Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

Cross Classes

    • 13 posts
    January 14, 2017 10:37 AM PST

    Searched for cross-class in the forums and didn't see much so here's the question. Will Pantheon have cross-class abilities? Will we have to create a new character everytime we want to lv a new class? One thing I really love about FFXi and FFXIV is one character can do all jobs and some of the abilities can be shared as a sub-class within each main job. I have never seen another MMO do it and I am not sure why that hasn't really become a standard thing versus having the huge list of alts that you have to log in and out of, invite to the guild, add your friends to etc etc.. Have the devs addressed this question? What are your thoughts on it? 

    • 780 posts
    January 14, 2017 10:43 AM PST

    stiffleon said:

    Searched for cross-class in the forums and didn't see much so here's the question. Will Pantheon have cross-class abilities? Will we have to create a new character everytime we want to lv a new class? One thing I really love about FFXi and FFXIV is one character can do all jobs and some of the abilities can be shared as a sub-class within each main job. I have never seen another MMO do it and I am not sure why that hasn't really become a standard thing versus having the huge list of alts that you have to log in and out of, invite to the guild, add your friends to etc etc.. Have the devs addressed this question? What are your thoughts on it? 

     

    I've actually seen several MMOs do things this way, and I'm not into it.  The one the comes to mind for me is Archeage, where you have three classes at a time and can change out your combination as many times as you like.  You do have to level each class, but you have your whole 'everyone can do everything thing' there.

     

    Pretty sure we're not going to see that here in PRF.  PRF Tenet #2 states:

     

    *A requirement that classes have identities. No single player should be able to do everything on their own.

     

    • 169 posts
    January 14, 2017 10:46 AM PST

    I like the concept, but I don't think it will be part of Pantheon.  It seemes to be sticking to the single class style per character you create.  That might not be so bad as you get to experience different races if you want to.  In EQ there were hybrid classes like Paladins that were part Warrior and Part Cleric or Rangers who were part Warrior and part Druid.  I'm not sure if that will hold true for Pantheon or not.  Those classes also leveled up slower than other classes in orignal EQ as they had an experience penalty for combining two classes I believe.  Even some of the races had experience penalties if I recall correctly.  Dark Elves seemed to have the worst.  Perhaps because they had ultravision which allowed them to see in the dark.

    • 13 posts
    January 14, 2017 11:48 AM PST

     I've actually seen several MMOs do things this way, and I'm not into it.  The one the comes to mind for me is Archeage, where you have three classes at a time and can change out your combination as many times as you like.  You do have to level each class, but you have your whole 'everyone can do everything thing' there.

     

    Pretty sure we're not going to see that here in PRF.  PRF Tenet #2 states:

     

    *A requirement that classes have identities. No single player should be able to do everything on their own.

     

     

    In FFXI they had cross-class abilities and the ability to change classes on one character and you still needed to group for most things for years. I think it just depends on how it's done and at the very least I would like to see characters have the ability to level all classes. The reason is most of us will level more than one job and it would be nice to at least do it on the same character. It doesn't mean you have to, you could create a new character and do it that way, but the option to have all classes on one character would be nice. 

    • 1778 posts
    January 14, 2017 11:48 AM PST

    This topic has come up a few times. I probably brought it up first way back around the Kickstarter. As a FFXI fan I approve. However, Shucklighter and UnknownQuantity are correct. I cant remember where but I did get some dev feedback at some point that they were not going this direction or at least had no plans to do so. This likely has to do with the fact that they like Alts and probably ties into Progeny system too.

     

    Long story short, dont expect it.

     

     

    Im sure Kilsin could probably like some similar and lengthy conversation.

    • 9115 posts
    January 14, 2017 4:21 PM PST

    We won't have cross classes or the ability to change from one class to another in Pantheon, we have the traditional class roles that will specialise in their given role with some room to move/build/grow as class interdependence is very important to us as is the quaternity system that we are following.

    If you want to heal, you will need to create a healer and level them up, if you then want to tank or dps, you will have to then create a new character choosing to either tank or dps and level them up, this way, classes are important, people can grow more attached to them and specialise in their roles and it helps with knowing your fellow players and who is good at what class, instead of being a jack of all trades, you can only master one in Pantheon (on one character). 

    • 3 posts
    January 14, 2017 4:31 PM PST

    Though I like FF XIV and the Job idea, I still like the old style where you have one class doing one thing. Stop a character from being able to use abilities of another, this way each class is important and is needed especially on things like raids.

     

    • 169 posts
    January 14, 2017 4:34 PM PST

    Kilsin said:

    We won't have cross classes or the ability to change from one class to another in Pantheon, we have the traditional class roles that will specialise in their given role with some room to move/build/grow as class interdependence is very important to us as is the quaternity system that we are following.

    If you want to heal, you will need to create a healer and level them up, if you then want to tank or dps, you will have to then create a new character choosing to either tank or dps and level them up, this way, classes are important, people can grow more attached to them and specialise in their roles and it helps with knowing your fellow players and who is good at what class, instead of being a jack of all trades, you can only master one in Pantheon (on one character). 

    That sounds rather stringent.  

    Classes like Bard, Ranger, Paladin, Shadown Knight are still in the game.  Even classes like Druid, Enchanter, and Necromancer had a fairly large variety of abilities.

    I'm wondering if The Hybrid classes like Ranger are going to be combinations of two classes like orignal EQ or if they are going to be something completely unique.  For instance perhaps a Ranger doesn't get Skin Like Wood at all, but a Druid does.

    • 120 posts
    January 14, 2017 4:35 PM PST

    Kilsin said:

    the ability to change from one class to another in Pantheon instead of being a jack of all trades, you can only master one in Pantheon (on one character). 

    D:

    • 107 posts
    January 14, 2017 4:41 PM PST

    Kilsin said:

    We won't have cross classes or the ability to change from one class to another in Pantheon, we have the traditional class roles that will specialise in their given role with some room to move/build/grow as class interdependence is very important to us as is the quaternity system that we are following.

    If you want to heal, you will need to create a healer and level them up, if you then want to tank or dps, you will have to then create a new character choosing to either tank or dps and level them up, this way, classes are important, people can grow more attached to them and specialise in their roles and it helps with knowing your fellow players and who is good at what class, instead of being a jack of all trades, you can only master one in Pantheon (on one character). 

     

    I knew the answer, but I still like reading it. Thanks Kilsin.

    • 2130 posts
    January 14, 2017 5:13 PM PST

    Yeah, multiclassing essentially already existed in EQ in the form of hybrids. Assuming that Rangers/Paladins follow that model, for instance, they'll still practically be multiple classes at once. They don't necessarily have to be but I'd say that hybrids in EQ didn't really hurt the game.

    • 169 posts
    January 14, 2017 6:21 PM PST

    Liav said:

    Yeah, multiclassing essentially already existed in EQ in the form of hybrids. Assuming that Rangers/Paladins follow that model, for instance, they'll still practically be multiple classes at once. They don't necessarily have to be but I'd say that hybrids in EQ didn't really hurt the game.

    One might argue they were underpowered.  I always found Druid to be a lot more powerful than a Ranger and a warrior was a much better tank and fairly close in terms of DPS to a Ranger.  I guess the good part was you had more tools to play with and that made it more interesting in some cases.

    • 2130 posts
    January 14, 2017 6:28 PM PST

    UnknownQuantity said:

    One might argue they were underpowered.  I always found Druid to be a lot more powerful than a Ranger and a warrior was a much better tank and fairly close in terms of DPS to a Ranger.  I guess the good part was you had more tools to play with and that made it more interesting in some cases.

    Yeah, in fairness, EQ is one of the worst balanced MMOs of all time.

    Rangers are the best DPS in the game now on TLPs. Funny how that works.


    This post was edited by Liav at January 14, 2017 6:28 PM PST
    • 97 posts
    January 14, 2017 7:34 PM PST

    I never liked that feature in Archeage.  It was fun to mess around with and experiment, but I never had that bonding with my toon that I was hoping for since the class changed as often as I changed my clothes.  It was the easiest game I have ever quit. 

    • 2419 posts
    January 14, 2017 8:44 PM PST

    stiffleon said:

    Searched for cross-class in the forums and didn't see much so here's the question. Will Pantheon have cross-class abilities? Will we have to create a new character everytime we want to lv a new class? One thing I really love about FFXi and FFXIV is one character can do all jobs and some of the abilities can be shared as a sub-class within each main job. I have never seen another MMO do it and I am not sure why that hasn't really become a standard thing versus having the huge list of alts that you have to log in and out of, invite to the guild, add your friends to etc etc.. Have the devs addressed this question? What are your thoughts on it? 

    We haven't even played this game yet and you already want a multi-class classes? 

    Cross-class/Multi-Class isn't common because balancing such classes is exceeding difficulty.  Devs spend the life of their games balancing the single classes. Most people would agree having devs spend their time doing any number of other things than just balancing classes.

    • 1778 posts
    January 14, 2017 9:49 PM PST

    Just for clarity (nevermind that Kilsin has already set the OP straight). There are actually 2 different concepts being discussed here.

     

    The 1st is waht everyone seems to be talking about which is cross-class, dual-classins, multi-classing, or sub-classing, or whatever name you prefer. These concepts are either talking about a Class borrowing some skills from another class, or a hybridization of 2 or more classes.

     

    The 2nd which I think the OP was talking about but as Kilsin said inst happening is having any class on the same character. Basically it works just like having alts only all on the same character. When you switch to that class you are completely that class and cant have the stats or wear the gear of other classes even if you have leveled them up. If the normal concept of Alts is like Alt Characters, think of the Job System as Alt Classes. The biggest difference being you dont have to log to switch out. FFXIV has IMO way too much freedom to do this. FFXI you had to go to an outpost or city to change out. There arent many balance issues with this system, though most people seem to disapprove due to breaking immersion or not finding it realistic for a single character to master all classes. The biggest balance issues would come in to play with making it too easy to change classes on the fly (see FFXIV) and the fact that if a character can master all classes they tend to want to roll on every piece of gear they have a class leveled for.

     

    In either case it isnt happening, but I thought some clarification would be helpful.

    • 24 posts
    January 14, 2017 10:04 PM PST

    stiffleon said:

    Searched for cross-class in the forums and didn't see much so here's the question. Will Pantheon have cross-class abilities? Will we have to create a new character everytime we want to lv a new class? One thing I really love about FFXi and FFXIV is one character can do all jobs and some of the abilities can be shared as a sub-class within each main job. I have never seen another MMO do it and I am not sure why that hasn't really become a standard thing versus having the huge list of alts that you have to log in and out of, invite to the guild, add your friends to etc etc.. Have the devs addressed this question? What are your thoughts on it? 

    I played FFXIV for about six months and then quit having never looked back because of this very 'everyone can be any class' thing, I had a lvl 80 character 4 times over by then and had tried rtaiding with three of those alter personalities. The characters when you do them this way have nothing special about them at all, no memorability, no uniqueness, nothing. With out a strong and defined character role(class) for each character i make they just dont feel "real" to me, ie i cant get into their lore, or even bring myself to be the best multiclass character i can be. While on the other hand if i am a Bard for example and only a bard for however many levels, i learn the ins and out of the character intimitely which makes me a better player as i know the ins and out of my character very well. This is only my opinion of course, and there are those who will (and are free to) disagree, but i have a strong feeling the vast majority of the players and maybe even the devs agree with this sentiment.

     


    This post was edited by Draknmarr at January 14, 2017 10:04 PM PST
    • 9115 posts
    January 15, 2017 4:14 AM PST

    UnknownQuantity said:

    Kilsin said:

    We won't have cross classes or the ability to change from one class to another in Pantheon, we have the traditional class roles that will specialise in their given role with some room to move/build/grow as class interdependence is very important to us as is the quaternity system that we are following.

    If you want to heal, you will need to create a healer and level them up, if you then want to tank or dps, you will have to then create a new character choosing to either tank or dps and level them up, this way, classes are important, people can grow more attached to them and specialise in their roles and it helps with knowing your fellow players and who is good at what class, instead of being a jack of all trades, you can only master one in Pantheon (on one character). 

    That sounds rather stringent.  

    Classes like Bard, Ranger, Paladin, Shadown Knight are still in the game.  Even classes like Druid, Enchanter, and Necromancer had a fairly large variety of abilities.

    I'm wondering if The Hybrid classes like Ranger are going to be combinations of two classes like orignal EQ or if they are going to be something completely unique.  For instance perhaps a Ranger doesn't get Skin Like Wood at all, but a Druid does.

    Hybrid classes and multi-classes are completely different though my friend, it was my understanding that the OP was referring to something similar to Rift or FFXIV, where you click a button and change from a Dps to a Tank spec and then to a caster or healer when you're sick of tanking, in Pantheon, you cannot do that, you will need to log out and log on to the tank character or create one, you won't be able to switch to a completely different class in our game.

    The answer is also on our FAQ: https://www.pantheonmmo.com/game/faqs/#q10

    • 9115 posts
    January 15, 2017 4:15 AM PST

    Filzin said:

    Kilsin said:

    We won't have cross classes or the ability to change from one class to another in Pantheon, we have the traditional class roles that will specialise in their given role with some room to move/build/grow as class interdependence is very important to us as is the quaternity system that we are following.

    If you want to heal, you will need to create a healer and level them up, if you then want to tank or dps, you will have to then create a new character choosing to either tank or dps and level them up, this way, classes are important, people can grow more attached to them and specialise in their roles and it helps with knowing your fellow players and who is good at what class, instead of being a jack of all trades, you can only master one in Pantheon (on one character). 

     

    I knew the answer, but I still like reading it. Thanks Kilsin.

    You're welcome man ;)

    • 169 posts
    January 15, 2017 5:13 AM PST

    Kilsin said:

    UnknownQuantity said:

    Kilsin said:

    We won't have cross classes or the ability to change from one class to another in Pantheon, we have the traditional class roles that will specialise in their given role with some room to move/build/grow as class interdependence is very important to us as is the quaternity system that we are following.

    If you want to heal, you will need to create a healer and level them up, if you then want to tank or dps, you will have to then create a new character choosing to either tank or dps and level them up, this way, classes are important, people can grow more attached to them and specialise in their roles and it helps with knowing your fellow players and who is good at what class, instead of being a jack of all trades, you can only master one in Pantheon (on one character). 

    That sounds rather stringent.  

    Classes like Bard, Ranger, Paladin, Shadown Knight are still in the game.  Even classes like Druid, Enchanter, and Necromancer had a fairly large variety of abilities.

    I'm wondering if The Hybrid classes like Ranger are going to be combinations of two classes like orignal EQ or if they are going to be something completely unique.  For instance perhaps a Ranger doesn't get Skin Like Wood at all, but a Druid does.

    Hybrid classes and multi-classes are completely different though my friend, it was my understanding that the OP was referring to something similar to Rift or FFXIV, where you click a button and change from a Dps to a Tank spec and then to a caster or healer when you're sick of tanking, in Pantheon, you cannot do that, you will need to log out and log on to the tank character or create one, you won't be able to switch to a completely different class in our game.

    The answer is also on our FAQ: https://www.pantheonmmo.com/game/faqs/#q10

    Hi Kilsin,

    I read through the faq and didn't see anything regarding hybrid classes.  Does that mean there will be no hybrid classes?  Rangers will just be DPS for instance with their own unique abliities.  All I can find on classes is that each will fill a role.  In Everquest often classes could fill different roles depending on what was needed as some classes has a variety of different abilities/spells available to them.

    The only reason I brought up hybrid classes is because they are similar to multiclasses.  They are a combination of multiple classes that have certain abilities (but not all) from each.  It is the closest thing to the FFXI system you would find in a game like Everquest.

    • 68 posts
    January 15, 2017 6:39 AM PST

    Liav said:

    UnknownQuantity said:

    One might argue they were underpowered.  I always found Druid to be a lot more powerful than a Ranger and a warrior was a much better tank and fairly close in terms of DPS to a Ranger.  I guess the good part was you had more tools to play with and that made it more interesting in some cases.

    Yeah, in fairness, EQ is one of the worst balanced MMOs of all time.

    Rangers are the best DPS in the game now on TLPs. Funny how that works.

     

    Flavor of the day man. Monks were by far the best DPS until Luclin. Rangers can enjoy their top DPS right now but that will change. Do you know how hard it is to balance classes? IMO they should not be balanced anyway. They should all have their strengths and weaknesses. Now, if you want to talk about one of the most useless classes for raiding right now, youd be talking about an enchanter. When we do VT on Phinny, I literally watch netflix the entire time. We will have our day though. It comes and goes.

    • 13 posts
    January 15, 2017 6:55 AM PST

    Amsai said:

    Just for clarity (nevermind that Kilsin has already set the OP straight). There are actually 2 different concepts being discussed here.

     

    The 1st is waht everyone seems to be talking about which is cross-class, dual-classins, multi-classing, or sub-classing, or whatever name you prefer. These concepts are either talking about a Class borrowing some skills from another class, or a hybridization of 2 or more classes.

     

    The 2nd which I think the OP was talking about but as Kilsin said inst happening is having any class on the same character. Basically it works just like having alts only all on the same character. When you switch to that class you are completely that class and cant have the stats or wear the gear of other classes even if you have leveled them up. If the normal concept of Alts is like Alt Characters, think of the Job System as Alt Classes. The biggest difference being you dont have to log to switch out. FFXIV has IMO way too much freedom to do this. FFXI you had to go to an outpost or city to change out. There arent many balance issues with this system, though most people seem to disapprove due to breaking immersion or not finding it realistic for a single character to master all classes. The biggest balance issues would come in to play with making it too easy to change classes on the fly (see FFXIV) and the fact that if a character can master all classes they tend to want to roll on every piece of gear they have a class leveled for.

     

    In either case it isnt happening, but I thought some clarification would be helpful.

     

    Yeah exactly. Was really two different concepts being discussed both of which Kilsin addressed so I have nothnig else left to add to this thread. Basically, you won't be switching classes on the same character or having any sub-classed abilities. That's all I wanted to know, thanks. 

    • 1778 posts
    January 15, 2017 8:41 AM PST

    UnknownQuantity said:

    Kilsin said:

    UnknownQuantity said:

    Kilsin said:

    We won't have cross classes or the ability to change from one class to another in Pantheon, we have the traditional class roles that will specialise in their given role with some room to move/build/grow as class interdependence is very important to us as is the quaternity system that we are following.

    If you want to heal, you will need to create a healer and level them up, if you then want to tank or dps, you will have to then create a new character choosing to either tank or dps and level them up, this way, classes are important, people can grow more attached to them and specialise in their roles and it helps with knowing your fellow players and who is good at what class, instead of being a jack of all trades, you can only master one in Pantheon (on one character). 

     

     

     

     

    That sounds rather stringent.  

    Classes like Bard, Ranger, Paladin, Shadown Knight are still in the game.  Even classes like Druid, Enchanter, and Necromancer had a fairly large variety of abilities.

    I'm wondering if The Hybrid classes like Ranger are going to be combinations of two classes like orignal EQ or if they are going to be something completely unique.  For instance perhaps a Ranger doesn't get Skin Like Wood at all, but a Druid does.

    Hybrid classes and multi-classes are completely different though my friend, it was my understanding that the OP was referring to something similar to Rift or FFXIV, where you click a button and change from a Dps to a Tank spec and then to a caster or healer when you're sick of tanking, in Pantheon, you cannot do that, you will need to log out and log on to the tank character or create one, you won't be able to switch to a completely different class in our game.

    The answer is also on our FAQ: https://www.pantheonmmo.com/game/faqs/#q10

    Hi Kilsin,

    I read through the faq and didn't see anything regarding hybrid classes.  Does that mean there will be no hybrid classes?  Rangers will just be DPS for instance with their own unique abliities.  All I can find on classes is that each will fill a role.  In Everquest often classes could fill different roles depending on what was needed as some classes has a variety of different abilities/spells available to them.

    The only reason I brought up hybrid classes is because they are similar to multiclasses.  They are a combination of multiple classes that have certain abilities (but not all) from each.  It is the closest thing to the FFXI system you would find in a game like Everquest.

     

    Depends on your definition of Hybrid.If you mean classes that are basically 2 different classes fused together, then Im not sure as I dont know if things like Ranger or Paladin will be fusions or if they will have their own independent spell/skill lines.

     

    However, there are 2 other definitions of hybrids. Classes that use both melee and magic skills, see FFXIs BlueMage (hybrid Melee/Magic dps). And classes that can cover multiple roles, see Pantheons Shaman (Healer/Buffer/Debuffer/DPS/Utility and likely some limited CC). Whatever the case Pantheon will definitely have Role Hybridization for all if not most classes. All class reveals so far have had at least 2 roles. And I believe every class will at least be able to have a secondary role even if they arent the best at it by design.

     


    This post was edited by Amsai at January 15, 2017 8:42 AM PST
    • 3016 posts
    January 15, 2017 11:02 AM PST

    Kilsin said:

    We won't have cross classes or the ability to change from one class to another in Pantheon, we have the traditional class roles that will specialise in their given role with some room to move/build/grow as class interdependence is very important to us as is the quaternity system that we are following.

    If you want to heal, you will need to create a healer and level them up, if you then want to tank or dps, you will have to then create a new character choosing to either tank or dps and level them up, this way, classes are important, people can grow more attached to them and specialise in their roles and it helps with knowing your fellow players and who is good at what class, instead of being a jack of all trades, you can only master one in Pantheon (on one character). 

     

    Good to hear,  I like to play the class that "I'VE" chosen ..and be accepted for that instead of some raid leader insisting I have to switch to "such and such" skill tree..to be something I don't normally play.  Experienced this in other games...don't like it.  :)   *sprays can of jack-of-all trades begone!*  hehehe

    • 2886 posts
    January 15, 2017 11:21 AM PST

    Multi-classing makes me wanna vomit. Flavor-of-the-month soloing builds kill games. So glad VR is taking the direction that they are.