Forums » The Rogue

Let's talk CC

    • 38 posts
    April 10, 2016 7:07 AM PDT

    I was thinking about this earlier... what do you think of a PVE type of "sap" or "daze" effect?

    Useful? Yes? No?

    • 570 posts
    April 13, 2016 5:48 PM PDT

    Would you expect this to stack with other such effects from other classes?  If Sap is a strength debuff, should it stack with a Shaman strength debuff?  If Daze is like a stun or short term mez, should it overwrite an enchanter mez/stun or be overwritten by it?

    Here's the thing you'd need to consider.  If the same effect from multiple classes stack, it could trivialize content to some degree.  It would then cause developers to make NPCs stronger so that the stacked effect is offset by the increased strength.  A group facing such content without both classes would be at a distinct disadvantage, players would quickly recognize this and would ensure that groups had those classes present.  Thus locking up group slots...another Holy Trinity has begun.

    If, however, they do not stack and either overwrite or are overwritten based upon the strength of the effect and/or level of the characters then having these effects would make the Rogue that much more enjoyable for those who play Rogues.

    • 66 posts
    April 14, 2016 1:29 AM PDT

    I think our Daze (stun/mez) should definately be overwritten by an enchanter's mez. The way i see the use of those skills is very situational and more of an "oh ****" skill or temporary "upon pull" quick lockdown of an add while the enchanter goes through his cast. DPS would suffer because we do have to turn off attack to apply stun/mez. but as far as being a main CC, nope. we should be more of a bandaid CC in my eyes at least. 

    • 38 posts
    April 16, 2016 6:50 AM PDT

    I agree as well. I think it should be a lower end sort of bandaid ability for emergency use.

    • 606 posts
    April 25, 2016 6:48 AM PDT

    I have never just liked a rogue as CC...I mean a stun here or there for a quick back stab but just not a daze or mez. I love the idea more of having different poisons that can inflict various debuffs.

  • Wig
    • 70 posts
    May 3, 2016 7:27 AM PDT
    Another way to make CC viable and not to have one class be the ultimate CC..have certain mobs more resistant to certain types of cc. For example, a spell caster npc, is more resistant to caster CC(or their cc won't last as long), due to them having a knowledge of magic. While a rogues physical sap ability would last much longer on a caster NPC. The reverse could be said about a melee NPC being less resistant to caster CC. This would make pulls a bit more in depth deciding what class will CC what NPC. Many times in dungeons you will see a pull with a mixture of casters and melee dps. Just a thought.
    • 27 posts
    November 3, 2016 10:58 AM PDT

    I think that a sap would be effective in PVE and most rogue classes have this aspect, however, I am a bit apprenhensive about rogues receiving this ability. First, I really feel like rogues, in addition to DPS, should focus on such utility skills as lockpicking, picking pockets, and mostly disabling traps. Second, it would far too easy to give every class some sort of CC (i.e. ranger traps, wizard roots, warrior interrupts, druid snares etc etc) thus diminishing the usefullness of CC classes such as Enchanters and (I hope, I hope) the bard. Of course, I realize that there are different types of CC (i.e. the ones mentioned above as well as the traditional mez) and of course there are single target and AOE CC, and different variations in resistence but still there is interclass dependancy to consider. Just a thought.

    • 72 posts
    April 1, 2017 6:20 PM PDT

    Would be nice to have a 8-12 second stun from the rear useable every 30 minutes.

    • 1582 posts
    April 1, 2017 6:53 PM PDT

    I never really understood Sap as a rogue ability tbh. I mean, yeah it's helpful, but that doesn't mean it's a healthy thing for them to have. I think better alternatives would be:

    - short duration stun

    - paralysis (can't move or attack, but maybe can still cast verbal spells if possible)

    - hamstring (significantly decrease run speed)

    These would make more sense to me and would be a welcome addition to their toolkit.

    • 7 posts
    April 18, 2017 10:40 AM PDT
    Vg did it well, almost evey class had a type of stun but the psy or bards had the best over wrote any stun placed, it was a great bandaid of omg save the healer type events
    • 53 posts
    April 22, 2017 12:27 PM PDT

    A rogue can't be just pure DPS, obviously, as a rogue, you must have several CC options in your arsenal. Why would you fight all day with no rules (as a rogue is supposed to fight) and never control any foe ? It wouldn't make sense. Being able to inflict huge damage but never CC would feel so unrealistic that i wouldn't like to see that, like dying with foes in low health all day because you lost the DPS race. CCs from other classes may "stack", but it's an argument to consider with the whole game and all the classes, not a reason to limit rogues especially because of what other classes are supposed to be. That argument could be told in the shaman and enchanter section, saying "what about the rogue ?" in the exact same way. That being said, what can the CCs be ? I'd say anything logic that feels like a rogue ability.

    Starting by kicking someone in the middle parts,

    making target fall as an attack,

    also using traps, like tripwires, spring traps, etc.,

    also using paralysis poisons,

    slashing tendons, slowing foes down,

    shooting an arrow in someone's foot, pinning him, etc.

    blinding foes with dirt, or a special powder,

    chocking powder,

    stunning sneak attack,

    etc. ideas don't lack.

     

    Also, there is no real need to quote former games to consider this. It's a brand new game. We just lack information about how the game will exactly be to say something accurate enough right now. This kind of topic is hard to argue accurately with, because we all ignore most of the game's content for the moment.

     

    What i can say is i'd rather see "complete" classes, with varied sets of skills open to most situations, rather than classes with huge weaknesses on purpose, (like a rogue having no CC) just to make you look for someone else to help you. Classes being different, they will always have weaknesses and highlights. Teamplay is one thing, but class versatility is also something to look for, else players will need to switch chars from one level to the other one just to stay useful, which would be bad and would break immersion.

     

    Also, CCs should not stack, they should just reset the CC to the highest base amount CC remaining, and not increase to overall CC duration. ie if target should be still stunned for 0.5s and another class applies another CC for 1s at that time, the new CC duration should be 1s ( and not 1.5s) otherwise some fights would be too easy : stack all CCs then DPS while target is CCed for 20 seconds or so.

     

     

    Cheers


    This post was edited by Gideon at April 22, 2017 12:38 PM PDT