Forums » The Druid

How to make Druid healing unique

    • 41 posts
    May 3, 2017 3:59 PM PDT

    This is just an idea I'd like to share that I think would be an interesting way to heal as Druid without reinventing the wheel.

    We've seen now that Shamans make up for their weaker healing output by slowing the enemy, so less overall damage comes out, and they have some meaningul buffs to boost party damage that way. They also get a pet that they (don't seem to) have to worry about microing to add to DPS.

    Assuming Druid will work in a similar way - utilizing unique to Druid abilities to make up for weaker healing, I think it would be cool, and fit with the play style if they handled healing like this:

    Druids will specialize in HoT (heal over time) spells. These will be casted at the start of the fight, and will free up the Druid to DPS along with the group. They wont nuke like Wizards, but they'll have some mana effective bursty spells. To supplement the HoTs, there will be some expensive, decent but not great, spot heals to compensate for enemy burst (this is the weakness of the Druid) along with the usual cleanses.

    Druids will have more disables then Shaman (things like snares, roots, and magical fairy sleeping dust!), with less buffs/debuffs to lay down on enemies. This would be for class diversity/identity.

    For buffs we will see a damage reflect "thorns" type spell to cast on the tank, along with the ability to alter the parties acclimation locally. IE you drop a zone of Fire acclimation +2 that increases damage from fire based spells/skill and reduces fire damage taken (while increasing water damage taken).

    With HoT's being the main heal style, the added DPS from the damage reflect, and the added damage from nukes/buffing party damage through acclimation, you'll have a fairly active sytle of healing that requires you to make the most of your abilities to drop enemies quicker - high risk/reward.

    If this wound up being overpowered, maybe the HoTs could work by being full strength for the first few ticks, then seeing a decreased potency over time. This would further encourage the fast paced, offence is the best defense type play style. 

    I feel this would give Druid it's own unique healing/play style, different enough from Shaman and Cleric. What do you think?

     

    • 455 posts
    May 3, 2017 5:35 PM PDT

    It's interesting and actually i thought of HoT's in another topic just early today, and i think it would work, plus is certain fights HoT"s could be very handy, granted i think these HoT's should have a short cooldown so you can't put all of Hot's and everybody in your grp and such but definately short enough to where you are a viable healer, and i say instead of Nuke's they get DoT's this would help them do damage and heal at the same time, with maybe some fast casting nukes with low damage output, but obviously make them have less DoT's and do less damage than a Necro so they aren't filling in a DPS/Heal slot in one class

    • 10 posts
    May 5, 2017 4:17 PM PDT

    When I think Druid i see HoT's, some quik heals, Portals, Thorns, HP Regen buffs, snares/roots and decent debuffs to align a target with fire/cold/earth w/ complementing direct damage spells.  Maybe a couple DoT's but nothing like the Necro or Shamans capability.

    • 14 posts
    May 5, 2017 6:05 PM PDT

    the way i envision druids is bit diffrenet , i dont see them as pure healers they are hybrids , u can deal damage , off tank a bit like short duration aspects power , crowd control , Summoning beasts to fight beside him , i know this part might be conflicting with beastmaster , empowring himself and players around him with nature blessings , buff them with lets say 5~10% more armor as a Barkskin. debuff eneimes with Throny vines , as if they move or do any skill they will get bleeding damage.

     

    but as pure healers i do not see them being that its way against thier lore as druids .. 

    • 9 posts
    May 6, 2017 7:32 AM PDT

    I think HoTs could be a good idea.  Perhaps paired with something that prevents or redirects damage spikes?  I'm thinking instead of a barkskin or stoneskin just giving plus AC, could it intstead act like a partial rune?  Something like "Prevent X damage on each hit until Y has been absorbed."  This would require you to pay attention to how much damage the tank is taking so you know when to refresh and would lower the overall damage coming into the tank in the first place making your HoTs more likely to keep up. 

    Alternatively if they go the route of drain vitality from your enemies and into your friends I will not be one bit upset.  Vanguard was the only game I didn't main a druid and that was only because blood mages were so freaking awesome.


    This post was edited by Taldaas at May 6, 2017 7:37 AM PDT
    • 237 posts
    May 6, 2017 8:39 AM PDT

    I like your vision for the Druid's healing capacity. I too think the Druid should be less "Priest Type" and more of a hybrid caster. I love the idea of initializing a confrontation with HoTs and some atmosphere/acclimation preparatory spells, transitioning into a DPS/Utility role during the middle of the battle, and finishing up with some quick, low impact bursty heals if necessary.

    Great vision, I hope VR can redefine Druids to really place them in their own unique space as casters. (When will the Druid class be revealed!? Ahhhh!)


    This post was edited by Syntro at May 6, 2017 8:39 AM PDT
    • 14 posts
    May 6, 2017 10:53 AM PDT

    Syntro said:

    I like your vision for the Druid's healing capacity. I too think the Druid should be less "Priest Type" and more of a hybrid caster. I love the idea of initializing a confrontation with HoTs and some atmosphere/acclimation preparatory spells, transitioning into a DPS/Utility role during the middle of the battle, and finishing up with some quick, low impact bursty heals if necessary.

    Great vision, I hope VR can redefine Druids to really place them in their own unique space as casters. (When will the Druid class be revealed!? Ahhhh!)

     

    this really good :D

    • 316 posts
    May 6, 2017 11:36 AM PDT

    I like the idea of Thorns not just damaging the attacker, but redirecting some of the force of their attack (say taking a % of the damage of each hit completely off and using that in addition to a standard flat damage value). They would still attack as fast (so not quite like slow), their max/min hits, would just be reduced by a certain amount from what a slowed mob would be (achieving a similar result, but also it being able to be benefitted that if you had a shaman/enchanter/bard in the group to slow the effects would be synergistic and result in even more damage reduction)

    Or perhaps a Quicksand type ability, where the harder the opponent struggles, the harder it is for them to move freely.

    Everquest had a cool druid ability in the later years (DODH+) called Skin Like Reptile, It was essentially a Heal on Hit. I like the concept of that, Something you could cast on group mates, that would heal them abit as they were damaged, which would give you time to use things like your HOT's/Direct heals to bump their health back up.

    Perhaps a Cloud of Fog or Mist, that decreases the accuracy of enemies with in the area of effect.

    • 455 posts
    May 9, 2017 11:09 PM PDT

    xannanna said:

    the way i envision druids is bit diffrenet , i dont see them as pure healers they are hybrids , u can deal damage , off tank a bit like short duration aspects power , crowd control , Summoning beasts to fight beside him , i know this part might be conflicting with beastmaster , empowring himself and players around him with nature blessings , buff them with lets say 5~10% more armor as a Barkskin. debuff eneimes with Throny vines , as if they move or do any skill they will get bleeding damage.

     

    but as pure healers i do not see them being that its way against thier lore as druids .. 

    Yeah i mentioned this also in the other thread about druids just didn't put it in this thread due to it soecific talking about the heaing aspect of the class.

    • 27 posts
    May 15, 2017 6:21 PM PDT
    I think I envision a Druid differently than you guys. I would agree that they need spells to kill with, but I see a Druid as a formidable healer, not just a filler class. HoT spells are it's bread and butter for sure and I'm sure Visionary Realms will do a great job with damage shields and nature buffs. It seems to me that everyone wants the DPS . A Druid is a healer first. That jack of all trades mentality cuts our legs out from under us as healers in my opinion. If you want the DPS ... play a scout.
    • 455 posts
    May 17, 2017 11:05 AM PDT

    Armyguy0 said: I think I envision a Druid differently than you guys. I would agree that they need spells to kill with, but I see a Druid as a formidable healer, not just a filler class. HoT spells are it's bread and butter for sure and I'm sure Visionary Realms will do a great job with damage shields and nature buffs. It seems to me that everyone wants the DPS . A Druid is a healer first. That jack of all trades mentality cuts our legs out from under us as healers in my opinion. If you want the DPS ... play a scout.

    I also prefer us also staying more focused ont he healing side of things but having 2 DoTs spell lines and such wouldn't break us from that.

    • 27 posts
    May 18, 2017 8:54 AM PDT

    Riahuf22 said:

    Armyguy0 said: I think I envision a Druid differently than you guys. I would agree that they need spells to kill with, but I see a Druid as a formidable healer, not just a filler class. HoT spells are it's bread and butter for sure and I'm sure Visionary Realms will do a great job with damage shields and nature buffs. It seems to me that everyone wants the DPS . A Druid is a healer first. That jack of all trades mentality cuts our legs out from under us as healers in my opinion. If you want the DPS ... play a scout.

    I also prefer us also staying more focused ont he healing side of things but having 2 DoTs spell lines and such wouldn't break us from that.

    I totally agree. I am not trying to get rid of those kinds of spells at all. Snares, roots and DoT spells are in my opinion very druid-ish spells. I am just seeing a trend here and that is a need for everyone to DPS like a mage or scout. The jack of all trades, but master of none makes the master of any, the go to guy for class choice in a group or especially a raid. Over time, those classes require more work to balance out in a system. I could see a bard falling into this group, but not a healer. A healer in this group seems like a waste of time. Then again I have been a druid for almost all of my gaming life. I have been looking forward to this game for a long time now and would hate to be forced into a different healing role because VR doesnt think druids should be "Real" healers. I am sure thats not the case. I just know they actually listen to their community and I am seeing a trend that I don't like so much.

    • 2250 posts
    May 18, 2017 10:04 AM PDT

    Armyguy0 said:

    Riahuf22 said:

    Armyguy0 said: I think I envision a Druid differently than you guys. I would agree that they need spells to kill with, but I see a Druid as a formidable healer, not just a filler class. HoT spells are it's bread and butter for sure and I'm sure Visionary Realms will do a great job with damage shields and nature buffs. It seems to me that everyone wants the DPS . A Druid is a healer first. That jack of all trades mentality cuts our legs out from under us as healers in my opinion. If you want the DPS ... play a scout.

    I also prefer us also staying more focused ont he healing side of things but having 2 DoTs spell lines and such wouldn't break us from that.

    I totally agree. I am not trying to get rid of those kinds of spells at all. Snares, roots and DoT spells are in my opinion very druid-ish spells. I am just seeing a trend here and that is a need for everyone to DPS like a mage or scout. The jack of all trades, but master of none makes the master of any, the go to guy for class choice in a group or especially a raid. Over time, those classes require more work to balance out in a system. I could see a bard falling into this group, but not a healer. A healer in this group seems like a waste of time. Then again I have been a druid for almost all of my gaming life. I have been looking forward to this game for a long time now and would hate to be forced into a different healing role because VR doesnt think druids should be "Real" healers. I am sure thats not the case. I just know they actually listen to their community and I am seeing a trend that I don't like so much.

    Yeah that's not entirely accurate imo. I don't think you have anything to be worried about in regards to Druids being desirable. It's looking like Cleric, Shaman, and Druid will all be viable healers. They just have different methods of doing so. And that's not to say that Druids won't be able to deal ANY damage. They will. But think about the last stream we saw where the Shaman was the only healer in the group and they did fine. Like a Druid, the Shaman may not have as high sheer healing numbers as a Cleric. But there's a lot more to being a support than just healing. For example, we saw the Shaman employ a lot of abilities that significantly slowed the enemies' attack speed, thus causing the group to take less damage. In fact, in a lot of cases, I'd argue that damage prevention/mitigation is even better than damage recovery. But the point is that you are accomplishing the same goal of keeping your group members alive, but it is simply a different style because there's more to it than just always hitting a heal button. It may take a little bit more strategy using a variety of situational abilities.


    This post was edited by Bazgrim at May 18, 2017 10:05 AM PDT
    • 27 posts
    May 18, 2017 12:03 PM PDT

    Bazgrim said:

     

    Yeah that's not entirely accurate imo. I don't think you have anything to be worried about in regards to Druids being desirable. It's looking like Cleric, Shaman, and Druid will all be viable healers. They just have different methods of doing so. And that's not to say that Druids won't be able to deal ANY damage. They will. But think about the last stream we saw where the Shaman was the only healer in the group and they did fine. Like a Druid, the Shaman may not have as high sheer healing numbers as a Cleric. But there's a lot more to being a support than just healing. For example, we saw the Shaman employ a lot of abilities that significantly slowed the enemies' attack speed, thus causing the group to take less damage. In fact, in a lot of cases, I'd argue that damage prevention/mitigation is even better than damage recovery. But the point is that you are accomplishing the same goal of keeping your group members alive, but it is simply a different style because there's more to it than just always hitting a heal button. It may take a little bit more strategy using a variety of situational abilities.

    I imagine that you are right. The VR team is made up of veteran game builders. 

    I was gearing my responce towards my fellow community members more than the VR team. I have always argued for the importance of mitigating damage. In fact i would argue that most of my success as a healer over others has been because of mitigating damage. I was definately watching the live stream. I agree with your assessment. I think that the point I am trying to make is simply that the druid should have damage spells. I am sure they will do just fine when it comes to killing. There primary skillset is heals and DPS should be a much lesser concern in my opinion.

    • 873 posts
    May 18, 2017 3:45 PM PDT

    Armyguy0 said:

    I imagine that you are right. The VR team is made up of veteran game builders. 

    I was gearing my responce towards my fellow community members more than the VR team. I have always argued for the importance of mitigating damage. In fact i would argue that most of my success as a healer over others has been because of mitigating damage. I was definately watching the live stream. I agree with your assessment. I think that the point I am trying to make is simply that the druid should have damage spells. I am sure they will do just fine when it comes to killing. There primary skillset is heals and DPS should be a much lesser concern in my opinion.

     

    I can almost guarantee that they will have damage spells, and likely a strong handful of them at that. VR has basically said as much in their race/class reveal: 

     

    "Our Druids are about the cycles of nature, the dance between predator and prey. Their powers draw from the forces of nature, like Lightning, Earthquakes, Wildfires, as well as the restorative and transformative sides of Nature. Think of them less as paragons of peace and some ideal of what Nature could or should be, and rather as reflecting what Nature is. Ogres fit this space as the wolf in the weeds."

     

    So it looks like Clerics are going to be more Healing+Utility, Shaman as Healing+Buff/Debuffing, and Druid as Healing + DPS. All of course still with their own utility/buffs/debuffs/DPS/CC flavorings sprinkled in regardless of main focuses.

    • 27 posts
    May 18, 2017 5:04 PM PDT

    Iksar said:

    Armyguy0 said:

    I imagine that you are right. The VR team is made up of veteran game builders. 

    I was gearing my responce towards my fellow community members more than the VR team. I have always argued for the importance of mitigating damage. In fact i would argue that most of my success as a healer over others has been because of mitigating damage. I was definately watching the live stream. I agree with your assessment. I think that the point I am trying to make is simply that the druid should have damage spells. I am sure they will do just fine when it comes to killing. There primary skillset is heals and DPS should be a much lesser concern in my opinion.

     

    I can almost guarantee that they will have damage spells, and likely a strong handful of them at that. VR has basically said as much in their race/class reveal: 

     

    "Our Druids are about the cycles of nature, the dance between predator and prey. Their powers draw from the forces of nature, like Lightning, Earthquakes, Wildfires, as well as the restorative and transformative sides of Nature. Think of them less as paragons of peace and some ideal of what Nature could or should be, and rather as reflecting what Nature is. Ogres fit this space as the wolf in the weeds."

     

    So it looks like Clerics are going to be more Healing+Utility, Shaman as Healing+Buff/Debuffing, and Druid as Healing + DPS. All of course still with their own utility/buffs/debuffs/DPS/CC flavorings sprinkled in regardless of main focuses.

    I got all of that. Like you I have been watching this stuff closely as well. Clerics are big heals, shamans are buffs/ debuffs and druids are regen and DPS/snares/ roots ect. I am fine with all of that. I also understand that aside from reading posts, VR doesn't consult with me on any of this. If they want a high DPS healer, then it will happen. 

    I think that the vast majority of games today have made people DPS hungry. I was addressing that by saying I think it should be pretty far down on the want list for a primary healing class.

    Heal

    Buff

    Debuff

    mitigation adjustment

    crowd control such as snare or root

    damage

     

    Thank you for your post. I dont disagree with any particular point.

    • 212 posts
    July 17, 2017 2:30 PM PDT

    double post


    This post was edited by Durp at July 17, 2017 2:34 PM PDT
    • 212 posts
    July 17, 2017 2:31 PM PDT

     

    i read in eq a long time ago... before it launched .... that Druids were 75% wizards and 25% warrior. Rangers were 75% warrior and 25% wizard. Wizard wrt the ability to do damage with spells of nature.

    If this was the original vision for Druids, I can see a completely different type of Druid most are used to. I see a much more useful Druids with respect to controlling things of nature including climate mitigation and deriving power from adverse climate conditions. In dungeons, where previously Druids had a lot of abilities stripped, I would see them stronger in having new abilities to summon temporary root , rock, sand, mud monsters.

    i always wondered why Druids could do so much damage to summoned beings but not use their powers to summon nature other than lightning or hail