Forums » Pantheon Classes

Necromancer Confirmed Now? But When?

    • 90 posts
    February 19, 2017 5:49 PM PST

    I know Brad has already said he has plans to have the Necro in-game at some point.  Is it questionable if the class will make it into launch since it showed up in the class/race restriction sheet?  Or are we for sure waiting until a bit later?  I hope we don't have to wait for an expansion for this class.  This seems unlikely, but it's not officialy in the Class lineup on the forum so...


    This post was edited by Frostyglitch at February 19, 2017 5:50 PM PST
    • 1658 posts
    February 19, 2017 6:00 PM PST

    From the last I heard, they're hoping to have it in by launch, but if they can't get it the way they want it, then it will be post-release.

    • 90 posts
    February 19, 2017 6:44 PM PST

    Excellent news!  Thanks the quick response. 

    • 708 posts
    February 19, 2017 11:51 PM PST

    Right now bard and necro are post launch classes. They have hopes of getting them in at launch but there is no gaurantee at the moment. If they do happen to have time there is no gaurantee that both classes will make it at launch. They might only be able to get one or the other in.

    I think getting both classes in by launch is probably not going to happen. I feel like the team really wants to make these 'extra' classes special and they are going to put a lot more work into them to make them feel truely unique. The bard and necro, at least in Brad's previous titles EQ and VG, played quite differently and in VG they had plenty of extra features and mechanics so hopefully we see that trend continue. BUT due to this these classes will take much longer to design than the core classes. I would love to have them both in at launch but I think that is pressing our luck. I main a bard in every MMO I can and I don't like the idea of having to wait to play one, nor would I want anybody else to have to wait either. If I was big in to alts I probably wouldn't care as much but I usually stick to one character

    • 90 posts
    February 20, 2017 9:42 AM PST

    Of course I mained a Necro in all the mmo's I've played so I'm biased towards seeing necros get into the game as soon as possible. I wouldn't want anyone to have to suffer without'em.  I see Bards as more of a utilitarian support class, being incapable of adventuring far by themselves.  Where with Necromancers, solo survival is more feasible in a pinch so I see them as being a necessary class for those that may not always have time for a group. 

    Since Necromancers dont have their own forum yet, perhaps this decision as already been made.


    This post was edited by Frostyglitch at February 20, 2017 9:45 AM PST
    • 323 posts
    February 20, 2017 12:25 PM PST

    I enjoyed the Necro in Vanguard but wanted to do more with the abomination pet. I always wanted to have several diff versions of him, not just the claws at the end of his arm.

    • 1658 posts
    February 20, 2017 1:52 PM PST

    Necromancer was my favorite class in Everquest (up to PoP), and there has not been a necromancer or necromancer type in any game since then that came anywhere close to it for me.  I haven't been able to play it in any other game because of that.  I'm always feeling like I'm being gimped if I try it.

    • 90 posts
    February 20, 2017 3:11 PM PST

    kelenin said:

    Necromancer was my favorite class in Everquest (up to PoP), and there has not been a necromancer or necromancer type in any game since then that came anywhere close to it for me.  I haven't been able to play it in any other game because of that.  I'm always feeling like I'm being gimped if I try it.

    Yeah no contest, hands down EQ is the standard by which all other mmo's have to live up to in many aspects but the Necromancer is by far the most important to me.  I'm always happy to see others attempt to make the class, but they always fall short.

    • 1852 posts
    February 20, 2017 3:15 PM PST

    I am happy that Necros will not be coming out at launch. If they did, I would have to choose between Dire Lord and a Necro.

    At least this way, I can maybe max out my Dire Lord before the Necro come out.

    Selfish, I know.


    This post was edited by Beefcake at February 20, 2017 3:15 PM PST
    • 90 posts
    February 20, 2017 6:36 PM PST

    Beefcake said:

    I am happy that Necros will not be coming out at launch. If they did, I would have to choose between Dire Lord and a Necro.

    At least this way, I can maybe max out my Dire Lord before the Necro come out.

    Selfish, I know.

     

    I wasn't aware it was confirmed.  As far as I know despite not having a dedicated forum area yet, there's still a chance they'll make it in at launch.


    This post was edited by Frostyglitch at February 20, 2017 6:37 PM PST
    • 4398 posts
    February 21, 2017 6:08 AM PST

    Frostyglitch said:

    Beefcake said:

    I am happy that Necros will not be coming out at launch. If they did, I would have to choose between Dire Lord and a Necro.

    At least this way, I can maybe max out my Dire Lord before the Necro come out.

    Selfish, I know.

     

    I wasn't aware it was confirmed.  As far as I know despite not having a dedicated forum area yet, there's still a chance they'll make it in at launch.

    You are correct Frosty. They are still trying to get Necros in at launch. In my personal opinion, it's somewhat unlikely. But VR has not confirmed it one way or another. So technically still hope haha.

    • 272 posts
    February 23, 2017 9:01 AM PST

    Wouldn't that be a riot if they unveiled bard and necro in the next stream 

    • 2542 posts
    February 23, 2017 9:51 AM PST

    That certainly would be something! I shudder to think that they won't at least have necromancer mobs out in the world at release.

     

    Hopefully we also see some humanoid bards, I'd love to fight some gnoll bards; "Howlin' Mad Darkpaw."

    • 272 posts
    February 23, 2017 11:48 AM PST

    Iksar said:

    Hopefully we also see some humanoid bards, I'd love to fight some gnoll bards; "Howlin' Mad Darkpaw."

     

    Howlin' Mad Darkpaw casts 80s Power Ballad

    You swoon and loose control

    Howlin' Mad Darkpaw says "slay them my minion, they are no longer your companions".

    Howlin' Mad Darkpaw plays air guitar


    This post was edited by Xilshale at February 23, 2017 11:50 AM PST
    • 185 posts
    February 24, 2017 8:20 PM PST

    In terms of game meta, I'd say Bard needs to make it in.  Mainly because with Bard, you're basically cementing in buffing as a solidified role (different than Control, which is more focused on enemies), and as such you need to get it in at launch to give us a certain Quinternity instead of Quaternity, as they can also give other classes a sprinkling of buff abilities as well.  On the other hands, if they add it after launch, it will be the premier buffer (which would be true anyway), but this will either come at the cost of stepping all over the toes of other classes capable of buffing, or other classes won't have many buffs making the Bard mandatory since no other class can suit the role.

    Necromancer, on the other hand, is a fun class to play, but is more of a dark/evil version of a Summoner.  It isn't adding (effectively) a new role/quinternity dynamic to the game.  This means it's FAR easier to add post launch without causing either overlaps with other existing classes OR other classes/the game having a void absent the Necro.

    I just feel like adding Bards to the game later will have a lot more issues in terms of the meta game and group dynamics whereas adding a Necro wouldn't.

    That said, I hope they can add them both, because I feel more options = better, and I like it when everyone can play what they want from the get-go.  Like me, personally, I tend to make a character and stick with them.  I hate having to make a new character or change mains because I get attached to my character, and there's nothing QUITE like that FIRST character I make in an MMO.  I can make others, but they just aren't the same somehow, you know?

    So in this sense, I'd like them to launch with as many classes as they can so that people can get that feeling of "I've had this character since Beta/Alpha!" years from now when talking to all the newbies that join the game down the road.  :)

    • 90 posts
    February 25, 2017 10:14 AM PST

    Renathras said:

    In terms of game meta, I'd say Bard needs to make it in.  Mainly because with Bard, you're basically cementing in buffing as a solidified role (different than Control, which is more focused on enemies), and as such you need to get it in at launch to give us a certain Quinternity instead of Quaternity, as they can also give other classes a sprinkling of buff abilities as well.  On the other hands, if they add it after launch, it will be the premier buffer (which would be true anyway), but this will either come at the cost of stepping all over the toes of other classes capable of buffing, or other classes won't have many buffs making the Bard mandatory since no other class can suit the role.

    Necromancer, on the other hand, is a fun class to play, but is more of a dark/evil version of a Summoner.  It isn't adding (effectively) a new role/quinternity dynamic to the game.  This means it's FAR easier to add post launch without causing either overlaps with other existing classes OR other classes/the game having a void absent the Necro.

    I just feel like adding Bards to the game later will have a lot more issues in terms of the meta game and group dynamics whereas adding a Necro wouldn't.

    That said, I hope they can add them both, because I feel more options = better, and I like it when everyone can play what they want from the get-go.  Like me, personally, I tend to make a character and stick with them.  I hate having to make a new character or change mains because I get attached to my character, and there's nothing QUITE like that FIRST character I make in an MMO.  I can make others, but they just aren't the same somehow, you know?

    So in this sense, I'd like them to launch with as many classes as they can so that people can get that feeling of "I've had this character since Beta/Alpha!" years from now when talking to all the newbies that join the game down the road.  :)

    On your last two points I'm totally with ya, hopefully all the classes can make it in by launch.  On the other had I have to disagree about your thoughts on Necro's completely.  

    • 4398 posts
    February 25, 2017 1:00 PM PST

    Renathras said:

    In terms of game meta, I'd say Bard needs to make it in.  Mainly because with Bard, you're basically cementing in buffing as a solidified role (different than Control, which is more focused on enemies), and as such you need to get it in at launch to give us a certain Quinternity instead of Quaternity, as they can also give other classes a sprinkling of buff abilities as well.  On the other hands, if they add it after launch, it will be the premier buffer (which would be true anyway), but this will either come at the cost of stepping all over the toes of other classes capable of buffing, or other classes won't have many buffs making the Bard mandatory since no other class can suit the role.

    Necromancer, on the other hand, is a fun class to play, but is more of a dark/evil version of a Summoner.  It isn't adding (effectively) a new role/quinternity dynamic to the game.  This means it's FAR easier to add post launch without causing either overlaps with other existing classes OR other classes/the game having a void absent the Necro.

    I just feel like adding Bards to the game later will have a lot more issues in terms of the meta game and group dynamics whereas adding a Necro wouldn't.

    That said, I hope they can add them both, because I feel more options = better, and I like it when everyone can play what they want from the get-go.  Like me, personally, I tend to make a character and stick with them.  I hate having to make a new character or change mains because I get attached to my character, and there's nothing QUITE like that FIRST character I make in an MMO.  I can make others, but they just aren't the same somehow, you know?

    So in this sense, I'd like them to launch with as many classes as they can so that people can get that feeling of "I've had this character since Beta/Alpha!" years from now when talking to all the newbies that join the game down the road.  :)

    There's far too many assumptions here for me to really be able to agree with this. And also too much "they NEED to do this" and "give us this" phrasing. But I digress... Let's get into what we can safely say:

    "Buffer" is not a primary role, mostly because it does not directly affect combat. And probably every class will be able to cast some sort of valuable buff. While I'm sure they'll have plenty of very good buffs, I'm thinking Bard will primarily be CC. Buffer/support will be their secondary role. Pretty much like how Shamans will have a lot of buffs, but buffing will be their secondary role.

    It's also awful presumptuous to think that Bards will automatically have OP buffs. Your statement about how they will affect the meta pre-launch vs. post-launch simply has no basis. It's possible for other classes to have buffs that Bards do not have and still maintain the identity of the Bard. (Just because Brad designed the EQ bard and that's how things were like in EQ, does not mean that'll be the same case here.)

    And I highly doubt Necros will just be an evil version of the Summoner. In fact, it probably won't even be close. But let's wait and see.

    Lastly, it won't be possible for anyone to say they've had their character since Alpha/Beta because there will be server wipes before launch. It's not early access. That's no reason to rush the release of a class.

    All that said, I of course do agree it would be nice to have both in at launch. More usually is better. But it's more important that the classes be done right, so I support their decision to wait if necessary.


    This post was edited by Bazgrim at February 25, 2017 1:02 PM PST
    • 185 posts
    February 25, 2017 4:25 PM PST

    Okay, allow me to clarify:

    The Bard class as a whole (and I'm using Baldur's Gate/D&D Bard as a baseline archetype here, combined some with EQ1's Bard - mostly because the only other Bard I've ever encountered in an MMO is Final Fantasy 14's, which is a DPS Archer that has some group buffs, but that game has a strict trinity so the buffs, while situational and useful, aren't exactly the role of the class).  So yes, the Bard class, on the whole, is designed for buffing the party, with anciliary capability of debuffing enemies.  There will likely be control elements in there, but in general, Bards work as buffers.  Although I doubt it will be what I would love to see in a game (a situational buffer that has lots of short term buffs to swap out on the fly to deal with various situations, kind of like if a person could use potions on others for short duration effects), what I expect it will be is strongly designed for boosting the party/raid's capabilities with a secondary role of hampering the enemy.  It will probably be somewhat like a Cleric is to healing - focused mostly on its primary job and not on DPSing.  (This being opposite of the FF14 Bard, whose primary job is DPSing and just brings utility buffs to the group as a side perk, almost but not quite as an afterthought.)

    This is, depending on how in depth they go with the buffing game, essentially adding a de-facto 5th role to the game.

    Without the Bard, this role is similar to the FF14's Bard - classes will have group buffs, but most will be fire-and-forget casts that you throw on before battle for the stat boosts and forget about.  In a word: Boring.  Like in WoW's earlier days where Paladins, Priests, and Mages would cast their buffs, Shaman would drop their Totems, and then the fight would actually start and buffs would be an afterthought.  (Though early on in WoW, Paladin buffs only lasted 5 mins, so they DID have to recast those, but that was all Paladins DID, and they weren't situationally useful buffs for the most part, they were boring stat gain buffs.)

    However, with the Bard, this becomes a 5th role - which I personally would love to see.  Especially if the base group size is 6-8, it would be wonderful to smash the trinity wide open.  The Bard would be, like the Cleric is to Healing or the Enchanter is to Control, the premier specialist in the role, but with other classes having unique buffs and a smattering of buffs that share the Bard's function but are somewhat weaker versions (in this way, you'll still want other classes for their unique buffs, but also a Bard will always be welcome for its wide array and powerful buffs).  I remember early WoW also had some overlap in buffs with one class having more powerful ones, but the other classes were still useful if the powerful one wasn't present, and even if it was, they still had a few other buffs that it did not.

    If you don't add the Bard in until later, and you don't plan on the support role being a role, then you run into one of two problems:

    1) The Bard is added later and is OP because without one, no one else has buffs.
    2) The Bard is added later, but because many buffs were already sprinkled to various classes, there's a lot of toe stepping on.

    This is somewhat true even if there isn't a 5th role created, but especially true if there is.  Because the Bard by its very nature has a deep team dynamic, how teams form and function is rather different if you have the game designed with them vice without.

    Now, considering that VR WANT to add Bard, it's likely they're planning for its addition, meaning that there won't be this huge problem because they'll be picking buff abilities for the other classes with this evenutal inclusion in mind.  However, the impact of adding a Bard class (unless, again, it's like the boring FF14 version - which I don't expect it will be), is significant on group/raid dynamics in a way that a Necro won't be.

    Necros, on the other hand, however you look at them, are generally going to be a DPS/CC class.  Saying they're just "evil Summoners" is an oversimplification, but saying that's not at all accurate is probably wrong as well.  Whereas Summoners will focus more on conjuration abilities combined with their pet dynamic, Necromancers will focus more on (probably?) DoTs and curses combined with their pet dynamic.

    While this makes them distinct, Necros are not in effect adding or strongly pushing a 5th role into the game.  A Necromancer could be covered by having a Summoner and Dire Lord or possibly Shaman in the party.  They will have unique curses and abilities, to be sure, but it's similar to how you could largely replace a Ranger by adding a Druid and a Rogue to the party.  They are doing something that is extant in the other classes.

    Bard, on the other hand, alters the group/raid dynamic enough that its inclusion has to be planned for in advance - which is likely happening - and is best served by being there from the start.

    .

    Again, I'll point to my last paragraph above where I clearly said I'd love to see them all in place at launch.  So I'm not trying to talk ill of Necros (I mean, hell, I HAVE seen that meme of Mr. Hammond from Jurassic Park - the most powerful of all Necromancers!  "You want to know why Necromancers don't raise dinosaurs? THIS is why Necromancers don't raise dinosaurs!")  I'm just pointing out that, in terms of mechanics, the Bard has to be planned for more than the Necromancer does.

    .

    Also:

    Lastly, it won't be possible for anyone to say they've had their character since Alpha/Beta because there will be server wipes before launch. It's not early access.


    I know this.  You misunderstand - some people have a spiritual succession of characters.  They make a character in Alpha, then in Beta, then in life, and that's their main for the life of the game.  They made it on launch day, day one, and they tested with (effectively) the same character in Alpha/Beta.  They feel an attachment to that character and that is there persona in the world, even predating the launch world itself.

    This is more what I mean.

    It's like some games add classes later in their life that I like, but it's not the same to me as that character I've been playing since I first created an account.  :)

    You're searching too hard to find something to attack my post on, I think.  :)

    .

    EDIT: Quote tags are hard...  <_<


    This post was edited by Renathras at February 25, 2017 4:34 PM PST