FYI, we updated the Join/Pledge page the other day -- reworked it, updated it, made an effort for it to be more accessible and understandable. We have more planned, but would love your feedback on what has been done so far, thanks.
No offense guys, i know money is factor A, but maybe there comes a time when you stop changing the rewards. Or your displaying of the (same) rewards. Sends a bad signal and allows for worries, doubts and stereotypical (but historically founded) criticism on """pre purchasing""" """paying and not even knowing what you get""", etc etc
Am sure your PR team has better ways to advertise or make Pantheon more attractive to a prospective supporter.
Just telling all the people that spent money for a founders guild that oops, turns out you won't be a part of it after all!!! isn't exactly prime advertising (and no, am not one of them, this is not a personal complaint as i am unaffected by this).
And because someone will say they didn't change anything this time: Likewise when you're showing newer members that previous benefits are now more expensive. This is not information you are dying to have out there. Reminds me of Portalarium's SotA and RSI's SC practices. Not good. Focus elsewhere.
And no offense meant :)
It is an improvement, I find it is simplified and more understandable; especially to people who may be unfamiliar to MMO's and PC gaming.
I did not think it was problematic before, but it is better. Doing the same thing in a more understandable and simpler way is always good.
dragoonn said:Ok, I already spent $120 for the Cartographers Package wich was suppose to grant me beta access already. now I gotta spend more to get in?
I don't believe anything substantially change with this latest revamp; rather, the goal was to clean the page up and make it more easily undertandable and better organized.
The changes to the pledges were at least several months ago, and Kilsin, etc. put a lot of effort into explaining the reasoning behind any changes, tweaks, consolidations, etc. So my bringing up the page revamp wasn't necessarily to look for issues or mistakes (although I've no issue with your bringing them up and asking questions, of course). Instead I was looking for feedback on the layout and presentation, hoping that the latest revamp was easier to understand and better organized.
Some of the rewards were wordsmithed and even corrected, but not a lot -- for example, the map still referred to the world/continent as 'Celestius' and not Terminus (remnants of text that dated way back to the kickstarter).
Anyway, of course, any questions or comments are welcome, whether it's due to the layout or any perceived changes.
Aenra said:No offense guys, i know money is factor A, but maybe there comes a time when you stop changing the rewards. Or your displaying of the (same) rewards. Sends a bad signal and allows for worries, doubts and stereotypical (but historically founded) criticism on """pre purchasing""" """paying and not even knowing what you get""", etc etc
Am sure your PR team has better ways to advertise or make Pantheon more attractive to a prospective supporter.
Just telling all the people that spent money for a founders guild that oops, turns out you won't be a part of it after all!!! isn't exactly prime advertising (and no, am not one of them, this is not a personal complaint as i am unaffected by this).
And because someone will say they didn't change anything this time: Likewise when you're showing newer members that previous benefits are now more expensive. This is not information you are dying to have out there. Reminds me of Portalarium's SotA and RSI's SC practices. Not good. Focus elsewhere.
And no offense meant :)
No offense taken and we appreciate the feedback. Could you be more specific, though? Where have we removed any substantial pledge rewards such that people who thought they would receive something in the past no longer do?
Again, the latest effort to revamp the page was to make it better organized, more understandable, and to change the descriptions of a few items to be more accurate (like I mentioned in the other post, change the map from Celestius to Terminus -- stuff like that).
Super Small Suggestion: Remove the asterisk at the end of the line "Pre-Alpha Tester access*." Usually an asterisk means to check a foot note below. So I went to see what the asterisk'd foot note would say - however I could not find one. I did then notice that when you mouse over that line you get the description - which is nicer than a footnote :)
This feedback isn't about the pledge page specifically - I do think that looks much cleaner now, but it is about the pledge page indirectly.
In reference to some other posters suggestions on what pledge package do I have? with the changes, etc. I think it would be good practice to have on the member's forum homepage/member page - how much money they pledged, the date of their last pledge (so there's no confusion), and what their pledge earns.
So, using myself as an example, if I clicked on my home page I could see:
Raidan - Pathfinder Pledge - Kickstarter Crossover
Pledge Date: 02/15/2014
Total Pledge: $250
Pledge Rewards:
1. Alpha
2. Beta
3. Etc.
I realize this may create some work manually for some of the development team members, but I think you'd alleviate a lot of the what rewards do I have now questions for the older members especially.
There also could be a link on the home page to say "Upgrade Now" and perhaps the difference of what that would be for the next tier up. So, again, using myself as an example - it could say on my home page - "Upgrade Now" - Advisor's Pledge - $50 dollars.
_________________________________________________
For members who joined after the changes, it would be easy as you could simply link the current rewards.
And, a bit offtopic, but to expand on Aenra's point, I think it still would be wise to allow those that pledged prior to the Tier changes (Kilsin's post) to keep all their rewards when upgrading. That would also eliminate a lot of confusion. I know I still refrain from upgrading due to that fact. I couldn't estimate how much money would be gained, but I doubt I'm the only one out of the 2000 or so that were around at that time who haven't upgraded their pledge because of it.
Skycaster said:It is an improvement, I find it is simplified and more understandable; especially to people who may be unfamiliar to MMO's and PC gaming.
I did not think it was problematic before, but it is better. Doing the same thing in a more understandable and simpler way is always good.
/Agree :)
Aradune said:No offense taken and we appreciate the feedback. Could you be more specific, though? Where have we removed any substantial pledge rewards such that people who thought they would receive something in the past no longer do?
Apologies for the belated reply. The current layout (while indeed cleaner and more.. moderny/'fresher', stylistically it is definitely an improvement) shows you past rewards that were but no longer are available at lower price ranges. Effectively removed as such. You are showing a potentially interested party that benefits once acquired at say 150 bucks are now at 300. This sheds a negative light, as it is remindful of:
i) similar practices employed in the examples aforementioned, ie artificially inflating store or pledge prices so as to push people to buy now.
ii) (hence my saying stereotypical but historically founded) the fact that one may or may not get to receive one's current benefits. Seeing them crossed out entails that such changes have already occured in the past, so who says they will not again? See what i mean?
Uncertainty. And a reminder of the negative aspects of private fundraisers (what you get, if you get it, what you paid for now and what will come to be after all). We are a cynical bunch and sadly we have been given a damn good reason to be so :)
- Remove the striked-out sections. Keep all else as is.
- Do not change format again unless absolutely necessary (ie the new forum transition)
And thank you for taking my feedback at face value. It honours you.
Raidan said:This feedback isn't about the pledge page specifically - I do think that looks much cleaner now, but it is about the pledge page indirectly.
In reference to some other posters suggestions on what pledge package do I have? with the changes, etc. I think it would be good practice to have on the member's forum homepage/member page - how much money they pledged, the date of their last pledge (so there's no confusion), and what their pledge earns.
So, using myself as an example, if I clicked on my home page I could see:
Raidan - Pathfinder Pledge - Kickstarter Crossover
Pledge Date: 02/15/2014
Total Pledge: $250
Pledge Rewards:
1. Alpha
2. Beta
3. Etc.
I realize this may create some work manually for some of the development team members, but I think you'd alleviate a lot of the what rewards do I have now questions for the older members especially.
There also could be a link on the home page to say "Upgrade Now" and perhaps the difference of what that would be for the next tier up. So, again, using myself as an example - it could say on my home page - "Upgrade Now" - Advisor's Pledge - $50 dollars.
_________________________________________________
For members who joined after the changes, it would be easy as you could simply link the current rewards.
And, a bit offtopic, but to expand on Aenra's point, I think it still would be wise to allow those that pledged prior to the Tier changes (Kilsin's post) to keep all their rewards when upgrading. That would also eliminate a lot of confusion. I know I still refrain from upgrading due to that fact. I couldn't estimate how much money would be gained, but I doubt I'm the only one out of the 2000 or so that were around at that time who haven't upgraded their pledge because of it.
As Raidan stated...I haven't upgraded, due to the fact that if I do..I will lose what was originally promised me...there must be someway to alleviate that situation.
Cana
Aenra said:Aradune said:No offense taken and we appreciate the feedback. Could you be more specific, though? Where have we removed any substantial pledge rewards such that people who thought they would receive something in the past no longer do?
Apologies for the belated reply. The current layout (while indeed cleaner and more.. moderny/'fresher', stylistically it is definitely an improvement) shows you past rewards that were but no longer are available at lower price ranges. Effectively removed as such. You are showing a potentially interested party that benefits once acquired at say 150 bucks are now at 300. This sheds a negative light, as it is remindful of:
i) similar practices employed in the examples aforementioned, ie artificially inflating store or pledge prices so as to push people to buy now.
ii) (hence my saying stereotypical but historically founded) the fact that one may or may not get to receive one's current benefits. Seeing them crossed out entails that such changes have already occured in the past, so who says they will not again? See what i mean?
Uncertainty. And a reminder of the negative aspects of private fundraisers (what you get, if you get it, what you paid for now and what will come to be after all). We are a cynical bunch and sadly we have been given a damn good reason to be so :)
- Remove the striked-out sections. Keep all else as is.
- Do not change format again unless absolutely necessary (ie the new forum transition)
And thank you for taking my feedback at face value. It honours you.
The lines that have strikethrough are not rewards that have been removed from the package, as far as I can tell, the strikethrough and X denote that they are rewards that are available at a higher tier pledge. It is explained in the legend below. Though if they want to go this route, it might have been more clear in a graph format.
The new page is clear and easy to read. There is a chart available on the "upgrade" page.
At some point you might describe what the difference in "Champion Access" and "VIP Access"
I am also currently clutching my KS Advisor's Pledge, and will continue to be afraid to upgrade it.
Later on, you might start selling "upgrade" stuff piecemeal, but I guess folks will all call it PTW. Selling some of the vanity/cosmetics/pets to upgrade your existing pledge might be a way to get some more folks interested in continuing to throw money at you.
For the page, it looks like things are much more clean and logically presented. It's an improvement :)
For the folks with concerns about the upgrade process, I was really confused by your issues and had to re-read what you were asking for a few times. I'm finally understanding it and I would agree. There seems to be a disincentive for long-time backers to upgrade now because they get diminished returns for their early backing dollars.
On the one hand I think it's perfectly ok for someone who begins backing now to get fewer rewards that people who were willing to be a backer far eariler. On the other, I fully agree that the early backers should not be at a disadvantage now if they choose to be an even bigger backer.
Bones13 said:I am also currently clutching my KS Advisor's Pledge, and will continue to be afraid to upgrade it.
Pretty much, the current system actually penalizes the original initial backers if they want to upgrade their current account; like others have said, there is NO incentive to donate any further beyond the initial KS pledge that some of us have.
Feyshtey said:For the page, it looks like things are much more clean and logically presented. It's an improvement :)
For the folks with concerns about the upgrade process, I was really confused by your issues and had to re-read what you were asking for a few times. I'm finally understanding it and I would agree. There seems to be a disincentive for long-time backers to upgrade now because they get diminished returns for their early backing dollars.
On the one hand I think it's perfectly ok for someone who begins backing now to get fewer rewards that people who were willing to be a backer far eariler. On the other, I fully agree that the early backers should not be at a disadvantage now if they choose to be an even bigger backer.
Yeah, that's why Camelot Unchained did the extra work to make two distict classifications of backers: Founders (Kickstarter folks) and Backers (website donation folks), which didn't leave founders locked with their original pledge for fear of losing certain perks by upgrading to backer tiers.
As someone else stated, while the crossed out sections make sense if you look across the whole teir, it seems uneccessary and possibly confusing. When I first saw the crossed out text I quickly scrolled down to my pledge teir and saw crossed out stuff as if I lost something I originally had. Visually I thought it was better when there was no text for parts you didn't get and that as you went to the right you saw more lines of text.
Raidan said: @Hieromonk and Manouk, The only part that is retained regardless of upgrade is the lifetime sub - Kilsin did have a large post on it. Any other item that had been obtained, but that is not included in the higher upgraded tier is lost. Using myself as an example. I pledged 250 and carried it over here which obtained the Cloth map at the Kickstarter. If I upgraded to Advisor - 300 dollar pledge, I'd lose the cloth map. I'd need to then upgrade again 200 to the 500 pledge to re-obtain what I had already earned. This is one of the only things that I'm in complete disagreement with the Dev team on as it is only potentially costing them further donations from people like myself, and from the responses in this thread, at least a few others. I'd agree with Reht that they should follow the CU model and have a Founder vs Supporter to not penalize early supporters.
Also if you purchased one of the KS pledge tiers that includes pre-alpha, you lose it if you upgrade to one of their newer pledges unless you go all the way to $1,000.