Forums » The Warrior

Warrior abilities

    • 7 posts
    September 28, 2016 8:48 PM PDT

    I know a lot of this game is based off of the old school EQ style game, which is great. I just hope it's not so much like it that half the warrior abilities are on the same cool-down. So maybe I can chain together a kick, a bash and a slam without having to wait. :-)

    • 86 posts
    September 29, 2016 12:14 PM PDT

    Vanilla EQ warriors were oversimplistic... but the first round of aa, procing weapons, and clickies helped the warrior playstyle find a nice balance.  My fear for Pantheon is the current state of the warrior in EQ.. expansion after expansion, new abilities are added with different cooldowns... and the current warrior resembles a caster/knight tank.  Plz no button mashing and 10 unique skills spamming on warrior.

    The playstlye should be simple but require precision timing and smart skill choices (like evasive being better than defensive on flurry enemies, and shield block being better for slow high dmg attacks then quick constant attacks, etc). 

     


    This post was edited by Defector at September 30, 2016 11:48 AM PDT
    • 193 posts
    September 30, 2016 2:12 PM PDT

    I definitely find the EQ warrior through Velious pretty dull.  I'd hate to see that and I doubt too many people will play warriors if that turns out to be the case unless they are just an overall superior tank.  

     

    Hopefully they can find a good balance between button mashing and just having taunt, auto attack and kick.


    This post was edited by Thanakos at September 30, 2016 2:17 PM PDT
    • 86 posts
    September 30, 2016 2:33 PM PDT

    Casuals complain the warrior was boring when truth is they werent playing warrior correctly. 

    /shield ability was a terrific ability that no one used because they didnt know (or forgot) about it.  You shoulda been using that ability constantly(Hint hint make this pantheon warrior iconic ability).  Rampage was an excellent ability to grab incoming aggro of trains just long enough for the chanter to mez lock.  Taunt and bash were not spam abilities.. you could interupt casting with bash and taunt was only to be used when aggro was lost.  Turning attack off when your health was low so you dont take riposte damage and kill yourself.. calling for DI and rune during named fights.. turning your tanked mob around so that the newly added mob wasnt hitting your back and getting that backside hit% bonus..

    Casuals complain the warrior was boring when truth is those players were doing the minimum.  Once you got some proc weapons and AA, and you learned to use mentioned tools.. warrior was friggin awesome to play.  Random groups would often ask me how I was able to stay alive and keep aggro of a train, or wtf the game says you just shielded me?! lol, or damn I didnt warrior could do that.. how did you do that?  These comments are just proof in my mind 80% of warriors in EQ didnt understand the class.

     

    • 100 posts
    September 30, 2016 4:40 PM PDT

    Defector sounds like a warrior's warrior to me.  So many people in EQ never saw the complexity of the warrior, I assume that they assumed the class was trivial and never looked beyond the surface.  I could not even count the times I ran into people in EQ who had absolutely no idea how taunt worked, eventually I gave up on explaining it to them with the exception being any tank I found that didn't understand how to use it properly. 

    I always enjoyed playing a warrior, they had very few 'oh crap' abilities and needed to be played in a highly vigilant manner which meshed well with my play style, I don't need non-stop buttons to push to keep me immersed in my character, the opposite in fact.  My biggest strength as a warrior was to be free from forced interaction and allowed to survey the battle and react accordingly in my own style.  Ain't nobody got no time for mindless button smashing.

    The warrior class defined what Everquest was.  Of all the classes in EQ the warrior was the worst when soloing but excelled when supported in a group/raid environment.  The class with the best ability to mitigate damage had the hardest time getting and keeping agro, this forced teamwork or led to consequences.

    • 171 posts
    December 16, 2016 10:17 PM PST

    Lots of abilities I can think of that could be available to warriors that are not your normal kick and slam.

    Sharpen - Sharpen your blade to cause extra damage to opponents.
    Oil - Oil and tend to your body armor to give a binus to defense.
    Feint - Deftly outmaneuver your foe to strike at their flank and cause them to turn and face you.
    Parry - Deflect a large percentage of incoming physical danage for a period of time.
    Rally - Shout that invigorates allies and gives them a bonus to attack.
    Charge - Shout that gives allies a bonus to speed.
    War cry - Shout that demotivates foes and gives them a penalty to attack.
    Vigor - Shout that gives allies a chance to shake of conditions.
    Rake - Attack that causes extra damage and has a change to cause X condition.

    Warriors can have a plethora of abilities that aid them in combat and give their allies many bonuses in combat. Unlike DLs and Crusaders, their abilities are just martial in focus rather than spell like effects.

    • 190 posts
    December 30, 2016 6:50 PM PST

    I only have experience with the Vanilla EQ warrior, but I believe they at least need some kind of CC and snare.  Bash was a very short duration interrupt and required a shield or a large race to use.  They also need a way to break out of CC and get to enemies quickly IMO.  I'm sure there was a fair amount of strategy as some people pointed out, but it was still a bind bland of a class to play.  I doubt I would ever play it even if it was the most strategic combat class in the game simple beecause it has no utility.  I like to have the option of being independent.  It's the same reason I would have never played as a Rogue.

    • 8 posts
    January 10, 2017 12:20 PM PST

    I think the key is to have a good balance between moving around the battle field and having a diverse and interesting action list. I always thought that taunt/kick/shield bash was good enough... a warrior having generic stun, root, and slows makes battle very uninteresting. So are meaningless abilities like buffs, which are just something you click for no real reason other than you are gimped if you don’t. I for one would like to see a grapple type mechanic, like D&D 3.5. Grapple the mob and then you have a whole different list of abilities to choose from.


    This post was edited by hammerton at January 10, 2017 12:22 PM PST
    • 8 posts
    March 8, 2017 4:19 PM PST

    Defector just took the words out of my mouth, couldn't have said any better. Default was to shield healer, imo. Generally if you weren't the healer and you pulled aggro, you didn't assist! 

    I like the Grapple idea. Would be nice to have a general ability with a low to mid cooldown for AoE tanking; Swipe or Cleave.

    • 3 posts
    May 14, 2017 9:21 PM PDT

    If it anything like a Vanguard warriors, theyre gonna be great.

    • 47 posts
    May 22, 2017 5:12 PM PDT

    I agree with Defector I can't tell you how many time I was able to save the group/raid because I was able to watch everything that was happening around us and act accordingly beacuse I was not button smashing. Give the warror the ability to tank anything & to grab agro in a pinch leave the button smashing to other games 

    • 7 posts
    May 23, 2017 3:08 PM PDT

    I'm not looking to button mash, I would just like a few more abilities. There can be a happy medium.  And, watching your surroundings is just part of tanking, no matter how many abilities you have.

    • 16 posts
    May 25, 2017 2:01 PM PDT

    Well.. if going with EQ1 style classes, than The Warrior should adhere to EQ1 style gameplay. The reason is because within that dynamic, The Warrior fulfills a specific archetype(tanking) that is locked with other very specific archetypes in a group that are working in concert to kill a mob.

    The problem with The Warrior in EQ1 is that it was broken on release up until the melee combat system revamp in i believe LoY. But in the early game the warrior accidentally got relegated to unique snowflake status because nobody on the development team really knew what to do with it. By unique snowflake status, it couldn't perform the functions within its archetype in the same manner as the others. Allow me to elaborate.

    Tanking - The ability to get agro and keep it.

    In short, how it should work, is when a tank hits his buttons correctly, he has agro. Enough agro so that the DPS can manage their agro(of which each class of that archetype are given means of lowering their threat), without insta-pulling top hate.

    Both the SK(lifetaps) and Paladins(heals) were given hate on command out of the box to perform this very task. The Warrior? They had no idea what to do with That Guy. He swung his metal-type weapons... and everybody sat on their thumbs for a portion of the fight while he 'built agro'. For any mobs that didn't one-shot the tank before slow, a SK or a Paladin were used, particularly in group settings, because they had hate on-command in order to grab it and hold it. For mobs that did one-shot the tank, one or two Warriors got to be the shining stars in the night that got to roll defensive.

    With Velious, they started to see the folly of their ways and made the first step to fix this and introduced heavy weapon procs in Enraging Blow. This would drop a random large amount of hate every so often so it would help build hate faster.

    This all came to a head finally in LoY(i believe it was introduced there) when they introduced The Combat System for melee.

    Stamina was revamped to a resource called Endurance. Combat Abilities were provided by Tome. They were tuned via the Endurance Cost(which became less and less relevant).

    More importantly, they finally caved and recognized that the core problem is that swing/auto-attack dps simply couldn't provide the hate needed to scale with the hate from casters, particularly as the game expanded. It simply couldn't. Nor could procs as that couldn't rise fast enough to keep up, or would stubbornly not proc at the start, and they were usually tied to weapons which meant the only way you could upgrade your ability to generate hate was through drops, an untenable solution. So they provided the same thing Paladins/Sk's had since release... hate on demand. You hit a button, your character gives the mob a double middle finger, disses its mother, whatever gamey type description you need, and you generate X amount of hate from the mob for having done so. There is a duration before reuse for Y seconds. Hate modifiers were provided via gear. Usually you have two of these on different timers @ around 30 seconds per shot. They also provided an AE hate on a longer timer(45 seconds at the start) that could be used to drop hate on everything around you, so you could pickup incoming adds without the healer eating them when the first heal lands on the tank. And then a big bomb of hate on a long timer(a couple minutes). All the timers could be shortened to some extent through AA.

    This, in turn, took the warrior from a largely passive participant to an active one. The melee system is still a great thing, don't get me wrong. But melee hit buttons to modulate their melee abilities. Its what they do. They might hit buttons to increase soak for a period of time. They might hit buttons to increase their offensive capabilities. But They Hit Buttons. Warriors tend to generally hit less buttons. I still remember doing the goats in QVIC and i'd be like.. welp, you aren't getting agro(had a Bloodfrenzy at the time).. off to get lunch... come back in 10 minutes and they were at 20%. Seriously.. you could MT mobs once you got the mob and the agro(and/or defensive rolling) and then really.. you were sitting there doing nothing other than hoping the healers didn't mess up. That was the early game. It was.. interesting. A lot of Luclin was dreadful that way. Tons of HP, tank and spank, and you just simply kept beating on it with heals until it finally dropped.. probably of exhaustion.

    In short, they would do well to look at the lessons and the fixes that went in, because they were very fine solutions to the original issues that allowed the game to finally scale properly while allowing Warriors to fully perform their Archetype. That they're even thinking about having agro being something to 'fight' for(unless the event is setup for it).. just has me really wondering if they simply never understood why that was wrong.

    If a class hits their buttons properly, they should do their archetype properly.

    Warriors get Agro(and can build up their ability to generate it through gear and abilities) and absorb lots of Damage.

    DPS gets Deagro abilities to make sure they can live within the Agro of the tanks. Those deagro abilities get enhanced via gear.

    DPS should be careful and modulate what they're doing at the start of an expansion to stay within the start agro all tanks can provide. DPS should get a bump through group gear and be able to do more under that agro to increase their DPS. Once in raid gear it should be the 1812 Overture. What they shouldn't be doing is sitting around half the fight Waiting for Guffman. People tend to like playing their classes, not NOT playing their classes.

    Play the classes right, do your job right, get the cheese. Don't do your job right, get penalized and wipe, try again and get better.

     


    This post was edited by Quillim at May 26, 2017 9:39 AM PDT
    • 214 posts
    May 31, 2017 3:27 PM PDT

    Remember tanking avatar of war for 45 sec before anyone could touch it ? ( assuming you didnt have your epic done ! ) fun time ! 

     

    \now get that blade of Carnage and your sword of Strategy !

     

    P.S.: I often did use riposte disc on pull to build aggro fast once that got it.

    • 500 posts
    June 5, 2017 7:49 AM PDT

    Umbra said:

    Lots of abilities I can think of that could be available to warriors that are not your normal kick and slam.

    Sharpen - Sharpen your blade to cause extra damage to opponents.
    Oil - Oil and tend to your body armor to give a binus to defense.
    Feint - Deftly outmaneuver your foe to strike at their flank and cause them to turn and face you.
    Parry - Deflect a large percentage of incoming physical danage for a period of time.
    Rally - Shout that invigorates allies and gives them a bonus to attack.
    Charge - Shout that gives allies a bonus to speed.
    War cry - Shout that demotivates foes and gives them a penalty to attack.
    Vigor - Shout that gives allies a chance to shake of conditions.
    Rake - Attack that causes extra damage and has a change to cause X condition.

    Warriors can have a plethora of abilities that aid them in combat and give their allies many bonuses in combat. Unlike DLs and Crusaders, their abilities are just martial in focus rather than spell like effects.

    I have to say, if thise abilities were truly what everquest warriors got, I am very disappointed. While most classes are getting something believably class specific, warrior is getting ... Stuff any other melee (and sometimes magic using) class could easily do.

    -mobile

    -Todd

     

    • 718 posts
    January 6, 2018 4:39 PM PST

    Frankly, Classic-classic warrior was a tabletop d&d ripoff : Strong attack bonuses, numerous simultaneous attacks, passive bonuses and.. that was all.

    When EQ released, RPG had usually turn per turn gameplay where a single attack was already an exciting rand, but MMO's, dynamic gameplay and such changed the perception from exciting rands to underwhelming unnoticed white damage.

    In the end, the warrior ended a very weapon starved tank, needing procs with obvious (BoC) or hidden (Ykesha/Stuns) hate gains, haste items to fuel the dual wield/triple attach, and high STr and DEX to increase maximum damage and trigger procs.

     

    The overall was then, simply increasing the fueled machine while throwing a kick/slam somehow for a bit more damage.

     

    But clearly, while it could feel rewarding and satisfying, with many attacks and criticals, procs, etc... well It ended you looked you character attack by himself and deal the job withouth your participation. Of course late-LATE expansions changed this to make it more engaging to play, but I don't think it's healthy to wait for a ripoff of this gameplay.

     

    I don't know what are their plans about white damage, because it used to be less and less meaningfull or appreciated, however it seems there is still a huge amount of white damage in Pantheon "for now", looking at the few streams where joppa was cutting dwarves with furious swings.

    • 86 posts
    March 23, 2018 10:06 AM PDT

    tehtawd said:

    Umbra said:

    Lots of abilities I can think of that could be available to warriors that are not your normal kick and slam.

    Sharpen - Sharpen your blade to cause extra damage to opponents.
    Oil - Oil and tend to your body armor to give a binus to defense.
    Feint - Deftly outmaneuver your foe to strike at their flank and cause them to turn and face you.
    Parry - Deflect a large percentage of incoming physical danage for a period of time.
    Rally - Shout that invigorates allies and gives them a bonus to attack.
    Charge - Shout that gives allies a bonus to speed.
    War cry - Shout that demotivates foes and gives them a penalty to attack.
    Vigor - Shout that gives allies a chance to shake of conditions.
    Rake - Attack that causes extra damage and has a change to cause X condition.

    Warriors can have a plethora of abilities that aid them in combat and give their allies many bonuses in combat. Unlike DLs and Crusaders, their abilities are just martial in focus rather than spell like effects.

    I have to say, if thise abilities were truly what everquest warriors got, I am very disappointed. While most classes are getting something believably class specific, warrior is getting ... Stuff any other melee (and sometimes magic using) class could easily do.

    -mobile

    -Todd

     

     

    No these were not EQ abilities.  The OP was just making suggestions.

     

    I have no problem with keeping autoattack/white damage with additional abilities built on top of that system.

     

    IMO Additional abilities should include:

    Snap single target hate ability

    Snap AE hate ability

    Rally abilities to briefly buff your group both defensively(ex. immunity to fear, resistance to special attacks/criticals) and offensively(increase your group ability to critical hit, identification of enemy weakness or dispositions)

    Demorilize abilities to weaken or 'fear' enemy(ex makes NPC 'run' at 30% instead of 15%, increases the cooldown on enemy special attacks so they cant perform them as often, briefly confuse all enemies around you such that you have a second or two without being attacked ideally used for trains/lockdown)

    Ability to share a portion of the damage sustained by a squishy groupmember

    Ability to pull/summon an enemy to you

    Ability to go 'defensive' for a damage reduction for a period of time

    Ability to parry or riposte all attacks for a period of time

     

    .. These are the type of things a warrior should have.  These are not button mashing abilities, but instead situational awareness abilities.  Most of the warrior damage and play should be autoattack white damage, but thats intended so the warrior can pay attention to the surroundings and use these situational abilities when needed.


    This post was edited by Defector at March 23, 2018 10:08 AM PDT
    • 718 posts
    March 23, 2018 2:00 PM PDT

    Here is a short list of the few abilities gathered during the Jim Lee's stream, courtesy of Pantheon official Wiki page.

     

    https://pantheonriseofthefallen.gamepedia.com/Warrior/Abilities

     

    As you can see, for now it's seemingly focused on managing threat trought the application of the anger state, that open more possibilities once applied (like opening a flaw in the armor to increase everyone's physical damage).

    Anger also serve to generate more threat throught bash, with no prerequisite for now from using a shield (Not sure this will be definitive).

    Kick seems to serve as a filler, since it does nothing more like Blackjack kick does for a rogue, I hoped they would share a cooldown so bash ends up being the shield threat maker, with kick having (like for the rogue) a haste component to increase white damage, valuable if using dual wield or a two hander.

    Shoulder crash act as some execute, buffing you if your ennemy is close to death of a percentage of your max health, favoring high HP pools. Maybe it will not be much used before the trigger range, since it costs 50 endurance and has a long cooldown.

     

    The two actual cooldown are Pity the weak and the will to live, the first beeing an aggro snap from an allied target, the second a defense buffer. What shocks me is the very high cost of thoses abilities meaning they can only be pre planed and not used as soon as needed in hard situations. Especially Pity the weak, will be hard to use to snap aggro from one target while trying to recover an other lost mob because it's too costly.

    The will to live actually costs Mana too, I don't really know why, but why not ? Maybe all survival cooldowns will share an endurance + mana cost to avoid using them all too often (like a global share cooldown, hidden behind the mana bar).

     

    Taunt is a short cooldown to snap one target threat and increase threat you generate, while I'm happy it's still a frequent tool, I'm doubtfull over the increased threat generation it implies, because it will end up being used constantly (like in Swtor) to get aggro boosts.

    I would have prefered taunt to be exclusively an aggro snap you use when you loose threat, and not to consolidate your threat, like it was in EQ1.

    • 1790 posts
    March 23, 2018 2:23 PM PDT

    MauvaisOeil said:

    Taunt is a short cooldown to snap one target threat and increase threat you generate, while I'm happy it's still a frequent tool, I'm doubtfull over the increased threat generation it implies, because it will end up being used constantly (like in Swtor) to get aggro boosts.

    I would have prefered taunt to be exclusively an aggro snap you use when you loose threat, and not to consolidate your threat, like it was in EQ1.

    I agree, having taunt on a 5 second cooldown (8s - 3s duration) seems like too much unless it also has a low chance to work (50%ish) on a large variety of mobs or has diminishing returns on the same mob within x time.

    • 718 posts
    March 24, 2018 4:58 AM PDT

    Iksar said:

    MauvaisOeil said:

    Taunt is a short cooldown to snap one target threat and increase threat you generate, while I'm happy it's still a frequent tool, I'm doubtfull over the increased threat generation it implies, because it will end up being used constantly (like in Swtor) to get aggro boosts.

    I would have prefered taunt to be exclusively an aggro snap you use when you loose threat, and not to consolidate your threat, like it was in EQ1.

    I agree, having taunt on a 5 second cooldown (8s - 3s duration) seems like too much unless it also has a low chance to work (50%ish) on a large variety of mobs or has diminishing returns on the same mob within x time.

     

    I don't think it can fail, but it looks like a nobrainer for now (low cost, low cooldown, much benefits). Maybe in a 12 slots environnement you have to incentive people about taking taunt not just "for screw up groups" but for aggro building too ? I don't really know.