Forums » Pantheon Classes

Using the environmental system to boost hybrid classes

    • 60 posts
    January 17, 2017 7:59 AM PST

    I touched on this subject on another post but the thread wasn't so much focused on it and I think it would be good to give this idea more exposure.

    As we all probably "assume" the best dps/tank/healing classes will most likely be the ones that specialize in that one thing unlike the hybrids. The team actually talked about this often about a year ago if I remember right that they think it makes more sense for example a Warrior to be able to tank better in most cases than say a Crusader mainly because the Warrior is focused on defensive fighting and the Crusader is more of a mix of things. 

    I think it would be really cool if they used the environmental system they are using a lot of to make some hybrid tanks/healers better in some situations than the "focused" classes. For example a Dire Lord will have much higher defence in a dark and gloomy raid zone than a Warrior. Of course the Warrior would still be better at tanking if he out-geared the Dire Lord by a lot but for the most part would be a little behind in this situation. The same could be applied for hybrid dps/healers for all sort of different raid zones. It would make raiding guilds way more likely to broaden there recruitment needs for sure and also make hybrid classes not feel like a second option all of the time in raiding.

    Btw this is coming from a person that will be playing a Warrior for sure but I think would add a very cool element to something that is already comfirmed to be in the game.

    I still think the "focused" classes should be the best in say 70% of situations but let there be areas where the hybrids shine in the other 30%. What do you guys think?

    • 271 posts
    January 17, 2017 8:07 AM PST

    I could see this happening as a result of colored mana too.  The idea is cool.  I'd like to know a bit more about those systems.


    This post was edited by Shai at January 17, 2017 8:26 AM PST
    • 1852 posts
    January 17, 2017 12:43 PM PST

    I believe it's already being taken care. There will be situations when Hybrids will be better.

    • 60 posts
    January 17, 2017 1:33 PM PST

    Beefcake said:

    I believe it's already being taken care. There will be situations when Hybrids will be better.

    Well yeah...I know they will somehow make them be better in some situations that isn't what i'm talking about here. I'm just posting an idea that I thought would be cool in the game and seeing if other people liked it :).


    This post was edited by Stephen at January 17, 2017 1:34 PM PST
    • 271 posts
    January 17, 2017 1:49 PM PST

    Beefcake is almost universally crusty and prickly but his heart's in the right place.  Personally, Stephen, I think there's a lot of forum-hay to be made discussing different ways this could work.  Heck, maybe we'll even bubble up a few good ideas for the designers.

    • 1852 posts
    January 17, 2017 2:32 PM PST

    Shai said:

    Beefcake is almost universally crusty and prickly but his heart's in the right place.  Personally, Stephen, I think there's a lot of forum-hay to be made discussing different ways this could work.  Heck, maybe we'll even bubble up a few good ideas for the designers.

    Hey! There is no need to discuss my underwear in this topic.

    My heart is where it belongs, hidden in a different limb to prevent being staked.

    • 2013 posts
    January 17, 2017 2:32 PM PST

    I know your question has more to it than this, and I dont have anything to add beyond whats been said. But I dont mind if some classes are better than others in certain situations. I think thats normal. However, I dont want to see useless classes either. So all classes that represent a certain role should be viable even if they arent the best. Period.

    • 60 posts
    January 17, 2017 2:47 PM PST

    Amsai said:

    I know your question has more to it than this, and I dont have anything to add beyond whats been said. But I dont mind if some classes are better than others in certain situations. I think thats normal. However, I dont want to see useless classes either. So all classes that represent a certain role should be viable even if they arent the best. Period.

    Yeah I completely agree 100%. All I was suggesting was exactly what you said haha :).

    • 1825 posts
    January 17, 2017 6:55 PM PST

    Given that Brad has said time and time and time and time and time again, that all classes within an archetype will be able to perform the primary function of their archetype equally means you won't need a %&#!@*% warrior to tank every raid boss.  You got a Dire Lord, he'll handle it.  The variable environments will affect some spells, abilities or skills making certain ones more useful and other less so but it will never make any class worthless.

    • 60 posts
    January 18, 2017 5:38 AM PST

    Guys please read what I said. I already know hybrid classes will still be viable and able to do all the things a more "direct" class can do, thats not what i'm talking about here lol...

    • 2013 posts
    January 18, 2017 11:06 AM PST

    The question is "what do I think"?

     

    I like it and would be fine with it. Id probably go even on percentage though or as near possible.

    Example:

    Pally 33%, DL 33%, War 33%

    Something like that.

    • 60 posts
    January 18, 2017 11:28 AM PST

    Amsai said:

    The question is "what do I think"?

     

    I like it and would be fine with it. Id probably go even on percentage though or as near possible.

    Example:

    Pally 33%, DL 33%, War 33%

    Something like that.

    Hmm it wouldn't turn me off from playing pantheon if they did this but I think if they are going to make Warrior fall behind on DPS and focus mainly on making them a more focused tank class then they deserve to be the best in 70% of the tanking content. I dunno it just seems unfair to me that a Crusader or Dire Lord who has utility/healing capabilites have a similar percentage of raid content where they are the best. 

    I think Crusader 25%(Holy Environments/Zones), Dire Lord 25%(Dark Environments/Zones) and Warrior 50%(Everything Else). 

    It's would be an interesting debate if they put this in the game and to have people's opinions on what they would prefer.

    • 2013 posts
    January 18, 2017 2:43 PM PST

    Yea but Im pretty sure War will be the best DPS of the 3 in general. Paladins get a boost in damage to Undead but that would probably be it and probably only bring them up to par with War. Same with DL, only swap out Undead for Holy/Angel Like beings (sure that would be rare). And thats just DPS. Tanking is its own thing like you listed above with the environments but it doesnt have t be limited to that either. Maybe DL just is more survivavble because of the boss mechanics in a certain encounter. Maybe drain and other skills like it just piss mob X off more than a nomral taunt.

    • 60 posts
    January 18, 2017 2:57 PM PST

    Amsai said:

    Yea but Im pretty sure War will be the best DPS of the 3 in general. Paladins get a boost in damage to Undead but that would probably be it and probably only bring them up to par with War. Same with DL, only swap out Undead for Holy/Angel Like beings (sure that would be rare). And thats just DPS. Tanking is its own thing like you listed above with the environments but it doesnt have t be limited to that either. Maybe DL just is more survivavble because of the boss mechanics in a certain encounter. Maybe drain and other skills like it just piss mob X off more than a nomral taunt.

    Yeah Dire Lord being able to have better threat due to the certain boss mechanics could also work well aswell. 

    I didn't play EQ when it was out and popular, I didn't start playing mmo's until 2001 and my first was DAoC. Did Warrior's do more dmg back then compared to Shadow Knights and Paladins? This kind of suprised me since I got the impression that Warrior was only useful for tanking in those days. Pretty interesting. 

    • 2013 posts
    January 19, 2017 9:50 AM PST
    @Stephen
    My post was speculation based on expectations and past experiences from other games and fantasy novels. So didn't want you to think I habe some special EQ knowledge because I dont. Never played it but have studied up on it some. I'm a FFXI vet so just thought I should clarify.
    • 271 posts
    January 19, 2017 10:00 AM PST

    Amsai said: Never played [EQ]...  I'm a FFXI vet.

    It's really interesting to see how people's expectations change based on their experience with other games.  Especially when the games are separated by a lot of time or highlight differences in Western and Eastern game design.  I also think it's cool that Pantheon attracts gamers from all over the spectrum.

    • 2013 posts
    January 19, 2017 10:50 AM PST

    Thanks Shai. And yes there are quite a few of us displaced players from a handful of oldschool MMOs looking forward to Pantheon. Some Because their game doesnt exist anymore (VG). Some Because their game no longer resembles what the game once was (FFXI). And other games for sure. Many of us see this as our last hope same as EQ folks. Unfortunately that also means opinions colide on what constitutes oldschool lol. I try to have an open mind about other older MMOs and most of the EQ folks here have been welcoming. I know this was a bit off topic but just wanted to say I appreciate it.

    • 2542 posts
    January 19, 2017 3:36 PM PST

    Stephen said:

    Yeah Dire Lord being able to have better threat due to the certain boss mechanics could also work well aswell. 

    I didn't play EQ when it was out and popular, I didn't start playing mmo's until 2001 and my first was DAoC. Did Warrior's do more dmg back then compared to Shadow Knights and Paladins? This kind of suprised me since I got the impression that Warrior was only useful for tanking in those days. Pretty interesting. 

     

    Back in early EQ warriors definitely did more damage than the other tanks, they also had critical hits (2x) and if they could keep their HP at 40% or lower then ho boy those crippling blows (3x damage) could really blow the lid off. Warriors had to rely on their damage/weapon procs (they had dual wield so potential for double weapon procs in a round of attack) to hold aggro most of the time as the taunt button often wasn't quite enough. The hybrid tanks had spells that generated a lot of hate so they were commonly better for "oh ****" moments.