UnknownQuantity said:CanadinaXegony said:UnknownQuantity said:Amris said:I'm a little let down with the female character "they won't be sexy" business. I'm just hoping that they'll put in some optional "town wear" that allows us to enjoy being a bit sultry. Or even some
I understand why having them 100% sexualized is bad. However, I also feel that also says that female sexuality is negative, that women should not want to look or feel sexy. That, in its own way, is as sexist as making all women sexualized all the time.
So, while I'm excited to see them, I also hope that they'll allow us the freedom later to decide for ourselves whether we want personally to look sexy or not. Some of us are not ashamed of our sexuality.
Why is sexualized bad?
That is a matter of perspective IMO.
I can see people wanting a more realistic feel to the game though. I can also see people in this day and age overrating to anything that shows women in an objectified way. It's why a lot of companies are bowing down and accepting a more conservative model.
Don't we get enough of that in real life? Sexualized, objectified and fat shaming ...I don't want that sorry. I'm real, I'm human and I am female. That's it. I'm not a girly girl. Never have been. Fluffy, frittery..helpless..is not my game. Don't believe I'm female..not gonna send you pics. Tough. :P
I don't think we should shame anyone who is overweight, but we might encourage them to change in order to be a healthier person.
I'm not sure there is a connection there with wanting to take some enjoyment from people who are healthy and attractive in game. That doesn't mean we/I want to put down people in real life.
"encourage them to change" that came up as a discussion the other day..medical doctor stating that minding someone's business like that isn't healthy for the person that its directed at either. Anyway that's neither here nor there. Guys play female characters too..I have met many over the years. Keep the frippery to costumes..not my ingame armor. I would rather be classed as a gamer than someone' whose character has the most cleavage and leg showing. An equal..
Nanfoodle said:Iksar said:
Sexy and trashy are two different things. IMO this pic takes it too far.
I wonder if this is a Japanese game. This looks like anime art style and their culture has a lot more freedom in terms of sexualization than others. They were never corrupted by Christianity. One has to admit it is fairly imaginative even though it makes absolutely no sense from a combat perspective. We can see her arms and legs aren't likely to come to harm. I'm not sure about her midsection.
I always avoid these topics.. *turns around and walks away sharply*.
UnknownQuantity said:I wonder if this is a Japanese game. This looks like anime art style and their culture has a lot more freedom in terms of sexualization than others. They were never corrupted by Christianity. One has to admit it is fairly imaginative even though it makes absolutely no sense from a combat perspective. We can see her arms and legs aren't likely to come to harm. I'm not sure about her midsection.
Thats "Tera", originally a South Korean game :P And I wouldn't say that the cultures are any more free with sexualization than most others, except for gaming and anime.
Rachael said:UnknownQuantity said:I wonder if this is a Japanese game. This looks like anime art style and their culture has a lot more freedom in terms of sexualization than others. They were never corrupted by Christianity. One has to admit it is fairly imaginative even though it makes absolutely no sense from a combat perspective. We can see her arms and legs aren't likely to come to harm. I'm not sure about her midsection.
Thats "Tera", originally a South Korean game :P And I wouldn't say that the cultures are any more free with sexualization than most others, except for gaming and anime.
Perhaps you are correct. I have seen a lot of Asian movies and played a number of Asian games over the years and they do seem to have a lot more scantily clad women. They also seem to not shy away from certain topics. Often dialogue and graphics are censored when a game comes to the west and is localized. This is especially the case for Japanese games, though. I'm not as certain about Korean games.
Nanoushka said:I feel the same way Canadina :). I'm not worrying about it, from what I've read it seems the devs understand it perfectly. I wouldn't mind differences between races (and then applying the same mindset to both the males and females) as long as it's tasteful.
Exactly..:)
You guys have done a great job streaming as many newer models as possible with what you have. I appreciate everything you guys have done so far in keeping us as informed as you can without breaking any nda laws. *cheers
1. Female Models in Streams:
I don't doubt the VR team will want to showcase a good sample of models for any future streams. This will abosolutely include female models, I am sure! Whether they will have a female player behind the avatar is another matter and depends more on availability than Übermäßigen inhärenten patriarchalen vermutung!
2. Armour and coverage:
While I often see this kind of discussion, in one form or another, across many forums from Club Penguin x-rated (TM) to Star Vapourware Citizen (R)(TM)(C)($)(OMG) ... it tends to polarise into two distinct, but axiomatically opposing views. These are almost never reconciled.
Ultimately the limiting factor here is going to be 'developer man-hours'.
The more options for any given piece of clothing/armour (from 'full coverage' down to 'skimpy') and the ability to mix'n'match these, the more people will be satisfied. RP'ers love options, and so do most players when it comes to their 'character look', even if they are not bothered by the look of anything else.
There will be armour....
... there will be different styles of it!
Evoras, hopes he doesn't have to wear skirts all the time!
RumorHasit said:CanadinaXegony said:You could send me some cookies though Cana!! I would LOVE THAT!!! :). I don't like OVERsexualized either... but as a mom who likes her kids to play... maybe I am biased... I do like to dress up my females though in cool clothes... (CLOTHES being the operative word!! Haha)UnknownQuantity said:Amris said:I'm a little let down with the female character "they won't be sexy" business. I'm just hoping that they'll put in some optional "town wear" that allows us to enjoy being a bit sultry. Or even some
I understand why having them 100% sexualized is bad. However, I also feel that also says that female sexuality is negative, that women should not want to look or feel sexy. That, in its own way, is as sexist as making all women sexualized all the time.
So, while I'm excited to see them, I also hope that they'll allow us the freedom later to decide for ourselves whether we want personally to look sexy or not. Some of us are not ashamed of our sexuality.
Why is sexualized bad?
That is a matter of perspective IMO.
I can see people wanting a more realistic feel to the game though. I can also see people in this day and age overrating to anything that shows women in an objectified way. It's why a lot of companies are bowing down and accepting a more conservative model.
Don't we get enough of that in real life? Sexualized, objectified and fat shaming ...I don't want that sorry. I'm real, I'm human and I am female. That's it. I'm not a girly girl. Never have been. Fluffy, frittery..helpless..is not my game. Don't believe I'm female..not gonna send you pics. Tough. :P
Costumes, town clothing..have at it. Long as my armor looks like it will protect me. That asian chain mail bikini (bear with me for a minute) wouldn't protect your midriff in battle for one second. People want to roleplay sexy...do that, just don't expect me to conform. hehehe Next batch of peanut butter cookies due soon, Rumor :)
Enitzu said:Honestly I think BDO did very well with their female characters. Didn't over sexualize them but gave you the freedom to do so if that's what you really wanted. As in some of the outfits were pretty over the top.
I'm most likely extremely picky but I didn't enjoy BDO's character creation for the simple reason that I seemingly could only make happy go lucky 16 year old girls with sparkly eyes and either empty or naive expressions (which did make me want to punch them). It bored me to tears. I like expressive and strong faces, preferably somewhat mature. I don't care for many sliders, I just want truly varied faces. I don't mind if others want to make purty girls, as long as I don't have to.
And thank you for your feedback Evoras, you never fail to make me smile (or even laugh out loud).
CanadinaXegony said:Costumes, town clothing..have at it. Long as my armor looks like it will protect me. That asian chain mail bikini (bear with me for a minute) wouldn't protect your midriff in battle for one second. People want to roleplay sexy...do that, just don't expect me to conform. hehehe Next batch of peanut butter cookies due soon, Rumor :)
Peanutbutter... My favourite! save some for me Cana :D
Nanoushka said:On topic, I'm extremely curious what the female archai will look like.
I'm also very eager to see what they do with the female Archai, I love the concept of that race :D
Enitzu said:Honestly I think BDO did very well with their female characters. Didn't over sexualize them but gave you the freedom to do so if that's what you really wanted. As in some of the outfits were pretty over the top.
I'm hoping for a variety of bodies, but I don't necessarily need to run around out in the woods in my skivvies. I just want the option when I'm in town to "play dress up". That's what humans do when we're not out slaying dragons... we go home to town and we have a life. It's THAT life which makes the slaying of dragons worth our while.
I don't want women (or even men) who want to be of other shapes and sizes to be lost or forgotten. I just don't want it to get to the point where it's once again considered "bad" or "evil" for women to express our sexuality. Last time it was religion, this time it will be intolerance in the name of tolerance? I want both for women to be able to appreciate our bodies as they are, as much as (intelligent) men do. I also want all of us, of any size, to be able to feel sexy and beautiful without other women raging at us for being 'slutty' or for being too thin or too fat or too sexy or...
I want the game to reflect the practical need for actual armor, but also to leave room for the "frivilous" side of being who we are when we're on our own time, be that sexual, asexual, or too focused on tradeskills to give a hoot what we look like one way or another.
I also, quite frankly, want the same for men. I admit, I really enjoy some of the male costumes in Skyrim, for example. Those little bits of "fur armor" that some of those guys wear in the frozen areas? Funny, but sheesh. Break out the fans. Why shouldn't both sexes and all genders be able to wear what we desire, even if others wouldn't approve? We certainly can't do that in real life.
Rachael said:CanadinaXegony said:Costumes, town clothing..have at it. Long as my armor looks like it will protect me. That asian chain mail bikini (bear with me for a minute) wouldn't protect your midriff in battle for one second. People want to roleplay sexy...do that, just don't expect me to conform. hehehe Next batch of peanut butter cookies due soon, Rumor :)
Peanutbutter... My favourite! save some for me Cana :D
Nanoushka said:On topic, I'm extremely curious what the female archai will look like.
I'm also very eager to see what they do with the female Archai, I love the concept of that race :D
I love the ethereal look of the gnome, their body looks gaseous in between the armor bits. Other one I am interested in is the Dark Myr (always wanted to play a mermaid..ocean exploration etc) Dark Myr will be the next best thing. Presuming of course that both may have special things they can do. Both will be female of course. My characters are extensions of myself..have always been. I love things that are new and different. :) Hey no problem Rachel! :)
Amris said:Enitzu said:Honestly I think BDO did very well with their female characters. Didn't over sexualize them but gave you the freedom to do so if that's what you really wanted. As in some of the outfits were pretty over the top.
I'm hoping for a variety of bodies, but I don't necessarily need to run around out in the woods in my skivvies. I just want the option when I'm in town to "play dress up". That's what humans do when we're not out slaying dragons... we go home to town and we have a life. It's THAT life which makes the slaying of dragons worth our while.
I don't want women (or even men) who want to be of other shapes and sizes to be lost or forgotten. I just don't want it to get to the point where it's once again considered "bad" or "evil" for women to express our sexuality. Last time it was religion, this time it will be intolerance in the name of tolerance? I want both for women to be able to appreciate our bodies as they are, as much as (intelligent) men do. I also want all of us, of any size, to be able to feel sexy and beautiful without other women raging at us for being 'slutty' or for being too thin or too fat or too sexy or...
I want the game to reflect the practical need for actual armor, but also to leave room for the "frivilous" side of being who we are when we're on our own time, be that sexual, asexual, or too focused on tradeskills to give a hoot what we look like one way or another.
I also, quite frankly, want the same for men. I admit, I really enjoy some of the male costumes in Skyrim, for example. Those little bits of "fur armor" that some of those guys wear in the frozen areas? Funny, but sheesh. Break out the fans. Why shouldn't both sexes and all genders be able to wear what we desire, even if others wouldn't approve? We certainly can't do that in real life.
No religion or intolerance. Just a view to equality. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Dressup time..have fun with it. We don't know yet if VR will be implementing costumes, dress up clothing whatever you might want to call it. I'm fine with that roleplay...roleplayed for ten months straight in an online game ( as an evil character..I actually had a following lol) back in the mid '90s. Again don't want armor that looks like skimpy underwear..and from what has been said that probably won't happen. :)
I remember telling Kilsin .........We females need *bigger eyes* I could'nt tell if it was a male or female rogue he was playing.I myself ,when I play my female char,they better look like one ,and I should get to dress her like one too (Aion and LotRo has some nice outfits)
CanadinaXegony said:No religion or intolerance. Just a view to equality. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Dressup time..have fun with it. We don't know yet if VR will be implementing costumes, dress up clothing whatever you might want to call it. I'm fine with that roleplay...roleplayed for ten months straight in an online game ( as an evil character..I actually had a following lol) back in the mid '90s. Again don't want armor that looks like skimpy underwear..and from what has been said that probably won't happen. :)
Just so that we're all clear, my comments were not aimed at any person or persons in this thread in any way, shape, or form. I was not accusing anyone here of anything, I was speaking as a general attitude in MMO discussions from a very broad perspective.
I don't want anyone thinking I was speaking to them personally or saying they were being bigoted in any way. That was anything but what I was trying to do here.
Lghtngfan said:If you've had three streams and people couldn't tell that there's a female character on the screen, there may need to be some tweaking with the design.
I'm a curvy woman myself, and I'll be quite disappointed if I can't make a female character with curves. This isn't sexualized; this is anatomy. Granted, I usually play my paladin pretty buttoned-up (hey, she grew up in a temple for crying out loud!), but if I want to make a cheeky hafling rogue (dang it ... was that one of the race/class combos? I don't remember!), I may want to have her a bit more sultry.
Except for maybe trolls and ogres, male characters are usually drawn as if they're "men want to be him and women want to be with him." I'm pretty sure a good chunk of male gamers have that fantasy and enjoy fitting into that body. Why can't I fantisize about being a 6'2" and having a body that won't quit instead of my 5'3" lumpy body?
I'm not saying not to have oversexualized female characters. Heck, I know there are some people out there that want to have a flat-chested female character with a crew cut. Just as there's nothing wrong with that, there shouldn't be anything wrong with having a curvy female with flowing hair.
There were multiple close-ups of my female character in the first and second stream, I would be quite surprised if people couldn't notice her, I even did a sexy dance and showed off my stealth stances! So I think people need to watch those streams again, the last one we even had a human female and we have shown off the same human female in our latest screenshots.
We actually have answered a lot of these in our FAQ:
http://www.pantheonmmo.com/game/faqs/
We sure hope so. The female playable characters in Pantheon brings up an important point: they will be very attractive, heroic in appearance, a persona anyone could look up to; but they will not be overly sexualized. We want all players to be proud of their character and their appearance.
Keeping in mind our characters, classes, models etc. are still a work in progress as we have stated numerous times now, please look to our newly updated FAQ (which will receive another beefy update soon) as it explains a bit about our female characters.
Also, please don't turn this thread into a political statement or drag it into a sexual inequality statement, this is a fictional, high fantasy world that we are creating with its own lore and rules to go by, the outside world is non-existant in Terminus and although we as a company believe in and support equality for all, we do not want threads like this turning into arguments over human rights etc. as it is completely unnecessary and way off topic, let's leave the real world in the real world and save this place for us to escape to. :)
We actually have answered a lot of these in our FAQ:
http://www.pantheonmmo.com/game/faqs/
We sure hope so. The female playable characters in Pantheon brings up an important point: they will be very attractive, heroic in appearance, a persona anyone could look up to; but they will not be overly sexualized. We want all players to be proud of their character and their appearance.
Roenick said:RumorHasit said:Kilsin said:um... If you can't tell its a female... is it a female?? or just a dude playing a character he SAYS is a female??? (I am sorry I had to ask... )...(but it begs the question.... when they don't look female enough to be easily spotted..and they are played by men with enough MALENESS in mannerisms and voice... are they really female?).We have had a female in every stream!
I played the female Rogue in our first ever stream, then was in the backup group in the second one and in the last stream our Gnome is a female model (hard to tell, I know) plus we had a female human model ;)
If you go back and look through the 3 streams you will be able to spot female characters but we will try and fit another one in if possible, they are all still a WIP so we just try to show off the newest additions and not all of them come in male and female yet :)Edit to add: Of maybe instead of a Cohh you should have one of your female employees play a female character and talk in the stream... so its voice character compatible?
Female Warrior in the middle. Personally think it's nice to see a woman in full plate for a change. (also the gnome is female, but obviously a bit harder to tell :) )
And I thought that was Lief Garrett. I jest.
I understand they're just placeholders but the female looks rather androgynous to me. I hope that changes. I also hope the female models are not overly sexualized in comparisson to their male counterparts. If you're gonna go there you might as well be equitable about it.
Such a touchy subject. But that shouldn't deter people from talking about it in a mature and reasonable manner
OakKnower said:Roenick said:RumorHasit said:Kilsin said:um... If you can't tell its a female... is it a female?? or just a dude playing a character he SAYS is a female??? (I am sorry I had to ask... )...(but it begs the question.... when they don't look female enough to be easily spotted..and they are played by men with enough MALENESS in mannerisms and voice... are they really female?).We have had a female in every stream!
I played the female Rogue in our first ever stream, then was in the backup group in the second one and in the last stream our Gnome is a female model (hard to tell, I know) plus we had a female human model ;)
If you go back and look through the 3 streams you will be able to spot female characters but we will try and fit another one in if possible, they are all still a WIP so we just try to show off the newest additions and not all of them come in male and female yet :)Edit to add: Of maybe instead of a Cohh you should have one of your female employees play a female character and talk in the stream... so its voice character compatible?
Female Warrior in the middle. Personally think it's nice to see a woman in full plate for a change. (also the gnome is female, but obviously a bit harder to tell :) )
And I thought that was Lief Garrett. I jest.
I understand they're just placeholders but the female looks rather androgynous to me. I hope that changes. I also hope the female models are not overly sexualized in comparisson to their male counterparts. If you're gonna go there you might as well be equitable about it.
Such a touchy subject. But that shouldn't deter people from talking about it in a mature and reasonable manner
I think people need to look more closely at our female characters... these are a WIP and so far we have a few female models that we have shown off, we will show more as we finish them and get them implemented.
This topic isn;t touchy at all, people just drag it off in directions that it doesn't need to go, if we keep it on topic and about female characters, keeping in mind what we have stated and released, this thread will remain open and people can discuss it happily. :)
Here are a few examples, there is a tonne more that I am sure you can find on your own, including our first two streams where I play a female Rogue:
https://www.facebook.com/pantheonmmo/photos/pcb.1885770524970812/1885770098304188/?type=3&theater - Female Human leading the hill climb
https://www.facebook.com/pantheonmmo/photos/pcb.1885770524970812/1885770094970855/?type=3&theater - Close up behind Female Human
https://www.facebook.com/pantheonmmo/photos/pcb.1882395268641671/1882394255308439/?type=3&theater - Female Human and Gnome - in combat showing the guys how it's done
https://www.facebook.com/pantheonmmo/photos/pcb.1882395268641671/1882394228641775/?type=3&theater - Female human leading the pack in full plate
https://www.facebook.com/pantheonmmo/photos/p.1881936778687520/1881936778687520/?type=3&theater - Female human bottom left in action
https://www.facebook.com/pantheonmmo/photos/a.1451923948355474.1073741829.1444194139128455/1872639656283899/?type=3&theater - Concept Artwork that we base our models from - Females represented
https://www.facebook.com/pantheonmmo/photos/pcb.1872129866334878/1872127073001824/?type=3&theater - Female Gnome and Human
https://www.facebook.com/pantheonmmo/photos/a.1451923948355474.1073741829.1444194139128455/1854201101461088/?type=3&theater - Distance shot of my Female Rogue
https://www.facebook.com/pantheonmmo/photos/a.1451923948355474.1073741829.1444194139128455/1821289751418890/?type=3&theater - Closer back view of my Female Rogue
https://www.facebook.com/pantheonmmo/photos/a.1451923948355474.1073741829.1444194139128455/1772733246274541/?type=3&theater - Close up froint view Female concept art for Halfling
