphere around you to that of your choosing.  (Can summon a cold atmosphere in the desert, or a wind atmosphere while underground.)
    • Metamorphosis:  Your corporeal form adapts to the environment around you, temporarily changing your mana color to a universal grey.  (Temporary buff that allows the elementalist to cast any/all abilities on their bar, regardless of mana color.  Mana is still drained but it's from the standard pool.)

    Rites of Passage:  Wizards pour their heart and soul into their studies and so they seek out a variety of tranquil chambers spread across the world of Terminus.  For every chamber they find, their knowledge of the arcane and the elements continues to grow, increasing their max intelligence.


    This post was edited by oneADseven at February 23, 2018 2:46 PM PST
    • 3237 posts
    February 17, 2018 4:39 PM PST

    Added Ranger.  Will eventually add some core abilities for each class to better demonstrate consistency and role interdependence.  Is it possible that each class will have 2 iconic abilities?  What kind of impact would colored mana have on any of this?  I will continue to modify the list as time goes on more information about the combat system is confirmed.  As was mentioned in the OP, this is nothing but a theory crafting exercise ... please feel free to respond with any comments or suggestions!


    This post was edited by oneADseven at February 17, 2018 5:09 PM PST
    • 120 posts
    February 17, 2018 6:46 PM PST

    Dual spec is fine, dual role is not. One role per class please. Let's not homogenize the game right from release. I'm sure it will happen eventually, it always does, but at least let me enjoy vanilla before you give in to the whiners.


    This post was edited by Xbachs at February 17, 2018 6:50 PM PST
    • 3237 posts
    February 17, 2018 7:22 PM PST

    Could you elaborate on that Xbachs?  Based on the reveals that we have seen so far, all classes fill at least two roles although "support" is kind of a gray area.  When you look at monks, though, they actually have 3  --  Melee DPS / Off-Tank / Pulling Utility.  If what you are saying is that you wouldn't want to see paladins being able to flex as both a primary healer or tank then I absolutely agree.  What I am open to, however, is certain classes being able to fulfill an "off" role like monks can.  If you think any of the examples I listed are crossing the line please share your thoughts and be specific.


    This post was edited by oneADseven at February 17, 2018 9:22 PM PST
    • 111 posts
    February 18, 2018 4:10 AM PST

    im all for specialication but i'm not a fan of the dual spec as you mentioned above.

    i think pantheon could make good results a lot easier:

    with different gear and with limited skill slots which are not changeable in combat.

    example1: warrior going for pure strength gear and no stamina (hps), taking a big 2 hander instead of a shild and using offensive skills. here we go: a okish DPS instead of a pure tank. 

    example2: instead of putting all his healing-skills into his bar, a druid take AE-root, single target root, pazify, a dot, (just ideas) and is more into CC because they already have a cleric who want so heal but lack on cc side.

    example 3: rogue A puts on his skillbar all his dot-skills and is more about substain, while rogue B uses all kind of burst cds and high dmg skills (with cds) for bursting down specific targets.

    example 4: a monk using + dodge/stamina gear could be a valable offtank and perhaps a better puller than his monk companion who went with full dps gear/skills.

    background is ESO. you could perform quite different in that game depending on your skill set and item-layout. no, i dont want pantheon to be like ESO. i'm just pointing out how much specialisation is possible with skills/gear alone.

     

    • 3852 posts
    February 18, 2018 7:19 AM PST

    I am strongly in favor of multiple options for character customization as long as they do not, repeat NOT, allow the character to play a different role. 

    A tank with one customization tree that maximizes armor and another that allows tanking with weaker armor by giving a self-heal (not good enough to replace the need for a healer, but supplemental to a healer) would not bother me. A ranged DPS class with one customization increasing the damage dealt and another increasing mobility would not bother me. 

    A customization (note I have not used the term specialization to avoid the connotations that have built up over the years) that would allow a DPS class to tank or a healer to do DPS as good as a true DPS class, or a tank class to be the healer .....those would be anathma.

    • 108 posts
    February 18, 2018 10:09 AM PST

    Ranger: An exceptional outdoorsman well versed in ranged and melee weaponry. A skilled wilderness survivalists able to Track, Hide, and Hunt without peer.

    Wardens are mystical protectors of wild places often springing from ambush to destroy their prey.

    A. Duel wielding specialists- Sword and hand axe, Scimitar and Scimitar, Battle axe and Mace etc.

    B. Nature related enchantments and remedies

    C. Camouflage experts able to mask their passage through natural environments.

    D. Throwing weapon experts. Throwing axe, Javelin. high damage but very long reload or limited ammo.

    E. skilled in parry and evasion.

    F. skilled use of medium armor especially keeping it quiet with use of padding and clothing.

    Pathfinders are deadly hunters of the wilderness able to track over any surface and be unseen while doing it.

    A. Master Archers without peer- all types of bows and slings.

    B. trained experts with spear, quarterstaff and woodsman axe

    C. Uncanny Stealth which restricts them to light armor.

    D. Animal companion- helps them track, hunt, scout

    E. Master Trackers

    F. Improved Evasion