Forums » Pantheon Classes

Healers!

    • 2571 posts
    March 15, 2017 3:14 PM PDT

    Nekentros said:

    Is the description that Chris Rowan gave for Clerics and their two Paths of Mastery still accurate or has this changed since this now old podcast?:

    https://soundcloud.com/pantheon-rotf/developer-round-table-22815-part-2

     

     

    Too old. If I remember right they scrapped everything and rebuilt the game sometime in 2015.

    • 55 posts
    April 24, 2017 10:26 AM PDT
    Two things about healers that I would change would be heal type priority and not letting two healers of the same type be effective in the same group.

    For instance. Wards are a big shield that doesn't let any other healer do their job until it fails. Reactive heals happen next. The ward went down and the punches you take heal, buff or cure you. Lastly the Druid mops up any of the leftover hp if there was any to catch.

    Maybe a small change to the system could keep everyone employed for the duration. If wards were merely HP increases and reactive heals had a broad spectrum of mitigating uses as well as heals, then all three would mean more to the fight.

    Secondly I understand that game balance is paramount and having two or three shamans in a group, could cause a huge imbalance. I would just like to be able to group with another Druid from time to time, without hurting the group in the process.

    • 43 posts
    April 30, 2017 4:29 PM PDT

    In my opinion, if a class's primary role is "Healer" they need to be able to do that job as the only member of that role in a group.  From VR comments (Aradune in the last stream and elsewhere), it sounds like Cleric, Druid, and Shaman are the three classes that will be primary Healers.  That means they should all be equally capable of doing that job.  Now, that doesn't mean they will all do it the same way, but all three should be equally viable depending on the content being faced and the characters being of the same level and general player skill.

    Clerics may get the biggest heal spells, or the most efficient healing for the mana, or reactive healing they can precast.  Shamans may need to slow monsters to reduce the incoming damage enough to compensate for less powerful or numerous heals.  Druids may need to stack multiple regenerative effects or nature-based shielding on the tank to compensate for weaker hp-throughput on their heals.

    However they do it, though, they should all be able to get the job done.

    • 3 posts
    June 9, 2017 8:42 PM PDT
    I don't think they do need to be exactly equivalent. In fact I don't think they should be. Hear me out now, but even in EQ1, if you had 2 hybrid healers (Druid/sham for example) you got damage shields, stat buffs, Slow, stacking dots etc that a cleric doesn't bring. I played a Druid up to 60 in velious and no, I couldn't heal as much, but that didn't make me unviable in MOST groups, especially if there was another hybrid healer. And with the regen/ds mana free dots from clicks, I contributed to dps more than a cleric could. You can go the route that they should all be healer/dps combos but imho that just makes the game less diverse. People will play all the classes, look at how many rangers were in EQ1 :-p
    • 60 posts
    August 1, 2017 2:38 PM PDT

    Honestly, i think the people saying all the healers should be equal are insane... not all healers should be the same, all healers should have something about them that makes them unique.

     

    Clerics should always be about boosting raw Hp and doing big heals, and be anti undead.

    Druids should use regens and hots, with smaller HP boosts and direct heals.

    Shamans should always be HP/Stat boosts with direct heals equal to druids but use slows/debuffs on the mobs.

     

    Healers should not all be equal and good for any and every situation. Honestly, Original EQ healing set up was nice tho every healing class should get a rez. 

    But to say all healers need to be equal is stupid. Every healer needs to be different, yes they all need to be able to keep a group going, but no class should match Clerics in raw healing power, no class should have more Hot's then druids, and no one should better stat buff or slow then a Shaman.

    Every healer needs to be different, yes they all need to be able to keep a group going, but no class should match Clerics in raw healing power, no class should have more Hot's then druids, and no one should better stat buff or slow then a Shaman.

    I healed most of my EQ life on a cleric/shaman and yea slows stopped being effective, but by then we had other abilities to offset that.

    But that's just my 2 cents. What do you guys think?

    • 180 posts
    August 3, 2017 3:49 PM PDT

    I agree with you Nymphey in regards to healing and each class' different approach.

    So lets start by saying this is just my opinion and how I see the game as it stands now through the streams available.

    Healing aside I think group fit will be interesting to measure as time goes on...

    My ldeal group makeup as of now would be tank, CC or Monk, 2 DPS, main and support healers. The reason I choose this is due to the projected difficulty level and CRs when they happen. I would much rather slow down on DPS a bit to have that backup heal and rez when needed to avoid a complete wipe.

    With that being said Im really looking forward to seeing what a druid brings to the group besides heals. The shaman's slow as seen in the streams seems pretty amazing and his pet adds to dps making him a great add, in my mind, to a group as it stands now. So now the question is what will a druid bring to round out a group if his/her role is support...

    We'll just have to wait and see :)


    This post was edited by Aatu at August 3, 2017 3:53 PM PDT
    • 60 posts
    August 3, 2017 6:22 PM PDT

    Well speaking from EQ days, wiping a party was 90% on the puller and only 10% the healer. Smart pulls keep a group steady and alive. That's one reason I hated the EQ2 aggro system when it launched, set pulls? they took out the thing I loved most, and one of the harder skills, Splitting mobs and single pulling from groups.

    That being said I also hope this game leaves rooms for those odd groups we used to make. I remember being a bard and the only thing I did was twist my heal/mana song and that kept the group going it we only had single pulls without us having a healer. It's the weird groups like that, that are one of the fonder and more fun memories I have from that game. Hell, i remember a group that was a Necro rogue and monk, the necro would pull and kite while the monk/rogue killed. 

    While I think having a healer in a group makes things 100 times easier, I still hope we get the chance for those weird groups that shouldn't really work... but do.

     

    But not to get off topic, I don't think you would really need a second healer to keep a group going, as long as you have a good puller. And from experience, being a shaman in a group that just sits there and only slows while the cleric heals, gets kinda boring... unless you have a chatty group.


    This post was edited by Nymphey at August 3, 2017 6:23 PM PDT
    • 60 posts
    August 3, 2017 6:33 PM PDT

    Armyguy0 said: Two things about healers that I would change would be heal type priority and not letting two healers of the same type be effective in the same group. For instance. Wards are a big shield that doesn't let any other healer do their job until it fails. Reactive heals happen next. The ward went down and the punches you take heal, buff or cure you. Lastly the Druid mops up any of the leftover hp if there was any to catch. Maybe a small change to the system could keep everyone employed for the duration. If wards were merely HP increases and reactive heals had a broad spectrum of mitigating uses as well as heals, then all three would mean more to the fight. Secondly I understand that game balance is paramount and having two or three shamans in a group, could cause a huge imbalance. I would just like to be able to group with another Druid from time to time, without hurting the group in the process.

    So you want to slam a more complex system of having to coordinate what spells/buffs are used in a raid? That would just be a mistake, I main healed on a druid in wow since it launched, and I constantly had people telling me I couldn't be main tank heals. I shut them up with my performance and became the main raid healer for my guild. Being a healer is about paying attention, reaction time, and skill. But Slapping some mechanic that would negative 2 healers spells unless they somehow linked minds would just be ridiculous. Druids shouldn't just be mop up healers... all healers need to be able to main heal in their own way. Lore wise, clerics would have the most direct heals, druids more regenerative, and shamans kinda of a mix, as most raid bosses probably can't be slowed much, if at all. Granted making wards to absorb X dmg isn't bad, but having it block all other healers... bad way to set it up

    If you're not in a raid situation, and you have 2 healers in your group 1 healer can use direct dmg/damage over time spells and assist in DPSing, no they won't match a DPS classes dmg output but it's not like the only spells they will have are heals. If they seriously made it so you couldn't have 2 druids because all they could do it use the same healing spells, I would never play this game. And I'm sure most people that main healers wouldn't either.

    Healing is a thankless job 90% of the time, and if they tried to slap that "your class can only heal, and nothing else" that would make this game have a dire need for healers because no one would want to be one.


    This post was edited by Nymphey at August 3, 2017 6:36 PM PDT
    • 180 posts
    August 3, 2017 8:15 PM PDT

    Ive always played a druid in the past and have never had an issue healing a group. In WoW I was in the top raiding guild on our sever and my druid healed the main group from level 35 to level 50 no problem. Personally Ive always found healing on a druid easy but like so many, its trying to convince people you have never grouped with before that you can do this which is most difficult.

    Im still going back and forth between a cleric and druid here but at heart I want to do the druid. I just need to see what he brings to the table before I make my final choice.

    Nymphey... you are right about 2 healers. What I was trying to say is I would take a main healer but have a second healing class along who would mainly DPS but be there for when it hit the fan.

    I also remember having a bard as a healer in EQ at times when I had to play someone elses tank (the officers shared accounts so we could play whatever was needed to fill a group at odd hours) and your right... there definately are moments I wont forget ... good ones of course :)

    • 60 posts
    August 3, 2017 9:27 PM PDT

    Aatu said:

    Ive always played a druid in the past and have never had an issue healing a group. In WoW I was in the top raiding guild on our sever and my druid healed the main group from level 35 to level 50 no problem. Personally Ive always found healing on a druid easy but like so many, its trying to convince people you have never grouped with before that you can do this which is most difficult.

    Im still going back and forth between a cleric and druid here but at heart I want to do the druid. I just need to see what he brings to the table before I make my final choice.

    Nymphey... you are right about 2 healers. What I was trying to say is I would take a main healer but have a second healing class along who would mainly DPS but be there for when it hit the fan.

    I also remember having a bard as a healer in EQ at times when I had to play someone elses tank (the officers shared accounts so we could play whatever was needed to fill a group at odd hours) and your right... there definately are moments I wont forget ... good ones of course :)

    yea, tell me about it... I would get pissed when pugging a Wow raid and people then going "ok we need a tank healer now" I was like.. wtf man ill do it. Then they would be like... druids can't do that. GRRRRR

    And idk if things hit the fan i would rather have a good chanter to AoE mez, or maybe a wizard to Evac (if that's in pantheon). the group I ran with friends was SK/shaman/monk/Bard/Cleric/rogue Kinda the double healer there but with a good monk/bard things never got out of control unless someone trained us lol.

    Honestly, I want to play a halfling... but I hate they only have 4 classes... and I don't really wanna main any of them... Wanted to main monk/cleric/shaman/enchanter. So sadly now im down to race vs class lol

    • 55 posts
    August 3, 2017 9:29 PM PDT

    I think if you re-read the post you will see that I am not asking for a more complex system. I am asking that they think about a different take on the same healing system. I have also spent quite a bit of time raid healing with a druid. I think if you slow down a little bit you will see that nobody looses out by making a couple simple changes. As for heal priority... I don't play WoW. Maybe it is different over there. I played EQ1 and EQ2 druids. In Pantheon I plan on once again playing a druid. Heal priority for druids in my experience has been an issue. I was just trying to add constructive advice as a veteran healer.

    • 60 posts
    August 3, 2017 9:38 PM PDT

    Armyguy0 said:

    I think if you re-read the post you will see that I am not asking for a more complex system. I am asking that they think about a different take on the same healing system. I have also spent quite a bit of time raid healing with a druid. I think if you slow down a little bit you will see that nobody looses out by making a couple simple changes. As for heal priority... I don't play WoW. Maybe it is different over there. I played EQ1 and EQ2 druids. In Pantheon I plan on once again playing a druid. Heal priority for druids in my experience has been an issue. I was just trying to add constructive advice as a veteran healer.

    I'm not sure what game you were playing where, "Wards are a big shield that doesn't let any other healer do their job until it fails." or not letting two healers of the same type be effective in the same group.

    That certainly wasn't the case in EQ... maybe EQ2 idk i only played that for about 2 weeks before I went back to EQ.

    I have never played a game where 1 healer could ward someone and it stopped a different healer from landing heals... And done many raids with all of the same type of healers before... granted you miss out on some buffs, but it's still doable.

     

    And yea I did have to re-read it, I thought you wanted to implement some kinda weird ward system that blocked other healers.... but still, don't know what you're talking about with the 2 healers of the same type not being effective?


    This post was edited by Nymphey at August 3, 2017 9:39 PM PDT
    • 141 posts
    January 25, 2018 2:21 AM PST

    To me many are wining about i am useless in a raid only cleric are fit for it ...no one wants a shaman druid because they are 10% lesser in heal ??

    com on druid and shaman will probobly be more campatible to a party or raid because of different buffs/debuffs dps....and beside we dont know for sure what panteons system will be or the extent to spells !

    and another interesting factor is enviroment hampering like say if cleric takes power from calestial powers and say that this raid zone gives a 50% debuff to calestial powers then druid and shaman who takes power from nature and spirits will be the main healers in that raid for sure..the negativ is that cleric wont have a a thing for them in that raid...

    so hard to predict until we know for sure i personally hope all healers have a spot in raid/group content and not have to resort to soloplay...

    • 796 posts
    January 25, 2018 12:28 PM PST

    Well, my 2 cents is that they should be equal in healing but have different approaches. I mained a druid in EQ1 and a 72 man raid outlet would usually consist of 2 druids, 2 shamans, and 12 clerics. That to me is a big problem. What people don't realize is that sure druid has sow..heals...and dots...and roots... and snares...all of which were resisted by most of the raid bosses. SOW is useless in a raid..because you don't really run around. Ports don't help groups  you just become a taxi and thats it. People seem to forget that druids have alot of outside of combat utility and hardly none combative utility when it came to raiding. Cool snare a raid boss...how does that help? And even if your druid can dps...why take a druid when there are several other dps classes that can do a much better job. What I think should happen is that the cleric gets nerfed in healing but provide more utility like the shaman and druid. Anyways unless 12 druids or 12 shamans can heal raids just as efficiently as 12 clerics did in EQ1 then there will always be a problem.

    • 2571 posts
    January 25, 2018 1:57 PM PST

    Alas, that is a concept that people don't seem to get. If one class in a role is notably better then the others, especially for healing/tanking, then the others will be pushed out and content balance gets more messy. If cleric is the best healer and you want someone to fill the healing role why wouldn't you pick cleric? Yes traditionally shaman and druid can do other things/have more utility *but* they are being picked to fill a healing spot and players want the best heals and to have the minimum amount healers. The same thing will play out as it has in the past where you take mostly clerics with 1 shaman and 1 druid just to have any special/unique spells they might have to offer available. 

     

    The answer is giving clerics some other kind of uniqueness and utility to bring them on par in that area to the other healers but keep all the healers more or less just as powerful and capable when it comes to healing in whichever flavor they happen to use. Situationally each might stand out a bit more than the others but over all they would all be desired. 

    • 796 posts
    January 25, 2018 2:19 PM PST

    Iksar said:

    Alas, that is a concept that people don't seem to get. If one class in a role is notably better then the others, especially for healing/tanking, then the others will be pushed out and content balance gets more messy. If cleric is the best healer and you want someone to fill the healing role why wouldn't you pick cleric? Yes traditionally shaman and druid can do other things/have more utility *but* they are being picked to fill a healing spot and players want the best heals and to have the minimum amount healers. The same thing will play out as it has in the past where you take mostly clerics with 1 shaman and 1 druid just to have any special/unique spells they might have to offer available. 

     

    The answer is giving clerics some other kind of uniqueness and utility to bring them on par in that area to the other healers but keep all the healers more or less just as powerful and capable when it comes to healing in whichever flavor they happen to use. Situationally each might stand out a bit more than the others but over all they would all be desired. 

     

    Yea I see you mention this hundreds of times and I got what you were saying right away on the first mention and have agreed with you from the get go. I just laugh at everyone who doesn't seem to get this concept everytime you reply to them and they miss this simple fact over and over. I feel for you Iskar lol, but I thought I would help you out a little :P

    • 67 posts
    February 20, 2018 11:11 AM PST

    Iksar pretty much hit the nail on the head. If Clerics don't have any utility other than heals while Shaman and Druids do, of course Clerics should be better healers. Having Clerics as the best healers, of course, comes with it's own problems of homogenzing raid compositions as Druids and Shaman are displaced by the more efficient Clerics.

    The answer to this problem is not to give the Shaman and Druids good enough heals to compete with the Cleric. The solution is to give the Clerics enough utility that they can be useful without needing the best heals. The movable cover ability shown in their class description sounds very exciting! I'm actually very impressed with the idea. Having them with more utility such as setting up protective wards that reduce damage, augmenting resource generation with the favor of their deity, even getting enough aggro generating abilities to be a suitable off-tank would be excellent ways of differentiating the Cleric from it's fellow healers without simply making them, 'the best healers.'