Forums » Pantheon Classes

Gear Dependency

    • 180 posts
    August 8, 2016 4:33 PM PDT

    I would like to see all classes "gear dependent," to some degree or another.  Classically, melee classes have been much more gear dependent than casters who typically gain most of their power from spells.  Making spells as rare and hard to get as some rare armour drops would help balance this to some degree.

    Would anyone else like to see more of a balance in this area?

    • 2419 posts
    August 8, 2016 6:42 PM PDT

    Thanakos said:

    I would like to see all classes "gear dependent," to some degree or another.  Classically, melee classes have been much more gear dependent than casters who typically gain most of their power from spells.  Making spells as rare and hard to get as some rare armour drops would help balance this to some degree.

    Would anyone else like to see more of a balance in this area?

    You have read about the environmental affects, colored mana system amongst other things which all have reinforced what Kilsin and Brad have said on these forums many times that gear will matter and we'll need multiple sets of gear switching out depending upon what environments and situations we'll be facing.

    I would extrapolate that to mean we will not see much gear with +X to all resists and that gear choices will have some actual meaning.

    That said, I agree with you that in the past melee have been far more gear dependent than casters as melee had to cover more stats with their gear while casters could min/max focusing on their prime stat.

    • 2 posts
    August 9, 2016 7:16 AM PDT

    Vandraad said:

    Thanakos said:

    I would like to see all classes "gear dependent," to some degree or another.  Classically, melee classes have been much more gear dependent than casters who typically gain most of their power from spells.  Making spells as rare and hard to get as some rare armour drops would help balance this to some degree.

    Would anyone else like to see more of a balance in this area?

    You have read about the environmental affects, colored mana system amongst other things which all have reinforced what Kilsin and Brad have said on these forums many times that gear will matter and we'll need multiple sets of gear switching out depending upon what environments and situations we'll be facing.

    I would extrapolate that to mean we will not see much gear with +X to all resists and that gear choices will have some actual meaning.

    That said, I agree with you that in the past melee have been far more gear dependent than casters as melee had to cover more stats with their gear while casters could min/max focusing on their prime stat.

     

    And to take the gear dependance further - the classic problem we've seen in the past is casters seem overpowered in the early game and then when players get the best gear available the melee classes pull ahead.  I'd like to see caster abilities scale with gear stats enough that relative power gains seem smoother across the board.

    • 1778 posts
    August 9, 2016 2:37 PM PDT

    Id like to see 50/50. Gear being very important, but skill being very important too.

    • 180 posts
    August 10, 2016 5:03 AM PDT

    celinos said:

    Vandraad said:

    Thanakos said:

    I would like to see all classes "gear dependent," to some degree or another.  Classically, melee classes have been much more gear dependent than casters who typically gain most of their power from spells.  Making spells as rare and hard to get as some rare armour drops would help balance this to some degree.

    Would anyone else like to see more of a balance in this area?

    You have read about the environmental affects, colored mana system amongst other things which all have reinforced what Kilsin and Brad have said on these forums many times that gear will matter and we'll need multiple sets of gear switching out depending upon what environments and situations we'll be facing.

    I would extrapolate that to mean we will not see much gear with +X to all resists and that gear choices will have some actual meaning.

    That said, I agree with you that in the past melee have been far more gear dependent than casters as melee had to cover more stats with their gear while casters could min/max focusing on their prime stat.

     

    And to take the gear dependance further - the classic problem we've seen in the past is casters seem overpowered in the early game and then when players get the best gear available the melee classes pull ahead.  I'd like to see caster abilities scale with gear stats enough that relative power gains seem smoother across the board.

     

    Yes. This balance is whaI I'm hoping for.  I know that in the past, a tank without his gear has been worthless while casters can still be quite effective.

    • 37 posts
    November 14, 2016 7:47 PM PST

    celinos said:

    Vandraad said:

    Thanakos said:

    I would like to see all classes "gear dependent," to some degree or another.  Classically, melee classes have been much more gear dependent than casters who typically gain most of their power from spells.  Making spells as rare and hard to get as some rare armour drops would help balance this to some degree.

    Would anyone else like to see more of a balance in this area?

    You have read about the environmental affects, colored mana system amongst other things which all have reinforced what Kilsin and Brad have said on these forums many times that gear will matter and we'll need multiple sets of gear switching out depending upon what environments and situations we'll be facing.

    I would extrapolate that to mean we will not see much gear with +X to all resists and that gear choices will have some actual meaning.

    That said, I agree with you that in the past melee have been far more gear dependent than casters as melee had to cover more stats with their gear while casters could min/max focusing on their prime stat.

     

    And to take the gear dependance further - the classic problem we've seen in the past is casters seem overpowered in the early game and then when players get the best gear available the melee classes pull ahead.  I'd like to see caster abilities scale with gear stats enough that relative power gains seem smoother across the board.

     

    Its a hard thing to ballance as specific classes have a higher need for gear . An example a tank undergeared for an encounter will just not cut it. But a chantrer even undergeared providing he or she stays at range and focuses on cc wil generally do better. Im not sure of a way to really ballance this early on. 

    Skill over gear to me is  something i truly beleive. Gear comes over time its not something you log in and have right away. 

     

     

    • 180 posts
    November 15, 2016 4:29 PM PST

    Skill is important too, but I think skill differential comes from giving players many tools to use on various encounters. There is only so much a skilled player can do if he doesn't have much to work with.  This could also be tied into situational gear and knowing when to use what gear for specific encounters.  

    • 2886 posts
    November 16, 2016 1:48 PM PST

    Thanakos said:

    Skill is important too, but I think skill differential comes from giving players many tools to use on various encounters. There is only so much a skilled player can do if he doesn't have much to work with.  This could also be tied into situational gear and knowing when to use what gear for specific encounters.  

    This is a very good point. I think the classic example of tanks being more dependant on gear than casters is more of an EQ1 problem. I really don't think every game is this way. And Pantheon is a new game. So maybe the solution to this "problem" is to make casters more gear dependant than they were in EQ rather than trying to make tanks less gear dependant. For example, maybe most mobs have a degree of magic resistance that practically negates your spells unless you have sufficient gear to overcome it. Without gear as a vital factor for advancement, there's no motivation to farm a particular boss to grind out that helmet they drop, for example. I trust that Aradune has learned enough in his time in developing MMOs that he will be able to find that balance.

    Fun side-story: One time in DDO, to prove that Clerics weren't completely gear dependant, I successfully solo healed an entire epic raid totally naked - wearing no gear for the entire thing - and just relied on my character's build, my keyboard reflexes, and strategy. DDO was more fast-action combat, so that doesn't really fit with what Pantheon is going for, but it was fun times :)

    • 690 posts
    November 29, 2016 4:18 PM PST

    Thanakos said:

    Skill is important too, but I think skill differential comes from giving players many tools to use on various encounters. There is only so much a skilled player can do if he doesn't have much to work with.  This could also be tied into situational gear and knowing when to use what gear for specific encounters.  

    I certainly agree with you. kudos for the excellent point. Gear should be unique and help define your character.

    I think what the skill people are saying though is that gear should not define your game play. You shouldnt get into a raid because you have the right helmet, you should be able to stand a chance against someone who plays the game twice as much as yourself.

    • 24 posts
    April 7, 2017 4:16 AM PDT

    In my experience, the less important gear is, the better the game is, and the less people are salty. Guild wars 2 did it the right way : you get geared in a few weeks, then you play. Yes, play. No need to farm stuff all day long before getting what you want. And you still got something to do. Then, if you lose in pvp or if you a worse in pvE, that's because the other one was better, not because you don't have everything required yet.

    On the contrary, let me give an example. In a game like Archeage, where noone is ever maxed in gear, people often get greedy, opportunist and sometimes scam just to get themselves some gear. Lots of them "work" several hours a day to get themselves the gear they want one day. It's sad. Most of them will even never get what they want. 99.9% players are still not geared after 2 years playing. They can also buy this kind of item with real money. Right. Well, a mythic weapon (which will soon not be the best one anymore) costs around 1000$ this way. Then, of course, you may need a second one if you dual wield, or a shield, a bow, and armor pieces. So you can multiply that. That's what you get with some gear-grinding based games with unbound, crafted gear. I hope you didn't mean this kind of system.

    If you really want gear to be important in this game, i'd say : 1) make it bound, and 2) not too hard to obtain, either dropped in dungeons, with decent RNG (not a deep-low drop rate that makes people grind an item for a year), or crafted with obtainable mats. That will prevent overpriced and unpayable gear pieces as well as unsatisfied players.

    Personnally, i never feel any proud of getting an expensive piece of gear with trading or finding a rare piece of gear based solely on RNG. What i like is getting interesting gear, having good options for it, but most important is player skill and overall player choices. Most games based on gear are often based on time spent playing (and not just a few hours i would say), on real money invested and not on player skill. Then you can find a hardcore player with no brain playing 10+ hours a day being better than a better skilled player with little time to play, and a skilled poor player lose pvp to a credit card warrior, just because his gear is better. All these situations happen often if the game is not set the right way. What would be interesting is easy to obtain gear with a lot a specificities, enhancing particular gameplay and not other ones. But i'm afraid of gear-based games when it comes to the time spent on getting it and money required. There are better goals in a game than getting yourself gear to me : skill, teamplay, choices, contributing to the community, etc. So i don't think the game should revolve around it.

     

    Cheers

     

    • 129 posts
    April 8, 2017 5:34 PM PDT

    Oh yay. Another game where I can gear out my character in a weekend and then go "play" with my friends for no reason at all...

     

    Gear needs to matter. This game is allegedly for the niche crowd who want harder group based content with harder rewards. Rewards that will likely be gear given how much the devs have stated their admiration for high end loot. Let's not get confused with being too gear dependent vs. handing out free gear to every casual who can't put in the time to stand out from the crowd.

    • 10 posts
    April 22, 2017 3:03 PM PDT

    Amsai said:

    Id like to see 50/50. Gear being very important, but skill being very important too.

     

    This right here, I aggree 

    I dont want Pantheons primary driving force to be a gear chase / carrot on a stick (Like wow, that has way over done it). 

    I think gear should be 50 percent or less.

    Ideally

    40 percent gear

    30 percent skills(it is tabbed targeting, not sure skill can be pushed that high)

    20 percent AAs

    10 percent rare epic class spells, that require a long quest line or some very good RNG.

     

    As to gear dependence accross the board, they really need to nail this one down solid from the start, or close to it as possible.

    My two fav classes are Bard and Paladin, Paladin in most main mmos ive played has always been highly gear dependent. Hope they can balance these things out from the begginning.