Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

Forest/Zone Bottleneck in Pantheon?

    • 106 posts
    January 16, 2017 6:48 PM PST

    I was running around Gfay and i realized that when im in that zone i take the same path everytime im in the zone, i zone into gfay from ither BB, or Lfay then i run to one of the elve towns or to crusbone then i take the same path back to one of the zoneouts. A forest is something you should be able to enter and leave in any direction, If you look at a map of Norrath all the forests are in great intersection points and border many zones but due to bottleneck zonelines the forests of Norrath are basicly borderless. A dangerous forest like kithicor, or Lfay you should be able to take the long way around the treeline for safety, and risk the dangers that are within to cut 15 or 20 mins off your travel time. A forest or zone with a bottleneck zoneline will remain largly unexplored and give even player characters mondane pathing. The Karanas for the most part do not have bottleneck zonelines and i wish this was more prevalent in everquest zones. If you think of all the things that border a forest in the fantasy genre then you take in account the borderless forests you realize how much content is really missing in norrath, a great game but largly unfinnished.

    • 3016 posts
    January 16, 2017 6:53 PM PST

    munge said:

    I was running around Gfay and i realized that when im in that zone i take the same path everytime im in the zone, i zone into gfay from ither BB, or Lfay then i run to one of the elve towns or to crusbone then i take the same path back to one of the zoneouts. A forest is something you should be able to enter and leave in any direction, If you look at a map of Norrath all the forests are in great intersection points and border many zones but due to bottleneck zonelines the forests of Norrath are basicly borderless. A dangerous forest like kithicor, or Lfay you should be able to take the long way around the treeline for safety, and risk the dangers that are within to cut 15 or 20 mins off your travel time. A forest or zone with a bottleneck zoneline will remain largly unexplored and give even player characters mondane pathing. The Karanas for the most part do not have bottleneck zonelines and i wish this was more prevalent in everquest zones. If you think of all the things that border a forest in the fantasy genre then you take in account the borderless forests you realize how much content is really missing in norrath, a great game but largly unfinnished.

     

    I seem to remember following the zoneline to stay out of the clutches of the undead etc in Kithicor.   

    • 780 posts
    January 16, 2017 7:12 PM PST

    I think he means he doesn't like the canyon-like zone-outs from Gfay to Lfay or to BB and thinks that forest zones should have zone-outs that stretch across the zone like from EC to WFP or EC to WC.  I don't have any problem with that, but you could argue that the canyon thing makes sense when you are going to BB since you're entering the mountains and you could argue that the canyon thing going to LFay is a geographic feature that actually differentiates Greater Faydark from Lesser Faydark.  I'm sure they'll do a great job making the zone-ins and zone-outs seem natural.

    • 169 posts
    January 16, 2017 8:39 PM PST

    What was nice about those small zone outs was that it was harder to use them as an escape route.  You are probably right that it doesn't make much sense though.  I liked how the zone was done in Kunark.  It was diffciult to find the zone wall, mobs wandered all over the place, and it was hard to locate dungeons/zone lines.  I wasn't a huge fan of the artwork, but the setup was fairly confusing to me.  I often had difficulty finding my way around there (which is good).  Gfay was probably my favorite starting place, but I'll admit most of it was fairly empty except for bees, bats, faries, and the occasional orc pawns.  Hopefully they do a better job with making the forests feel like they are dangerous places.  Kithicor was the only route from the Karana's to the Commonlands I guess.  I think both Highpass and Beholder's Maze lead to it.  Most other dangerous places in the game could be bypassed using safer routes.  I'm not sure I would want there to be a safe way to travel around all over though.  Part of the fun is being forced into going through zones like that.

    • 839 posts
    January 16, 2017 9:27 PM PST

    Its an interesting thought whether they will have mainly open edged zones or not, where there is an impassable mountain then it makes sense to have a valley to pass through and that would create the kind of bottle neck you mean.

    I guess it will just depend on if they have zone walls formed with mountains or not, if a zone is in the middle of a forrest you would expect there to be no walls preventing access so lets hope they keep that in mind, i am sure these details will be executed correctly I am sure they will be sculpting the world all these connections in mind so the zones flow nicely onto each other and make sense, lets hope anyways!

    • 9115 posts
    January 16, 2017 10:09 PM PST

    I have renamed the thread to add "in Pantheon?" so this topic can stay in General Pantheon, even though it largely refers to EQ...if you post something in General Pantheon, please make sure it is titled and worded to incorporate Pantheon in some way otherwise you run the risk of having your post moved to a less viewed subforum.


    This post was edited by VR-Mod1 at January 17, 2017 2:16 AM PST
    • 106 posts
    January 16, 2017 11:59 PM PST

    I would just like to see a little contrast between terrain changes. Forests, deserts, swamps and lakes bordering eachother is practicly non existing in everquest. on a pvp server you can't run for the treeline to escape baddies, you can't hide in the treeline and ambush baddies that enter the forest. On the eastern treeline there isent a meadow for hunting deer , on the southern border of the forest there isent an ocean cliff where u can dive into the water below and swim out into the ocean of tears. Orc lands don't border the forest to the north, instead there is a mountain range with a bottleneck zone ent. Instead of finding your favorite path through the the changing terrains, instead there is only 1 path to take and that is the path that leads from one bottleneck mountain crack to the next.  

    • 780 posts
    January 17, 2017 5:06 AM PST

    I don't think that's going to happen in PRF.  I think we'll see zones that are much more complex and sometimes include several types of terrain like you are indicating.

    • 170 posts
    January 17, 2017 5:30 AM PST

    I see what you're saying and I personally think that a combination of different ways to zone would be cool. Some like you say are a forest zone and I walk through trees for a while in any direction and eventually I zone. Also, I see the need for canyons to a zone line like to high hold pass 1 way in 1 way out. I personally believe we'll see a combination what I am hoping is we will also see the hidden ones like to get to Plane of Fear or the wall for evil characters to get to the boat in freeport. I think this team is experienced enough to give us options without fast travel and with risk/reward in mind. Like if it's dark in Kithicor I could see forcing us at times to get close to or sprint through the undead not being able to completely avoid them.

    • 191 posts
    January 17, 2017 8:01 AM PST

    Allowing players to trade risk for travel time is a great design tenet.  Its interesting, natural, and fun.  I hope it's widely implemented in Terminus.

     

    That said, the experience that we're talking about doesn't rely on the concept of "zones;" it's actually better without them.  I still can't believe we're talking about zones in 2017.

    • 2886 posts
    May 22, 2017 1:01 PM PDT

    From Aradune:

    "It is not a grid of Vanguard chunks -- Pantheon is a zoned based world.  But the zones, especially the outdoor zones, are very large and it's easy for us to make them look correct, adjacent to each other.  We are striving for the 'if you can see it, you can get there' goal.  So we don't need to 'funnel' you through from one zone to another like we often had to in EQ.  So while it's technically more like EQ, it feels more like VG.  It's more open, the zones are larger (so you will see the 'loading please wait' less frequently, and the zones load pretty quickly), and we don't need to make those strange corridors between zones like we did with EQ."

    (Source: https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/2184/updated-map)


    This post was edited by Bazgrim at May 22, 2017 1:01 PM PDT
    • 578 posts
    May 22, 2017 8:56 PM PDT

    Yo, Baz can practically cite any quote made from any dev made at any time. He can prolly quote regular members from the forums if he wanted to. He knows every discussion that's been made and can link you its web address at the flick of an instant. lol

    Pretty sure you have reached max level in Pantheon's Perception Skill subcategory: Forums Lore and should be granted the title Forums Lore Keeper. ;D

     

     

    • 3016 posts
    May 22, 2017 9:26 PM PDT

    NoobieDoo said:

    Yo, Baz can practically cite any quote made from any dev made at any time. He can prolly quote regular members from the forums if he wanted to. He knows every discussion that's been made and can link you its web address at the flick of an instant. lol

    Pretty sure you have reached max level in Pantheon's Perception Skill subcategory: Forums Lore and should be granted the title Forums Lore Keeper. ;D

     

     

    And I would imagine he's a great help to Kilsin in doing so,  that title seems to fit Baz. :)

    • 2886 posts
    May 23, 2017 6:01 AM PDT

    Lol this one was actually the opposite of normal - I found the quote from Aradune while digging, and then remembered there was a thread about that exact topic. So I figured I might as well necro it and just plug in the official answer, just in case it came up again :)

    • 432 posts
    May 23, 2017 10:42 PM PDT

    NoobieDoo said:

    Yo, Baz can practically cite any quote made from any dev made at any time. He can prolly quote regular members from the forums if he wanted to. He knows every discussion that's been made and can link you its web address

     

    But can Baz tell why kids love cinnamon toast crunch?

     

    @_@

     

     

    ...sorry, I had to.

     

    -Todd