Thoughts on something like this?
Crazzie said:I agree this would be new to me, and MMO games. Not that i have really experienced this before with a guild raid or groups. Would make it unique. We had a few levels in EQ but this is much deeper.
Suggestion forum though? good one.
Deep enough to become Gandalf the White.
I love the idea of multilevel dungeons, the further you go the harder it gets and also the more troublesome (adventurous) the corpse runs will get.
I loved the feel of Tower of Frozen Shadow in Velious, so many levels filled with increasing danger.
If there was a dungeon like an inverted ToFS I would live in there.
I'm ok with it getting so hard that you are effectively level locked as you get lower. It's a good concept. I suspect the launch environment wouldn't go too hardcore on this idea, as we will have a vast world to explore, but I do like the concept of periodically updating its depths with little micro hubs inside, while maintaining that it is optional exploratory content.
This is something that some games have done poorly, but Pantheon has every chance of doing right, along with all the other things.
This would NOT be instanced.
DeviantFox said:Please please please please please please.
Can we have a 15 floor group oriented catacomb below one of the cities? I know this is tropey, but I would love the crap out of this. Maybe one that periodically expands as patches go forward. =D
That is all.
This idea is soooooo good! Yes please.
If it got too out of control distance wise, you could make keys to travel gates that would port you one level above the one you were aiming at.....so you'd always have to fight through the previous tier of content before moving forward. Perhaps a good compromise to having to enter the beginning every time when it started to approach ludicrous depth =)
oneADseven said:Thoughts on something like this?
You lost me at "you start naked". =( /hugs
Final Fantasy 11 Online had two city dungeon systems, both of which were amazing fun.
1) Dynamis - Plunged the city into a shroud of darkness and the local beast tribe (for that region) invaded the city and you battled your way through the city at night with all the NPCs hiding in their houses as you purged the city clean. Unique mobs everywhere and HARD monsters with unique (VERY valueable) drops. This was an instanced raid of up to 64 participants with a cost (of in game currency) to purchase the "spawning" item which provides a useful currency sink.
2) Beseiged - The local beast tribes (FFXI had 3 but could be more or less) built up "power" over the course of a the day and based on mobs killed through EXP parties/open world Named Notorious Monsters killed it would eventually peak and they would invade the city. The city in this instance was split in half with a big door protecting one half of the city but when you entered the other half of the city you could join the defence of the city. This was literally a free to join dungeon with a about 500 people all defending the city in a massive all out brawl with player driven co-ordinatation and a huge amount of fun.
Both these ideas could work amazingly well for Pantheon.
I loved Dynamis. Never experienced Besieged but it sounds awesome. I also really liked BCNM's and the "NM/HNM" spawn rotation/loot rarity in general. I hear Palace of the Dead is pretty awesome in FFXIV but I think it could be done much better in Pantheon. The 100 floor dungeon crawl from Lufia 2 has stood the test of time (Many people continue to play it on ROM to re-experience the glory of this dungeon. It was the star attraction of the game and provided a level of depth/challenge/progression that has been unrivaled by any other RPG since. Pull this off in an MMO and you have winner winner chicken dinner ... FFXIV attempted this with PoD, but it fell short in some areas ... observe what they did and remaster it with a Pantheon twist.
cele said:I love the idea of multilevel dungeons, the further you go the harder it gets and also the more troublesome (adventurous) the corpse runs will get.
I loved the feel of Tower of Frozen Shadow in Velious, so many levels filled with increasing danger.
If there was a dungeon like an inverted ToFS I would live in there.
Hell yeah. The risk-vs-reward factor in this dungeon was balanced well. I loved the increasing difficulty with levels, and the "keying" aspect of the tower. I thought Kurn's Tower and the Estate of Unrest were other areas that were done well, with varying levels of difficulty.
Attach Guk to Old Seb and you have a pretty decent example of a deep dungeon that isn't FF14's PotD, which is nothing more than repeating one floor as many times as you can before your character dies or you die of boredom.
Another example would be to take something like Kedge Keep, attach Siren's Grotto to the bottom, and then attach Plane of Water below that.
Dungeons, same as overworld environments, can simply be chained together and similarly themed.
Venjenz said:Dungeons, same as overworld environments, can simply be chained together and similarly themed.
True ... but if this game is anything like what we've seen in the live footage, going too deep/too big might present interesting play time/travel constraints. I love 3-4 hour runs, but if the dungeons get too big, you'd be talking more time than that.
xtnpd said:True ... but if this game is anything like what we've seen in the live footage, going too deep/too big might present interesting play time/travel constraints. I love 3-4 hour runs, but if the dungeons get too big, you'd be talking more time than that.
Which is why every deep dungeon should have safe/camp spots, like all the old EQ1 big dungeons did. You camp there and pick back up where you left off. Veeshan's Peak jumps immediately to mind. It was a zone that you couldn't gate out of, had really hard fights (for its time) and took a long time. So there were safe camp spots people used to camp a raid out and then relog the next day. In a group centric, old school MMO...instancing and giving people quick in/out "grab some quick exp and run" options runs counter to the design goal, eh?
So there should be a commitment of time that there's no backing out of. No "you made it this far, so you can teleport right back to this spot next time" option. One thing that made EQ1 raids so cool was the clear from zone to raid stuff every single time. You always had to refight your way from the beginning to the boss. Which is why the bosses staed awesome, scary, and daunting. There was more than just a gear/skill check...there was an organization and commitment check as well.
Deep dungeon should be just like that. You go in and can progress down, but until you hit some serious commitment milestone, it's back to the last starting point for you.
I am 100% behind this.
Venjenz said:xtnpd said:True ... but if this game is anything like what we've seen in the live footage, going too deep/too big might present interesting play time/travel constraints. I love 3-4 hour runs, but if the dungeons get too big, you'd be talking more time than that.
Which is why every deep dungeon should have safe/camp spots, like all the old EQ1 big dungeons did. You camp there and pick back up where you left off. Veeshan's Peak jumps immediately to mind. It was a zone that you couldn't gate out of, had really hard fights (for its time) and took a long time. So there were safe camp spots people used to camp a raid out and then relog the next day. In a group centric, old school MMO...instancing and giving people quick in/out "grab some quick exp and run" options runs counter to the design goal, eh?
So there should be a commitment of time that there's no backing out of. No "you made it this far, so you can teleport right back to this spot next time" option. One thing that made EQ1 raids so cool was the clear from zone to raid stuff every single time. You always had to refight your way from the beginning to the boss. Which is why the bosses staed awesome, scary, and daunting. There was more than just a gear/skill check...there was an organization and commitment check as well.
Deep dungeon should be just like that. You go in and can progress down, but until you hit some serious commitment milestone, it's back to the last starting point for you.
I love the idea of a deep dungeon that requires you to start back at square one each time. I think an additional way to combat the 3-4 hour play time restrictions would be to have multiple zoneouts like Sebillis did, with the knowledge that you would have to start back at the beginning of the dungeon upon reentry.
DeviantFox said:Can we have a 15 floor group oriented catacomb below one of the cities? I know this is tropey, but I would love the crap out of this. Maybe one that periodically expands as patches go forward. =D
That is all.
While your idea for a dungeon is a good one, it is still just 1 dungeon below a city. when I think 'deep dungeon' I'm thinking of a dungeon so far down you have to go through multiple other dungeons just to get there. Look back at Upper/Lower Guk as a start point. Now add more dungeons below Lower Guk which are even more dangerous and much much further from the safety of the surface. What was great about Upper/Lower Guk is you could go from something like lvl 10 to level 40 and never leave the dungeons..you just kept moving deeper and deeper.
Venjenz said:xtnpd said:True ... but if this game is anything like what we've seen in the live footage, going too deep/too big might present interesting play time/travel constraints. I love 3-4 hour runs, but if the dungeons get too big, you'd be talking more time than that.
Which is why every deep dungeon should have safe/camp spots, like all the old EQ1 big dungeons did. You camp there and pick back up where you left off. Veeshan's Peak jumps immediately to mind. It was a zone that you couldn't gate out of, had really hard fights (for its time) and took a long time. So there were safe camp spots people used to camp a raid out and then relog the next day. In a group centric, old school MMO...instancing and giving people quick in/out "grab some quick exp and run" options runs counter to the design goal, eh?
So there should be a commitment of time that there's no backing out of. No "you made it this far, so you can teleport right back to this spot next time" option. One thing that made EQ1 raids so cool was the clear from zone to raid stuff every single time. You always had to refight your way from the beginning to the boss. Which is why the bosses staed awesome, scary, and daunting. There was more than just a gear/skill check...there was an organization and commitment check as well.
Deep dungeon should be just like that. You go in and can progress down, but until you hit some serious commitment milestone, it's back to the last starting point for you.
Sure. with ya 100%. Kinda my point. Risk /vs Reward.