Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

What changes players from blasting to max level at launch?

    • 3237 posts
    January 17, 2017 5:52 AM PST

    Has there been any consideration to implement an AA system into the game at launch?  As I mentioned previously in this thread, I think it would be a great way to allow additional progression opportunities that cannot be "grinded out."  If you can only advance AA's through quests or by other means that have nothing to do with grinding, it would incentivize people to complete as much content as possible while they level up.  It could almost get to the point where AA's become necessary.  Combine this with real gear progression, spell progression, the Rites of Passage system, and very difficult content ... and you have yourself a pretty safe bet that all playstyles will be striving for that "dynamic" advantage.  If the AA's are implemented, they should carry over when someone utilizes Progeny.  This way, someone can grind their way to 50, going whatever path their heart desires, and on their second run of leveling (Progeny) they can go an entirely different route to try and experience any of the content that they missed on their first run.

    I really want to hear more about the Progeny system.  I hope it's more than just some tiny stat boon.  If grinding to max level is going to be as big of an obstacle as it's being made out to be, there should be some incentive for going through that twice.  If you think about it, it's really going to put a delay on end-game content.  I think it would be cool if there was a raid zone that can only be unlocked if someone successfully completes the progeny system (hit max level twice)  --  if not raid zone, maybe an ultimate spell, or something like that.  But if it's just a tiny stat boon ... it's going to be hard for anybody in the raiding community to go through the Progeny system as it will hinder theirs and their guilds raid progression by a pretty substantial amount of time.

    I think spell progression being tied into Progeny could be worthwhile.  Maybe have a "Grandmaster" tier of spells that can only be unlocked through a successful progeny campaign.  If someone wants Grandmaster quality for all of their spells ... well, they're going to need to make a massive investment into the system and I think the replayability factor becomes much more worthwhile for the min/maxers.  I guess a 5% stat buff would also be a reasonable alternative.  I think if someone invests that much time into their character, whereas they are willing to grind to max level FOUR times, they should be 15% stronger than anybody else that hasn't done it.  It would have to be capped at some point obviously but I don't really see players becoming "OP" because instead of gearing themselves out with raid gear (short term investment) they'd be focused on the long haul by building their characters with permanent buffs.

     

     

     

    • 3016 posts
    January 17, 2017 7:56 AM PST

    Hum if you're competitive, and really care about others rushing ahead,  you're gonna have to keep up..OR play the game at your pace, which is what I intend to do.   I'm not in competition,  I play, craft, explore, adventure, socialize because that's what I enjoy.    No keeping up with the Jones at my house. :)

    • 3237 posts
    January 17, 2017 8:04 AM PST

    Stephen said:

     

    I for one am happy about this.  The last game I played that restricted the amount of XP someone gained and tried to limit the people blasting to max level was FFXIV 1.0... everyone knows how well that went over.  I can understand why some would want a system to deter people from doing it, but I think penalizing everyone else is not the way to do it. 

    I'm done trying to push my gameplay style on others or letting the way other people play effect how I play.  This community will have min/maxers, rushers, casuals, hardcord, etc... it will be impossible to make everyone happy.  Due to that range, everyone will have people to play with no matter what your cup of tea is.  At least that is what I'm hoping.  Nothing but love :)

    I'm not sure how FFXIV done it early on because I didn't play it until a little bit after launch for a few reasons but some ideas mentioned on the thread actually seem legit fun. 

    Anyways I'm not hoping for any new innovation, I just hope they make the leveling time/mob difficulty very similiar to EQ classic so it still takes us hardcore crowd atleast 3 weeks to hit cap.


    The first edition of FFXIV was absolutely horrible.  Getting anywhere in the game took FOREVER and you only had a few limited teleport options.  It was like 3 total for the lifetime of your account or something like that.  After that it was always running around.  It was so hard to group because of how long it took to get anywhere.  It could literally take you 45 minutes to get to the destination by which point the group may have already found someone else or dissolved altogether.  They did require you to group in order to XP at a decent rate and I'm fine with that ... but limiting the quick travel options to 3 total over the lifespan of your account was just horrible design.  They ended up changing from one extreme to the other though by then making it too easy to level up.  It's tough to balance.  I'm fine with meaningful travel time and all that but not to the point where it is just a time sink.  To an extent, sure, but not just for the sake of making it overly tedious.  This kills grouping potential.  It also makes it so that the people who only have 2 hours a day to play will never be able to advance their characters because they'll spend more time going to and fro than actually playing content.

    • 1303 posts
    January 17, 2017 9:29 AM PST

    Stephen said:

    I see a lot of people saying "I don't care if people rush, let them do what they want, it doesn't matter if they get 50 in 4 days" but I just want to point out that a lot of players that are competetive(and there is a lot of us nowadays) don't want it to be fast. Personally regardless it's in my nature to be one of the first on the server to ding cap and work on getting the best items, I dunno why but it just is the way I am and a lot of other people aswell. But that doesn't mean I don't care how long it will take me to hit cap, I want it to take atleast 3 weeks if possible to do. I know making it take 2 months or whatever is asking way to much because then it will seem way much like lineage back in the days for the casual crowd lol but I want I still want the satisfaction like the 90's/early 2000's where I was like "damn!" that felt like I actually worked for it.

    Every mmo I have played in the past decade I have hit cap after launch in 1-3 days and even though a lot of you might say "oh well that is your own fault", your absolutley right but even for casuals thats still only like 2-3 weeks for cap(are you guys fine with that?).

    The main point i'm trying to make is even though we are competetive and rush to cap and get the best items as fast as possible doesn't mean it should be easily done like it has been the past decade for mmo's. I'm happy as long as it takes me 2.5-3 weeks to hit cap, I don't think that is much to ask from an inspired classic EQ mmo for playing 16 hours a day early on.

    If it takes the most hardcore, poopsocking powerlever only 3 months to reach cap I'll be deeply disappointed.  I fully hope it takes a casual 2-4 hour a night player (me) a solid year to hit cap. 

     

    • 1434 posts
    January 17, 2017 9:34 AM PST

    If it will take you a year at 2-4 hours a night, it will take the hardcore players less than 3 months. Honestly if it's taking hardcore 3 months go hit cap, we're in good shape.

    • 60 posts
    January 17, 2017 10:26 AM PST

    Dullahan said:

    If it will take you a year at 2-4 hours a night, it will take the hardcore players less than 3 months. Honestly if it's taking hardcore 3 months go hit cap, we're in good shape.

    I hope it is like this also but I highly doubt it will that's why I'm realistically happy with say it taking me 3 weeks to hit max if I play 18 hours a day at launch. But god I would love if it was way longer but realistically I don't think it will.

    • 19 posts
    January 17, 2017 10:41 AM PST

    Stephen said:

    I'm not sure how FFXIV done it early on because I didn't play it until a little bit after launch for a few reasons but some ideas mentioned on the thread actually seem legit fun. 

    Anyways I'm not hoping for any new innovation, I just hope they make the leveling time/mob difficulty very similiar to EQ classic so it still takes us hardcore crowd atleast 3 weeks to hit cap.



    Here is the copy/paste from the Fatigue System wiki page on how FFXIV 1.0 did their "restriction".

    The Fatigue System was a feature in Final Fantasy XIV which slowly reduced EXP and skill points for players after a certain time limit. A controversial topic since the game's release, the fatigue system was finally removed as of patch 1.18. This system was in place to prevent excessive leveling, and was a penalty to gained experience and skill points. Upon gaining a certain amount of skill points on a specific class, the player might have start gaining "surplus" points on that class, that would not count towards the total.

    The reduction was gradual and began at 10% reduced points, but could supposedly reach a point where the player would completely stop gaining skill points should they keep leveling, although there was no known case of a player reaching that point. The skill point gain message and the color of the player's current skill/experience points changed when in fatigue.

    Fatigue was completely reset every week after the first skill point gain of that class after last fatigue reset (if you changed your class to a gladiator and got your first skill point on a Monday, your fatigue would be reset next Monday, even if you didn't reach surplus). Also, fatigue slowly reduced should the player start leveling another class, or simply stopped playing, encouraging the player to level multiple classes.

    • 175 posts
    January 17, 2017 12:19 PM PST

    Time to level, travel for groups, etc. should not be about the time sink. They should be about the world itself having meaning.

    Slower levelling should have a few main purposes:

    Understand your class and how it functions.

    In EQ you could usually tell if a player bought/borrowed the character they were playing on. There was no substitute for time played. Knowing which spells were needed, the timing in groups/fights, etc. Now adays they have mods/rotations that can make you 90% efficient the day you start. I'm hoping (at least the streams have indicated) the combat is much more hands-on and strategic.

    Get to know the world (at least your section of it) more intimately

    My first character in EQ was a Dark Elf. Figuring out Nektulos Forest and Neriak (let alone the Foreign Quarter) was made possible because I spent so long there. As I moved on to other zones (Commonlands and Lavastorm Mtns) it was exciting to know I would be there longer than the next few hours. Same was true for wood elves, dwarves, barbians... all of them.

    And dungeons were a truly unique experience from today's hand-held piffle. You didn't spend 45 minutes in an instance... you spent weeks working your way deeper and deeper. Figuring out mob rotations, hidden areas, traps and tricks. Not to mention dealing with others doing the same triggering trains and whatnot.

    Purpose to do things other than level while you level (like crafting)

    One of my biggest gripes in games (at least for your first character), there's no point to levelling crafting early on. You easily out-level anything you can make, or you have to be higher level to get the materials to make something that is under-levelled once you make it. In EQ, even the crappy "white" spear the mob dropped was a huge boon, either for money or damage. In some cases, getting/making an item was almost necessary to continue levelling. Please bring that back! Make our "gear meaningful!"

    "Meaningful travel"(a weird term imo) is about:

    Give meaning to factions and locations

    Getting to an area to level, or a dungeon to traverse should be dangerous and yes, in some ways, tedious. First off, it gave "meaning" to travel spells employed by Druids and Wizards, not to mention speed buffs (Bards ftw!). Even my wife who never played a day of EQ in her life knows what SoW is! The more rewarding the location, the more dangerous and time consuming it should be to get there. Nothing kills the size and scope of a world like fast travel, group finder travel, flying, etc. You could fly in EQ, but it took a Bard to do it.

    Factions should matter and having to travel between areas gives a sense of that factions lore and history. It also makes it difficult to play with opposing factions and this is important for the feeling of the peoples of the world. Case in point, my brother decided to bring his Barbarian over to Lavastorm to do some Najena exploring. Not only did it take a whopping amount of travel at that level, but once he was ready to level up/sell goods he had to travel to some place that didn't hate him on site. Having to run there gave a real sense that you were in foreign lands and weren't welcome. If he could have just popped back to Halas, then immediately rejoined us... it would completely kill any sense of the world having shape and form. And it does in every game since.

    Make levelling mean something

    There's nothing like hitting that level where you finally got SoW, or Breeze, or any of those spells that were not directly related to combat but gave your class a sense of ownership and pride. It also made a huge impact on your ability to travel. Same with spells that let you get around the world. When a person asks for a teleport to Dalaran, it was mostly for convenience. Even without a flying mount, getting to Dalaran is a matter of 15-20 mins from pratically anywhere in the world, and that's easily the most difficult city to get to. In EQ, you want to go to Felwithe from Freeport? Better catch that boat on time or you could be waiting for 30-60 minutes before you could take the 15 min ride to get to the other continent. Now that wizard/druid port has a lot more meaning and a lot more willingness to find and pay one to give me a quick ride.

    A sense of danger is something to look foward to. In EQ, sometimes it just was not worth the travel time until you were high enough level to make the trip. Kithicor forest gets regular mentions on how "cool" it was. But so were dungeons and special mob locations and anywhere you could see and couldn't go because it was just too dangerous. And it wasn't a matter of days... sometimes week or months before you could truly experience the wonder of what always lay just over the horizon. I so want this back in this game. I'll be terribly disappointed if it's not there.

    These are just a few thoughts on why slow levelling and travel should be part of the game. If it's not, you will utterly kill any sense of the world and your place in it.


    This post was edited by Archaen at January 17, 2017 12:19 PM PST
    • 1860 posts
    January 17, 2017 12:55 PM PST

    oneADseven said:

    I really want to hear more about the Progeny system.  I hope it's more than just some tiny stat boon.  If grinding to max level is going to be as big of an obstacle as it's being made out to be, there should be some incentive for going through that twice.  If you think about it, it's really going to put a delay on end-game content.  I think it would be cool if there was a raid zone that can only be unlocked if someone successfully completes the progeny system (hit max level twice)  --  if not raid zone, maybe an ultimate spell, or something like that.  But if it's just a tiny stat boon ... it's going to be hard for anybody in the raiding community to go through the Progeny system as it will hinder theirs and their guilds raid progression by a pretty substantial amount of time.

    I think spell progression being tied into Progeny could be worthwhile.  Maybe have a "Grandmaster" tier of spells that can only be unlocked through a successful progeny campaign.  If someone wants Grandmaster quality for all of their spells ... well, they're going to need to make a massive investment into the system and I think the replayability factor becomes much more worthwhile for the min/maxers.  I guess a 5% stat buff would also be a reasonable alternative.  I think if someone invests that much time into their character, whereas they are willing to grind to max level FOUR times, they should be 15% stronger than anybody else that hasn't done it.  It would have to be capped at some point obviously but I don't really see players becoming "OP" because instead of gearing themselves out with raid gear (short term investment) they'd be focused on the long haul by building their characters with permanent buffs.

    I like your thought process.  I'm not sure if I agree with 100% of it, but I too very much want to hear more about progeny incentives.

    I agree when you say " If grinding to max level is going to be as big of an obstacle as it's being made out to be, there should be some incentive for going through that twice."  But I both agree and disagree with the follow up part where you said : "But if it's just a tiny stat boon ... it's going to be hard for anybody in the raiding community to go through the Progeny system as it will hinder theirs and their guilds raid progression by a pretty substantial amount of time."

    It will definitely hinder raiding.  Or put it on hold temporarily.  I think the min maxers will be ok with a small stat bonus even to play through a long, multi month, grind.  Though I guess it does depend on how small of a stat bonus.  If it was 3 or 5% to one stat maybe not. (assuming it isn't stackable and you can only get that specific incentive once). 

    We do know, like you mentioned, that there will be a limited amount of times you can progress through the progeny system in order to benefit from its rewards (it will be capped). 

    Maybe the reward incentives could start off small and increase in value the more times you play through the levels?  This would add incentive to continue playing through the levels instead of just doing it once in order to attain the best reward for your desired class.

    I think your ideas about a special raid zone or ultimate spells, while creative, put way to emphasis on having to partake in the progeny system.  Those rewards are to much. 

    The progeny system seems to come up a lot lately.  I hope we get some more information soon.

     

     

     


    This post was edited by philo at January 17, 2017 1:10 PM PST
    • 1303 posts
    January 17, 2017 1:13 PM PST

    philo said:

    oneADseven said:

    I really want to hear more about the Progeny system.  I hope it's more than just some tiny stat boon.  If grinding to max level is going to be as big of an obstacle as it's being made out to be, there should be some incentive for going through that twice.  If you think about it, it's really going to put a delay on end-game content.  I think it would be cool if there was a raid zone that can only be unlocked if someone successfully completes the progeny system (hit max level twice)  --  if not raid zone, maybe an ultimate spell, or something like that.  But if it's just a tiny stat boon ... it's going to be hard for anybody in the raiding community to go through the Progeny system as it will hinder theirs and their guilds raid progression by a pretty substantial amount of time.

    I think spell progression being tied into Progeny could be worthwhile.  Maybe have a "Grandmaster" tier of spells that can only be unlocked through a successful progeny campaign.  If someone wants Grandmaster quality for all of their spells ... well, they're going to need to make a massive investment into the system and I think the replayability factor becomes much more worthwhile for the min/maxers.  I guess a 5% stat buff would also be a reasonable alternative.  I think if someone invests that much time into their character, whereas they are willing to grind to max level FOUR times, they should be 15% stronger than anybody else that hasn't done it.  It would have to be capped at some point obviously but I don't really see players becoming "OP" because instead of gearing themselves out with raid gear (short term investment) they'd be focused on the long haul by building their characters with permanent buffs.

    I like your thought process.  I'm not sure if I agree with 100% of it, but I too very much want to hear more about progeny incentives.

    I agree when you say " If grinding to max level is going to be as big of an obstacle as it's being made out to be, there should be some incentive for going through that twice."  But I both agree and disagree with the follow up part where you said : "But if it's just a tiny stat boon ... it's going to be hard for anybody in the raiding community to go through the Progeny system as it will hinder theirs and their guilds raid progression by a pretty substantial amount of time."

    It will definitely hinder raiding.  Or put it on hold temporarily.  I guess it depends on how small of a stat boon we are talking about.  I think the min maxers will be ok with a small stat bonus even to play through a long, multi month, grind.  Though I guess it does depend on how small of a stat bonus.  If it was 3 or 5% to one stat maybe not. (assuming it isn't stackable and you can only get that specific incentive once). 

    We do know, like you mentioned, that there will be a limited amount of times you can progress through the progeny system in order to benefit from its rewards (it will be capped). 

    Maybe the reward incentives could start off small and increase in value the more times you play through the levels?  This would add incentive to continue playing through the levels instead of just doing it once in order to attain the best reward for your desired class.

    I think your ideas about a special raid zone or ultimate spells, while creative, put way to emphasis on having to partake in the progeny system.  Those rewards are to much. 

    The progeny system seems to come up a lot lately.  I hope we get some more information soon.

    I really hope you're not right. I have no desire whatsoever to effectively delete a character I spent months or perhaps even years developing. If there's some minimal non-combat perk presented because you choose the Progeny route, great. No problems. But if I will forever be considered "gimp" because I'm not "Feyshtey IVX" I'll get pissed. And quite honestly if there's content I'm locked out of because I wont delete a character, that's quite possibly a game-breaker for me. 

    A character is for me more than a ancilary aspect of a game. If I can't connect with the character and feel that sense of investment, and have in my mind a personality associated with the character to more intensely immerse me in the game, I quit the game. If an intended route is for me to build that personal sense of attachment only to tell me that the road is hereforth blocked unless I kill that character... "No" doesnt seem to cover it. 

    • 1860 posts
    January 17, 2017 1:21 PM PST

    Feyshtey said:

    I really hope you're not right. I have no desire whatsoever to effectively delete a character I spent months or perhaps even years developing. If there's some minimal non-combat perk presented because you choose the Progeny route, great. No problems. But if I will forever be considered "gimp" because I'm not "Feyshtey IVX" I'll get pissed. And quite honestly if there's content I'm locked out of because I wont delete a character, that's quite possibly a game-breaker for me. 

    A character is for me more than a ancilary aspect of a game. If I can't connect with the character and feel that sense of investment, and have in my mind a personality associated with the character to more intensely immerse me in the game, I quit the game. If an intended route is for me to build that personal sense of attachment only to tell me that the road is hereforth blocked unless I kill that character... "No" doesnt seem to cover it. 

     

    We had this conversation in the progeny thread a few months back fey.  You are still worried about the same issues I think.  At no point are you deleting your character.  You are simply restarting the leveling process with your same character in order to gain an added benefit.

    But I do agree with you 100% in that there should never be content that players are locked out of if they decided not to take part in the progeny system.  You must have been commenting on seven's post, even though you quoted mine, because I just said that.  That isn't a concern at all though.  There have been statements made that the progeny incentives will be small.  Not sure exactly how small...but being locked out of content seems large to me.  You don't need to worry.


    This post was edited by philo at January 17, 2017 1:31 PM PST
    • 1303 posts
    January 17, 2017 1:39 PM PST

    philo said:

    We had this conversation in the progeny thread a few months back fey.  You are still worried about the same issues I think.  At no point are you deleting your character.  You are simply restarting the leveling process with your same character in order to gain an added benefit.

    But I do agree with you 100% in that there should never be content that players are locked out of if they decided not to take part in the progeny system.  You must have been commenting on seven's post even though you quoted mine because I just said that.

    Yeah, we've talked about it already, and we're a bit off-topic. But... 

    As it's been described by the devs, you are more than just resetting an existing character to level 1 (or X, or whatever) . You're starting anew with the offspring of your previous character with some benefit. The amount of benefit is undefined. The number of times it can be done is undefined. But you are starting fresh with some perk.

    And if you're going to restart the same race/class.... How is it fun to play the same race/class again even if you're going thru new content? Have you ever started a new character of the same race/class just to do content you never did before? I havent, and for the life of me, I cant see a single point in it. If I'm going to start a new character, it's going to be a new race and/or class so that I can experience the new (to me) progression of that new class.

    If the reward for Progeny is sufficent enough to encourage people to redo the entire progression again with the same race/class, it's a gimmicky broken system meant only to sucker you into staying busy long enough for new content to release. 

    And on that topic, how do you deal with expansions? Do you add another layer of Progeny for every new xpac? Or does the system stagnate and remain whatever it was at release forever? Where I used to Progeny at level 50, do I now have to wait to Progeny until 60? Or because I already did Progeny for the maximum 3 times, do I now have to go thru that expansion to 60 to unlock the 4th Progeny slot? That dark myr necro I permanantly shelved at level 50 is now my offspring dark myr ranger. And there's a new expansion with X number of new zones. Do I have to have to permanantly shelve that ranger I've become fond of and redo all the progression for the necro so I can experience the xpac with that class? Or do I have to start a new necro without any of the Progeny benefits to experience that content that comes later? Compound those questions for the 3, 4, 10 expansions I hope that Pantheon is around for and hopefully the extension of levels to 70, 80, or 100. Do you want to redo a necro 10 times over the course of 10 expansions to be the best necro you can be? 

    No way in hell. 


    This post was edited by Feyshtey at January 17, 2017 1:44 PM PST
    • 1860 posts
    January 17, 2017 2:11 PM PST

    Feyshtey said:

     

    Yeah, we've talked about it already, and we're a bit off-topic. But... 

    Yep we are way off topic.  Pm sent.

     

    • 1618 posts
    January 17, 2017 2:26 PM PST

    If someone plays 10 hours a week, they should be able to accomplish 10 hours of progres.

    If someone plays 80 hours a week, they should be able to accomplish 80 hours of progress.

    Its simple.  Regardless of how much in-game time it takes to get to max level, don't punish people for playing the game.

    I exclusively play one game at a time, usually for years. It's my family's main source of entertainment, especially together.

    To some of us, gaming is our lives. We don't sit around talking about which basketball player has the most dunks per game or which college player should get drafted first. We could care less about that. We don't go to the bars and party several hours a week. We don't go on little family picnics.

    We get online with our friends and family and spend all day with them. My family is much happier playing games together than being forced to watch some sport that we don't play. That's how we choose to spend our time. You can criticize us all you want about how we have no life. But, to us, you are worse, talking about sports all day that you don't even play or paying 3X the price for alchohol at a bar.

    So, just because you enjoy doing non-gaming activities, don't try to convince the devs to prevent us from enjoying our gaming activities.

    Now before getting all upset about rushing through content, no where did I state that. I am simply stating that if there is an  imaginary goal of 30 days in-game (24 hours x 30 of actual in game time) to reach max (level, gear, stats, AA, crafting, exploration, or whatever; its not just about level), and you play 2 hours a day and I play 8 hours a day, I should get maxed 4 times faster. There should not be a punishment that causes me to take more in-game hours than you to reach max level, just because I enjoy the game and want to play it all the time.

    • 60 posts
    January 17, 2017 2:41 PM PST

    Beefcake said:

    If someone plays 10 hours a week, they should be able to accomplish 10 hours of progres.

    If someone plays 80 hours a week, they should be able to accomplish 80 hours of progress.

    Its simple.  Regardless of how much in-game time it takes to get to max level, don't punish people for playing the game.

    I exclusively play one game at a time, usually for years. It's my family's main source of entertainment, especially together.

    To some of us, gaming is our lives. We don't sit around talking about which basketball player has the most dunks per game or which college player should get drafted first. We could care less about that. We don't go to the bars and party several hours a week. We don't go on little family picnics.

    We get online with our friends and family and spend all day with them. My family is much happier playing games together than being forced to watch some sport that we don't play. That's how we choose to spend our time. You can criticize us all you want about how we have no life. But, to us, you are worse, talking about sports all day that you don't even play or paying 3X the price for alchohol at a bar.

    So, just because you enjoy doing non-gaming activities, don't try to convince the devs to prevent us from enjoying our gaming activities.

    Now before getting all upset about rushing through content, no where did I state that. I am simply stating that if there is an  imaginary goal of 30 days in-game (24 hours x 30 of actual in game time) to reach max (level, gear, stats, AA, crafting, exploration, or whatever; its not just about level), and you play 2 hours a day and I play 8 hours a day, I should get maxed 4 times faster. There should not be a punishment that causes me to take more in-game hours than you to reach max level, just because I enjoy the game and want to play it all the time.

    Agreed. I think my title is misleading and I don't want them to limit xp in anyway to make people with more time slower. 

    What I do want though is for it to take time, this is my biggest worry. I have a feeling that it won't take as much time as classic EQ, I could be completely wrong obviously. I guess we won't know until open beta pre-launch to get an idea of this sort of thing. I'm also not going to take the developers word for it either, I have played too many mmo's in the last 19 years where the devs have said it will take even hardcore players months to hit max and then I play and hit max in like 3 days.


    This post was edited by Stephen at January 17, 2017 2:43 PM PST
    • 613 posts
    January 17, 2017 3:11 PM PST

    Fulton said:

     

    You can not stop people from racing to end game. But by providing interesting content with desired rewards, you lessen the desire or need to reach end game just to have fun.

    Many games today have very little point to the lower levels, they are nothing but an "extended" training period. The levels don't matter the items don't matter, the groups and relationships along the way don't matter.

    Pantheon, will be slower progression, with zones/locations of interest, where most players will want to experience the area and the mobs. The slower pace builds relationships, and in turn those relationships and groups help the time pass without feeling like you need to rush. Friendships are started and group plans often become more about "What can we do fun tonight" and less about "How man we max our xp tonight".

    For some, it will be a major change in attitude, and for others it will feel like home.

    Games were always about social interaction going back to ancient times, and Pantheon will try to continue that.

     

     

    Agreed.  In every game I have experienced there is always that guy that has the need to get there first.  You can't stop him.  It is his choice.  Granted, he also may the first to complain about lack of content but that is his own doing. 

    I for one am in this for the long game.  For myself or people I group with won't have that sort of mentality.  It’s the social aspect and enjoying the game how we see fit. 

    The game design that makes content approachable opens the game up to this sort of behavior or game play. Is it bad? No. The Devs have to balance the game either to be ridiculous as far as advancement or the other direction. I think the key is to use both. I think they have stated this before. I am hopeful that they will use a balanced approach and make it challenging.

    The Dragon Accord Oxillion

     

    • 144 posts
    January 17, 2017 4:25 PM PST

    There is no way to stop it but I am sure there will be soft mechanics to prevent "superfast instant max level characters" as stated by the dev team.There is only so much you can do though, some players will be driven to get to the end asap and there will be no stopping them.

    I remember people in one old guild logging in day and night in shifts when a new server went up, four or more people in real life playing the same account/character pretty much 24/7 just to get a single character that can powerlevel others to max level and to be able to farm and make lots of cash selling things, and twink their "new" characters and level superfast again by using said previous account to powerlevel the new toons

     

    • 1618 posts
    January 17, 2017 4:30 PM PST

    Portalgun said:

    There is no way to stop it but I am sure there will be soft mechanics to prevent "superfast instant max level characters" as stated by the dev team.There is only so much you can do though, some players will be driven to get to the end asap and there will be no stopping them.

    I remember people in one old guild logging in day and night in shifts when a new server went up, four or more people in real life playing the same account/character pretty much 24/7 just to get a single character that can powerlevel others to max level and to be able to farm and make lots of cash selling things, and twink their "new" characters and level superfast again by using said previous account to powerlevel the new toons

     

    I know people do it, but I get so sensitive about my interface, it would drive me insane to hve someone else mess with it. Sometimes, when my son's group is desperate for a tank, I will let him help the group. But, I always end up regretting it.

     Not to mention, if someone is going to be pissed at me, I want it to because of something I did, not my kid.

    Reputation, good or bad, is important to me.


    This post was edited by Beefcake at January 17, 2017 4:33 PM PST
    • 1434 posts
    January 17, 2017 8:51 PM PST

    I can tell you it wasn't remotely possible to hit 60 in a month during Kunark era. Anyone that says otherwise has a bad memory. Even if you played 16 hours a day with 5 other people. It might be possible with instancing, but it did not (and should not) exist at the time. Even on p99 it took 2+ weeks of pure grinding 12+ hours with pre-made groups (a little shorter on red with the exp bonus). When we did that, we were also ahead of the curve, so we had no competition for zones like Sebilis and Chardok.

    I don't think it's beyond the realm of reason for 1-50 to take even the most hardcore player 6 to 8 weeks if designed and paced properly. In a game that isn't geared towards "end game", and where all content is important for a character's development, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect it to take several days to gain a level. At least beyond level 10.


    This post was edited by Dullahan at January 17, 2017 8:54 PM PST
    • 2130 posts
    January 17, 2017 8:55 PM PST

    The idea of it taking several days to make one level playing 8 hours a day makes me physically ill.

    I can understand wanting to make things slower than contemporary MMOs, but one level every several days? We're talking about a thousandfold increase. I can't even imagine the demoralization of grinding for 8 straight hours to get 30% of a level.


    This post was edited by Liav at January 17, 2017 8:55 PM PST
    • 1434 posts
    January 17, 2017 9:00 PM PST

    Liav said:

    The idea of it taking several days to make one level playing 8 hours a day makes me physically ill.

    I can understand wanting to make things slower than contemporary MMOs, but one level every several days? We're talking about a thousandfold increase. I can't even imagine the demoralization of grinding for 8 straight hours to get 30% of a level.

    That is because you are thinking about progress too much in terms of level, and not enough in terms of gear and other achievements. Pantheon will not be emulating that shallow model where level is all that matters.

    • 9115 posts
    January 17, 2017 10:05 PM PST

    Please keep in mind that we are still tweaking the time it takes to level, we have set it at what we feel is a good testing pace and further down the track in testing we will gather feedback from you all to help us set a good final pace for launch, opinions here range from one extreme to the other and I can tell you we will be finding a nice balance that compliments our game, so we look forward to hearing from everyone once they get their hands on it to test and experience it first hand.

    • 97 posts
    January 17, 2017 10:11 PM PST

    Sorry if this has already been asked, i didnt read through every single post, but are hell levels planned to be a thing at this time, or no? or still up in the air?

    • 839 posts
    January 17, 2017 10:16 PM PST

    Dullahan said:

    That is because you are thinking about progress too much in terms of level, and not enough in terms of gear and other achievements. Pantheon will not be emulating that shallow model where level is all that matters.

    Great point mate, there will be plenty of things to keep us busy progressing all areas of the characters so there might be less focus on levels and more on attaining gear etc like you said!

    This is going to be a very interesting topic once we get into testing!

    • 1434 posts
    January 17, 2017 11:38 PM PST

    Just think about it this way. In virtually every other mmo, the only thing standing between a player and their treasures, new abilities, and access to further experience, is levels. According to what we know about Pantheon, the world itself stands in your way. Levels alone won't necessarily allow you to survive a harsh climate, enter an area or dungeon, or even give your new abilities (or, in some cases, the proper mana to use them).

    Just looking down the list of their plans for the game and the world, I see a long list of ways they can soft gate content. Whether or not that will be the case remains to be seen, but it seems to me that people are going to be in for a big surprise if they think progression in Pantheon is going to follow the traditional level to X, move to zone Y formula until max level.


    This post was edited by Dullahan at January 17, 2017 11:45 PM PST