Forums » Off-Topic and Casual Chatter

May get a new desktop

    • 3852 posts
    December 13, 2016 8:13 AM PST

    if there is a good sale from a quality company. Given that even alpha release may be a ways off we don't know what equipment will work best with Pantheon but since we do know the basic development system they are using to create the game does anyone have any guesses, repeat guesses, as to the following:

    1. Is a 4K monitor likely to noticably improve the viewing experience. With many MMOs the answer is no - in fact a 4K monitor is a negative since it doesn't make things look better but reduces the quality of gane settings at comparable framerates.

    2. Is linking two video cards likely to be a plus?  Many MMOs still don't support this and some that claim to don't provide anything noticably different when 2 cards are used.

    3. Given current knowledge of the game development system any tips on what features probably would be a plus in a gaming focused machine with one monitor and generally good componants?

    This will be a MMO not a shooter and system configuaration historically matters far less for MMOs so my guess is the answers will generally be a mix of "no" and "too early to tell".

    • 2130 posts
    December 13, 2016 8:48 AM PST

    MMOs in general are probably the most demanding type of video game on hardware. I would expect to get 60 FPS at 4k at bare minimum settings in a low population area, but in raids I doubt that'd be maintainable.

    1. In my opinion, 1080p is still the golden standard for MMO gaming. Even 1440p will likely suffer some performance issues. I would personally rather have 1920x1080/144 than 2560x1440/60 or 4k/60. It'd be a miracle if we could get 60 FPS @ 4k and maintain it in graphically intense situations.

    2. You pretty much said it yourself. SLI/Crossfire tend to introduce more issues than anything else, and even then, the performance of SLI/Crossfire doesn't translate into a 100% increase in performance. There are diminshing returns on the performance you get, and it doesn't approach 100% even in optimal circumstances.

    3. What do you mean by features?

    All of this is obviously up in the air until we actually get our hands on the game. I'm using a 4790k/GTX 1060 with a BenQ XL2411Z. I personally expect to get 144 FPS with most supplemental effects like Ambient Occlusion, Shadows, etc. disabled. However, I have no expectation of maintaining 144 FPS during raids.

    I tend to estimate on the side of caution though. Wouldn't want to disappoint myself. :p

     

    • 1095 posts
    December 13, 2016 12:07 PM PST

    Maybe the below will help if not seen these yet.

    Kilsin's post

    https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/2469/system-requirements/view/post_id/34241

     

    but better Aradune's(Brad) post

    https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/2169/guesstimated-recommended-system-requirements/view/post_id/28755

     


    This post was edited by Aich at December 13, 2016 12:15 PM PST
    • 103 posts
    December 13, 2016 1:33 PM PST

    Given the graphics quality of the streams I dont think youll need an awesome computer to run it altough if you want 4k you may at least need a current gen GPU at least. TBH the latest stream gave me nostalgia for LotRO. A max setting, higher polygon count LotRO but its a safe bet its not going to raise the bar in graphical detail (no offense to devs). If I were to play it safe with a new computer id aim for one that can run ESO at around same settings/resolution.

     

    Doubt youll need SLI since, youre right, theyre usually not really optimized for it so you'd be wasting money. Not sure what you mean by features unless you mean peripherals for MMOs ... which I wouldnt go for more than a Razer Naga or some other gaming mouse with plenty of buttons. Good headset maybe?

     

    Honestly just build a budget (yet modern) gaming PC and youll be fine. 

    • 257 posts
    December 13, 2016 2:47 PM PST

    They're using Unity so I would go with one decent video card that runs cool so you can play for hours on end. A 1060 should be fine is my guess.

    • 1618 posts
    December 13, 2016 2:52 PM PST

    i will be waiting until about two weeks before early access/pre-alpha, then I will be a top of the line gaming laptop.

     

    • 3852 posts
    December 13, 2016 3:35 PM PST

    Thanks for the replies - I had seen the links but they were a somewhat different question. I know I'll be able to run the game quite well, but was interested in whetehr certain things might help it to run better than very well.

    My rule of thumb for a system used mostly for MMOs - we have two computers so I have the luxury of optimizing mine for games - is (1) get one of the better video cards but not the top of the line and never link more than one of them. This keeps heat and complexity down without hurting performance (obviously I'm focusing on a single momitor when I say this). (2) Don't skimp on memory but no need to approach whatever the maximum is at the time - that won't help a MMO much if at all. (3) Good monitor if I get a new one but keep the resolution to a reasonable level so the game can run on maximum settings. Never forget I don't have 4K eyes any more <. And don't even look at laptops if I don't need one for portability - and I don't.

    • 2130 posts
    December 13, 2016 3:40 PM PST

    Realistically, your performance expectations are more important than anything else in determining hardware.

    Resolution, FPS, and visual integrity are the three factors you have to balance. With 144Hz monitors becoming mainstream, I see 1080p being optimal for myself just because I'm 100% certain that I probably won't get 144 FPS in raids. Outside of raids, 144 FPS is unlikely at anything higher than 1080p, unless you're starting at a very low detail scene.

    I noticed on stream that the devs have their FPS locked at 60, either through VSync or an FPS limiter, not sure which. This inclines me to believe that they're optimizing the game around making 60 FPS as playable as possible, and those of us at 144Hz are just going to have to deal with it.

    That isn't really the developer's fault though, as I've stated in other threads. Outside of competitive first person shooters on bare minimum graphics settings, hoping for 144 FPS with no dips is probably unreasonable.

    dorotea said:

    Thanks for the replies - I had seen the links but they were a somewhat different question. I know I'll be able to run the game quite well, but was interested in whetehr certain things might help it to run better than very well.

    My rule of thumb for a system used mostly for MMOs - we have two computers so I have the luxury of optimizing mine for games - is (1) get one of the better video cards but not the top of the line and never link more than one of them. This keeps heat and complexity down without hurting performance (obviously I'm focusing on a single momitor when I say this). (2) Don't skimp on memory but no need to approach whatever the maximum is at the time - that won't help a MMO much if at all. (3) Good monitor if I get a new one but keep the resolution to a reasonable level so the game can run on maximum settings. Never forget I don't have 4K eyes any more <. And don't even look at laptops if I don't need one for portability - and I don't.

    Edited to reply to this.

    Graphics Card: GTX 1080 Ti launches in January and that would be considered top of the line. Normal GTX 1080 below that. 1070 below that. 1060 below that. I'm not even considering AMD, personally. I wouldn't consider SLI at all, honestly. The cost far outweighs the benefits, and that's assuming Pantheon would benefit from it at all.

    RAM: 16GB is more than sufficient for any modern gaming. Any more than that is unnecessary unless you have specific secondary tasks in mind that are highly memory consumptive. Nice 2x8GB kits are not terribly expensive, either.

    Monitor: I wouldn't personally buy 4k for anything outside of a television. For gaming, it's a performance nightmare. I personally wouldn't consider 1440p for an MMO just because MMOs are extremely hardware demanding. If I had to buy a monitor specifically to play Pantheon, it'd be a higher end 1080p 24" 60Hz monitor. However, this is all preference, Some people find 30 FPS playable so by all means.


    This post was edited by Liav at December 13, 2016 3:47 PM PST
    • 249 posts
    December 13, 2016 3:56 PM PST

    Both nvidia and amd are expected to announce new gpus this january. I think amd is announcing new cpus too. By the time the game is out, we may very well have the hardware to run 4k@60 or greater consistently. 

    • 1095 posts
    December 13, 2016 3:57 PM PST

    Liav said:

    I noticed on stream that the devs have their FPS locked at 60, either through VSync or an FPS limiter, not sure which. 

    How did you notice? 

     

    • 2130 posts
    December 13, 2016 4:00 PM PST

    Aich said:

    Liav said:

    I noticed on stream that the devs have their FPS locked at 60, either through VSync or an FPS limiter, not sure which. 

    How did you notice?

    During the last stream, at one point the guy whose perspective we follow (Kagrik) toggled a window on the left side of his screen with various performance statistics. It very clearly showed the FPS locked at 60 and rapidly bouncing back and forth between 59/60, which is usually a side effect of an FPS limiter. I imagine Unity has FPS limitation as a feature built-in.

    Edit: I spent 10 whole minutes finding this. You're welcome.

    http://imgur.com/a/Bgnzr

     


    This post was edited by Liav at December 13, 2016 4:15 PM PST
    • Moderator
    • 9115 posts
    December 14, 2016 1:43 AM PST

    Liav said:

    Aich said:

    Liav said:

    I noticed on stream that the devs have their FPS locked at 60, either through VSync or an FPS limiter, not sure which. 

    How did you notice?

    During the last stream, at one point the guy whose perspective we follow (Kagrik) toggled a window on the left side of his screen with various performance statistics. It very clearly showed the FPS locked at 60 and rapidly bouncing back and forth between 59/60, which is usually a side effect of an FPS limiter. I imagine Unity has FPS limitation as a feature built-in.

    Edit: I spent 10 whole minutes finding this. You're welcome.

    http://imgur.com/a/Bgnzr

     

    That is one of our debug windows but none of us locked FPS, unless John did it for the stream since he was having issues but it isn't an in-game option. I have a GTX 980 Ti overclocked and can get 130+ FPS in some areas using a 27" 1440 monitor, in other places it drops to 30 FPS, but not all cities/dungeons/towns/areas have had performance passes take place yet, so that will change and you're right, as with any games that allow a lot of people to gather in one place, like raiding, the frame rates will drop but that is where you will be able to adjust your graphics via options and sliders, we have a basic version in-game already and we will expand on that as development progresses.

    Moving this to Off-Topic as is relates to PC builds/Specs

    • 2130 posts
    December 14, 2016 5:04 AM PST

    Yeah, basically consistency in FPS is more important to me than anything else. Getting dips from 130+ to 30 is unlikely to be resolved entirely with optimization patches, so I'd say that completely rules out 1440p for me. I appreciate the information.

    If I can get 60+ FPS during raids @ 1080p on bare minimum settings, I'd consider that to be amazing. I bought this 144Hz monitor to play Overwatch. I have no reasonable expectation of utilizing it to the fullest in an MMO within the next decade. :p


    This post was edited by Liav at December 14, 2016 5:05 AM PST
    • 208 posts
    December 14, 2016 8:16 AM PST

    I know that my big splurge will be an Ultrawide monitor for Pantheon. Hopefully prices start going down. Would be fine with 1080p but would prefer a 1440 Ultrawide. Would take those over 4K. Currently I have 2 144hz 1080p BenQ monitors. I could just get a third, but want to get away from the bezels.

    My current SLI 980 Ti's will also be upgraded to dual 1080s at some point. My current setup I am sure could handle Pantheon at over 60 fps on Ultrawide, but will really need the upgrades for Star Citizen.


    This post was edited by Bluefyre at December 14, 2016 8:18 AM PST
    • 595 posts
    December 14, 2016 8:54 AM PST

    Bluefyre said:

    I know that my big splurge will be an Ultrawide monitor for Pantheon. Hopefully prices start going down. Would be fine with 1080p but would prefer a 1440 Ultrawide. Would take those over 4K. Currently I have 2 144hz 1080p BenQ monitors. I could just get a third, but want to get away from the bezels.

    My current SLI 980 Ti's will also be upgraded to dual 1080s at some point. My current setup I am sure could handle Pantheon at over 60 fps on Ultrawide, but will really need the upgrades for Star Citizen.

    I'm with you on this @Bluefrye, though there's still some debate about which brand/model.  I personally really love the LG 34" Ultrawide; it just has such a great aesthetic and I love the way the curved stand complements the shape of the screen.  And then there's the Acer Predator which are more geared toward gaming with a higher refresh rate.  Mine will be doubling as a work monitor (how else could you justify the cost?) so there are things I need to take into consideration beyond refresh rate but 100ghz+ is certainly a plus for gaming.

    • 384 posts
    December 14, 2016 9:22 AM PST

    Bluefyre said:

    I know that my big splurge will be an Ultrawide monitor for Pantheon. Hopefully prices start going down. Would be fine with 1080p but would prefer a 1440 Ultrawide. Would take those over 4K. Currently I have 2 144hz 1080p BenQ monitors. I could just get a third, but want to get away from the bezels.

    My current SLI 980 Ti's will also be upgraded to dual 1080s at some point. My current setup I am sure could handle Pantheon at over 60 fps on Ultrawide, but will really need the upgrades for Star Citizen.

    I am also hoping to get an ultrawide monitor by the time PRF launches. Looks so nice!  My comp could really use an upgrade but at this point I'm just holding off til as close to launch as possible to maxmize performance and longevity. But man, that UW Acer with G-sync would be amazing.

    • Moderator
    • 9115 posts
    December 14, 2016 6:13 PM PST

    Liav said:

    Yeah, basically consistency in FPS is more important to me than anything else. Getting dips from 130+ to 30 is unlikely to be resolved entirely with optimization patches, so I'd say that completely rules out 1440p for me. I appreciate the information.

    If I can get 60+ FPS during raids @ 1080p on bare minimum settings, I'd consider that to be amazing. I bought this 144Hz monitor to play Overwatch. I have no reasonable expectation of utilizing it to the fullest in an MMO within the next decade. :p

    Yeah, me either lol :)

    • 208 posts
    December 15, 2016 4:37 PM PST

    Nikademis said:

    Bluefyre said:

    I know that my big splurge will be an Ultrawide monitor for Pantheon. Hopefully prices start going down. Would be fine with 1080p but would prefer a 1440 Ultrawide. Would take those over 4K. Currently I have 2 144hz 1080p BenQ monitors. I could just get a third, but want to get away from the bezels.

    My current SLI 980 Ti's will also be upgraded to dual 1080s at some point. My current setup I am sure could handle Pantheon at over 60 fps on Ultrawide, but will really need the upgrades for Star Citizen.

    I'm with you on this @Bluefrye, though there's still some debate about which brand/model.  I personally really love the LG 34" Ultrawide; it just has such a great aesthetic and I love the way the curved stand complements the shape of the screen.  And then there's the Acer Predator which are more geared toward gaming with a higher refresh rate.  Mine will be doubling as a work monitor (how else could you justify the cost?) so there are things I need to take into consideration beyond refresh rate but 100ghz+ is certainly a plus for gaming.

    I'm hoping by the time I am ready to get one, I can get a 1440p, 100hz+, low response time, and G-Sync. And without spending a fortune. Will likely have to spend a fortune though for that. :o

    A mans gotta do what a mans gotta do. lol As far as justification. I just tell myself if I am stupid enough to spend $1000 on an unreleased MMO, I can splurge on a monitor for it. lol

    • 19 posts
    December 17, 2016 1:09 PM PST

    MMOs are ALWAYS CPU bound/internet connection speed.

    I currently just picked up a 3440x1440p Asus PG348Q Monitor (Ultrawide) on Black Friday and it's THE way to experience gaming. Phenomenal colors at 100hz. Personally, I believe 1440p (2k) is the way to experience games. Technology just isn't there for 4k gaming... and let me tell you 1440p is CLEAR. Love it and I'll unfortunately never be able to go back to 1080p. However, to run my ultrawide at Ultra on most AAA titles... I'll need to pick up the 1080ti when it drops in January... PC gaming is expensive.

     

    Oh, and productivity is phenomenal on a 34" UW monitor... I just can't translate enough how much I love this monitor. I can game and have 2 web pages up at one time... or stock trade software and another area for work space... it's beautiful.

    I came from 2 1080p BenQ monitors.

     


    This post was edited by JHaslip at December 17, 2016 1:13 PM PST
    • 2130 posts
    December 18, 2016 4:26 PM PST

    @JHaslip

    That works for some people, but I'm skeptical about what kind of performance you'll be getting, especially getting 100 FPS, even with a 1080Ti.

    • 521 posts
    February 9, 2017 4:25 PM PST

    The Asus PG348Q is the monitor Ive been considering getting to play pantheon, but has it been mentioned if pantheon will support 21:9, or even be optimized for SLI support?

    • 2752 posts
    February 9, 2017 4:50 PM PST

    As for monitors, I'd wait a little bit. Nixeus has a 27" 1440p 144hz IPS moniter with a freesync range of 30-144hz, the first monitor with that kind of range. I don't know your price points but they said they expect their MSRP to be about $449. 

    For graphics card/CPU I would honestly wait as things are looking like AMD is set to make a very solid offering/comeback very soon with their Ryzen CPUs and a little later their Vega graphics cards. VERY likely going to be less expensive than Intel and Nvidia respectively. Keep in mind when using freesync you benefit and it looks smoother compared to not, even if you end up at 40 FPS for some reason.