Forums » The Paladin

Paladin Role Concern based on EQ

    • 318 posts
    April 7, 2017 9:20 AM PDT
    For the love of god don't give us the same spell list as clerics just at later levels.

    A divine avatar of justice is going to get entirely different help from his/her deity than a divine avatar of peace.

    Some crossover is fine, but the first years of EQ as a paladin were utterly boring and unexciting. I lived through that once.

    Never again.

    A logical supporting argument for my stance:

    As a divine being a deity is capable of bestowing many different kinds of abilities upon a devout follower. The deity in their infinite wisdom isn't going to necessarily give strength to those who need wisdom, it would be a waste of a gift.

    Following that logic, a deity would be more inclined to bestow different tools then those bestowed upon a cleric. Now some things may be universal, because say it's a deity of healing or some such. There's going to be obviously going to be a focus upon that.

    But I'd rather much like to avoid the way EQ handled spells in re: hybrids.


    • 43 posts
    April 22, 2017 6:15 PM PDT

    My original main in EQ1 was a paladin, and I, too, suffered during the "Noone wants a paladin tank" days.  As I see it, there were a pair of reasons why paladins (and SKs to a lesser extent), were the red-headed step children when it came to group desirability:

    1. Horrible hybrid exp penalties at release through part of Kunark - 40% if I remember correctly, and the way group experience calculations worked, you actually cost everyone else in the group experience as well  The halfling warrior tank, on the other hand, would actually make the group level faster!

    2. Lack of damage - this one was cited frequently - a dual wielding/double attacking warrior with dual Yaks in vanilla would massively outdamage a ghoulbane and shield wielding paladin, while having similar (or better) mitigation thanks to superior skill caps and itemization.  Moar deeps = faster kills = moar exps.  PUGs in general wanted the holy trinity to maximize their efficiency.  Hell, it wasn't uncommon to see decently geared warriors filling DPS slots in PUGs in the original game and competing with rangers and rogues (until rogues got their big balancing buff).

    I'm doubting either of these will be applicable to this game.  Since then, here have been almost two decades of object lessons to learn from where class balance is concerned, and I doubt the devs will repeat these particular sins of the past.  

    • 599 posts
    April 22, 2017 7:31 PM PDT

    I also hope that paladins get different spell listing than a we got form the EQ1 area and im sure VR is making sure they do cause like Summistress said they are completely different classes with a few common traits.  Paladins such be pushing as much damage as a DL is my honest opinion, or is that saying paladins should be pushing as much damage as a shadow knight in EQ.  And if you are going to make paladin an undead focused class like they were in EQ please give out more undead zones and make them have more undead damage capabilities plz, the ward undead spell was a nice touch but in later part of the game they were still getting out dpsed by warriors while fighting undead

    • 599 posts
    April 22, 2017 7:31 PM PDT

    sry it double posts it so deleting


    This post was edited by Riahuf22 at April 22, 2017 7:32 PM PDT
    • 318 posts
    May 1, 2017 9:10 AM PDT
    I am on about the same page as you Riahuf.

    Not quite sure if I am ready to say Pal and DL should be the same DPS, but I can say the large difference in early EQ severely hampered our viability.

    However the Vanguard paladin (what I REALLY hope they take away from) was abit more in line with where I on a personal level would like the paladin class to be.

    If the stances are done properly and our spell set up is done correctly I think we will be absolutely fine.

    However if compared to EQ realistically we are going to have to give up alot of our healing ability (not a problem for me) in order to do that, otherwise balance will be a bit difficult.

    The EQ paladin was far to "watered down" cleric and not enough " arbiter and bringer of justice" for my personal preference.
    • 4 posts
    May 4, 2017 9:41 PM PDT

    When I think of a paladin I think of a martial caster using either sword and shield or a 2handed weapon. Maybe they could have stances that change the way they play. Like being in a 'Protector' stance could increase the threat/potency of their healing abilities for generating threat and making them a good tank to partner with a healer that heals less but brings other benefits like buffs/debuffs. Then having a 'Retribution' stance or something that makes them more offensive and more of a dps/ot with the ability to debuff enemies with things that make them do less damage/take more damage. Either case, I feel they need to be versatile class and feel like a hybrid that has a couple of unique aspects to them that make them desired in either role of a Tank/Off-Healer or a DPS/Off-tank.

    I never played much of EQ, but some good examples of paladins in games I've played would be 3.5 Pathfinder, FF14 and Vanguard. 

    • 15 posts
    May 7, 2017 6:54 PM PDT

    I am interested to see what the Paladin will be in this game.  I played a Paladin in EQ1 for many years and it had its ups and downs.  This game looks like it has great potential. 

    • 599 posts
    May 8, 2017 12:10 PM PDT

    Sunmistress said: I am on about the same page as you Riahuf. Not quite sure if I am ready to say Pal and DL should be the same DPS, but I can say the large difference in early EQ severely hampered our viability. However the Vanguard paladin (what I REALLY hope they take away from) was abit more in line with where I on a personal level would like the paladin class to be. If the stances are done properly and our spell set up is done correctly I think we will be absolutely fine. However if compared to EQ realistically we are going to have to give up alot of our healing ability (not a problem for me) in order to do that, otherwise balance will be a bit difficult. The EQ paladin was far to "watered down" cleric and not enough " arbiter and bringer of justice" for my personal preference.

    I am fine with giving up a large amount of my healing abilties to do sometihng in terms of dps like maybe what your saying in VG, this wouldn't bother me at all, i just got tired of being looked past simply becuase my dps was nil but could basically live forever for as long i had some abilties up lol.  but i want to feel like i helping things die and not be just the guy getting smacked around and basically just taking it and not doing anything about it i guess.

    • 15 posts
    May 11, 2017 10:19 PM PDT

    I played a Paladin in EQ1 from 1999 till 2003 and what I loved most about the Paladin back then was the Stun spells and how 2 paladins could could dang near lock down a caster npc from getting few and far between spells off :)   If I wasn't the main tank and we got an add, I would get aggro, move it away from the group, stun and root it and get back into the fight.  If things went sideways, I could stun, root and run away :)      Brave Brave Sir Robin.....

    As others pointed out above, hopefully they will lean more twords the Vanguard kind of Paladin and not the old EQ paladin.....

     

     

     

    • 6 posts
    May 18, 2017 4:09 PM PDT

    Paladin in FFXI was perfect in my opinion....best defense, best shield block, and self healing!  If I think could add maybe one more mechanic to the role it woulD be a little more fun...I enjoyed it in FFXI and it was a very sought after role

    • 22 posts
    December 4, 2017 5:32 PM PST

    Isn't this kinda the hybrid paradox though. I mean if you want to be a jack of all trades, you can't also be a master? One way to fix it is to avoid making "pure" classes and make every class a hybrid of 2 verticals.


    This post was edited by endylendari at December 4, 2017 5:37 PM PST
    • 51 posts
    December 5, 2017 8:53 PM PST

    Anyone who thought the Paladin was a "Watered down cleric" in classic EQ wasn't playing a Paladin well at all.

     

    Best snap agro in the game, ability to rez, stuns and interrupts for days, lull pulls, LoH for emergencies.

     

    Please don't hymogonize the classes. Don't ask for them to make Paladins damage dealers. I don't want another MMO where every class feels the same.

     

    I'm maining a Paladin - and am totally OK with dealing very little damage, as long as I have my defensive utility.

    • 82 posts
    December 7, 2017 7:43 AM PST

    I am very interested to see where VR eventually ends up with its vision of the paladin.  I honestly didn’t have a lot of fun playing a paladin in EQ1 but I was younger and quite possibly never grasped the intricacies of the class.  As Dulu mentioned, the thing I hope is always first and foremost in the dev’s minds is keeping classes very distinct.

    For paladins I can ”see” two clearly different approaches to the image of the class.  Either a divine bulwark, defending their party from all blows, or a holy avenger or crusader that is hell bent on smiting the enemies of their deity.  Seeing the paladin has been stated to be a tank class, I imagine it will look more like the former.  

    That being said, I think it would be interesting to see a mechanic wherein we might see the paladin’s more vicious nature.  Something akin to an enrage or righteous fury triggered by a group member death, or based off an internal counter of damage blocked.  Something to give paladins some burst damage without making them a dps oriented class. Suppose it could also just be an CD activated the traditional way.  

    • 87 posts
    December 9, 2017 7:46 PM PST

    I hope its the hardest classes to play and that people rarely play!

    • 182 posts
    December 14, 2017 6:44 AM PST

    I'm not sure why you'd say something like this. Could you clarify and tie it to a larger point?

     

    Leowna said:

    I hope its the hardest classes to play and that people rarely play!

    • 318 posts
    December 14, 2017 8:05 AM PST

    Verdic said:

    I'm not sure why you'd say something like this. Could you clarify and tie it to a larger point?

     

    Leowna said:

    I hope its the hardest classes to play and that people rarely play!

     

    Just guessing, because excelling at a rare and difficult class has a prestige value that really helps your personal rep.