Forums » Pantheon Classes

race-class combinations idea

    • 643 posts
    July 7, 2016 10:18 AM PDT

    I did use the search function and didn't find this specific topic, but I suspect it's there somewhere.....

    I respect the idea that certain races can't be certain classes.  For example, a Barbarian cannot be an Enchanter or a Halfling cannot be a Necro.

    But that creates an artificial limitation.  Hear me out on this idea.....

     

    Just as an example of my thinking: I am not arguing that Halflings SHOULD be necros.  I don't think so.   But I think they should not be necros because they are terrible at it and it goes against everything they are and its impossible for them to live their life as a necro and even find a necro mentor/trainer.  

    I think every race should be allowed to pick every class, but (big, huge "but") it should be so terrible and difficul that the problems are what stops it, not some game construct.

    OK, if I try to be a Halfling Necro (just continuing that one example, but you can extrapolate to other combos) my life would be miserable : my hometown would shun me, no one would deal with me, I would be terrible at these skills.  It would be so bad I simply won't ever do it.   Instead of being 100% effective (like a Dark Elf Necro), a Halfling Necro might be 5% effective - it might be 20-times harder for them.

    OK, OK, OK....here is why :

     

    1) It actually adds the illusion of choice.  Players FEEL more like they are immersed in a world where they live a virtual life.  They are in control of their characters destiny.  Free Will, and all that.  Just like an anorexic midget can't ever be a Sumo wrestler, but in this real world, they can TRY.

    Similarly, there is nothing that says a deaf man can't be a music critic.  They would be the world's worst critic and essentially forced to choose a more suitable career but there are no laws-of-the-universe preventing them from failing with bad choices.

    The choice is theirs.  The obstacles and impossibilities they face drive them to make that choice.  There is not artificial label that stops them from ever trying.  They don't try but based upon their OWN choice.   Similarly, a Halfling necro's life would SUCK, but they (the player) make the choice.

    So #1 - more immersive realism feel, with freedom of choice

     

     

    2) This can actually add a whole new dynamic to the game, especially later on if/when long-time players get bored.  Imagine how cool it will be to meet someone totally wildly different and being so impressed with them "wow!  you're an Ogre Cleric!  How did you ever do that ?"  Later on, players might embrace that as a whole new challenge in the game "yeah I got bored after ten years so I rerolled and decided to make a Wood-Elf Shadowknight for the challenge!

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     


    This post was edited by fazool at July 8, 2016 6:07 AM PDT
    • 500 posts
    July 7, 2016 10:32 PM PDT

    fazool said:

    I did use the search function and didn't find this specific topic, but I suspect it's there somewhere.....

    Irespect the idea that certain races can't be certain classes.  For example, a Barbarian cannot be an Enchanter or a Halfling cannot be a Necro.

    But that creates an artificial limitation.  Hear me out on this idea.....

     

    Just as an example of my thinking: I am not arguing that Halflings SHOULD be necros.  I don't think so.   But I think they should not be necros because they are terrible at it and it goes against everything they are and its impossible for them to live their life as a necro and even find a necro mentor/trainer.  

    I think every race should be allowed to pick every class, but (big, huge "but") it should be so terrible and difficul that the problems are what stops it, not some game construct.

    OK, if I try to be a Halfling Necro (just continuing that one example, but you can extrapolate to other combos) my life would be miserable : my hometown would shun me, no one would deal with me, I would be terrible at these skills.  It would be so bad I simply won't ever do it.   Instead of being 100% effective (like a Dark Elf Necro), a Halfling Necro might be 5% effective - it might be 20-times harder for them.

    OK, OK, OK....here is why :

     

    1) It actually adds the illusion of choice.  Players FEEL more like they are immersed in a world where they live a virtual life.  They are in control of their characters destiny.  Free Will, and all that.  Jusr like an anorexic midget can't ever be a Sumo wrestler, but in this real world, they can TRY.

    Similarly, there is nothing that says a deaf man can't be a music critic.  They would be the world's worst critic and essentially forced to choose a more suitable career but there are no laws-of-the-universe preventing them from failing with bad choices.

    The choice is theirs.  The obstacles and impossibilities they face drive them to make that choice.  There is not artificial label that stops them from ever trying.  They don't try but based upon their OWN choice.   Similarly, a Halfling necro's life would SUCK, but they (the player) make the choice.

    So #1 - more immersive realism feel, with freedom of choice

     

     

    2) This can actually add a whole new dynamic to the game, especially later on if/when long-time players get bored.  Imagine how cool it will be to meet someone totally wildly different and being so imp[ressed with them "wow!  you're an Ogre Cleric!  How did you ever do that ?"  Later on, players might embrace that as a whole new challenge in the game "yeah I got bored after ten years so I rerolled and decided to make a Wood-Elf Shadowknight for the challenge!

     

    This topic has been floating around a bit. 

    My stance is actually similar but different. 

     

    A race and a class is a personal decision for each person which I feel the developer should not limit a player on. When a player settles for less with picking their race and then puts up with a class within that race it puts a negative spin on 'choice'. The developers job is to create a theme within the world. This can be done with NPC's, Quests, the lay-out of the city and dialogue of the characters etc. You wont see a Hafling Necromancer as an NPC (maybe a villian or boss I'd imagine) but you as a player can do it because it fits you.

     

    It probably will happen so I want to also say lets not bring up arguments of Barbarian Rogues, not only does it not matter since it isn't anyones decision but the player. The things which don't make sense about somebodies race+class combo don't need to make sense to you, again its a personal decision.

     

    To beat a dead horse here are some more examples.

    Ogre Bard: being played by a 6.5 foot tall college kid who has sung base in chior since he was a young boy.

    Hafling Necromancer: #short goth chick

    Ogre Mage: The tall bear of a man who is the group DM. Naturally muscular, ex-football player who geeks it out in his free time, don't screw with the DM. Not only is he stronger than you, but he's smarter than you since he's been doing this a LONG TIME.

    Skar Crusader: Somebody who's had a hard life who's scars may be more than physical. They've devoted themselves to something they see as pure and have given up past conflicts to pursue this cause. The race appeals to their past and present, the class appeals to their newfound goals or convictions.

     

    Bring any combination up and I could probably imagine the persona of somebody who would want to play that combo. Stats shouldn't have anything to do with it.

     

    I know I'm at odds with the development team on this one, but, I think it's worth them discussing this. I thought the team doing Everquest Next was making the right decision when they were not going to restrict race class combo's for the same reasons I am mentioning. This isn't about pleasing everyone, it's about not ostracising your players. This is very important.

     

    One suggestion I made before was this

     

    Allow a race class restriction. But when attaining max level you gain an achievement which allows you to play any class of the specific race you have leveled up to max level. 

    IE: My max level Dwarf Crusader allows me to create a Dwarf Necromancer and Dwarf Dire Lord which were previously not accessable.

     

    -Todd

    • 516 posts
    August 9, 2016 5:18 PM PDT

    I don't know if Ilike that idea.  Maybe if we progeony something?