Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

Question/suggestion regarding servers

    • 44 posts
    January 13, 2017 6:24 AM PST

    I know Pantheon is going for the classic server model where each server exists separate from others with its own player base. I understand the reason for going this route over the mega-server design, however, I'm sure all of us have been in the situation before when playing an MMO where you meet someone else who plays the game, but you can't play with them because they play on a different server than you do.

    I think it would be cool in Pantheon would have a way to be able to play with people on other servers without doing a full-on server transfer. Perhaps a way to "guest" on other servers - there would be a mechanism to invite someone on another server to your group, and you can temporarily play on their server as long as you remain in their group. There would probably have to be some rules in place to keep it from being abused - disabling people from old servers guesting on new servers for a certain number of months so it keeps the new server feel, easily identifying people doing this (perhaps @servername showing up in your nameplate), and maybe have a time limit for how long/often you can do this.

    I'm sure something like this would be controversial, but it does suck to literally be unable to play with other people because their characters are on another server.

    • 610 posts
    January 13, 2017 7:09 AM PST

    No thanks, I hate anything to do with cross servers.

     

    • 120 posts
    January 13, 2017 7:37 AM PST

    If you find someone who happens to be playing on another server, you can create a character to play with them there, they can create a character on your server, or one or the other can transfer.

    That's the solution to this issue, and I'm decently confident that server culture and community is integral enough to the game that any sort of cross-server anything would be highly damaging.

    • 1921 posts
    January 13, 2017 7:40 AM PST

    Setting aside transfers (which I hope they don't have) you could always mentor down and level up with them on your server, or create a new character on their server, and they mentor down and level up with you.

    Personally, I would prefer that to any kind of cross-server pollution/corruption.

    • 1778 posts
    January 13, 2017 8:09 AM PST

    I think mega servers have good intent, but in practice dont work well. Also a like the whole server pride thing too.

    • 89 posts
    January 13, 2017 8:11 AM PST

    Please no cross-server mechanics of any kind.  See WoW for all the reasons why.

    • 38 posts
    January 13, 2017 9:14 AM PST

    They have already discussed their cloud based approach that will make server modifications much easier. They may be able to implement something to help situations like these (They have also stressed heavily that they are focused on helping people find, meet, and play with friends *not a direct quote*), but I agree that merged servers are bleh, but they may have some other ideas to achieve their model.

     

    -W

    • 780 posts
    January 13, 2017 9:16 AM PST

    Yeah, I don't want any cross-server grouping or anything like that.  Brad said you will be able to send tells to friends on other servers, but hopefully that's the extent of it.

    • 319 posts
    January 13, 2017 10:14 AM PST

    Cross server capabilities id no good. You will always find someone who finds a way to exploit this. Talk to your friends before release and get together with a server you all can agree on. But there is always a time or two where that is not always the best fit. So maybe if they put in ONE server transfer per account then everyone would be happy to switch one time for a better guild or server. It is not always convienient to restart on a new server even with mentoring. Transferes would have to be without lore items and armour etc. Only plat and maybe 1 bag with keys you have earned would be acceptable. But jumping from server to server and back again will only cause problems.

    • 2886 posts
    January 13, 2017 10:53 AM PST

    Agree with all of the above... so, nope.

    • 2130 posts
    January 13, 2017 10:56 AM PST

    Eventually we'll almost have to deal with this to an extent as a result of server merging, so a system like this is usually introduced into games as a more elegant solution to what will inevitably become a problem. Even so, I wouldn't want to see it in the game right off the bat. However, in the future, I wouldn't mind seeing it as opposed to hard server merging.

    • 44 posts
    January 13, 2017 11:00 AM PST

    I figured people would hate this idea. I'm not advocating mega-servers or unlimited free server transfers or anything like that. I just hate the idea of literally being unable to play with someone because they happen to be on a different server with you. I can't be alone in having been in a situation in the past where you meet someone new in real life who plays the same MMO as you, but they happen to play on a different server than you, so sorry, you literally can't play with them unless you roll alts. I just wanted to start a discussion about if there would be a way to help deal with this.

    • 2130 posts
    January 13, 2017 11:04 AM PST

    snrub said:

    I figured people would hate this idea. I'm not advocating mega-servers or unlimited free server transfers or anything like that. I just hate the idea of literally being unable to play with someone because they happen to be on a different server with you. I can't be alone in having been in a situation in the past where you meet someone new in real life who plays the same MMO as you, but they happen to play on a different server than you, so sorry, you literally can't play with them unless you roll alts. I just wanted to start a discussion about if there would be a way to help deal with this.

    I think paid server transfers should always be an option.

    Someone will probably scream "pay to win cash shop" but they'd be categorically incorrect so it can be safely ignored.

    I've probably spent several hundred dollars in server transfer tokens in EQ2 just because of the number of alts I have. I don't think there's anything wrong at all with a paid service like this. It gives people an outlet to move to another server and play with a specific friend if they really want to, but if it's cost prohibitive to abuse, it won't be.

    I would imagine $25 is a perfectly reasonable price for a service like that. It solves the problem, and is extra revenue to support the development of future content.


    This post was edited by Liav at January 13, 2017 11:05 AM PST
    • 780 posts
    January 13, 2017 11:08 AM PST

    I don't have any issue with a paid character transfer service.  Just make it so characters can't go back and forth or move more than once every few months and I don't see a problem with it.  I definitely prefer than to any kind of cross-server group finders or whatever.

    • 89 posts
    January 13, 2017 11:12 AM PST

    Paid character transfer itself is fine, imo.  Possibly with some kind of time constraint before it can be used again.

    • 2886 posts
    January 13, 2017 11:14 AM PST

    Liav said:

    snrub said:

    I figured people would hate this idea. I'm not advocating mega-servers or unlimited free server transfers or anything like that. I just hate the idea of literally being unable to play with someone because they happen to be on a different server with you. I can't be alone in having been in a situation in the past where you meet someone new in real life who plays the same MMO as you, but they happen to play on a different server than you, so sorry, you literally can't play with them unless you roll alts. I just wanted to start a discussion about if there would be a way to help deal with this.

    I think paid server transfers should always be an option.

    Someone will probably scream "pay to win cash shop" but they'd be categorically incorrect so it can be safely ignored.

    I've probably spent several hundred dollars in server transfer tokens in EQ2 just because of the number of alts I have. I don't think there's anything wrong at all with a paid service like this. It gives people an outlet to move to another server and play with a specific friend if they really want to, but if it's cost prohibitive to abuse, it won't be.

    I would imagine $25 is a perfectly reasonable price for a service like that. It solves the problem, and is extra revenue to support the development of future content.

    This. "Literally being unable to play together" is an exaggeration. There are ways. But if it's too convenient, it will be abused. That's pretty much all there is to it.

    • 2130 posts
    January 13, 2017 11:25 AM PST

    Bazgrim said:

    Liav said:

    snrub said:

    I figured people would hate this idea. I'm not advocating mega-servers or unlimited free server transfers or anything like that. I just hate the idea of literally being unable to play with someone because they happen to be on a different server with you. I can't be alone in having been in a situation in the past where you meet someone new in real life who plays the same MMO as you, but they happen to play on a different server than you, so sorry, you literally can't play with them unless you roll alts. I just wanted to start a discussion about if there would be a way to help deal with this.

    I think paid server transfers should always be an option.

    Someone will probably scream "pay to win cash shop" but they'd be categorically incorrect so it can be safely ignored.

    I've probably spent several hundred dollars in server transfer tokens in EQ2 just because of the number of alts I have. I don't think there's anything wrong at all with a paid service like this. It gives people an outlet to move to another server and play with a specific friend if they really want to, but if it's cost prohibitive to abuse, it won't be.

    I would imagine $25 is a perfectly reasonable price for a service like that. It solves the problem, and is extra revenue to support the development of future content.

    This. "Literally being unable to play together" is an exaggeration. There are ways. But if it's too convenient, it will be abused. That's pretty much all there is to it.

    It is an exaggeration, you're right. However, rerolling just isn't viable for some people. As far as abuse, I think the concerns about abuse are negligible. I've never seen a server transfer cause a problem that couldn't be caused without a server transfers.

    For instance, horrible reputations usually follow people across servers. Servers aren't 100% isolated communities, nor should they be, imo.


    This post was edited by Liav at January 13, 2017 11:26 AM PST
    • 9115 posts
    January 13, 2017 4:46 PM PST

    We have stated a few times now that we will be having limited servers with a set population cap, a cap that we will find and balance during testing to make the world feel alive and lived in/bustling without camps and mobs being overcrowded and queues forming for dungeons/kills etc.

    We will not be using a mega server for Pantheon as we feel it goes against the community driven nature of our game, having huge mega servers doesn't allow the same close nit feel where names are important and action can be held accountable, you instead just become another number in a sea of many.

    Mega servers use instancing and clones to function, which is another thing we are trying to avoid in our game.

    • 3016 posts
    January 13, 2017 6:22 PM PST

    snrub said:

    I know Pantheon is going for the classic server model where each server exists separate from others with its own player base. I understand the reason for going this route over the mega-server design, however, I'm sure all of us have been in the situation before when playing an MMO where you meet someone else who plays the game, but you can't play with them because they play on a different server than you do.

    I think it would be cool in Pantheon would have a way to be able to play with people on other servers without doing a full-on server transfer. Perhaps a way to "guest" on other servers - there would be a mechanism to invite someone on another server to your group, and you can temporarily play on their server as long as you remain in their group. There would probably have to be some rules in place to keep it from being abused - disabling people from old servers guesting on new servers for a certain number of months so it keeps the new server feel, easily identifying people doing this (perhaps @servername showing up in your nameplate), and maybe have a time limit for how long/often you can do this.

    I'm sure something like this would be controversial, but it does suck to literally be unable to play with other people because their characters are on another server.

     

    Make an alt character on that server..get your friend to mentor you or make an alt to game with you. 

    • 3852 posts
    January 13, 2017 8:16 PM PST

    >We have stated a few times now that we will be having limited servers with a set population cap, a cap that we will find and balance during testing to make the world feel alive and lived in/bustling without camps and mobs being overcrowded and queues forming for dungeons/kills etc. <

    Obviously this won't be easy, as populations fluctuate. You will need to guess on population trends and whether to expect population to flatten out significantly after the excitement of release or to increase as word gets around that the game is good, and it actually exists and isn't just smoke and mirrors. You will need to do this not only for the servers in general but for specific zones - will that camp of mobs at level 15 be overcrowded with players in a week as people speed-level 24/7 to be "the first" to do something or will it be totally empty as we stop to sniff the roses. Ideally knowing many guesses will be wrong, to meet the stated goals you will have flexibility built in e.g. the ability to add camps where overcrowding gets bad then remove them when not needed.

    There is a strong feeling in this thread, and others, that cross-server mechanics are bad. I basically agree with the reasons stated for this opinion - people are far more likely to act badly if they don't expect to encounter groupmates regularly and think of them as strangers that they are teaming with for short-term convenience not members of the same community. But I wonder if there are ways around this. For example having a dungeon finder (not group finder IMO) that gives you a yes/no clickable as to whether you want to queue cross-server. If it takes forever and you are desperate for a group you click yes. If you are worried about the douches on all the *other* servers you click no.

    • 9115 posts
    January 13, 2017 9:43 PM PST

    dorotea said:

    >We have stated a few times now that we will be having limited servers with a set population cap, a cap that we will find and balance during testing to make the world feel alive and lived in/bustling without camps and mobs being overcrowded and queues forming for dungeons/kills etc. <

    Obviously this won't be easy, as populations fluctuate. You will need to guess on population trends and whether to expect population to flatten out significantly after the excitement of release or to increase as word gets around that the game is good, and it actually exists and isn't just smoke and mirrors. You will need to do this not only for the servers in general but for specific zones - will that camp of mobs at level 15 be overcrowded with players in a week as people speed-level 24/7 to be "the first" to do something or will it be totally empty as we stop to sniff the roses. Ideally knowing many guesses will be wrong, to meet the stated goals you will have flexibility built in e.g. the ability to add camps where overcrowding gets bad then remove them when not needed.

    There is a strong feeling in this thread, and others, that cross-server mechanics are bad. I basically agree with the reasons stated for this opinion - people are far more likely to act badly if they don't expect to encounter groupmates regularly and think of them as strangers that they are teaming with for short-term convenience not members of the same community. But I wonder if there are ways around this. For example having a dungeon finder (not group finder IMO) that gives you a yes/no clickable as to whether you want to queue cross-server. If it takes forever and you are desperate for a group you click yes. If you are worried about the douches on all the *other* servers you click no.

    With todays server technology we can implement a soft cap and have an overflow to allow more in when needed, we can also change the cap to reduce the amount if performance issues arise, having full control of our servers grants us a lot of options allows us to monitor the population, performance and  change what is needed on the go, so after we stress test in Beta and get an idea of what works and what doesn't then we can find a solid number to go with and adjust as needed from there, it really shouldn't be a big deal.

    We have said we will not allow cross server mechanics, we will have separate servers for different rulesets and regions, people are free to choose where they want to play but once they make that decision then they are locked in.

    You have incorporated multiple subjects in your reply, many of which we have lengthy threads on (servers, group finders, players acting badly etc.), so instead of repeating myself I will direct you to search for them and read up on what has been said so far, my friend :)

    • 2130 posts
    January 13, 2017 9:57 PM PST

    Disappointing to hear that paid server transfers aren't on the table at all. I sincerely hope it doesn't bite VR in the ass.

    • 9115 posts
    January 14, 2017 12:32 AM PST

    Liav said:

    Disappointing to hear that paid server transfers aren't on the table at all. I sincerely hope it doesn't bite VR in the ass.

    It isn't set in stone, there may be extreme cases where we will allow it but it probably won't be a common occurrence.

    • 2130 posts
    January 14, 2017 12:42 AM PST

    Kilsin said:

    Liav said:

    Disappointing to hear that paid server transfers aren't on the table at all. I sincerely hope it doesn't bite VR in the ass.

    It isn't set in stone, there may be extreme cases where we will allow it but it probably won't be a common occurrence.

    Nice. That's what I like to hear.

    • 97 posts
    January 14, 2017 12:51 AM PST

    I don't think many people will be changing servers.  Maybe early on to be with friends that joined a different server, but when you have stuff like houses and full banks, alot of that wont transfer with you.  At least in previous games I have played that is the case.