Forums » Pantheon Classes

Proactive vs Reactive Healing - EQ2 Shaman

    • 3 posts
    December 22, 2016 8:43 AM PST

    My favorite healer to play was a eq2 shaman because of their proactive healings using wards, Any chance a class in Pantheon would use a proactive healing mechanism instead of using reactive heals like the standard cleric ?


    This post was edited by doberman1861 at December 22, 2016 8:46 AM PST
    • 4419 posts
    December 22, 2016 10:45 AM PST

    In Cleric class description: "Clerics also have a variety of other healing powers, including: Direct, Heal-Over-Time, and Heal-On-Hit."

    So if by proactive healing, you mean Heal-on-Hit, then the answer is definitely yes.


    This post was edited by Bazgrim at December 22, 2016 10:45 AM PST
    • 3 posts
    December 22, 2016 2:34 PM PST

    Thank You, I see that :)

    • 1894 posts
    December 22, 2016 4:31 PM PST

    I am waiting to see the differences between healers.

    • 2013 posts
    December 23, 2016 1:01 PM PST

    Im waiting to see if Druid will either not be a healer (I know this wouldnt neccessarily make some people happy) or if VR can change how I feel about being a healing. I like the whole "Geomancer" angle with the Auras or weather spells that could both buff and debuff if used effectively. Just dont usually like healer roles. Though VG Bloodmage sounded interesting enough that I might of liked it. It will take a special class to make me want to heal...... or tank for that matter.

    • 1894 posts
    December 23, 2016 1:18 PM PST

    My wife loves healing and loves druids. Hopefully she gets what she wants. She also wants to turn into a bear.


    This post was edited by Beefcake at December 23, 2016 1:37 PM PST
    • 10 posts
    January 31, 2017 8:01 AM PST

    I don't want to see a strictly ward based healer in this game.  I've played EQ2 since it launched and the problem they have run into is Shaman (Ward/Block Damage) is KING.  Clerics (heal on hit) and Druids (heal over time) are only used to top up any damage that overwhelmed the ward.  Overwhelming a ward is more common in new/tough content, but once things get a bit easier you are making clerics and druids useless if you have a shaman in the group.

    Instead, I'd like to see some other type of heal mechanic used that didn't prevent the other healers from doing their healing job too.

    • 2628 posts
    January 31, 2017 11:47 AM PST

    excalibur100 said:

    I don't want to see a strictly ward based healer in this game.  I've played EQ2 since it launched and the problem they have run into is Shaman (Ward/Block Damage) is KING.  Clerics (heal on hit) and Druids (heal over time) are only used to top up any damage that overwhelmed the ward.  Overwhelming a ward is more common in new/tough content, but once things get a bit easier you are making clerics and druids useless if you have a shaman in the group.

    Instead, I'd like to see some other type of heal mechanic used that didn't prevent the other healers from doing their healing job too.

     

    I propose that wards add damage mitigation instead of blocking an upfront amount. So say 20% damage mitigation until the ward has absorbed X amount of damage. 

    • 10 posts
    January 31, 2017 12:28 PM PST

    Iksar said:

    excalibur100 said:

    I don't want to see a strictly ward based healer in this game.  I've played EQ2 since it launched and the problem they have run into is Shaman (Ward/Block Damage) is KING.  Clerics (heal on hit) and Druids (heal over time) are only used to top up any damage that overwhelmed the ward.  Overwhelming a ward is more common in new/tough content, but once things get a bit easier you are making clerics and druids useless if you have a shaman in the group.

    Instead, I'd like to see some other type of heal mechanic used that didn't prevent the other healers from doing their healing job too.

     

    I propose that wards add damage mitigation instead of blocking an upfront amount. So say 20% damage mitigation until the ward has absorbed X amount of damage. 

     

    EQ2 has that too (Channeler class), which is a damage reduction pet.  The pet intercepts damage from a target or group (depends on how you have it buffed) and you have damage abilities that also let you heal the pet.  

    Ideally for me, I'd like to see a balance between direct heal cast times/amounts vs utility.  All healer classes can heal, just in different ways.

    Clerics - large amount, but slow cast time heals 

    Druids - small amount, but fast cast time heals

    Shaman - medim amount and medium cast time heals

    -----------------------------------------------

    Clerics - defensive buffs/defensive debuffs(undead dps)  --  This class cripples the defensive capabilities of a mob and increases their allies defenses.

    Druids - offensive buffs/Ranged DPS  --  This class increases it's allies offensive capabilities and provides some ranged dps.

    Shaman - offensive debuffs/Melee DPS  -- This class cripples the offensive capabilities of a mob and provides some melee dps.

    -----------------------------------------------

    Clerics - Provides the most experience restored resurrection both in/out of combat. Low hp/mp restored.

    Druids - Out of combat only resurection with minimal experience restored.  Can port the group to different places.

    Shaman - Provides a high hp/mp restored resurrection both in/out of combat.

    EDIT: I forgot about the shaman being able to convert it's health to mana.  That might cut into the amount of it's in-combat resurrection hp/mp restoration.


    This post was edited by excalibur100 at January 31, 2017 12:33 PM PST
    • 27 posts
    January 31, 2017 7:42 PM PST

    excalibur100 said:

    I don't want to see a strictly ward based healer in this game.  I've played EQ2 since it launched and the problem they have run into is Shaman (Ward/Block Damage) is KING.  

    Cant agree more. The other heal classes all had their contributions but if you wanted to easy mode it just gear up a couple shamans for your raid. 

    • 767 posts
    January 31, 2017 8:32 PM PST

    I loved playing a ward healer in eq2 but after reading this thread i can full appreciate why it can be a bit OP.  A nice middle ground as mentioned by many would be great!

    • 2628 posts
    February 1, 2017 10:13 AM PST

    Hokanu said:

    I loved playing a ward healer in eq2 but after reading this thread i can full appreciate why it can be a bit OP.  A nice middle ground as mentioned by many would be great!

     

    I don't know how it worked in EQ2, never got that far. How exactly did the wards work out to be OP? I know in FFXIV the Scholar class has spells that heal for less than the other healers but also gives a shield that absorbs an amount equal to the heal and it isn't OP.

    • 4419 posts
    February 1, 2017 10:37 AM PST

    It will all come down to the numbers. In some games, shields/wards are actually underpowered. In general, I believe that damage prevention is better than damage recovery. But there are some cases where you're sitting at 10% hp and you don't have any way to quickly heal back up, that shield still doesn't feel like nearly enough. So we'll just have to wait and see what stats they assign to the spells and such before we can fairly judge whether or not it's OP. (As is the case with most things)

    I mean, I don't think we've gotten confirmation that there'll be shield/wards in Pantheon, but it's probably fairly safe to assume in this case - they're pretty standard.


    This post was edited by Bazgrim at February 1, 2017 10:56 AM PST
    • 767 posts
    February 1, 2017 2:13 PM PST

    Iksar said:

    Hokanu said:

    I loved playing a ward healer in eq2 but after reading this thread i can full appreciate why it can be a bit OP.  A nice middle ground as mentioned by many would be great!

     

    I don't know how it worked in EQ2, never got that far. How exactly did the wards work out to be OP? I know in FFXIV the Scholar class has spells that heal for less than the other healers but also gives a shield that absorbs an amount equal to the heal and it isn't OP.

    From a hazy memory.. you could stack both single target wards on your tank and also put up a AoE ward at the same time.  If the tank is the only one being hit he will take from the entire pool of the AoE ward and as long as the damage incoming isnt too crazy allow you to re cast your single target ward when it ran out and then again cast the aoe ward before the single target one ran out etc etc keeping him in a perpetual state of being warded!


    This post was edited by Hokanu at February 1, 2017 2:14 PM PST
    • 10 posts
    February 4, 2017 4:50 AM PST

    Iksar said:

    Hokanu said:

    I loved playing a ward healer in eq2 but after reading this thread i can full appreciate why it can be a bit OP.  A nice middle ground as mentioned by many would be great!

     

    I don't know how it worked in EQ2, never got that far. How exactly did the wards work out to be OP? I know in FFXIV the Scholar class has spells that heal for less than the other healers but also gives a shield that absorbs an amount equal to the heal and it isn't OP.

    When the game launched, it wasn't that bad.  Shamans were the slowest casting by a long shot and the healers were fairly balanced.

    Then as expansions went on and the devs started to add more and more stats, the power of wards increased to the point that they were "required" and other healers may not have a healing role.

    Eventually, we were able to cap out casting speed at 100% which meant a 50% reduction in casting times.  Shaman were still the slowest casters, but were casting fast enough that it didn't matter.  We also started to see stats that increased the heal (ward) amount.  In some cases it double to tripled the size of the ward.

    At the end of the day, SOE/DBG was terrible at balancing, IMO.  After 10 years (?), we are capping most of our stats each expansion.

    • 10 posts
    February 4, 2017 5:01 AM PST

    I played a cleric and a druid in EQ2 in heroic and raid gameplay.  It was frustrating to see my heal number substantially decrease because the shaman ward was soaking up so much damage.

    EQ2 Healers and Heal Priority:

    Shaman (Ward) - Soaks up any damage up to the value of the ward.

    Channeler (Damage Reduction) - This one came later on as an expansion class and worked completely differently than the other 3 healers.  It was never quite overpowered because the damage reduction percentage was capped quite low.

    Cleric (Reactive) - When hit, it will heal for a set amount and use up a trigger.  Most reactives had between 3 and 12 triggers.

    Druid (Heal over Time) - Fixed healing that would occuring every tick for a set amount of time.

    • 3380 posts
    February 4, 2017 12:16 PM PST

    excalibur100 said:

    I don't want to see a strictly ward based healer in this game.  I've played EQ2 since it launched and the problem they have run into is Shaman (Ward/Block Damage) is KING.  Clerics (heal on hit) and Druids (heal over time) are only used to top up any damage that overwhelmed the ward.  Overwhelming a ward is more common in new/tough content, but once things get a bit easier you are making clerics and druids useless if you have a shaman in the group.

    Instead, I'd like to see some other type of heal mechanic used that didn't prevent the other healers from doing their healing job too.

     

    I personally really want to see the ward mechanic in the game.  I understand that shamans might be more desirable than other healers in certain situations, and that's great for the game.  Personally I don't think they are the best solo healer, but they shine in a raid.  I have always enjoyed a healing system where shamans use wards, druids do HoT's, and clerics do focus healing or reactives.  Of course it doesen't hurt to blend these heals between all of the classes but I definitely want to see each healer specializing in a certain type.  I played a defiler for a bit in EQ2, and they were a shaman.  I remember playing an absolutely critical role in our guilds WW 3'rd kill on a major progression boss.  The trick was to time the group ward so that it would be completely absorbed by the tank.  This boss hit like a truck, and timing the group ward so that it was entirely absorbed by the tank was a major part of us beating that mob.  Mechanics like that are awesome.


    This post was edited by oneADseven at February 4, 2017 12:18 PM PST