Forums » The Dire Lord

Feign Death

    • 46 posts
    June 5, 2017 11:12 AM PDT

    I went over this briefly in the Dire Lord Exepctations thread, but hopefully no one is too set on feign death for the dire lord. When the monk was initially shown, its class defining ability was feign death. While the game has some time until release and things may change, personally I think would be odd to have another class's iconic ability (even if it was on a higher cooldown). 

    • 40 posts
    June 21, 2017 4:44 PM PDT

    Garmr said:

    Really want to see this implemented for the DL as it was for the SK. I felt it was one of the class defining features of the class, making us useful as pullers, raid savers etc.

    Thoughts?

    Considering Feign Death is class defining ability of the Monk please no. I don't want another rehash of Everquest leave it only to the Monks. 

    • 101 posts
    June 23, 2017 12:19 PM PDT

    I'm happy to see whatever they have in store for us.  New game, new concepts.

    • 9 posts
    August 23, 2017 11:29 PM PDT

    Honestly, feign death is a fun mechanic - but for Dire Lord's I'd like to see an ability that gives greater justice to their fearless mentality.

    My idea for a *similar* ability is to:

    Ability Name - Doomed Declaration

    1. After channeling for 1-2 sec (which can be interupted if being hit) you force taunt ALL enemies within a large radius and through geography (30-50 meters - or whatever that equates to in-game pixels), for 8-10 sec

    2. 4-5 seconds after activation the Dire Knight falls into a stupor (rooted and can't cast or attack) but is granted invulnerability until the last second of the remaining taunt, where he breaks free from his stupor.

    3. There will be a 2-3 second window after the stupor, where the Dire Lord can choose to begin attacking again or re-cast the ability to instantly Feign Death with a 50-60% success rate.

    4. Ability then has a 10-15min cooldown timer.


    This post was edited by Omega at August 24, 2017 4:05 AM PDT
    • 164 posts
    September 1, 2017 12:12 PM PDT
    I agree that playing dead doesn't really fit the image of a Dire Lord. Perhaps if the animation was changed, with the same effect, itd work. I imagine VR is developing this sort of solution. Maybe a kind of memory wipe, "Destroy Memory," would work. Or maybe the DL could "release his spirit" from his body, shown by some cool, subtle, spectral animation, after which his body would ragdoll limply to the ground.
    • 299 posts
    September 6, 2017 3:38 PM PDT

    I'm surprised that so many people want to see FD play a major role in Pantheon.  I thought we'd all realized by now that FD is the biggest cheese mechanic in Everquest.  The ability to basically not fear death, or flop around to the bottom of a dungeon, or spawn-camp without any fear of agro, is game-breaking in a way that no other single ability is likely to be.  Then throw in all of the absurd content-skipping and solo-pulling that can be accomplished with FD (especially when combined with an SK pet) and the mechanic is hard to justify.  I certainly hope there are major limitations placed on FD in this game, and if anything other than a Monk gets the ability, it should be toned way down or placed on a long cooldown.  Less cheese, please!

    • 31 posts
    October 6, 2017 10:47 AM PDT

    -Gnog.  In regard to your comment of FD being cheese, I actually think FD was a vital part of EQ1 and actually required a level of skill to use it to pull.  I wholeheartedly disagree with this ability being "cheese"... There were MANY skills that could be used to avoid death or being unseen:  Bind/Gate, Stealth/Sneak, Invisibility/IVU, Mez/Charm, Lull/Harmony... and of course FD (which took an incredible amount of actual dying before it became reliable).  And given the content that I've seen so far, being able to split pull with FD is going to be essential if you don't have another form of CC in your group.  With that being said, I can understand the monk fan's desire to keep this a monk's unique skill, but as a former SHD and Necro, I loved the idea of the class's mastery over all things relating to death, to include their own life.


    This post was edited by Darch at October 6, 2017 10:53 AM PDT
    • 275 posts
    October 14, 2017 1:16 PM PDT

    Gnog said:

    I'm surprised that so many people want to see FD play a major role in Pantheon.  I thought we'd all realized by now that FD is the biggest cheese mechanic in Everquest.  The ability to basically not fear death, or flop around to the bottom of a dungeon, or spawn-camp without any fear of agro, is game-breaking in a way that no other single ability is likely to be.  Then throw in all of the absurd content-skipping and solo-pulling that can be accomplished with FD (especially when combined with an SK pet) and the mechanic is hard to justify.  I certainly hope there are major limitations placed on FD in this game, and if anything other than a Monk gets the ability, it should be toned way down or placed on a long cooldown.  Less cheese, please!

    I dont think its cheesy, I think if put in on the right class its just fine.  I dont think it was OP on necros or SKs.... monks however... thats another story.

    Hunters in WoW being able to feign.. didnt make much sense to me

    • 299 posts
    October 14, 2017 5:41 PM PDT

    Darch said:

    -Gnog.  In regard to your comment of FD being cheese, I actually think FD was a vital part of EQ1 and actually required a level of skill to use it to pull.  I wholeheartedly disagree with this ability being "cheese"... There were MANY skills that could be used to avoid death or being unseen:  Bind/Gate, Stealth/Sneak, Invisibility/IVU, Mez/Charm, Lull/Harmony... and of course FD (which took an incredible amount of actual dying before it became reliable).  And given the content that I've seen so far, being able to split pull with FD is going to be essential if you don't have another form of CC in your group.  With that being said, I can understand the monk fan's desire to keep this a monk's unique skill, but as a former SHD and Necro, I loved the idea of the class's mastery over all things relating to death, to include their own life.

    I guess we'll just agree to disagree, pretty strongly.  I would remove FD from the Monk, too.  Or nerf it heavily.  None of the abilities you listed comes anywhere near FD for flopping around a dungeon or exploit pulling, except Rogues in later expansions when they got SoS.  I also can't agree that FD was a "vital part of EQ1."  Using a monk to FD pull was emergent gameplay; there was no zone or encounter that required a Monk.  Anyway, though, using a Monk to single pull doesn't bother me too much, as long as there is a significant chance of failure or a risk of death (various approaches to this have been discussed elsewhere).  The problem is the ability to run around a difficult dungeon without really fearing death because you can just FD.  Sorry, I've played enough EQ1 and other games to conclude that FD mechanics are cheese, so I don't really want to see them on any class, let alone multiple classes.  

    Lucky for you, VR seems to be leaning in your direction. 

     

    • 11 posts
    October 14, 2017 6:49 PM PDT

    Some might have made it look easy, but its actually hard work to FD flop through a mob infested zone and stay alive, it takes knowing the zone/dungeon, how fast the mobs move, the agro range, etc. It's not just 'Flop everywhere you want and woohoo still safe!' It takes skill to move from point A to point B and not to mention if it fails and the pack of agro'd mobs hit for half your HP before you can try to recast you are toast.


    This post was edited by Krakon at October 14, 2017 6:49 PM PDT
    • 275 posts
    October 14, 2017 10:46 PM PDT

    Krakon said:

    Some might have made it look easy, but its actually hard work to FD flop through a mob infested zone and stay alive, it takes knowing the zone/dungeon, how fast the mobs move, the agro range, etc. It's not just 'Flop everywhere you want and woohoo still safe!' It takes skill to move from point A to point B and not to mention if it fails and the pack of agro'd mobs hit for half your HP before you can try to recast you are toast.

    not to mention knowing which mobs cast, what they cast, how long those casts are so you can flop immediately after it hits.  Where you can LoS the casters.  

    Getting hit by a spell while FD flopping can easily mean death.

    I always used to FD flop down into Sebilis and The Deep (tiny wand camp).  Not easy!

    • 11 posts
    October 15, 2017 12:11 PM PDT

    Porygon said:

    Krakon said:

    Some might have made it look easy, but its actually hard work to FD flop through a mob infested zone and stay alive, it takes knowing the zone/dungeon, how fast the mobs move, the agro range, etc. It's not just 'Flop everywhere you want and woohoo still safe!' It takes skill to move from point A to point B and not to mention if it fails and the pack of agro'd mobs hit for half your HP before you can try to recast you are toast.

    not to mention knowing which mobs cast, what they cast, how long those casts are so you can flop immediately after it hits.  Where you can LoS the casters.  

    Getting hit by a spell while FD flopping can easily mean death.

    I always used to FD flop down into Sebilis and The Deep (tiny wand camp).  Not easy!

     

     Definitely, those froglok wizards were the bain of my existence when i tried flopping down to juggs camp as a replacement tank, and same goes for chardok, soooo many casters, was a major pain.

    • 7 posts
    November 11, 2017 5:29 AM PST

    FD is not a win all mechanic in EQ.  It was useful and it did allow monks to get around dungeons somewhat easily.  However, the thing that broke FD was sneak.  Eventually, they patched that around the end of Velious making split pulling far more difficult and frustrating.  None of these skills exist in a vacuum.  It is almost always some other skill in the toolset that makes another exploitable.  I personally think the DK should get FD.  Especially if it is like EQ where it isnt an instant cast like the monk got.  Im pretty sure VR know the dangers present in having items that mimic those of early EQ like Circlet of Shadow.  We wont see items like that thus FD will not be as powerful as some may remember it to be.

    • 6 posts
    November 17, 2017 10:43 AM PST

    I really loved the versatility EQ SKs had for pulling that in some cases made them even superior to Monks by having access to DOT, Snare, Pet, Invis and Invis to undead.

    One one unbelievable occasion I managed to pull Rafiki from his spawn to the entrance of Dragon Necropolis solo by keeping him rooted while feigned, standing and invising, switching to IvU, etc.   I'd love to get another chance to make some incredible pulls.