Forums » Pantheon Classes

Have You Ever Min/Maxed?

    • 4 posts
    August 29, 2016 2:06 PM PDT

    I'm not quite certain where I stand on the subject.  I do enjoy the fact that some racial traits are beneficial and compliment certain classes, frontal stun immunity on Ogres in EQ seemed to just fit.  It made being anyone who played an Ogre SK thankful when they could get that cast of Feign Death off, but it didn't define the class.  However, Iksars' regen made playing any other race as a Necromancer moot when it came to counteracting the degen of Lich spells. 

    As of now, I'm playing an Iksar Necromancer (medding in Oasis while I type this and a Sand Giant just went by) so I'd be lying to if I said I haven't Min/Maxed.  I'd prefer a human but I have done it out of a necessity to stay equal to others of the same race/class.  I'm a big believer in not judging those who play a race and class combination in any way they see fit, it's all about what a person enjoys hence my curiosity on the subject.  So, while I enjoy that there are traits that make races different, I just don't like feeling locked into a race/class combination as I do with my Necromancer.

    So that leads to my curiosity on the subject...  Have you ever done it? If so, did you actively seek it out or just because you felt you needed to keep up with other players?

  • Wig
    • 210 posts
    August 29, 2016 4:08 PM PDT
    I'm all about min/maxing. I would love to get my hands on all class and race info to start theory-crafting. I do it because I want to put out as much dps as possible :)
    • 44 posts
    August 29, 2016 4:16 PM PDT

    Not to the extent of picking a race that I don't enjoy, however I do consider myself a min-maxer, generally. For example, there is an AA path for rangers in EQ2 that gives them melee attacks, melee bonuses and a fancy "Blademaster" title. I always wished to go down it because I vastly prefer that path over archery, but I never did because it would so obviously hurt the main role of that character - it just did not put out the damage.

    So, yes, that is doing something that you'd rather not - just for the sake of those extra percentages, to keep up with others and to be worth your party slot. It's easy to say that this is bad game design but, really, there is nearly always going to be a path that is "better", so you know...

    • 1823 posts
    August 29, 2016 6:10 PM PDT

    Vetherian said:

    I'm not quite certain where I stand on the subject.  I do enjoy the fact that some racial traits are beneficial and compliment certain classes, frontal stun immunity on Ogres in EQ seemed to just fit.  It made being anyone who played an Ogre SK thankful when they could get that cast of Feign Death off, but it didn't define the class.  However, Iksars' regen made playing any other race as a Necromancer moot when it came to counteracting the degen of Lich spells. 

    As of now, I'm playing an Iksar Necromancer (medding in Oasis while I type this and a Sand Giant just went by) so I'd be lying to if I said I haven't Min/Maxed.  I'd prefer a human but I have done it out of a necessity to stay equal to others of the same race/class.  I'm a big believer in not judging those who play a race and class combination in any way they see fit, it's all about what a person enjoys hence my curiosity on the subject.  So, while I enjoy that there are traits that make races different, I just don't like feeling locked into a race/class combination as I do with my Necromancer.

    So that leads to my curiosity on the subject...  Have you ever done it? If so, did you actively seek it out or just because you felt you needed to keep up with other players?

    I will min/max if the game does not punish me for doing so.  EQ1 Wizards, for example.  You had to put as many points into your INT because everything about your class was affected by INT.  What good was STA to a wizard?  To carry more stuff?  Hello weight reducing bags.  AGI?  Not like you were going to dodge anything anyway.  I had a Troll Shaman and naturally shoved all my points into STA because STA affected your hitpoints and as Shaman could convert HP into Mana effectively giving you two manapools. 

    As the game progressed, I suffered no penalty for those choices whatsoever.

    Vanguard didn't penalize for min-maxing either as every class had just 1 primary stat and a barely useful secondary stat.

    Will Pantheon actually make all our stats something that we'll need to pay attention to regardless of class?  I'm not so certain yet becuase no other game has managed to do it.

    • 361 posts
    August 30, 2016 5:35 PM PDT
    With gear/rotations yes.... race no.
    • 315 posts
    August 31, 2016 8:12 AM PDT

    To the extent of playing a race I didn't like, no.  I have a Froggie Monk in EQ so there are things I gave up.  Though most called me an abomination, I had fun with it which is why I logged in everyday.

    Now gear and rotations, probably not as hard core as some, but I try to play my toons reasonably well.

     

    For those that do min/max..to the max: I think it's cool.  Watching what some people can do with a class is simply amazing.  I remember learning the hard way long ago that an EQ Enchanter (well played) is not a class to be toyed with in the arena.  Anyway, apologies for the digression.  Rock on folks, in whatever way you wish to play :)

    • 323 posts
    September 8, 2016 5:46 PM PDT

    Often playing a cleric has caused me to want to be the best healer possible. I do remember saying that I wanted to be the best healer in the entire game in more than one game that I have played. I don't think I ever actually reached my goal, but I may have come close on occasion.

    So, yes to achieve a maximum goal I have played a min/max play style more than once. That said, I have had many characters that I have simply just played and enjoyed without going crazy. I think there is plenty of room for both and plenty of enjoyment therein also.

    • 408 posts
    September 11, 2016 12:38 AM PDT

    With recent and current mmo's, where all the information is available prior to release / patch updates, I have done my research prior to playing and min/maxed.

    This has sometimes made me feel a little less attached to these characters as a result. My class / race decisions in this case have felt very calculated and scientific, instead of spontaneious and dynamic (and I've always felt more attached to those characters that I made without checking numerous sites and researching for hours on end).

    I feel this is partly because of the the newer-age gamer and game mechanics - where ilvl and numbers seem to hold so much weight, with awesome raid tools that would traditionally be used by top tier raid guilds now being used by all, and being used to judge all others (excuse the generalisation).

    I think that for me, the best option is to choose the class and race without min/max influences, and then once I'm nearing end-game (in regards to gear / content), to then maybe look at getting a little extra mileage out of my class.

    Like Vetherian, I don't judge others for choosing race / class combinations, but in raid scenarios or random pug's I definately have felt that others are judging my choices or scrutinizing my every action. I didn't feel this way in EQ, only with newer mmo's with things like LFR / LFD where no one really cares who is in the group, only that they finish the objectively and get out of said groups as quickly as possible.

    • 49 posts
    September 12, 2016 12:22 PM PDT

    I'd think most of us have done it with at least an alt. 

     

    It's tricky though, no one likes working on a character for a few months to learn that if they made their character different initially they'd be far better off.  There's a reason a lot of games have race change options (and some even class changes).  

     

    You want racials to be something special, but it just can't make too big a difference, especially at more challenging game play where every little bit matters. 

    • 260 posts
    September 20, 2016 4:42 AM PDT

    I actually highly value characters' class/race rarity so I end up "min"ing most of the time, haha. I like to turn heads: "Woah, was that a Gnome warrior?" 

    • 1852 posts
    December 26, 2016 3:32 PM PST

    I don't bother too much while leveling up, because your gear is constantly changing. However, once you get max level, it's time to be serious and contribute as much as possible to the raid force.

    • 37 posts
    December 26, 2016 4:20 PM PST

    For gear and abilities, yes, to a large extent -- although I have eschewed building a class via talents or skill points a certain way because it's popular.  I prefer to try different builds (if the game allows for it) and find something different that is effective.  In fact I enjoy doing that.

     

    As far as race/class combos, nope.  I realize that this is basically cognitive dissonance in that I will min/max for gear, but not for race, but I look at it like this: I can always change gear if I don't like the way it looks.

    Example:  For some reason I was always drawn to humans in EQ.  Don't know why.  They couldn't see at night, didn't really have any advantages that I can remember.  And I would always try to make my way to Gfay / Crushbone to level.  Guess I'm just a massochist but being one of the few level 10 humans over there duking it out with the orcs just made it fun to me.  

    • 60 posts
    January 17, 2017 7:38 AM PST

    Yeah, I always min/max for everything. I enjoy doing the research required to find the perfect race/class combo, the perfect dps setup, etc. I can sit for days before the launch of a game just min/maxing stats. I'm also a player that enjoys competing for server firsts and usually play the open beta to plan my route out before launch for weeks. It's a love/hate relationship but in the end it's more love than hate :).


    This post was edited by Stephen at January 17, 2017 7:38 AM PST
    • 108 posts
    January 19, 2017 12:58 PM PST

    The extent of my min-max is sensible gear choices, sensible weapon choices, and using the best rotation for what skills I have.  In WoW, I always played a dual dagger rogue, even when the parses showed skills with the dual mace/sword were a little better in DPS.  Why? The character was a "dagger rogue".  That's what I envisioned for the char during creation. So I played that dagger rogue with the best talents I could do to stay in that spirit.

     

    When I play Pillars of Eternity or Icewind Dale 2 I never reduced attributes to minimum.  I would have a 16-14-10-12-14-10 or something. (numbers not exact but shown in the spirit of char creation)

     

    I did like playing a Breton dagger thief in Skyrim though.

     

    Human Quellious monk in EQ

     

    Edit:  I do agree with the sentiment that the character means more when you are more spontaneous with the race/class mix.  Rather than sterile by the book from the theorycrafting.


    This post was edited by FierinaFuryfist at January 19, 2017 1:00 PM PST
    • 131 posts
    January 22, 2017 4:09 PM PST

    Yes regarding gear/stats. Especially if you can't just go and max all stats and resists

    • 167 posts
    January 22, 2017 9:49 PM PST

    The only toon I never min/maxed on was my pally in VG.  He was a dwarf, which was good but not the best.  He was always behind other tanks since he was missing str and dex.  All my casters started as gnomes because of the int bonus, and spell damage was tied to int.  Healing power was tied to vit, so goblins  (or humans) were my healer to begin with.  VG had race change, so I would race change them to something better suited for raiding once they hit that level. 

    The only class I won't min/max is my dwarf paladin (or crusader, if I want to play that class)  My pally's have all been dwarves since I started playing D&D back in the 80's. 

    • 582 posts
    February 2, 2017 8:10 AM PST

    I have min/maxxed everything since my 2nd toon in EQ back in 99. Have also been heavily involved in theorycrafting over the last 5 or so years in wow so it's usually pretty easy to spot what the best choices will be without having to do serious math.