Hello Everyone,
Something I have been noticing while waiting for Alpha. I play Landmark pretty much all the time. Even with all the drama and flat out failure of EQN I still play. What I am concerned about with gaming ventures and companies is the overall drive for money. Now I understand that last statement is an oxymoron but I have no issue with companies trying to make money with their games. From what I am watching unfold at Daybreak is the wrong way to do it. I guess this is another question wrapped in here and that is, “is this how gaming companies die”? My hope is that VR does not follow the example of DBG and what seems to be a trend in the industry of ignoring your player base and rushing head long in a cash grab. I work for a company that is in the gaming industry and I am seeing this on a large scale. Information drops off and decisions get made that fly in the face of what was promised. With me it’s a trust model but when that gets broken what do you do?
To be very clear. I don’t see this with VR and I am stoking the hope embers here a little. If the guys at the top can comment on what their thoughts are without stomping on the VR vision or Pantheon Difference? With the DBG debacle still unfolding even after the EQN title kill it is more of a curiosity. Maybe it’s a piece of mind thing. I really want VR to succeed. Let’s call this Pantheon therapy.
Ox
Aradune said:Pantheon is most certainly a product of passion -- we're not just doing this to make money -- if we were, there are *far* easier genres to tackle. MMOs are hard, perhaps the hardest game genre. You've got to really be in love with them to work on them. But it's also about being profitable. The members of this team have families and bills and RL to contend with -- our dream is to create a great MMO that remains popular for months and years and that brings in the money that allows us to pay people what they deserve, to build the team as necessary, to create a working environment where people can focus on creating a great game and then keeping it great after launch without worrying about how they're going to pay bills or make ends meet. So the more people who end up playing and loving Pantheon the better. No, we're not going to veer away from the Vision to try to make an extra buck. No, we're not going to chase the wow-killer agenda that unfortunately a lot of MMOs did chase. We're just fine making a fantastic game for our audience. And that audience, when it’s made up of old school gamers as well as some percentage of newbies, is plenty large enough for Pantheon to be very profitable.
Does that help? Took it from: http://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/3215/matchmaking/view/page/2
The problem with some of these companies is the fact that they have forgotten who their customers are or put diffrently what their paying customers are. US The gamers, players etc. We are Gamers yes (But still their respected Consumers and Paying Customers)
That is what DBG is failing to see.
Things that are very diffrent to DBG than all other companys: They got sold and bought and have to answer to someone. They are now in a tight corner as seen with the developement of Landmark and the Path it is heading. But if you look at DBG to other companys there is something they fail to do and accept and that is Failure! Other respected Companys have learnt to own up on their mistakes and that is something DBG still to this day fail to do. Everyone with a hint of intelligence can see through the BS DBG put to the table. They are trying to save themselfs from downfall.
But i do still have alot of respect for the company as they do try and drive things forward to the next level. But i dont see them recovering and fear the most for them.
I have 120% Faith in Brad and VR for the Fact that he has owned up to his past mistakes. He is well aware of his enviroment and from what i have seen sofar this team seems to know very welll what they are doing and how to handle things.
If we want this game and company to suceed we need to trust them and show them our support no matter how little or how much one person can give everything helps. Just talking about it, tweeting, FB, YT even helps.
I cannot see the same Pattern for VR as the OP feared so much.
I have had contact with all kinds of people within VR and they show levels of professionalism i haven`t seen in Years.!
Kilsin is a fantastic CM how he does it...i don`t know but he does. THIS is what a CM should be like.
And the fact that there doesn`t seem to be any rushing. Yes pressure is there but they seem to not let that impact them like others would and release an half-ass product that needs major work on just because.
So if you like what they want to offer, if you like their vision, if you like what you have heard, if you want to be apart of something new. Then trust these guys!
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/game/faqs/#q45
FAQ:What are the approximate timeframes for Alpha, Beta, and commercial release?
There are many variables involved and developing a massively multiplayer game is not an easy thing to do. Our goal is to be in alpha and beta in 2016, and to release the game in 2017. But this is not set in stone, and the above dates are subject to change.
We are now nearly half way through 2016 and Pre-Alpha hasn't even started. This tells me that VR isn't trying to rush into something that's not ready like so many other companies do, that alone gives me hope that Pantheon is on the right track. Add to that the fact that Brad has said there are some systems that the team simply doesn't know if they'll work or not and won't know until Beta is under way, tells me that it's understood that a 1 month Beta just won't be enough to make sure the game is ready (if anyone has been part of the last couple of DBG Beta's you know what I'm talking about with the 1 month beta).
Personall I have no problems waiting an exra 6 months for a game if it's going to be more polished, though it would be nice if there was an update to the FAQ if the team has a better idea where they are in the process and think Beta won't happen till 2017 (or will be going into 2017).
DBG is currently just running on empty so I am not sure what is going to happen there. Recently read a few articles on Blizzard. They seem to be doing the same thing as DBG. Fast turn arounds on development and completely abandoning the player base. This does not include the latest scandal of the Vanilla WoW server. A travesty in its own right but that is for another topic.
I agree if VR needs to take a few more months to get things organized to make the game work I am all in. I think this community will support that for sure.
There was another comment on Indi based games and the impact on MMO’s. I am hoping VR stays far clear of that model. It’s a short term concept and is not compatible with MMO’s period.
Good discussion on this.
Ox
I blame it on the new generation of gamers (lol), having grown up on apps on tablets with miles of freemium games and being used to the practices of big corps like EA.
Freemium, the games are free but to make any progress without dumb luck or paying for progress/items. Intentially they make more on their in-app purchases then the loss of creating a game and selling it as a complete unit. They are also made to play in short bursts rather than expecting to sit down for a few hours at a time.
EA, for example, will sell a game but will also release the bulk of the game's content in DLC's near or at the same time as the game's release date. In order to play the full game, you should expect to fork out $200+ over time verses the original $60 initial cost of the core game itself. Take the Sim's for example. You're expected to get the expansions to do more things which should have been already been incorperated.
SOE and Daybreak (and others) went to Freemium as well, giving you items that could give you an edge in the game for real money. You can buy backpacks, mounts, armor packs, experience potions, etc that impact the progress of the game vs. only having harmless appearance armor, non combat pets, or house items. Then there is the mercs, the destroyer of groups.
Its that we want instant gratification, especially in newer crowds used to these RMT games. With enough money you can outfit your way to top level in the matter of hours/days and skip most of the content and just raid. I've known a few of those who only play MMO's for the Raiding. Perhaps they would take their time if there was more raiding throughout the level ranges?
Gaming today, particularly the envolvement of the public, causes a type of political flavor where the majority rules and the Dev's discuss and vote. Sometimes you need to be a tyrant and do what is right for the people which they'll love without them even realizing it. People inheritly love a challange and love interaction even if they feign they do not.
evogelion said:I blame it on the new generation of gamers (lol), having grown up on apps on tablets with miles of freemium games and being used to the practices of big corps like EA.
Freemium, the games are free but to make any progress without dumb luck or paying for progress/items. Intentially they make more on their in-app purchases then the loss of creating a game and selling it as a complete unit. They are also made to play in short bursts rather than expecting to sit down for a few hours at a time.
EA, for example, will sell a game but will also release the bulk of the game's content in DLC's near or at the same time as the game's release date. In order to play the full game, you should expect to fork out $200+ over time verses the original $60 initial cost of the core game itself. Take the Sim's for example. You're expected to get the expansions to do more things which should have been already been incorperated.
SOE and Daybreak (and others) went to Freemium as well, giving you items that could give you an edge in the game for real money. You can buy backpacks, mounts, armor packs, experience potions, etc that impact the progress of the game vs. only having harmless appearance armor, non combat pets, or house items. Then there is the mercs, the destroyer of groups.
Its that we want instant gratification, especially in newer crowds used to these RMT games. With enough money you can outfit your way to top level in the matter of hours/days and skip most of the content and just raid. I've known a few of those who only play MMO's for the Raiding. Perhaps they would take their time if there was more raiding throughout the level ranges?
Gaming today, particularly the envolvement of the public, causes a type of political flavor where the majority rules and the Dev's discuss and vote. Sometimes you need to be a tyrant and do what is right for the people which they'll love without them even realizing it. People inheritly love a challange and love interaction even if they feign they do not.
That first sentence says volumes for a large group of players out there now. I have folks in my circles that have no problem dropping $200 on a title and then extra for in game items. I don’t have a problem with it specifically due everyone has that right to do as they wish but it does create issues in the games. This got to have it now mentality is way out of control now. To add to that the in game persona of some of them is dramatically changed. EA and now the MOBA games have really created this monster. If I don’t get what I want via in game mechanics I will go out on Facepalm/twaddle and host of other social media platforms to wreak havoc. God forbid someone’s self esteem is impacted due not having the best gear in the game. Blizzard also contributed to this mind set. I think the game devs saw this as a trend at first and then a few saw this as a means for more cash. It’s the better mouse trap scenario. I can’t fault them for following the money. With that comes some nasty issues as we see today.
DLC is an abomination and should be beat down like a raiding orc. I am surprised there has not been more lawsuits with that subject.
Games like Star Citizen are going to be interesting to watch. EVE Online has an interesting model but it also has the pay to win piece in there. I quit playing due to that issue.
VR thankfully is openly stating that isn’t going to happen I can’t be more happy about that. I am a firm believer is if your content is solid and the game mechanics are enjoyable across the board people will come and hand over money just to be a part of it.
I think this therapy is working!!!
Ox
Let's avoid bashing other companies on our forums please guys, we don't know what goes on internally or why they make the decisions they make for their games or business models but we are all here for Pantheon, so while it is fine to discuss other companies lets keep it positive and away from slander or bashing them based on opinions, please.
Many long running companies reboot themselves at some point in their lifespan, much like movie franchises, go figure. As Kilsin said, we don't know the stratagy and strengths another company may be playing to that may only bear fruit in months or years to come. I personally still look forward to what various game studios do but the apple of my eye is this one. I'm a fan of these artists work and the genre. Doesn't mean another style is any less right for someone else.
MHO,
Zathris