Forums » Pantheon Races

Race Locations and speculations...

    • 186 posts
    December 2, 2016 1:57 PM PST
    Gnomes: Skyhold is floating above Whitethaw.
     
    Dwarves: Southern tundra, Khadassa (Khazas' Reach).
     
    Archai: Wildly diverse island Realm of Su'Roa.
     
    The other 6 races have a crown by where they're located on the map. Thought I would put something together to give a little clearer picture. I had thought there was a video on YouTube that covered this, but I can't seem to find it anymore. The map has two locations off of the map, one is snow, a frozen glaicial area, looks like a wasteland to the north. The other is green to the south, one could safely assume that it would continue further south, and since the Dwarves are said to be on a Southern Tundra, it is reasonable to speculate that this may be where they are actually located.
     
    Perhaps the most intriguing are the Archai, it says "Realm", what does it mean, perhaps since they are magical beings, they are not really on Terminus, but somehow outside of the physical realm.
     
    It is my hope to get my thoughts put down somewhere, as I read through the lore that has been provided. Obviously keep the discussion civil, and hopefully we can have a good conversation about the many possible directions the placement of the races has on the player, and the world at large. Thoughts and tin hats are welcome.

    This post was edited by VitaKorp3n at December 5, 2016 9:00 PM PST
    • 432 posts
    December 3, 2016 3:09 AM PST

    I did a physical map of Terminus some time ago locating all the places on a globe . Actually I even computed the approximate size of the Terminus planet deduced from the lore and the (then existing) partial maps .

    Unfortunately the maps kept changing so that the detailed information I deduced is no more valid .

     

    Now what you must realize is that the map you linked shows only a VERY small fraction of the planet .

    The desert on the lower edge is typically at a latitude 20°-30° . If we assume that the shape of Terminus is spherical what is probably true then deserts on every spherical planet which has a polar cap are around latitudes 20°-30° both on the northern and southern hemisphere . As this map shows a polar cap, there must then be deserts between 20°-30° latitude .

    The longitude extent is unknown but the shape of the polar cap shows that it is not very large .

     

    So basically what you see here is a part of the planet which is between 20°and about 70° latitude north and if I take longitude 0° on the left edge then the right edge is anywhere around 100-120 longitude east .

    So if I assume that the size of Terminus is about the size of the Earth (because one sees on the videos that the gravity is obviously similar to the Earth's gravity) then what you see on the map would be equivalent to an Earth portion showing North Africa, Europe and part of Asia. Limited by southern Algeria in the South and northern Norway in the North and by Azores islands in the West and Himalayas in the East .

    This is quite a small portion of the northern hemisphere of the planet .

     

    From these basic considerations follows .

    - you don't even see the equator which is below the lower edge . The dominating climates are oceanic temperate turning desert in the south and artctic tundra in the north .

    - As the Dwarves live in a glacial tundra AND mountains, they can only be on the glacial Island north of Kingsreach (if they should be on map) or north east of the Veil of Azeris (if they are off map) . Definitely they can't be below the southern edge because they'd have then to be on the southern edge of the southern hemisphere what is more than 10 000 km away from the other races but we know that they are not too far and communicate with them .

    - Gnomes are similar . Almost nothing is known at this stage besides the name "Whitethaw" and a "bore in the snow" . Both suggest high northen latitudes so that the location is also north or north east of Kingsreach .

    - Of Archais we know that they are neighbour to the Gnomes and live on an island . Besides they use "crystals" and "ore" what implies mountains and not snow covered wastes .

     

    If we keep then only consistent solutions based on the informations we have (besides that there is of course an infinity of inconsistent solutions) then it would look like that :

    The dwarves may live on the island north of Kingsreach if we assume that the cartographer was a newbie and forgot to show high mountains there .

    Alternatively all 3 are off map in the north east . There would be a mountainous probably volcanic island Su'Roa for the Archais and north of it on the continuation of the polar area shown in the north eastern corner of the map a mountainous area (imagine the landscape of the Antarctic peninsula which happens to be on my Avatar's picture :)) for the Dwarves and a semi arctic area for the Gnomes .

     

    • 432 posts
    December 3, 2016 10:07 AM PST

    Btw I did some time ago a projection of the map linked above on a sphere .

    Then I did a map in a realisitic style (climate, rivers etc) just to have an idea how things would look from space . Of course I didn't put the mountains and rivers on the same places as they are in the official map because it was just to amuse myself and not to recreate the Terminus map in another style .

    To make things more visual, I added on this planetary map the  places where the Dwarves (D), Gnomes (G) and Archais could be according to the post above .

    You can notice how small is the fraction of the planet which is covered by the official map .

     

     

     

     

     

    • 186 posts
    December 3, 2016 10:56 AM PST

    One thing I noticed was that the Skar, Dark Myr, and Ogres were all on the continent to the West, whereas the Humans, Elves and Halflings were all on the Eastern Continent. The shape of the northern snow covered land mass (has large ice bergs/iceshelfs which may imply land underneath, sort of like Antarctica) looks like it may actually go on for a little ways, and would likely be a bit larger, and slightly offset from the axis of the planet (thinner ice to the west toward the Western Landmass) Keep in mind too, there is evidence of at least 2 moons, so the gravity would be greater, and varied than that of Earth's. good stuff, good stuff :)

     

    The image below doesn't appear to be on the map at all (who knows, it could be someone's home planet for all we know...) But it is clear that it is Very very cold, there is ancient ice formations in the foreground, and it appears that it may even be the Dwarves city made of "Coldark Steel". Just a thought /shrug


    This post was edited by VitaKorp3n at December 5, 2016 9:08 PM PST
    • 432 posts
    December 4, 2016 3:09 AM PST

    VitaKorp3n said:

    Keep in mind too, there is evidence of at least 2 moons, so the gravity would be greater, and varied than that of Earth's. good stuff, good stuff :)

     

     

    Yes but the gravity on the surface of the planet is basically independent of the number of moons (the intensity decreases like 1/r² what is very fast) . And as the videos show, the gravity is visibly equivalent to the one of the earth (just look at the falling snow f.ex) . The only effect there would be is that the tides would be much more chaotic than on Earth .

     

    Besides i have a problem with one information which is :

    "Nearly on top of each other came the Myr of Issul (hereafter referred to as Dark Myr) near the Ogres of Broken Maw in what would become the continent of Reignfall, and the Archai of Roa to the south, in the realm of Whitethaw and nearest to the Dwarves and Khadassa. "

     

    This is impossible . The Archai (and Whitethaw) can clearly NOT be to the South of Reignfall .

    In the Keepings we learn 2 things :

    First is that the Elves and the Dwarves were "anually meeting" . From that follows that the distance is less than what can be travelled in 1 or 2 months . That makes a distance somewhere around 1500 km maximum . Well if every travelling was done via teleporting then obviously all distance constraints would disappear . But what makes the "teleporting" hypothesis irrelevant is that Nerian made the journey from Reignfall to Kadassa on foot (perhaps some boat too) without teleporting so that the distance limit holds .

    Second we learn that when Kazas and Nerian meet the dragon , there are "auroras above them" . From that follows that the latitude of Kadassa is between 65° and 75° . This is also consistent with the fact that it is situated in an artctic environment with very harsh winters .

     

    Now if one goes South of Reignfall which is on Northern hemisphere one has to cross half of the planet as far as to the South pole to find auroras and arctic environment . But this is more than 10 000 km away what would make "annual meetings" impossible .

    So Kadassa and Whitethaw can only be to the North East of Kingsreach approximately at the place where I put it above .


    This post was edited by Deadshade at December 4, 2016 3:19 AM PST
    • 186 posts
    December 4, 2016 6:37 AM PST

    Deadshade said:

     

    Besides i have a problem with one information which is :

    "Nearly on top of each other came the Myr of Issul (hereafter referred to as Dark Myr) near the Ogres of Broken Maw in what would become the continent of Reignfall, and the Archai of Roa to the south, in the realm of Whitethaw and nearest to the Dwarves and Khadassa. "

    This is impossible . The Archai (and Whitethaw) can clearly NOT be to the South of Reignfall .

    Second we learn that when Kazas and Nerian meet the dragon , there are "auroras above them" . From that follows that the latitude of Kadassa is between 65° and 75° . This is also consistent with the fact that it is situated in an artctic environment with very harsh winters .

     Now if one goes South of Reignfall which is on Northern hemisphere one has to cross half of the planet as far as to the South pole to find auroras and arctic environment . But this is more than 10 000 km away what would make "annual meetings" impossible .

    So Kadassa and Whitethaw can only be to the North East of Kingsreach approximately at the place where I put it above .

     

    So perhaps we are looking at the picture wrong? for all of these very good points to be valid, the map is not situated correctly. What we are looking at as the northpole, is in fact the South pole, and VR pulled a fast one on us. If the north is really the south, then the distances will match up, and your presumed locations for the three are fairly accurate, which would coincide with the lore too. 

    Image is trippy

     


    This post was edited by VitaKorp3n at December 5, 2016 9:07 PM PST
    • 432 posts
    December 4, 2016 2:34 PM PST

    VitaKorp3n said:

     

     

    So perhaps we are looking at the picture wrong? for all of these very good points to be valid, the map is not situated correctly. What we are looking at as the northpole, is in fact the South pole,

     

     

    Of course I have also envisioned that the cartographer was a newbie and inverted north and south beside forgetting to draw mountains where necessary .

    But this hypothesis doesn't work :

    "The legendary army of Broken Maw attacked the Revenant in their own camps as they marshalled on the banks of the frigid northlands"

    and

    "According to the Ogres, he enticed the hounds of Wos Che to assault Broken Maw from the north, while a Revenant force marched up from the desert of Khaga in the south "

    and

    "Nevertheless, since founding Thronefast on the northern coast of the Bethrale Sea, "

     

    So no, clearly, the map is in the right direction - the north is up and the south is down . Therefore the bit about the Archai's location I quoted in the post above still doesn't make sense .


    This post was edited by Deadshade at December 4, 2016 2:35 PM PST
    • 186 posts
    December 4, 2016 5:14 PM PST
    Very odd, sounds like a simple oversight somewhere. Regardless, we could put our tin hats on and laugh about the VR conspiracy
    • 186 posts
    December 4, 2016 7:50 PM PST

    I was able to blow off school work to read through the lore finally, good stuff that Istuulamae has come up with. I don't think he had any kind of oversight on any of what he has written, he seems far to meticulous for that. The only answer is that the assumption of what the world looks like is not accurate. 

    I have come up with a few more speculations. (a bit more serious then before) The dwarves, Gnomes and Archai locations are only assumed, and honestly I doubt we will know the answer until they release a true and complete map for everything, which likely won't happen until they finish fleshing out the world, or just release a complete map.

    (I even put in the Wos Che Stand in art from the north of Syronai's Rest for prosperity.)

    We know for a fact that the Dwarves are said to be south on a tundra, so likely they are on the third landmass that is yet to be shown (which is Whitethaw), the Archai are on an island, and the Gnomes are somewhere resting over Whitethaw. As far as the dwarves are concerned, there is an easy trek that they could make from the land off to the east from Wild's End. There is even a boat coming out of Ru'Lun heading towards the south. (likely where the dwarves are located.)

     

    To be clear, I only put them in the vacinity of where they could be, not where I think they are. For all I know, they could be anywhere on that continent. thoughts?


    This post was edited by VitaKorp3n at December 5, 2016 9:06 PM PST
    • 432 posts
    December 4, 2016 11:45 PM PST

    VitaKorp3n said:

     

     

    To be clear, I only put them in the vacinity of where they could be, not where I think they are. For all I know, they could be anywhere on that continent. thoughts?

     

    The Dwarves can't be where you put them . You put them at the same latitude as the desert - there are no auroras and there is no snow there .

    If anything, the existence of auroras and arctic climate pinpoints quite accurately the Dwarves location . They are (approximately) between 65° and 75° latitude North .

    The place which fits the constraint is where you put the Gnomes .

     

    As Whitethaw is a continent, it is situated somewhere beyond the right edge of the map and extends as far as the polar cap (northern) .

    The Gnomes are near the Dwarves on the same continent and on a similar (arctic) latitude .

    The Archais are on a mountainous island near to the Whitethaw continent and south of the Dwarves and the Gnomes .

     

    I will find some time and redo later  quick a new map which fits the lore .

    • 432 posts
    December 5, 2016 9:06 AM PST

    As promised, here is a map that I drew with the target to be consistent with all the available information .

    This time I put the mountains and the rivers on the right places .

     

     

     

    And here it what it gives projected on a sphere .

     

    • 595 posts
    December 5, 2016 10:45 AM PST

    Deadshade said:

    As promised, here is a map that I drew with the target to be consistent with all the available information .

    This time I put the mountains and the rivers on the right places .

     

     

     

    And here it what it gives projected on a sphere .

     

    Wow @Deadshade, very impressive!  Accurate or not, this is a fascinating topic and your models are very well done!

    • 186 posts
    December 5, 2016 7:12 PM PST

    Nice maps, few things. As I said, I didn't put the dwarves where I thought they should be, I just simply do not agree with you. (something I am allowed to do)

    The second thing is that Kingsreach is an island, not a continent, meaning that Whitethaw on your map would be an island also.

    "Kingsreach did not fare as well. The island has only the Roans as a natural defense..." 

    The fact of the matter is you have what appears to be a long coast to the south which is completely missing from your maps. I am still looking through the lore, and trying to see what else I can find. Lets keep this civil and not make any assumptions that we know exacts beyond what has been given by VR. 

     

    To be totally honest, I get the impression that the map that we are shown is a much smaller portion of the world than what you think, the other thing is that the land to the East and South comes VERY close to Wild's End. (again, making it very easy for the Dwarves to cross over and putting them in the vacinity of what the Lore states.) The other thing that I find very intrigueing is the Boat that is sailing out of Ru'Lun Port. Assumeing it is going to Wild's End may be reasonable, (but not likely) since "One cannot gain entry to or leave Wild’s End without passing through the Grovegrass, a formidable labyrinth of paths enclosed by dense, bamboo-like foliage." but it could also be going somewhere further to the south. Why?

    Another thing is the Tenebrous Tundra, I see it mentioned quite a bit, but again it is not on the map. If anything, the map is accurate to what they had done at that period of time in development, or what they had envisioned to help with the Lore to be written. And Whitethaw is in fact to the south.

    The rules of what we know simply do not apply, Terminus is not Earth, and is exceedingly magical. The relatively small desert that is present, does not coincide with the climate of the other areas in the same Longitude (but does with the same Lat, if only a small bit of the penninsula to the south.)


    This post was edited by VitaKorp3n at December 5, 2016 9:31 PM PST
    • 432 posts
    December 6, 2016 4:21 AM PST

    VitaKorp3n said:

    The second thing is that Kingsreach is an island, not a continent, meaning that Whitethaw on your map would be an island also.

    The lore says :

    "... some forcibly joined with the Revenant, others devoured into extinction, the direct assaults on the three continents of the Six officially consummated in total war."

    So these 3 are called continents . Anyway it is not very important - a continent is just a large island . The information I use is that the 3 continents (or the 3 large islands) are large what gave me a possible size of Whitethaw that I drew on the map . Of course it can also be larger but not much smaller .

     

     

    The fact of the matter is you have what appears to be a long coast to the south which is completely missing from your maps.

    As you rightly said, no assumption not derived from the lore should be made. I just use the lore and make deductions of what is said in without adding or removing anything .

    So I drew nothing in the south because the lore says nothing about what is south of the 3 continents . I just put in the small bits of something that is on the map . This something may be small islands or something larger, I don't make assumptions . Only one thing is sure, this southern something is not part of Whitethaw continent .

     

    To be totally honest, I get the impression that the map that we are shown is a much smaller portion of the world than what you think,

     

    What part of the Lore  gives you this impression ? And what do you mean by "much smaller" ? I explained in the first post what leads me to conclude that the part we are shown is approximately what I projected on the sphere above .

     

    The other thing that I find very intrigueing is the Boat that is sailing out of Ru'Lun Port. Assumeing it is going to Wild's End may be reasonable, (but not likely) .... but it could also be going somewhere further to the south. Why?

    This is just a cartographer's quirk . They often put ships, serpents, sirens or dragons on an ocean to symbolize water . So this ship just means that Ru Lun is a port so there are ships coming and leaving often .

     

    Another thing is the Tenebrous Tundra, I see it mentioned quite a bit, but again it is not on the map.  And Whitethaw is in fact to the south.

     

    This one is quite obvious and clear in the Lore . Whitethaw is the third continent . It is indeed (not yet) on the map because the map shows only the 2 continents Kingsreach and Reignfall .

    Tenebrous Tundra is Whitethaw's  arctic (northern) part . On the map I drew above, Tenebrous Tundra is the region around Khadassa that I put explicitely  on its supposed location . I don't see what you mean by "Whitethaw is to the South" . To the South of what ?

     

    The rules of what we know simply do not apply, Terminus is not Earth, and is exceedingly magical. The relatively small desert that is present, does not coincide with the climate of the other areas in the same Longitude (but does with the same Lat, if only a small bit of the penninsula to the south.)

     

    Of course that the climates are not identical on the same longitude, they never are . On the other hand they are similar on the same latitude (with some variations depending on the planet's rotation) .

    It is precisely this property of every planet that allowed me to estimate the size of what we are shown on the map .

     

    Sure, Terminus is magical - there are dragons, elves, undead and the Gods walk in the world . Yet even in a magical world the rules of logics still do apply .

    For instance saying that "There is a magical dragon" may be true on Terminus but wrong on Earth .

    However saying "There is and is not a magical dragon" is wrong both on Terminus and on Earth .

    And it is lucky so because if saying "there is magics" was equivalent to saying "everything and anything is true (or wrong)" then any communication and any  living intelligence would be impossible and we could say nothing true (or wrong) in this thread .

     

    From the cartography point of view the lore and observations say rather the contrary - Terminus is (almost) everywhere like the Earth excepted on some places where it is not because magics explicitely changed it in some other direction .

    For instance there is still gravity allowing to people to walk on almost all places . There is still day and night witnessing of the planet's rotation around its axis . There are still seasons witnessing of the planet's orbit around its sun (or suns) . There is still gazeous atmosphere, winds, liquid water and clouds witnessing of earthlike temperatures and pressures . There are still trees, snow  and rain witnessing of condensation . Etc etc .

    It is thanks to all that that it is possible to draw informed and consistent conclusions . Otherwise everything would just be blind chaos and we could not lead this discussion .

     


    This post was edited by Deadshade at December 6, 2016 4:38 AM PST
    • 613 posts
    December 6, 2016 11:46 AM PST

    Well reading the lore and the current map is like taking a looking down on our planet earth from Jupiter. We do not have near enough Lore to speculate where all the races are located. As for the map it is nowhere near complete. I have asked this question to the Devs and have been told sheepishly it is far larger than what we can currently see. I believe them and trust them.

    Nice post VitaKorp3n! It’s all about speculation and the art of discussion. I think people get a bit overboard on theories and what the facts are. It’s all in fun and should be treated as such. No one is right or wrong. Enjoy the conversation and have fun with the possibilities.

     

    Ox

     

    • 186 posts
    December 6, 2016 12:01 PM PST

     

    Well said Ox, ty :) The fact of the matter is we just don't know... honestly @Deadshade, I think we should just "agree to disagree". I don't see this going anywhere, and it is honestly just derailing my original purpose for this topic, if you would like, you could always just make your own topic for your ideas. 

    cheers


    This post was edited by VitaKorp3n at December 6, 2016 12:09 PM PST
    • 432 posts
    December 6, 2016 2:30 PM PST

    VitaKorp3n said:

     

    The fact of the matter is we just don't know... honestly @Deadshade, I think we should just "agree to disagree".

     

    Well I could do that if you said WHAT you are disagreeing with and especially WHY ;)

    Sofar I can neither see what nor why you would agree or disagree with anything let alone with me .

     

    You say there are not 3 continents ? I give you a quote from the lore saying that there ARE 3 continents . So what is it you disagree with ? The Lore ? The definition of a continent ?

    You say that the map is upside down ? I give you quotes of the lore syaing that it is not so . Again , what is it you disagree with ?

     

    In this thread you asked for opinions about geography, lore and the race's location . It happens that I have some and all are based on the available lore so I contributed  .

    As I have been thinking about the lore already for a much longer time, did a few posts on this subject in the past year and actually even did maps, I provided my insights for those who are interested by the subject and would like to discuss ideas and arguments .

     

    So now you can either discuss  ideas and it's profitable for everybody or you can refuse to discuss anything and it's OK with me too .

    This is a free world :)

    • Moderator
    • 9115 posts
    December 7, 2016 1:05 AM PST

    I have reread this thread and revised my decision, it is now open again and up for discussion, I have removed a post and would ask that you be respectful to each other please, there is a lot of good information here from both of you and I do not want the discussion to go to waste by closing this thread, but please keep in mind you do not have all the information to go on, so speculation and guess work are based on your personal opinions, not facts and that is not a good basis for any debate.


    This post was edited by VR-Mod1 at December 7, 2016 4:59 PM PST
    • 613 posts
    December 8, 2016 10:29 AM PST

    Thanks Kilsin!! This was a good post.

     

    I was thinking on the location aspects again. Remembering the Tolkien short stories something came to mind. Yes, it did hurt. Dwarves and the even the other races were broken up in different regions of Middle Earth. I don’t or can’t see a reason why this would not apply on PRF. ( Speculation Alert)

     

    I think the main Lore or what is revealed now also may follow that same sort of thinking. Also with the map not complete it’s hard to guess until some information is released.

     

    Ox

    • 1618 posts
    December 11, 2016 6:38 PM PST

    This conversation is important to me. I plan to play an Ogre. My wife plans to play an Archai.

    I need to know how long after start it will be before we can play together.

    • 2886 posts
    December 12, 2016 6:38 AM PST

    Beefcake said:

    This conversation is important to me. I plan to play an Ogre. My wife plans to play an Archai.

    I need to know how long after start it will be before we can play together.

    If it's anything like classic EQ (and we have plenty of reason to believe it will be), good luck lol. With a massive, dangerous world and no fast travel, (and not even an in-game map) it will be no easy task for anyone to go far from home. There won't even really be any "newbie" zones that can be easily passed. From what they said in the stream, pretty much every zone will have a wide level range of monsters so if you take a wrong step into certain areas, it will mean almost certain death... followed by a corpse run :P Again, I say good luck haha. I'm guessing one of you will have to make a racial compromise if you want to play together at all in the first few weeks/months.

    • 186 posts
    December 12, 2016 6:53 AM PST

    That is something I have wondered about too, my wife and I will mostly be playing the same races, but not necessarily at the same time. An easy answer to this could be to have a caravan to port cities (with boats in between). After all, when you remove systems to make the world a bit more unknown, what better way is there to make that travel in between less daunting, and a bit safer. I remember hearing or reading about the eventuality of a caravan system, so it isn't unrealistic. Just have to save your coppers till you can buy a fare


    This post was edited by VitaKorp3n at December 12, 2016 6:56 AM PST
    • 780 posts
    December 19, 2016 9:52 AM PST

    Wasn't there something about people being able to travel easily between starting cities?  I'd actually prefer it if it was difficult to get to some of the other races, but I remember reading that somewhere and from someone official.  Bringing a new character to someone else's starting zone to level was a bit of an achievement in EverQuest, and I rather enjoyed the experience.  I also wish they'd kind of mix things up a little bit, and put some of the good and evil races on the same landmass...doesn't seem like there'd be all that much travel the way it is.  If I was an elf, why would I travel over to those Ogre/Dark Myr/Skar cities as a newb? 

    • 1618 posts
    December 19, 2016 1:58 PM PST

    I hope there is some city to city travel option, I would hate to have to choose between playing with my wife and my preferred race. If there were player factions, like horde v. Alliance, I would understand and have to choose a race within the player faction. But, I thought they said that was not the case, just NPC factions.

    https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/2220/races-classes


    This post was edited by Beefcake at December 31, 2016 3:55 PM PST
    • 780 posts
    December 19, 2016 2:14 PM PST

    Not doing the horde vs. alliance type thing, but I believe there will be races that are kill on sight in the cities of other races.  The way it looks like it's set up now, if you were a human and you went to play with your wife's Ogre/Skar/Dark Myr, you'd be on a continent full of people that don't like you.  Might be pretty tough.  Still, I'm very interested in how they facilitate players playing together at the start.  Will there be click gates between cities?  Or will you be able to take a safe boat?  Or maybe they'll end up having a few neutral starting areas spread around where people can start any race if they want to play together.