Zorkon said:Liav said:Beefcake said:Prominus said:Liav said:Saoirse said:Hmm encumbered... limited bag space, no global banks, need for gear for different group needs, plus gear to fit weather needs. Screams 30 mule alts just to play one or two main chars.
Yeah, I'm not looking forward to mules.
Agreed. Just give us the bank space or option to get bank space. One way or the other we are going to store our items. Having to make and run alts around to do it is ridiculous.
Yup, and with the unlimited bank space, they should just give you epic weapon and gear. No restrictions. Max level, day one.
What do epic weapons, gear, and levels have to do with banks?
Wanting everything handed to them and easy, instead of building it (bank space) by like adding backpacks or crafting boxes to increase your space, Removing the RPG from the MMORPG and turning it into a (what do they call it) MOBA (battle arena).
He made sence to me, I totally understood it.
Made sense to me as well, not sure where he lost you.
geatz said:If you are going to inject preconceived ideas about this game at least use early EQ as an example...
A worthwhile point. Game dynamics change over time, and while well-designed systems and vigilent maintenance reduce the effect, old games and new games are very different and EQ is one of the /oldest/ games.
geatz said:Zorkon said:Liav said:Beefcake said:Prominus said:Liav said:Saoirse said:Hmm encumbered... limited bag space, no global banks, need for gear for different group needs, plus gear to fit weather needs. Screams 30 mule alts just to play one or two main chars.
Yeah, I'm not looking forward to mules.
Agreed. Just give us the bank space or option to get bank space. One way or the other we are going to store our items. Having to make and run alts around to do it is ridiculous.
Yup, and with the unlimited bank space, they should just give you epic weapon and gear. No restrictions. Max level, day one.
What do epic weapons, gear, and levels have to do with banks?
Wanting everything handed to them and easy, instead of building it (bank space) by like adding backpacks or crafting boxes to increase your space, Removing the RPG from the MMORPG and turning it into a (what do they call it) MOBA (battle arena).
He made sence to me, I totally understood it.
Made sense to me as well, not sure where he lost you.
Well let's break down how it does not make sense. First of all I stated just give us bank space or the option to get it. The option to receive more bank space could be any number of things I really don't care what as long as the option is there. That has nothing to do with it being handed out.
So the part that does not make sense is comparing it to gear levels and weapons etc. I will break this down into example for those that have trouble understanding.
Example #1: Devs do not give out levels and gear and epic items for free.
Solution #1: Nothing. There is no solution
Example #2: Devs do not give out enough bank space
Solution #2: Create multiple characters named safdadsf,asfdsfds,sdfsfad and Bank1112,Bank1113,Bank1114, Items00001 and run them all over the world to store the items anyways.
Therefore it would make sense to have a lot of bank space or the option to improve it because limiting it will be defeated anyways.
Prominus said:geatz said:Zorkon said:Liav said:Beefcake said:Prominus said:Liav said:Saoirse said:Hmm encumbered... limited bag space, no global banks, need for gear for different group needs, plus gear to fit weather needs. Screams 30 mule alts just to play one or two main chars.
Yeah, I'm not looking forward to mules.
Agreed. Just give us the bank space or option to get bank space. One way or the other we are going to store our items. Having to make and run alts around to do it is ridiculous.
Yup, and with the unlimited bank space, they should just give you epic weapon and gear. No restrictions. Max level, day one.
What do epic weapons, gear, and levels have to do with banks?
Wanting everything handed to them and easy, instead of building it (bank space) by like adding backpacks or crafting boxes to increase your space, Removing the RPG from the MMORPG and turning it into a (what do they call it) MOBA (battle arena).
He made sence to me, I totally understood it.
Made sense to me as well, not sure where he lost you.
Well let's break down how it does not make sense. First of all I stated just give us bank space or the option to get it. The option to receive more bank space could be any number of things I really don't care what as long as the option is there. That has nothing to do with it being handed out.
So the part that does not make sense is comparing it to gear levels and weapons etc. I will break this down into example for those that have trouble understanding.
Example #1: Devs do not give out levels and gear and epic items for free.
Solution #1: Nothing. There is no solution
Example #2: Devs do not give out enough bank space
Solution #2: Create multiple characters named safdadsf,asfdsfds,sdfsfad and Bank1112,Bank1113,Bank1114, Items00001 and run them all over the world to store the items anyways.
Therefore it would make sense to have a lot of bank space or the option to improve it because limiting it will be defeated anyways.
One of the reasons I don't come here much anymore is because no matter what the subject is some intellectual giant will come on and claim you "just want everything handed to you" or you "just want a WoW clone" or something else equally brilliant.
One part of encumbrance in Pantheon that isn't working the way I like is how money is handled. Right now, money automatically changes to the next highest denomination. I would prefer that coin management which is part of encumbrance gets put back into the game.
I also like flavor systems like how Monks in EQ and how weight influence them.
If you are going to inject preconceived ideas about this game at least use early EQ as an example since the developers are obviously looking to build upon that game.
Just thought the bold part was kind of funny. Who is having preconceived ideas? On top of which I was just pulling a number ouf of the air. That being said, with the situational gear, its likely you will need to keep and store very many full sets of gear as in some cases of tier 3 and 4 Auras/Atmospheres will be unsurvivable according to the devs without being properly prepared. I think that in some cases you might have to fore go BiS in favor of survival. Im pretty sure they will make this doable in most situations with a combo of gear/skills and you will likely be able to craft or buy at least basic weather/aura gear. Yea it might not have the best stats but at least you wont be dying faster than your healer can heal. So Im not building off of preconceived notions. Im making assumptions off of one of the very real major features of this game.
But even so I think what Searril said is worth a second quote:
One of the reasons I don't come here much anymore is because no matter what the subject is some intellectual giant will come on and claim you "just want everything handed to you" or you "just want a WoW clone" or something else equally brilliant.
No one should be made to feel this way. And there is definitely some truth to what he says. People need to chill out a bit and not jump to conclusions either. Im not sure anyone was asking for all the space we ever wanted for free. Just that there needs to be systems in place to accomodate that need, which could be quested, bought, rented, crafted, raised (beast of burden). But I did say that the Devs might want to make the Bank starting size larger, but that was because of assumptions I made about the Atmospheres system. If my assumptions are wrong then fine not a big deal.
bigdogchris said:One part of encumbrance in Pantheon that isn't working the way I like is how money is handled. Right now money automatically changes to the next highest denomination. I would prefer that coin management which is part of encumbrance gets put back into the game.
I agree with this.
copper should not magically change into silver->gold->platnum.
Unless there is some good lore reason for it?
Beefcake said:In my old MUD, you use to have to pay 10% to the banker to minimize your coins. Always had to remember to get rid of your gold and plat first, so they didn't count in the fee.
I don't know how popular this will actually be in practice, but I love this idea.
Also, going on the idea of a cashiers check, one could 'buy' a bank note worth X, costing them X+Y%. This could allow someone to transport cash more easily. They could then cash out the note at another bank.
I can't say I'm a big fan of the mechanic but it does make for humorous situations at times. I remember when I was first starting out in EQ, was probably in my 20s by this point but still new to the game. A max level player ran up to me and asked if this was my main, which it was. He said he was retiring from the game and wanted to pass on some of his good fortune to a new player and asked if I'd like something. I said sure and he gave me a bunch of gear and a ton of coin. Literally. I was so encumbered it took me something like 30 mintues just to waddle to a bank. LOL
Fun times.
My second ever toon I created in EQ was a human cleric. Around level 19 I was in Highpass killing Orcs and had a full set of med bronze armor. I loved that toon, but with the low strength of a human cleric and the high weight of med bronze, I was maxxed weight with empty bags. Loot one item and was encumbered. Never played him again. When RoK released I created an Iksar monk but monks had very low weight allowances so I could not loot much before he would become encumbered.
Even with these experiences, I still like the idea of weight limits and encumberance....just maybe a little more forgiving than early EQ would be nice :)
I'm of the opinion that things like bank space and encumbrance are just beneath consideration. Maybe that's just me, but when they removed coin weight from EQ it was one of the best changes I personally think they ever made. Additionally, 100% WR bags with huge slot sizes (20+) to avoid the need to use banks much was also something I liked.
It gives me more time to focus on the parts of the game I actually care about as opposed to micromanaging 50 things before I even consider joining a group or something. I don't like micromanagement.
That said, I'll deal with it like I have to. The bank situation in DAoC is terrible for instance, so I just have a ton of mules on my buffbot account that I use to store everything. Does that improve the game at all for me? Nope.
Beez said: Does it have to be in a bank I was thonking how awsome if we could hide stash around the world hehe Imagine you've got a crazy heavy loot but you can't carry it away instead you stash it booby trap it and then camouflage it to return another time to pick it up but then again it would be possible to get it stolenow hehe
This would be very cool! Get a shovel and dig a few holes and bury gear lol! If you couldnt trap it then you would have to worry about treasure hunter players just digging up every square inch of dirt!
Sounds like a fun idea :)
Ozmani said:I can't say I'm a big fan of the mechanic but it does make for humorous situations at times. I remember when I was first starting out in EQ, was probably in my 20s by this point but still new to the game. A max level player ran up to me and asked if this was my main, which it was. He said he was retiring from the game and wanted to pass on some of his good fortune to a new player and asked if I'd like something. I said sure and he gave me a bunch of gear and a ton of coin. Literally. I was so encumbered it took me something like 30 mintues just to waddle to a bank. LOL
Fun times.
Haha nice score! And it was always funny to see that character walking slowly through a zone, you knew where he/she was going and I would stop to try and drop a +Str / SoW or offer a teleport on them to help out!
Zorkon said:Liav said:Beefcake said:Prominus said:Liav said:Saoirse said:Hmm encumbered... limited bag space, no global banks, need for gear for different group needs, plus gear to fit weather needs. Screams 30 mule alts just to play one or two main chars.
Yeah, I'm not looking forward to mules.
Agreed. Just give us the bank space or option to get bank space. One way or the other we are going to store our items. Having to make and run alts around to do it is ridiculous.
Yup, and with the unlimited bank space, they should just give you epic weapon and gear. No restrictions. Max level, day one.
What do epic weapons, gear, and levels have to do with banks?
Wanting everything handed to them and easy, instead of building it (bank space) by like adding backpacks or crafting boxes to increase your space, Removing the RPG from the MMORPG and turning it into a (what do they call it) MOBA (battle arena).
He made sence to me, I totally understood it.
I think it's a bit of a stretch to jump from someone wanting to make sure there is plenty of bank space to store items without having to create mules to assuming people want "everything handed to them".
azaya said:bigdogchris said:One part of encumbrance in Pantheon that isn't working the way I like is how money is handled. Right now money automatically changes to the next highest denomination. I would prefer that coin management which is part of encumbrance gets put back into the game.
I agree with this.
copper should not magically change into silver->gold->platnum.
Unless there is some good lore reason for it?
I agree with this as well. I'd rather not have coin magically change form.
I also like the encumbrance system for many reasons. It gave you a reason to plan ahead and not take a bunch of unnecessary stuff with you. It gave you reason to return to town where socialization was more likely. It made you prioritize what you stored, and forced you to let go of silly things that you really didnt need at all and were just cluttering up your storage, often by selling them and putting them out into the economy where they could be put to use by someone they actually benefited.
I see no value in having a system that would allow you to do nothing but grind away for xp without any interaction with any other facets of the game for days or weeks on end, except perhaps to find a merchant convenient set up right outside a dungeon that you can sell all the trash drops to. I would much prefer that the gameplay experience be a simulation, rather than nothing more than an eloborate whack-a-mole competition to reach max level as quickly as possible.
dorotea said:I must say I do not miss being unable to move because of carrying goods/money. I do not miss having to manage food/drink lest I starve to death. I do not miss extensive management of arrows/bolts/shurikens/thrrowing hammers lest I have nothing to pull with when I *really* do not want to use a body pull.
Looks like I'm in the minority as usual - not even remotely surprising (I shareth not the common nostalgia for the primitive days of early MMOs - I like the focus on grouping and socializing, slow leveling, death penalties etc. but I do feel that the interfaces and mechanics have improved enormously since 1999 and am not looking to go back),
I have to ask, arent there literally 100's of games that are built much more in line with your desires? I think it's entirely valid for their to be literally one game's development forum in which you're in the minority, and to which is targeted at something other than the mass market approach of every other studio. Why must this game conform?
Concept of encumberance and limited space is very appealing to a MMORPG. Having those things would be an attractive feature for me. Having to manage resources is part and parcel of the game to encourage interaction with the environment. Not having an unlimited amount of arrows or throwing daggers or food and drink is a rather important function. So when it comes to encumberance perhaps lighterweight consumables may not have as much of an affect as heavier weight consumables - as one sort of trade-off to encourage different management of resources regarding encumberance and limited space.
Critters for whacking aren't the only feature of game environments that are required for interraction and consideration. I also do not believe that managing resources places a huge burden on players of the game any different than other features of the game. It is, actually, something that can be learned as one progresses. It may seem daunting when you first start out but when you first start out you have nothing and you can't get very much and you are limited in what can be done due simply to your not having progressed. As you progress and you discover more abilities and different ways to play the game you discover things like encumberance and food and drink and other consumables like arrows and daggers. It's an indication of progression.
If it really is an absolute burden and a construct that is so difficult to manage as will be hashed out during testing phases then, by all means, scrap it. No sense implementing things so difficult and burdensome that it will cause players to avoid the game in droves and drop their subscriptions.
muscoby said:Concept of encumberance and limited space is very appealing to a MMORPG. Having those things would be an attractive feature for me. Having to manage resources is part and parcel of the game to encourage interaction with the environment. Not having an unlimited amount of arrows or throwing daggers or food and drink is a rather important function. So when it comes to encumberance perhaps lighterweight consumables may not have as much of an affect as heavier weight consumables - as one sort of trade-off to encourage different management of resources regarding encumberance and limited space.
Critters for whacking aren't the only feature of game environments that are required for interraction and consideration. I also do not believe that managing resources places a huge burden on players of the game any different than other features of the game. It is, actually, something that can be learned as one progresses. It may seem daunting when you first start out but when you first start out you have nothing and you can't get very much and you are limited in what can be done due simply to your not having progressed. As you progress and you discover more abilities and different ways to play the game you discover things like encumberance and food and drink and other consumables like arrows and daggers. It's an indication of progression.
If it really is an absolute burden and a construct that is so difficult to manage as will be hashed out during testing phases then, by all means, scrap it. No sense implementing things so difficult and burdensome that it will cause players to avoid the game in droves and drop their subscriptions.
All nicely said, especially the bold!