Forums » The Druid

Why would people want a druid?

    • 32 posts
    March 24, 2017 1:55 AM PDT

    Druids had big problems in Everquest. Even up to this day nobody really wants them in groups. You can see this on live server and even more so on the new progression severs like Phinigel. Druids are often lfg for hours. The reason is that they dont shine in anything. Good old jack of all trades. But these type of characters are dieing out. MMOs and their players changed. People became elitist. Why would we take a druid to DPS if we can get a rogue or a berserker who dish out double of what a druid can. Why would we take a druid to heal if we can get a cleric who can do the job so much better. This shows even more in endgame content that is hard! I just remember when Gates of Discord launched in Everquest which was back then a real hard expansion. Nobody wanted a druid cause they couldnt do the healing job properly and for a DPS spot they werent wanted. DoTs which they used frequently sucked in good groups since mobs died way before the DoT ticked for effective damage.

    In Vanguard on the opposite Druids did not suffer like this. Because they were not jack of all trades. They were mainly ranged DPS who could keep up with any other DPS class. Sure they had a mini heal but it had a long recast and you were not able to do a healers job at all. It was more like an emergency if you stepped into an AoE or something. They also had Berries to summon. Red and Blue Berries ...if you klicked them you gained Mana or it healed you. Was wonderful.

    In conclusion : Druids need something that groups will want for hard encounters and Xp groups. Something special that none want to miss, Because otherwise we see the same as in Everquest 1 again because everybody thinks like this : If you have a DPS spot in your group then you take the best dps , if you need a healer you take the best healer and not something inbetween because it slows the group down.

    Any ideas what VR could give the druid to make it special and wanted?

    • 2549 posts
    March 24, 2017 2:50 AM PDT

    I think the climate system and the Druid's ability to manipulate it will already make them very valuable. But anyway, you're not the only one. There's a bunch of ideas in these threads:

    https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/1153/how-you-would-like-pantheon-druids-to-be/view/page/1

    https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/4179/bringing-the-druid-to-grouping

    • 32 posts
    March 24, 2017 8:24 AM PDT

    O the life of a treepisser in eq 1 !

    • 240 posts
    March 24, 2017 8:39 AM PDT

    Look maybe I'm the oddball here because I never played a Druid as a main but I have played them in EQ. My buddy had a level 50 druid when Velious was the current expansion.

    He took a break because of RL stuff and let me use the toon as my porter and farmer. I only had a level 40 shaman and a level 40 Shadowknight at the time (because I would level one then switch and level the other. Back and forth every level). Anyway, I used his character the kite Wyverns in Cobalt Scar for the pelts to have a crafter make my shaman a set of armor (I don't believe the armor was available until PoP but he still had not returned to the game yet). I had fun with the Druid and remember them being okay. I plan on making an Ogre Druid at launch (not as my main but I will make one) so long as they seem viable through alpha and beta.

    I had fun with the Druid and remember them being okay. I plan on making an Ogre Druid at launch (not as my main but I will make one) so long as they seem viable through alpha and beta. I like the fact that in Pantheon they are making a quadrinity to allow characters to fill a fourth role and I think this is where Druids will land. Not a healer but can heal, not an enchanter but can do some crowd control with roots and snares, not a huge buffer but can add damage shields, and could also be an escape toon for when it hits the fan. 

    Have faith guys, these are experienced game developers and we are all here before alpha even starts because we enjoyed their previous games. The have learned lessons, and they listen and engage with their target audience so I am sure Druids won't be lame.

    I am just hoping I get some time to try one out since leveling and gearing my Shaman, Dire Lord, Monk before I get to start work on a Bard and especially before Brad gives in and adds a Beastlord in an expansion. I have a lot of work ahead and very little time. I have saved up 10 weeks of Vacation and counting so bring on Pantheon I am ready!

    • 266 posts
    March 24, 2017 9:53 AM PDT

    I agree, and Bazgrim pointed to a few good posts.  We honestly don't even know what a Druid will be in Pantheon.  I think we assume healer but until there is more information released we are simply grasping at straws.  Does anyone recall somewhere that VR said Druids would be healers? If so please post it here, thanks:)

    The OP is correct though, to make it a viable class it cannot be a "master of none" as the EQ Druid was.

    • 13 posts
    March 24, 2017 11:42 AM PDT

    Looking at the Wiki it says Healer and support for the Druid which is perfect for me, these things can change, looking at how committed VR are at looking after its community I don't think there will be any class that is sub par, VR are aiming for a smaller niche than other games so its key for them to make all classes viable. Massively looking forward to this game and making some new online gaming friends again =
    )

    • 213 posts
    March 24, 2017 5:33 PM PDT

    Hmm... In the Old days Druids were great. They had a lot going for them and were sought after in groups. Their damamge shield was lovely, and the group wolf form awe awesome for speedy group travel and it allowed players grouped with them a chance to escape trains. While not the best of healers, they could in a pinch, heal while a cleric was medding for mana. They could teleport their groups to far off places saving loads of travel time, thus saving people the horrors of using the quirky ships lol. 

    Druids also were very soloable from what I observed. They could quad kite. In raids as in Theris Thule they could kite the butterflys while the main group concentrated on her.

    While I'm not sure what it's like for them now in EQ, Druids back in the day were solid characters.

     

    • 445 posts
    March 24, 2017 8:13 PM PDT

    I played with druids all the time and never had problems, especially if they used their range of skills to lessen the danger in an encounter.  Maybe of you didnt have an enchanter you could use harmony to split spawns easy and lessen the amount of incoming mobs / damage and therefor the druid can keep up with heals fine instead of the same group taking on a spawn with a cleric would not have the skills to split the spawn easily, or again the druid using harmony on a wandering add so you dont have to deal with it as an add at all.

    I never had any issues with druids healing me as a tank, although yes a cleric had a better heal at certain levels, a druid did a great job and offered some other useful skills.  I always liked the extra dps a druid brought to a group while they healed.

    VR have said here and there that they are looking to keep the healing classes in a similar ball park of capacty but also each in their own way.  I like plenty of variety in the sub classes of healers / dps / tanks / cc.  I liked the fact that a druid or shaman had to use some tactical changes and utilise other skills besides big heals to get the job done efficiently in EQ, or alternatively other members of a group had to employ some alternate strateges besides tank and spank to get the job done knowing their healer didnt have quite as much juice as a cleric. For me that actually makes it more fun.  

    Min max groups will always exist and they will have their own preferences.. I dont usually have as much fun with hectic min max players, they are a bit too serious for me and they whinge way to much about everything haha (power to them though for whatever floats their boat) . I say choose to do it your way, play with likeminded people, have fun with a challenge and enjoy the reward of fine tuning your tactics to win.

    It will be interesteing to see how druids end up, they sound like a really interestng class in Pantheon, i think we should wipe the slate clean of what we think they are based on EQ and look forward to see they become in Pantheon!  Climate control sounds like they may be playing a huge role in allowing a group to mitigate incoming or cause more outgoing damage through weather? Who knows.

    • 324 posts
    March 25, 2017 3:33 AM PDT

    Everyone has their own onion about class worthiness and group makeup.  I don't want to disagree but I will give you a different opinion. Just like all classes it comes down to skill, how you play your character (Style) and what kind of gear your set up with. A Druid with DPS gear in a pickup group expected to heal is not going to end well.

    First Druids are bad ass. In EQ they were one of the kings of solo play. I had an alt Druid and I never needed a group. I could snare kite 3 or 4 yellow mobs all day and night at higher levels. I could heal myself, buff myself and everyone I met as well as port around the world to anywhere I wanted to go. Outside I could do almost as much damage as a wiz. I loved every minute of it and I never felt under powered. Keep in mind this was an alt and compared to the main druids in my guild I was just a noob. These guys were the masters of their class and they were twice as good as me at any role for this class.

    As far as groups go it is all about expectations. If you are assuming this class will heal like a Cleric you will be let down. But to be fair the Cleric has to have something and if healing is their thing you cannot be expecting a Druid to heal on par with a Cleric. It is a different type of healing (regain vs direct) and needs a different play style. Is it possible to solo heal a group? Absolutely. It takes two things, a group of skilled players and the right group makeup. Now will an average Druid solo heal a random pick up group, probably not. That is okay because the ideal place for the average Druid is as the 6th with a group that has 1 healer. the group maybe only needs the druid to throw out some back up heals or help out the group on named for heals or when things go bad. They need to be ready when you get the 2 extra wanderers so your group doesn't wipe. The rest of the time they are nuking and snaring runners. They can play back up CC as well wile nuking away making sure things stay rooted or snared so the group can stay focused. You can also take a very experienced group with a very tough tank and run the druid as a solo healer. You have to stack as much DPS that the encounters are fast enough to not run the druid out of mana. As long as you have slow in the group and your tank is not made out of paper you will be fine.

    Last but not least they have buffs and when playing my main this is a bonus for me. I want buffs, all of them. As a warrior I normally have little to no buffs of my own (depending on the game). As a tank reactive damage is a huge plus for me because all I do is take damage. This adds to my DPS. My DPS fuels my hate. God bless thorns. I am very strategic on how I build my groups and here is a pro tip, buffs are on the top of my list. I can only pull off half of the amazing things I was able to do or survive or numbers I was able to put up because of great buffs (and gear). IMO this is all with thanks to my group. Without their buffs I would only be half as effective. Without the group dynamic I am just a guy with a shield. 

    The great thing about putting groups and raids together is being able to play to some of the synergies between classes and create some bad ass teams. There is no one size fits all. Where are you going, what are you doing and what will you need is what dictates the group class makeup. Put together the group you need to complete the encounter you are going after. If you just get on and put six random people and or classes together you results will not be as good.

    In conclusion I will say that I like druids and if you know your **** there could easily be room in my group for this class.

    • 29 posts
    May 3, 2017 9:34 AM PDT
    This worries me too. With Druid being my favorite class to play in EQ, it worries me when i think about how unloved they were. I'm really looking for a good solo class that is also wanted in groups since I'm busy all day most of the week and can only sit down for hours on end maybe two days a week. It's really important to me that I can do both.
    The good thing is that Pantheon isn't an EQ clone and the devs are just as aware of the Druid issue as we all are, I'm sure. We still don't know what druids are going to be fully capable of. They could be geared way more towards healing in this game, which would make me sad, but who knows?
    I REALLY want to know what class I'm going to play already. I have class ADHD and the sooner i know what they all bring to the table, the sooner I can make up my mind and relax. We just have to wait until they're further along, and I hate it as much as you all do :(
    • 596 posts
    May 3, 2017 10:49 AM PDT

    The thing i like most about the druids in that they are masters of controlling nature, and as such i like the fact of how someone used them in vanguard where they are great dpsers, and can heal in a pinch, unless you can make them viable in healing, like clerics ahve the bigger heals and shaman have slow to help them heal through battles, so what can the druid do to help them in this department that can at least keep up with the shaman?  Only thing i can think of honestly is with Being the best HoT healer like in wow, and yes i choked saying it but that it honestly like the only thing i can really think of.  and multiple ones like maybe have one the HoT fast (every 1 second), one that HoT moderately (every 3 seconds) iwth a large hp tick and make something like a ac effect or something and than a one with a 6 second tick and moderate healing and maybe gives another stat i dunno.  

    • 237 posts
    May 6, 2017 8:44 AM PDT

    With the newfound importance of the environment, colored mana and the atmosphere/acclimation system, I'm all aboard the Druid hype train. Honestly, the traditional "tree hugger, flora and fauna master" Druid never appealed to me, but I think Pantheon has provided a foundation for the Druid to really become something unique.

    • 167 posts
    July 4, 2017 10:36 AM PDT

    Im new here and admit that I have mostly just scanned this thread. That being said I would like to look at it from a different more simple and straight forward perspective. What will make the most efficient group in Pantheon and what will a druid bring to a group to help round it out... afterall we are just 1 piece of the puzzle.

    It is also important to remember groups will more than likely be made up of 6 not 5 members which opens the door to a lot more options.

    Regarding the ideal group.. if there ever is such a thing....

    Cleric, Warrior, DPS, and CC and or a monk for pulling 

    We still do not know if a quaality CCer will for the most part function the same as a monk splitting a pull but lets hope they can...

    This eaves 2 openings 1 of which would go to more DPS.

    With groups being 6 and a cleric mostly buffing and single target healing I would definately take a secondary healer in any group I was in. Just looking at the streams to date you can see the difficulty they are having even at times with random mobs. 

    So this brings us to druids and shamans. The shaman iconic aability right now seems huge to me. As long as the druid gets a similarly powerful abitiy.. not the same of course but just as good in a different way... it should not matter which of the 2 are in a group as a backup healer/minor DPS class.

    Again.. from what I have seen to date in the streams I would definately take a secondary healer in any group... especially with the death penalty planned. I would rather be safe and go a bit slower and up my odds at avoiding a death or complete wipe than just try to blow through the content. 

    I do not see keeping 6 people alive in Pantheon as an easy task at all for any class but maybe I am too optomistic regarding the difficulty level :)

    Regarding our iconic ability... something similar to the shaman's but still different would be a thorns or similar buff on the tank but along with doing damage it would reduce the damage taken by a tank which makes sense to me.. not as much as the shamans slow but we make up for it with the increased damage of the thorns.


    This post was edited by Aatu at July 4, 2017 10:49 AM PDT
    • 322 posts
    July 17, 2017 1:57 PM PDT

    I disagree with op in as much that people did not want to group with Druids. Most people groups it's friends and for me making friends was by doing the best I knew in groups and soon people asked me to come into groups with them cause I knew how to play my character.  They knew they could count on me for a heal, a nuke, a cc, transportation etc.etc.etc. 

    So yeah a lot of Druids sucked and didn't know how to play and as a consequence had a hard time grouping.  My druid friends and I never had trouble. Often having multiple Druids in one group.

    I, for one hope Druids will have and keep certain abilities that make them stand out.

    The biggest problem with the eq Druid of recent years is that they're too good at healing. I often out parsed clerics on raids.  I guess they had to become the second best healers because pretty much everything else was taken away from them in form of potions or items with Druidic abilities...snare, root, sow , even ports and more.


    This post was edited by Durp at October 15, 2017 11:27 AM PDT
    • 61 posts
    September 13, 2017 7:26 AM PDT

    I totally agree with the OP. I mained a Druid up through PoP. Most higher end groups didn't want a Druid and even on Agnarr progression server now they sit for hours LFG. I had a lot of groups on my Druid in EQ as long as I was hanging with my close circle of friends, but if I tried to get a group outside of my guild/friends it was a chore.

    Druids were great at solo play and brought good utility to a group, but that wasn't enough for most groups and you were only allowed to join as the 6th person if they couldn't find a more useful class.

    I trust that the Pantheon team won't let Druids suffer in the heal/utility department so that they will be an equally sought after team member. I won't be willing to play a Druid if they aren't able to shine in at least one area.

    • 596 posts
    October 2, 2017 12:10 PM PDT

    i hopes they will be one of the main buffers/dps, like im uessing clerics will have hp/ac buffs, shamans got they stat modifiers im guessing, so im hoping druids get their DS, ATK buffs, movement, maybe get of stat modifiers that the shamans don't get like my shamans get str/dex focused and druid maybe agi/sta focused or something, that way regardless you'll be happy with them being in your grp, even if they don't become healers, is their dps i'd say they becomes your 2nd best DoT behind the necro or course but not by much, get some decent nukes so they can still hang in their with the big dogs in the dps world.  the main reason i want to be be dps focused is becuase theirs alrdy 2 healers, and i see clerics having the huge heals, and good hp/ac buffs, and shamans have good heals/slow, so they only other type of healer to be had in HoT healing, and i dont care for HoT healing now thinking about it due to, for one its either going to be extremly powerful, or simply not used due to basically falling short.  and becuase of this if you have 3 healers and one of the classes is on the bottom of the list than you'll be a hard time getting grp like the druid does in EQ1, so i say stick with 2 healing classes, the shaman being the off healer, but with the slow/buffs they will offer the cleric doesn't they will still easily get into grps, basically not threatened by the cleric by any means due to that utilty, and i believe the druid will thrive joining the dps world, becuase the DPS role holds the biggest player base.

    • 192 posts
    October 9, 2017 7:49 AM PDT

    Riahuf22 said:

    i hopes they will be one of the main buffers/dps, like im uessing clerics will have hp/ac buffs, shamans got they stat modifiers im guessing, so im hoping druids get their DS, ATK buffs, movement, maybe get of stat modifiers that the shamans don't get like my shamans get str/dex focused and druid maybe agi/sta focused or something, that way regardless you'll be happy with them being in your grp, even if they don't become healers, is their dps i'd say they becomes your 2nd best DoT behind the necro or course but not by much, get some decent nukes so they can still hang in their with the big dogs in the dps world.  the main reason i want to be be dps focused is becuase theirs alrdy 2 healers, and i see clerics having the huge heals, and good hp/ac buffs, and shamans have good heals/slow, so they only other type of healer to be had in HoT healing, and i dont care for HoT healing now thinking about it due to, for one its either going to be extremly powerful, or simply not used due to basically falling short.  and becuase of this if you have 3 healers and one of the classes is on the bottom of the list than you'll be a hard time getting grp like the druid does in EQ1, so i say stick with 2 healing classes, the shaman being the off healer, but with the slow/buffs they will offer the cleric doesn't they will still easily get into grps, basically not threatened by the cleric by any means due to that utilty, and i believe the druid will thrive joining the dps world, becuase the DPS role holds the biggest player base.

    Mechanic wise there are more means to prevent someone from dieing than HoTs and some of these mechanics could be much more powerful than direct heals (or hots for that matter). I assume that druids will be a HoT based class though. I sure do hope that every healer has its advantages and disadvantages so that the 'perfect group' isn't Cleric, Warrior, CC, DPS... but 'Healer, Tank, Cc......

    • 275 posts
    October 14, 2017 1:29 PM PDT

    If you think druids were not a wanted class, you are completely wrong.  Having played extensively during almost all eras (between live and progession) druids were perfectly fine groupmates.  Throughout certain levels they might struggle as a 'healer' or not be as efficient as a DPS.  But it wasnt anywhere near as bad as trying to have a Bard or Monk tank for you!

    • 596 posts
    October 16, 2017 5:53 PM PDT

    Duffy said:

    Riahuf22 said:

    i hopes they will be one of the main buffers/dps, like im uessing clerics will have hp/ac buffs, shamans got they stat modifiers im guessing, so im hoping druids get their DS, ATK buffs, movement, maybe get of stat modifiers that the shamans don't get like my shamans get str/dex focused and druid maybe agi/sta focused or something, that way regardless you'll be happy with them being in your grp, even if they don't become healers, is their dps i'd say they becomes your 2nd best DoT behind the necro or course but not by much, get some decent nukes so they can still hang in their with the big dogs in the dps world.  the main reason i want to be be dps focused is becuase theirs alrdy 2 healers, and i see clerics having the huge heals, and good hp/ac buffs, and shamans have good heals/slow, so they only other type of healer to be had in HoT healing, and i dont care for HoT healing now thinking about it due to, for one its either going to be extremly powerful, or simply not used due to basically falling short.  and becuase of this if you have 3 healers and one of the classes is on the bottom of the list than you'll be a hard time getting grp like the druid does in EQ1, so i say stick with 2 healing classes, the shaman being the off healer, but with the slow/buffs they will offer the cleric doesn't they will still easily get into grps, basically not threatened by the cleric by any means due to that utilty, and i believe the druid will thrive joining the dps world, becuase the DPS role holds the biggest player base.

    Mechanic wise there are more means to prevent someone from dieing than HoTs and some of these mechanics could be much more powerful than direct heals (or hots for that matter). I assume that druids will be a HoT based class though. I sure do hope that every healer has its advantages and disadvantages so that the 'perfect group' isn't Cleric, Warrior, CC, DPS... but 'Healer, Tank, Cc......

    This would be the best thing that could happen i can agree with you there but for the most part that iv'e seen is that games that try to have multiple healing classes very few of them actually get choosed to be a healing class, either due to diffculty or simply just wanting to be to heal with a easier class with almost the same amount of output, so if that in mind and to prevent this from happening to the druids again, i would like them to be DPS/CC/Buffs so they will be a viable option and not be the step child they were in EQ1.

    • 596 posts
    October 16, 2017 5:59 PM PDT

    Porygon said:

    If you think druids were not a wanted class, you are completely wrong.  Having played extensively during almost all eras (between live and progession) druids were perfectly fine groupmates.  Throughout certain levels they might struggle as a 'healer' or not be as efficient as a DPS.  But it wasnt anywhere near as bad as trying to have a Bard or Monk tank for you!

    They were nice when it came to being a okay dps class but almost every class that is considered a dps class blew them out of the water, and when it came to druid healing compared to shaman/cleric is night and day, they simply made them look like trash, and thats saying something coming from me becuase i like druids, but they have a bad wrap with the good at everything but not great at anything type of play style, make them great at something and sacrafice something to get it that way, and if it has to be their healing takes a hit, than im okay with that, im not saying they cant heal at all but more like they are can in a ruff spot but not enough to actually be considered a healing class.

    • 689 posts
    October 19, 2017 3:31 PM PDT

    Druids will be gate keepers.

    Wizards might be able to port about, but a druid's abilities will allow safe passage through climate bubbles and allow safe passage for people who can't acclimate beyond, etc. There are many reasons (more so than an EQ druid), to want to play the role of a Druid in Pantheon. Climate is going to play an important role..

     

    • 275 posts
    October 22, 2017 7:02 PM PDT

    Hieromonk said:

    Druids will be gate keepers.

    Wizards might be able to port about, but a druid's abilities will allow safe passage through climate bubbles and allow safe passage for people who can't acclimate beyond, etc. There are many reasons (more so than an EQ druid), to want to play the role of a Druid in Pantheon. Climate is going to play an important role..

     

    I would love to see this,  instead of just resist buffs,  acclimation buffs from the class, in the form of lowering the requirements for areas

    • 43 posts
    October 22, 2017 8:27 PM PDT
    Druids in EQ1 I can't speak for. In EQ2 they are badass chain hot healers and pretty much with the mythical best healers ever. In Shards of Dalaya they had the best of both worlds, best Hots in the game and nice group and regular heals, second best healers to clerics. So yeah, if you do not want to play a boring healer, then druid is your class. I'm looking forward to main a druid, and box a warrior or shadowknight depending on which will give me the more flexibility.
    • 8 posts
    October 24, 2017 10:48 PM PDT

    My Druid was always wanted in groups. I had some of the best group buffs, could secondary heal, I even off tanked. Sure I wasn't the "Best" DPS, and would only Primary Heal if nobody else could. When you realize how much a Druid increases the parties DPS and survivability you realize it isn't just about direct damage and tanking.

    • 72 posts
    October 26, 2017 9:56 PM PDT

    Hopefully Druids will be able to stand on their own legs, and not end up being this mismatch of everything being jack of all trades, master of none. I think versatility is important, but you should have to commit a bit to a group role with the loadout you decide to go with. The group needs an additional damage dealer? Sure, bring on your damage spells. Group needs a primary healer? Bring on all the utility. Your group want the more safe approach by providing a bit of both? You can do that too.

    Ideally I'd like to see Druids to be most damage oriented healer/support, while Shamans being stat buffs oriented, and enemy debuffs. Clerics being the superior defensive option, and specialization in dealing with undead.

    As far as previous adaptations of the Druid goes, I think the EQ2 Fury is my favourite one so far. Anything close to that would be awesome.