Forums » Pantheon Classes

Would a group want more than one "tank"?

  • Wig
    • 104 posts
    May 26, 2017 3:44 PM PDT
    I do agree tanks will be in high demand. I am also glad that the groups are a bit larger than other MMOs that I am used to. Allowing 6, rather than 4, gives the dps an easier time getting accepted into a group.
    • 3 posts
    June 9, 2017 8:25 PM PDT
    Honestly, while there is normally an ideal group build, I often had more fun in alternative builds. Hybrid classes make that possible. I remember, as a rogue, running with a SK friend and a Warrior friend, and we often were able to do camps without true CC because we had so much tank ability. Was it as good as having a bard or chanter? No, but it certainly worked and we had a blast.

    You're going to make friends, and if the game is built right you should be able to find content that works so long as you cover the "tank, healer, damage" categories at a minimum. With a 6 person party size you'll certainly be able to include and. E successful with off tanks if that's what you have available with the people you want to play with.
    • 1697 posts
    June 10, 2017 12:47 PM PDT
    I have no issue with non traditional groups being viable but I would prefer to play a game where having a well rounded group is ideal. As long as well rounded groups are the best choice, all classes will be desirable. Tanks are already the most difficult class to find when making groups. If tanks can fill in as DPS, that takes a tank out of the world that could otherwise be leading a group and enabling any stranded healers or DPS to have a shot at a group. Just my opinion of course.
    • 1564 posts
    June 10, 2017 3:04 PM PDT

    Of course you may want two tanks in a group. There will be times when you have a tank, but then you see Beefcake, the Ogre Dire Lord is LFG. You will think to yourself, we have a tank, but damn, it's Beefcake. Of course we want him in our group. 

    • 317 posts
    June 10, 2017 5:42 PM PDT

    lol

    /invite Beefcake

    • 783 posts
    June 10, 2017 8:56 PM PDT

    I will bet 10pp that there will be some percentage of content where the mobs are highly resistent to mez and in such environments having 2 tanks would be a necessity.

    • 1697 posts
    June 11, 2017 8:32 AM PDT

    If we get to a zone where mobs are highly resistant to mezz, I can see plenty of other forms of CC coming into play.  Monks can separate wth FD or fill in as off-tank (doesen't count as a second tank).  Summoners or Necros could have their pets do some off-tanking.  Enchanters might be able to charm one of the mobs.  Maybe fear/root/stun rotations will come into play.  Maybe we'll see sleep?  Maybe rangers/bards will kite part of the encounter while the rest of the group burns down the rest.  Maybe a combination of several of these things will all work at the same time?  I'm trying to recall a group dungeon or instance that required 2 tanks and I can't really think of any.  It came up all the time in raiding but for group content I can't really think of a zone where having 2 tanks was a necessity.  Certain bosses here and there, sure, but this was due to combat mechanics much harsher than mezz resistance.  As soon as a zone pops up that "requires" 2 tanks I'll be trying to figure out a way to do it with 1.

    I'm not against using 2 tanks in a group, I just prefer that any good tank always be leading a group of their own.  My bro will playing a direlord and as cool as it sounds to be able to group with him, I'll be expecting him to lead a group of his own until we get to max.  Hopefully we'll be able to enjoy progeny and mix things up a bit when we reroll but first priority is helping the guild get to max level and having 2 tanks in the same group would run counter to that.  I do remember seeing instances or dungeons where having 2 tanks was much "safer" but again I look at that as an opportunity.  That's a situation where I put together a group using 1 tank that can still get the job done whether it's using a monk, tank pets, or something else.  Raid content is obviously a different animal, the majority of raid content should require having multiple tanks.  Regular group content, though?  Bring it on!

    • 1564 posts
    June 11, 2017 12:19 PM PDT

    Required and acceptable are two different things. I believe that tanks will probably have a DPS spec. If your first 4 or 5 group members are strong, I doubt the 5th or 6th spot needs to be optimized for most group content.

    • 1697 posts
    June 12, 2017 8:11 AM PDT

    Hoping for 2 tank specs personally.  I'm fine using a 2 hander, offensive stance, and some situational gear to bump up the DPS.

  • Wig
    • 104 posts
    June 12, 2017 9:21 AM PDT

    Beefcake said:

    Required and acceptable are two different things. I believe that tanks will probably have a DPS spec. If your first 4 or 5 group members are strong, I doubt the 5th or 6th spot needs to be optimized for most group content.

    When you say spec, you mean a specialization tree or simply gear swapping?

    • 162 posts
    June 14, 2017 12:04 PM PDT

    Itchen said:

    My biggest worry for wanting to play a tank is that getting groups could be difficult say there were a large ammount of tanks. Would a Tank class be viable to dps? I had my heart set on being a Warrior or Paladin (Crusader). But these things nag at me. 

    With the return of the 6 player group, having an offtank will certainly be handy at times. That's why I like the 6 player group rather than the 5 and 4 a lot of games have shriveled it down to. 6 Provides you with a little extra wiggle room to either get a little extra damage, support or defense. All handy. So an extra tank is certainly an option, especially since many of them will be able to provide additional damage or support.

    • 10 posts
    July 5, 2017 12:26 PM PDT

     if a tank would be able to do dps even close to a real dps class then there would be no reason to make dps classes... so its a silly question and one that belongs to crappy games like WoW. Nuff said,I can imagine healers wants to be able to do dps also close to a real dps.. as you mostly do not need more than one healer per group... and then the WoW kindergarden logic comes into place and destroys pantheon... STOP STOP STOP HALT HALT HALT... BEGON DEMON's


    This post was edited by raimotion at July 5, 2017 12:32 PM PDT
    • 10 posts
    July 5, 2017 12:35 PM PDT

    Wig said:

    Beefcake said:

    Required and acceptable are two different things. I believe that tanks will probably have a DPS spec. If your first 4 or 5 group members are strong, I doubt the 5th or 6th spot needs to be optimized for most group content.

    When you say spec, you mean a specialization tree or simply gear swapping?

     

    hopefully gear swap, but hopefully no way near a real dps class.. anything else than that will make pantheon a crap game which we got tons of already that tries to please the majority of kindergarden players that do not understand the holy trinity which made mmorpgs so great in the start.

    • 1697 posts
    July 5, 2017 1:10 PM PDT
    I agree. I don't want to see a DPS spec for tanks. A heal spec for paladins would be okay because they are already a hybrid class to start with. We will already have colored mana, progeny, situational gear, and possibly even combat stances that allow players to veer off from their intended spec or role. I like customization, but when a group needs a DPS ... tanks should not be a realistic option.
    • 317 posts
    July 7, 2017 1:29 PM PDT

    Going from 50% of the dps of a dps to 65% of the dps (non dps spec to dps spec) would  not invalidate dps classes. It would allow situational power for a tank class (guessing warrior and/or DL)

    If not dps spec, then fine why not some other pathway, and if such what do you suggest for warriors and DLs though specs have already been announced as a thing for atleast 1 class, so you can't unring that bell, the only question really is what degree of power is within the realm of balance for a secondary role, and what would that role be.

    As for a healing spec for Paladins, just lord please no.

    A utility spec would be much preferred. Similar to their EQ toolkit, with decent CC (stuns/root/paci) and minor healing (emergency quick heals on long recast). 

    • 1697 posts
    July 7, 2017 2:30 PM PDT

    Sorry, I didn't mean a full healing spec ... just something that more or less boosts that aspect of their class.

    • 13 posts
    July 13, 2017 9:42 AM PDT

    I think part of what will determine this is how encounters work. For instance, in most fights of EQ1, one tank would only be required as you could mez/kite extra adds and have the tank hold agro on everything else. Newer games get around this with effects such as debuffs that require tank swaps or mechanics that require mobs to be held apart from each other. Needless to say, a group is only going to take as many tanks as they need and try to fill the rest up with dps/support.  

    If tank gameplay is very one-dimensional like in EQ1 (auto attack, taunt, kick, rinse repeat), then there might be a good shortage of tanks. If they have a bit more to their dimensionality, then you could see a bit more. Modern games like FFXIV currently have a playerbase of about 19-22% tank classes which works mostly well with the 1/1/2 tank/healer/dps setup that exists.


    This post was edited by zazabar at July 13, 2017 9:43 AM PDT