Forums » Pantheon Classes

Pantheon Tank Identity

    • 14 posts
    May 3, 2017 6:56 AM PDT

     

    Hey guys,

     

    I'm Can, a long time MMOer and Tanker since early EQ2 days. I've never played O.G. EQ1 due to being 6 yo but I understand the game going back and playing Project 1999.

    I've been raiding in WoW for basically every expansion, most recently being an Assistant GM for a Mythic Nighthold progression guild, along with thoroughly playing through every other MMO out there. Don't judge because I WoW, Pantheon isn't out yet!

     

    Here are my thoughts/hopes for the Panth Tanks:

     

    Warrior -     buffs (shouts?banners?)/stance abilities to switch to dual Wield for off tank and dps - Ultimate ability being a large banner (like ESO DK) or shout (WoW stampeding roar)

    Paladin -     self heal/grp heal/great CDs (LoH/Divine Intervention?)/bubble grp members - Ultimate being large grp heal or shield

    Dire Lord -  dps/cc (fears?)/self sustaining spells/pets/badass  - Ultimate ability being a nuke or a hard cc like a hook or death grip?

    *Monk -      Evasion off tank/dps/peeler and fd pulls, cc (stuns) - Ultimate being a EQ2 Tsunami type spell?

     

    It is good to be original in class design. You can only go so far though, as to spell originality, when it comes to an MMO that has a strong EQ1/Vanguard foundation.  

    I believe the classes should be balanced health, overall defense and desireability wise. I know that's obvious, but, the last thing I want from a personally highly anticipated game like this, is to level up a Paladin at launch and come to find that the meta for competitive raids require Warriors because they have the highest mit, like what happened in EQ1, etc. I realize class balancing is far from easy, and VR seems to be doing an amazing job on being aware of these past issues in other games along with being transparent with the community. This brings me hope folks. We may be saved from those game companies like Blizzard!

    *I know monks aren't going to be "tanks" in Panth but I'd prefer them to be able to off tank too (not just pull, take one hit, and let the tank take over) just as a preference. Maybe switching stances depending on the situation.
     
    Thanks for reading my coffee rant and I'll see you in Terminus! 

    This post was edited by CAN7592 at July 28, 2018 3:09 PM PDT
    • 40 posts
    June 7, 2017 12:05 PM PDT

    The entire concept of Monk evasion tanking is pretty silly idea. Why would you need a off tank in groups if you have CC, why would you need monks as off tanks on raids when you can put another actual tank on it. 

     

    • 4415 posts
    June 7, 2017 1:03 PM PDT

    CAN7592 said:

    I've never played O.G. EQ1 due to being 6 yo

    I was 5 when I started playing EQ1. No excuse :P

    • 331 posts
    June 7, 2017 3:43 PM PDT

    Strykr619 said:

    The entire concept of Monk evasion tanking is pretty silly idea. Why would you need a off tank in groups if you have CC, why would you need monks as off tanks on raids when you can put another actual tank on it. 

     

     

    I totally agree with you, but what happens if you do not have CC or your CC is dead? What happens if your tank is dead?Or the mobs cannot be CC'd or split pulled via any known means? Or if the encounter type has a mini or add, that don't quite justify the dps loss of inviting aanother tank?

     But Yeh I totally agree that offtanking is traditionally speaking the worst solution to the crowd control problem, it is much less efficient than face tanking with a single tank.

    But some of that has been traditional content designs fault, if the developers throw afew curve balls at us, it's plausible offtanking might be semi viable or even valuable as a solution to some problems.

    On the raid portion, I totally agree with you, but the offtanking toolkit adds survivability to the Monk which possibly allows them to do their pulling role.

    • 1 posts
    June 8, 2017 7:19 PM PDT

    I'm pretty sure they'll include mechanics where off-tanking is a required part of the strat.

    • 20 posts
    December 12, 2017 8:34 AM PST

    summoner with earth elemental?

    • 99 posts
    December 13, 2017 11:15 AM PST

    Of course as a Tanker I want to be sure I can pull/keep aggro as much as possible.  So i'm not really interested in switching to a dual-wield so long as there are abilities or stances I can take that make me look appetizing to the mobs.  (Button cycle= Add salt, add pepper, add secret sauce...... Combat Stance= Slow Roasted BBQ)  I think this may be more key in Panth as the Dev's have often talked about mobs being "smarter" and looking for healers and others to go after in combat.  So dealing DPS may not be as big of a net for catching aggro as in other games which would make DPS on a Warrior (Tank) less of a key tool.  Some of the Pally/Dire/Monk abilities may even draw more aggro than DPS.  Personally, give me something like a "Drench in Chocolate Syrup" ability to draw mobs and i'll be happy.  =^)

    (Note:  Food abilities not literal..............Although they could be..........which might create interesting animations.........*pictures a wolf sprinkling salt on his Warrior* "No! Bad doggie!")

    • 727 posts
    December 16, 2017 4:26 AM PST

    Just a thought for the viability of off tank where CC is missing...

    Maybe we will see a mechanic where if your main tank turns his back on mobs he loses a serious about of mitigation, so in light of a situation where you do not have CC or not wanting to relinquish dps to CC (if rogues end up getting that stamina heavy "mez") you might have an off tank working to pick up any adds and bring them to the main tank instead of the main tank just turning his back and heading off to pick up any adds that come in. Also just assuming an (off) tank would be preferable for this job as those adds would hit a dps(ish) class way too hard trying to do the same thing.

    • 26 posts
    December 16, 2017 5:13 PM PST

    Off Tanks are typically used on technical fights, if they exist where maybe two groups need to die at the same time or something like this.

    Perhaps you would choose to DPS more than CC if the kills are faster, though in most instances I agree DPSing down one mob at a time is faster, but i wouldn't be so quick to rule out the use of off tanks.

    They could give flexability in how you approach a fight or variety of tactics in fights, but off tanking is never a major role and should be considered secondary and completely interchangable.

    • 67 posts
    February 20, 2018 11:40 AM PST

    My take on the differences in 'tanking' classes has always been that there should always be a reason to use every kind of tank. Now these ideas don't always align with some of the more popular ideas I've seen in this forum, but this is how I always pictured ideal class design.

    Paladin: The One who Withstands. The Paladin should be the best at actually soaking damage and requiring the least amount of attention from the Healer to stay alive. Between divine magic augmenting his defense and the ability to heal himself, he shouldn't fall unless he is woefully outmatched. He pays for this durability by having comparitively low damage and, possibly, single-target aggro generation. The Paladin is at his best when tanking mobs that other tanking classes couldn't manage, either from withstanding blows that would paste others or by using his healing to generate aggro on a large number of mobs at once, keeping his allies alive.

    The Dire Lord: The One who Impairs. The Dire Lord uses the primal emotion of fear to weaken his enemies and control the battlefield. The Dire Lord makes himself the biggest threat on the battlefield in the eyes of his opponents and causes them to falter in their attacks with his baleful gaze. The Dire Lord is not as durable as the Warrior or Paladin, but his opponents do not strike him as hard as they would his peers. The Dire Lord uses fear as his shield and thus is more likely to use a large, intimidating two-handed weapon that puts out larger amounts of damage compared to the Paladin's preference for the classic sword-and-board style. The Dire Lord is at his best when he can focus his weapon and his debuffs on a single foe, but can generate enough threat to tank several mobs so long as his healers are diligent. He can keep the attention of mobs far longer, owing to his natural abilities to generate aggro quickly and his steady damage output from his enormous weapon. He falters, however, if forced to take the hits of something far more powerful than him, perishing before his debuffs can take full effect.

    Warriors: The Lord of Battle. Warriors are more flexible than either Dire Lords or Paladins, able to change their stance to take mighty blows, to abandon defense for an all-out attack, and use taunting jabs and painful strikes to keep their attention. The Warrior would have the largest amount of damage in comparison to the Dire Lord and Paladin, able to dual-wield weapons or use the same two-handers the Dire Lord favors while also having the most martial discipline and firmest technique. The Warrior's primary mean of keeping a foe's attention would be through raw damage output and a few aggro-generating 'taunts' while striking their foe with debilitating kicks and weapon blows to their extremities. The Warrior should, in a pinch, be able to take up a shield to withstand stronger blows, but his ability to generate aggro would be greatly diminished and not be able to compete with the Paladin. Warriors can tank in any situation, but are at their best when teamed with priests that can cover his weaknesses with healing and debuffs. They have difficulty generating aggro on multiple enemies at once, and their ability to generate hate quickly is inferior to the Dire Lord and Paladin.

    Cleric: In a Pinch. Clerics are much like Paladins in that they can heal themselves, have heavy armor, and use divine magic to mitigate damage. While they shouldn't, by any stretch of the imagination, be a primary raid tank, giving them the ability to tank group content is an interesting new direction. While they wouldn't do much damage, much of their strengths are the same as Paladins, and if your group is using the Cleric as both Tank and Healer, that makes room for an additional DPS class that makes the fight last that much shorter. It's fairly common for Clerics to get access to powerful stunning spells, which fits right in to this concept.

    Monks: For a Bit. Monks as unarmored evasion tanks is a concept already discussed above. They would be very similar to Warriors, really. They use their martial skill and raw DPS in order to keep a mob's attention while mitigating as much damage as possible. Since they use their abilities to avoid damage more than tank it, they are comparitively easy to heal and could manage in a group with a weaker healer than expected. There's certainly room in the Monk's kit for crowd-control abilities like sweeping kicks, stunning strikes, quick disarms, and restricting holds that can help tie down a mob while the DPS does their work. The important niche the Monk should fill, in my opinion, is temporary tanks. Those crowd control abilities won't last forever, and at the end of the day they'll tire from all of that dodging. The Monk tanks best in short fights against weaker enemies, perfect for keeping the new pull busy while the group sweeps up the previous fight. By the time the Monk is out of crowd control, the casters have already debuffed the new enemy and the tank is ready to take over.

    Again, all of the above is just my opinion, and it is a setup that I think would be useful in making the various Tank classes in Pantheon feel distinct from one another.


    This post was edited by Darchias at February 20, 2018 11:42 AM PST