Feyshtey said:And what indicator is given that youre qualified to attck a single rat as opposed to a storm giant?
if you think you are to weak you could try to use a different tactic where you try to lure the giant under a cliff ,in an attempt to entomb the giant with collapsing boulders a few friends have been pushing down .
Environmental combat <3
*Pantheon will redefine how the game world becomes known, and how players will work together to progress.*
So sometimes you will have to work together to take down an opponent like a giant,while you might qualify to take down a rat singly,without disease if lucky
Tenet: A belief that the greatest sense of accomplishment comes when it is shared - and earned.
Trying to stay somewhat on topic for my reply and in my humble opinion, Hell levels are more often a good thing. For myself it was a clear sign on when to stop take stock and have a serious look at my gear crafting and spell book. I took some time to farm spells make some gear and just mill around and group with random people. I broke off on my own several times for quest tank gear or money farming so i could keep up with crafting.
The main reason for hell levels at least in EQ was the spells/abilities were not well thought out. Several classes had a really hard time leveling due to very underpowered spells/abilities that would not be upgraded for 2,4,6 or sometimes even 8 levels. As many of these were the big damage spells or really good CC/Heal spells a lot of people really had to be on their game to continue to get exp.
Best example i could give was i was sitting at level 58 on my SK during EQ classic for over 3 months. I crafted an farmed while i still did my nightly group thing. I just didnt push myself as i knew i needed some downtime to just mess around. Could i have ground out to 60, yes. But i wanted to take my time and enjoy the game and farming for plat or crafting gear is a nice break from chain pulling mobs for weeks on end.
Think about their goal to create an unforgettable adventure for a moment;a bold, usually risky undertaking; hazardous action of uncertain outcome.
When we have appropriate regions for levels we create a specific path designed to lead a character down.The vertical climb that outdates content I mentioned to Beefcake.(is destructive for the adventure,in a certain way ;it also hand-holds you to avoid risky undertakings)
Feyshtey said: But... Why might i think i was too weak? What indicator is there? Size? Any number of mythical creatures are formidable without being large. Brownies, sprites, fairies, ..
hell some of the trcster gods are represented in very innocuous forms.
Lets assume your adventure leads you to a Hydra blocking the cave that leads to treasure or a different zone you want to get to.
Maybe the size would be one indicator that it is not going to be an easy fight (or you know,the fact that it is a Hydra you are about to fight) and that you need to get help.
But you decided to engage anyway ,long fight. And finally you manage to chop off one head,it grows back instantly.
You search the region for hints on how to defeat the Hydra.
Somewhere you find a hint or rumor that you can only chop off the head permanently if you scorch the wound as soon as the head is chopped off.
So that is the moment you realize you can't take it down on your own,no matter its level.
Mobs don't need a level as an indicator how challeging they are going to be.Just the looks of the mob,knowing which monster it is, can be that indicator.
Feyshtey said:And the game as a whole has always been marketed as group centric. I should have already assumed it would take a few of us to kill a storm giant.
Without a level progression does that indicate that the last advanced in masteries can take on storm giants if they simply bring massive numbers of allies?
Looking at the Hydra example,no. You can bring a massive numbers of allies to fight the Hydra,no matter how advanced the players are: if they don't figure out that they need to scorch the defeated heads,
they won't take down the Hydra.
Feyshtey said:levels the most logical progression system. Anything else isnt an mmo. Its the Sims.
A few other quotes that are relevant:(and there are still questions about them too ,why you might find it vague)
*Dynamic NPC Encounter Groups
The world is not static and unchanging – every day is not ‘groundhog’ day.
Events occur that can completely change the population of a zone or the population of a group of NPCs within a zone (and the rarer the event, the rarer the rewards -- many exotic items can only be obtained when one of these zone events occur).
An example: after you kill some key mobs guarding a hill giant camp, this triggers a zone event that loads up an invading force of Storm Giants who then proceed to attack the Hill Giant camp. *
An understanding that player involvement is required for progression.
All actions (or lack thereof) should have consequences. Positive actions should be rewarded. Apathy or lack of action should not be rewarded with bonuses.
It has been playing on my mind that NPC would have progression ,and apathy or lack of player action,rewarding them instead with 'bonuses' ,allowing them to evolve ,small appearance alteration. A medusa empress might gain a crown and wear extra juweleries ,compared to the unevolved medusa
*NPC Dispositions and Behaviors
An area we have not seen much innovation in MMORPGs, almost since their inception,
is the area of NPC AI. What if certain enemies had different “dispositions” that had to be discovered by the player?
Many NPCs in Pantheon will have advanced behaviors, like the propensity to flee if possible, or to stand and fight to the end.
Some NPCs will be inclined to help other NPCs in the area, while some will not.
Some will target certain classes within the group that is attacking them.
NPC’s movement speeds may vary if they feel they are outmatched. While it is too early to go into a lot of detail,
some of the different dispositions we are working on include: the Alarmist, the Bully, the Craven, the Opportunist, the Protector, and the Strategist.*
Nice that you mention Legends of Grimrock,Malsirian
it uses a mastery system.
In Grimrock isn't it something along the lines of:
Spellcraft
10 Skillpoint spent in spellcraft (apprentice) unlock a magicschool of your choice
20 Skillpoint spent in spellcraft (novice) Combat Caster (25% faster spell casting) ability to cast novice spells + ability to cast all other spells at novice level
30 Skillpoint spent in spellcraft (expert) Improved Combat Caster (50% faster spell casting) ability to cast expert spells + ability to cast all other spells at expert level
40 Skillpoint spent in spellcraft (master) overload and ability to cast master spells + ability to cast all other spells at master level
50 Skillpoint spent in spellcraft (grandmaster) Spell energy costs are reduced by 50% and ability to cast grandmaster spells + ability to cast all other spells at grandmaster level
Athletics
10 Skillpoint spent in athetics (apprentice) -extra endurance (decrease food consumption rate by 25 % )
Also could affect how far you can go below 0 hp before an unconscious character dies.
20 Skillpoint spent in athetics (novice)-Porter (Increases carrying capacity by 15kg)
30 Skillpoint spent in athetics (expert)-Resist Poison +10, Resist Shock +10
40 Skillpoint spent in athetics (master)-Resist Fire +10, Resist Cold +10
50 Skillpoint spent in athetics (grandmaster) -Iron Body (Health +100)
Unarmed combat
10 Skillpoint spent in unarmed (apprentice) -dexterity +1 health +10
20 Skillpoint spent in unarmed (novice)-Jab (A precise punch dealing some extra damage)
30 Skillpoint spent in unarmed (expert)-Kick (A powerful kick dealing double damage)
40 Skillpoint spent in unarmed (master)-Faster than Lightning (Evasion +20)
50 Skillpoint spent in unarmed(grandmaster) -Three Point Technique (A secret technique only known to Grand Masters)
Also you need to go on adventure and find the trainers apprentice,novice,expert,master ,grandmaster in order to master it at that level
I would just like to remind Folks that the actual hell levels in EQ were ..A BUG. :) I remember it took me two whole months to gain level 60 from level 59. But what an accomplishment once it was done. I don't expect anything handed to me..or anything easy mode. Working for a goal and accomplishing it after time spent ..is part of the challenge I want. I can't wait to see what the Devs have in store for us. From Joppa's description, it sounds like there will be a learning curve. And that's alright by me. :)
Fluffy said:Nice that you mention Legends of Grimrock,Malsirian
it uses a mastery system.
In Grimrock isn't it something along the lines of:Spellcraft
10 Skillpoint spent in spellcraft (apprentice) unlock a magicschool of your choice
20 Skillpoint spent in spellcraft (novice) Combat Caster (25% faster spell casting) ability to cast novice spells + ability to cast all other spells at novice level
30 Skillpoint spent in spellcraft (expert) Improved Combat Caster (50% faster spell casting) ability to cast expert spells + ability to cast all other spells at expert level
40 Skillpoint spent in spellcraft (master) overload and ability to cast master spells + ability to cast all other spells at master level
50 Skillpoint spent in spellcraft (grandmaster) Spell energy costs are reduced by 50% and ability to cast grandmaster spells + ability to cast all other spells at grandmaster level
Yup that's pretty much it. So, not exactly what we'll see in PRF but still the sentiment is the same. =)
CanadinaXegony said:I would just like to remind Folks that the actual hell levels in EQ were ..A BUG. :) I remember it took me two whole months to gain level 60 from level 59. But what an accomplishment once it was done. I don't expect anything handed to me..or anything easy mode. Working for a goal and accomplishing it after time spent ..is part of the challenge I want. I can't wait to see what the Devs have in store for us. From Joppa's description, it sounds like there will be a learning curve. And that's alright by me. :)
Still having a hard time finding that pesky like button.
CanadinaXegony said:I would just like to remind Folks that the actual hell levels in EQ were ..A BUG. :) I remember it took me two whole months to gain level 60 from level 59. But what an accomplishment once it was done. I don't expect anything handed to me..or anything easy mode. Working for a goal and accomplishing it after time spent ..is part of the challenge I want. I can't wait to see what the Devs have in store for us. From Joppa's description, it sounds like there will be a learning curve. And that's alright by me. :)
Yeah it took me a few weeks to get thru level 30.
But in that time I completed a full suit of Armor of Ro, one of the first (perhaps the frist)on my server. The fact that I had this level hurdle in front of me refocused my ambitions from grinding xp to doing other things. Turned out to be one of the most memorable things of of the seven years I spent in EQ.