Forums » The Monk

Weapons

    • 8 posts
    March 10, 2017 5:04 PM PST

    Iksar said:

    Bazgrim said:

    I think Monks should be the only class with actually very little gear appearance progression. Monks should prioritize practicality and have no concern for fashion or showing off their possessions. Minimalism is the key.

    I would be thrilled and probably main monk if they did that. Doesn't even have to be minimal gear appearance progression, but plenty of different wraps, robes, and "Gi". Just less flashy and in your face.

     

    I wouldn't mind this, as long as there is variety. Of course they shouldn't be nearly as flashy as say a bard and their appearance options should be simple (robes, gi, etc). But there is ONE thing I really hope they include as an appearance item - the beaded necklace. With the bigger beads. Kind of like the monk from Diable 3. Now I wonder how many (if any) necklace items will have appearances but I think it would be cool if the monk could get this...maybe a rare piece for late game? Something to represent their mastery?

    • 8 posts
    March 10, 2017 5:13 PM PST

    Bazgrim said:

    Iksar said:

    I much prefer monk weapons only being the fists themselves, enhanced with various fistwraps. Maybe some 1hb or 2hb clubs/batons/staves.

     

    I am not a fan of the modern monk "fist weapon" design present in most current games. I'm so sick of seeing every end game monk weapon be gaudy and/or ungainly. 

     

    This stuff makes me sick:

    WoW

    FFXIV

     

     

    Yuck. Just gross. 

    Agreed. I'm just done with fist weapons and that's a big part of it. They're just completely uninteresting to me. Not to mention I can't imagine actually trying to punch someone with one of those things IRL. I really want to fall in love with the Monk class, but I haven't yet found a game that actually captures what it means to be a monk. Maybe it's because too many people find that style boring and want everything to be flashy like Bruce Lee?

    I think Monks should be the only class with actually very little gear appearance progression. Monks should prioritize practicality and have no concern for fashion or showing off their possessions. Minimalism is the key.

     

    Im ok with fist weapons as long as they are kept looking simple. WoW is well...WoW. They highly exaggerate all of the weapons in the game. And the other games (look at Asian MMOs) do the same thing..exaggerate the hell out of the armor and weapons. Im confident that VR won't implement that kind of design choice. Plus in those games, weapons are required for all classes because they don't have an unarmed combat system implemented. I would definitely prefer wraps over fist weapons, but if they HAVE to have a weapon then I would prefer fist/knuckle weapons. Clubs don't make much sense to me for a monk. Why would they use such a barbaric weapon? Staves are fine, but not ideal IMO. But the main point is that the monk's body is his weapon. And I hope VR carries that theme.

    • 38 posts
    March 10, 2017 7:00 PM PST

    As far as fighting animations go, I don't know if the current engine would support it, but I feel Blizzard did a decent job with the Diablo 3 monk animations by actually not having animations... The attacks were so "fast" they were assumed to be unperceivable to the player.  Diablo 3 Monk Gameplay  

    I didn't care for the look of the monk, but the gameplay was certainly fun dashing from enemy to enemy or executing a flurry of blows that simply appeared to be a blur of fists and kicks; reflecting projectiles back at the attacker or channeling their Ki/chi to radiate area concussive force blast.

    That + the playable races available to Monk would make my choice of classes easy, but I agree that in a class that doesn't really rely on cool armor, giant bladed weapons or massive damage spells, attack animations must be enticing :)

    • 17 posts
    March 11, 2017 11:59 AM PST

    Lokkan said:

    Different fabrics and colors, I love the minimalist approach as well.  Maybe if anything a faint aura for truly high end items, or a trailing ribbon type-effect.  

     

    Bulky and/or heavy items seem the complete opposite of what I'd expect from a monk - I like the idea that I have to respect some kind of weight limit for my monk in order for him to be able to function physically at his max ability.

     

    Would it be possible to give a striking effect to attacks?  Seeing a warrior lumber through and land an average percent of their hits...  Then see a monk come along and you see a rapid succession of blows inflicted.

    I immediately thought of the eq monk and remember my fists trailing the bubbles with my epic weapon and wearing a basic looking robe. Minimialist is what I would prefer with a few very subtle effects for the high end items/epic items. If 2 monks were standing /anon side by side the only way to tell who was the higher level monk should be by a subtle effect coming off a epic piece of gear (assuming same base item looks like both wearing a robe)

    • 13 posts
    April 29, 2017 5:14 PM PDT

    Bazgrim said:

    Iksar said:

    I much prefer monk weapons only being the fists themselves, enhanced with various fistwraps. Maybe some 1hb or 2hb clubs/batons/staves.

     

    I am not a fan of the modern monk "fist weapon" design present in most current games. I'm so sick of seeing every end game monk weapon be gaudy and/or ungainly. 

     

    This stuff makes me sick:

    WoW

    FFXIV

     

     

    Yuck. Just gross. 

    Agreed. I'm just done with fist weapons and that's a big part of it. They're just completely uninteresting to me. Not to mention I can't imagine actually trying to punch someone with one of those things IRL. I really want to fall in love with the Monk class, but I haven't yet found a game that actually captures what it means to be a monk. Maybe it's because too many people find that style boring and want everything to be flashy like Bruce Lee?

    I think Monks should be the only class with actually very little gear appearance progression. Monks should prioritize practicality and have no concern for fashion or showing off their possessions. Minimalism is the key.

    I agree with both of your feelings about the monk class.  I would like to see some benefit to using no weapon at all, personally.  I feel that the utility should be the fullfillment of playing the class, rather than the cosmetic appearances of gear.  I would certainly love cool looking gear, but that has always been an after thought. (I will always make an excpetion for the Rune Etched Bamboo Bo)

    • 18 posts
    April 29, 2017 5:25 PM PDT

    Sebkoril said:

     

    I agree with both of your feelings about the monk class.  I would like to see some benefit to using no weapon at all, personally.  I feel that the utility should be the fullfillment of playing the class, rather than the cosmetic appearances of gear.  I would certainly love cool looking gear, but that has always been an after thought. (I will always make an excpetion for the Rune Etched Bamboo Bo)

    OMG Where did you pull this picture from?  That's got to be nearly 10 years old.

    • 57 posts
    April 30, 2017 6:56 PM PDT

    I prefer to have the option to use weapons as a monk where your fists are not the most powerful weapon available. One of the main reasons for this is that if you don't equip any weapons then you suffer from scaling issues, you don't grow in power as other classes do through gear progression. One of the most powerful gear upgrades for melee dps characters in most mmo's has traditionally been weapon upgrades. Sure in EQ the damage of the monks fists scaled as they leveled and this was fine to me. The problem is once you reach maximum level your character is stuck in power level. Sure maybe there is some kind of epic quest to make your fists do more damage or something of that nature, but that is only a temporary solution, that would have to keep being added onto over time to stay relevant.

    I also like the idea of a variety of different weapon types being available to the player so they can make a change in weapon types if the situation calls for it.

     

    • 13 posts
    April 30, 2017 7:22 PM PDT

    torveld said:

    I prefer to have the option to use weapons as a monk where your fists are not the most powerful weapon available. One of the main reasons for this is that if you don't equip any weapons then you suffer from scaling issues, you don't grow in power as other classes do through gear progression. One of the most powerful gear upgrades for melee dps characters in most mmo's has traditionally been weapon upgrades. Sure in EQ the damage of the monks fists scaled as they leveled and this was fine to me. The problem is once you reach maximum level your character is stuck in power level. Sure maybe there is some kind of epic quest to make your fists do more damage or something of that nature, but that is only a temporary solution, that would have to keep being added onto over time to stay relevant.

    I also like the idea of a variety of different weapon types being available to the player so they can make a change in weapon types if the situation calls for it.

     

    I agree with your setiment, to a point.  I feel there is a cosmetic aspect within an MMORPG, or any fantasy storyline, to a monk not using weapons in combat.  In my opinion fist wraps or 2 handed weapons are probably the best compromises between maintaining a raw cosmetic feeling and allowing for gear scaling.

    The problem with my line of thought is that it is short sighted and would leave monks with the short end of the stick when it comes to loot. 

    • 599 posts
    April 30, 2017 11:06 PM PDT

    torveld said:

    I prefer to have the option to use weapons as a monk where your fists are not the most powerful weapon available. One of the main reasons for this is that if you don't equip any weapons then you suffer from scaling issues, you don't grow in power as other classes do through gear progression. One of the most powerful gear upgrades for melee dps characters in most mmo's has traditionally been weapon upgrades. Sure in EQ the damage of the monks fists scaled as they leveled and this was fine to me. The problem is once you reach maximum level your character is stuck in power level. Sure maybe there is some kind of epic quest to make your fists do more damage or something of that nature, but that is only a temporary solution, that would have to keep being added onto over time to stay relevant.

    I also like the idea of a variety of different weapon types being available to the player so they can make a change in weapon types if the situation calls for it.

     

    Monks are the ultimate "My Body is the Ultimate Weapon" class, and i honestly hope they don't change it if anything I hope they embrace it by giving out maybe Class specific "Fistwraps" quest like they did in EQ but it was headbands instead.  how i can see maybe small waepons like spiked brass knuckles or something that sin't all to noticeable though, i dont want to see a monk weilding a H2H weapon and it looks like a huge blade or blunt weapon in front of there hand though like Diablo 3 did they looked like Warriors, or Rogues depending on what weapon you had.  i know maybe a lot people might not agree to this but they are in my eyes suppose to be a class that depends on there agility and dex to win in a fight and i dont see how that can happen all to well if you got something that looks like you got something in your hands that weigh 10 lbs a piece

    • 4 posts
    September 30, 2017 12:57 PM PDT

    One of the main things that drew me to monks in EQ1 was the fact that they DON'T use weapons.  That was just too cool and hadn't been done.  It still has yet to be repeated.  Many games don't use the unarmed damage because they need items in those slots for the stats anyway, so they just treat them like any other weapon in the game.  

    A way to get the best of both worlds would be to have weapons that inherit their combat damage/delay from the base entity.  So fist wraps could give you the stats for those slots without changing your base damage.  

    • 32 posts
    October 10, 2017 8:34 AM PDT

    I would like to see monks able to use most 1h and 2h weapons outside of swords and daggers. The last thing I want to be is forced  down a certain path. I like the options of using clubs, pole arms, staves, even short spears. I might not be in the popular opinion, I just hate seeing a class forced into a certain weapon and look. 

    • 1213 posts
    October 19, 2017 11:44 AM PDT

    Rolador said:

    One of the main things that drew me to monks in EQ1 was the fact that they DON'T use weapons.  That was just too cool and hadn't been done.  It still has yet to be repeated.  Many games don't use the unarmed damage because they need items in those slots for the stats anyway, so they just treat them like any other weapon in the game.  

    A way to get the best of both worlds would be to have weapons that inherit their combat damage/delay from the base entity.  So fist wraps could give you the stats for those slots without changing your base damage.  

     

    Yeah, I think it would be great if they had scaling damage/delay like EQ BUT to fill the weapon slot issue they could additionally equip various fistwraps that give an added boost on top. 

     

    I mean, it's fine if they can use other weapons but I think they should come at a cost and restrict access to various monk traits/abilities. If you are dual wielding clubs or using a 2h staff it doesn't make sense to be using abilities that are based on hand to hand like Quivering Palm, Stunning Fist, or Hundred Fists. In DnD Monks get the ability to deflect/catch arrows as long as they have a free/empty hand so there are things like that too. 

     

    Having them mostly shoed into using their body/fists as their main weapon doesn't seem to me to be terrible. Rogue for example fall into a similar area with needing daggers/1 hand piercing weapons (at least in the main hand) in order to do any number of their skills, most noteably backstab. 

    • 123 posts
    October 26, 2017 9:47 PM PDT

    Iksar said:

    As for needing different weapon types, perhaps monks would just assume different stances to do different kinds of strikes. Mantis Stance making your attacks do piecing damage, Tiger Stance for slashing damage, etc.

     

    Kind of in the same light that their fists become "magic" at some point when it comes to hitting "magic"/ethereal creatures. 

     

    I like this but not neccessarily for different damage types. I think the type of damage you do should be determined by your weapon (claws would be slashing, knuckles blunt, those wrist sword things for piercing?)

    But how about your stance depicting what fighting style your in, say one stance leaves you more ready to counter and avoid, while one stance increases fighting speed but you do less criticals and expend more energy since your fighting more frantically, and another stance allows you to regain stamina while dealing consistant damage. Just throwing ideas out

    • 325 posts
    October 29, 2017 11:02 PM PDT

    I'll have to throw my lot behind the unique class weapons group. If you want to use something that isnt fists, feet, or staff, you may feel more at home with another class, who has actually trained to use whatever it is you want to equip. 

    • 296 posts
    October 31, 2017 6:32 PM PDT

    I lean toward Monks using their fists and feet as their primary weapons with modifiers from fist wraps/footwear and maybe another mechanic like Runes.  I'm not against knuckles, etc.  But I think they should be situational.  The monk himself/herself IS the weapon and that's how it should be in the majority of instances.  But a 2-hand staff for tanking or "AoE" fighting or Cesti for piercing damage when called for shouldn't be off the table, but there should be a trade-off.  A monk's base main source of max dps should be his own body and skills.

    • 189 posts
    November 2, 2017 9:03 AM PDT

    Agreed DragonFist, I've always looked at monks as fist/feet only for attacking. But as you said, that shouldn't remove other weapons from being used. BUT, I think using no weapons should do more damage than using two clubs, for instance. 

    • 7 posts
    November 2, 2017 10:23 AM PDT
    this is a quick rough draft, but why not have a 'system' that is scaleable like traditional wpns or gear. call it a school, fighting style, stances, training..etc. let it be upgradeable based on rarer loot/crafts. and have it directly adjust unarmed combat dmg to scale upwards as we find 'knowledge' instead of gear. even if each portion only upgraded 1 part of armor, dmg output, or skill boost.

    basically we dont adventure for flashy bulky wpns and armor, we search for lost knowledge and a way to improve ourselves...and thru that our dps or utility.

    Alyia
    • 32 posts
    November 2, 2017 11:40 AM PDT
    I'm confused by the desire to have fist be your only choice. Don't get me wrong I think fist should be one of the primary options. Eq had fist and fistwraps as a choice for you best damage. But you also had choices of clubs, mace, bo staves and 2h staves/polearm. I definitely want fist to be a option and a good option, I just don't want to be 5 years down the road and every endgame monk just rolling with fist wraps. I'm no knocking anyone for wanting that, I personally would just like some options.....as long as it makes sense. I don't want to be a diablo monk and having longswords and claymore ect.....having limited options reminds me too much of other mmo with their cookie cutter look and everyone that plays that class looks the same with the same weapon. I'm not looking for glamour here, just gear options.
    • 29 posts
    November 2, 2017 12:27 PM PDT

    Deer Horns should be 2nd weapon set after fists for the Monk  These weapons are awesome and are traditional Monk weapons.  monks can clinb wall with them. The animations would be awesome as well.

     

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMEWXHML7_0

     

    One Bagua deer horn form.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySTyezIegOs


    This post was edited by Caine at November 2, 2017 12:35 PM PDT
    • 17 posts
    November 2, 2017 4:02 PM PDT

    Holywind said:

    Agreed DragonFist, I've always looked at monks as fist/feet only for attacking. But as you said, that shouldn't remove other weapons from being used. BUT, I think using no weapons should do more damage than using two clubs, for instance. 

     

    i think using your bare hands/feet should offer the quickest attacks but maybe not the most damage. fistwraps could increase the damage somewhat but equipping a 2h staff or 2 1hb's should offer more damage then bare hands but your attack delay is going to suffer. Its the trade off between a lot of smaller attacks or 1 big strike every now and then

    • 189 posts
    November 2, 2017 4:25 PM PDT

    Oh, for sure more dmg with handwraps and maybe ancient knowledge or some other type quest. 

    • 296 posts
    November 3, 2017 11:58 AM PDT

    Sure, weapons could and probably should give more dmg per hit.  But a Monk's overall DPS should be tuned to have his hand and feet, modified by fist wraps/footwear and self buffs, and things like runes/tattoos be the most desired for pure, general DPS.  Sure, for tanking or specified fights where mobs are resistent to blunt/strike damage, other options might be better.  Hell, just in leveling, one might luck out and get some weapon that is just so good for one's level that for a while it might out-weight fist/feet, but all things being equal, that should be relatively short lived.  The point is to favor a monk being a monk and not light-armor warrior.

    Again, though, I'm all for situational trade offs and, certainly, high damage per hit, high swing time is one of those.

    • 1213 posts
    November 3, 2017 1:23 PM PDT

    DragonFist said:

    Sure, weapons could and probably should give more dmg per hit.  But a Monk's overall DPS should be tuned to have his hand and feet, modified by fist wraps/footwear and self buffs, and things like runes/tattoos be the most desired for pure, general DPS.  Sure, for tanking or specified fights where mobs are resistent to blunt/strike damage, other options might be better.  Hell, just in leveling, one might luck out and get some weapon that is just so good for one's level that for a while it might out-weight fist/feet, but all things being equal, that should be relatively short lived.  The point is to favor a monk being a monk and not light-armor warrior.

    Again, though, I'm all for situational trade offs and, certainly, high damage per hit, high swing time is one of those.

     

    Pretty much. I think it's fine to have one class that (for the most part) sticks to a specific weapon type/theme, in this case monk using their body & mind as their focus of mastery & chosen weapon. "Through longstanding discipline and unwavering obedience to ancient teachings, the Monk wields their mind and body as a devastating, holistic weapon against their enemies."

     

    Rogue are half-way there with needing a dagger primary weapon for most iconic abilities but mostly free choice of offhand. Ranger may end up being a dual wielding melee fighter with some ranged, or perhaps warriors will be using all kinds of weaponry, or maybe they leave it somewhat open so down the line they could have a dual wielding berserker class. 

    • 10 posts
    November 23, 2017 7:27 AM PST

    I am going to /necro this to continue the conversation since the monk streams went up;

    What borrowing a page from vanguard and expanding on it?

    In VG Weapons generally served a specific purpose. (e.g. sword for defense, 2hs/p all out dps, fists or 1hb/s for balanced attack defense )  Various schools can enhance those benefits / penalties, and grant skills. I would consider these like aura type abilities Tiger, Crane, Dragon, etc etc etc... This promotes travel to all of the lands, questing to learn the styles, and creates interesting configurations.

    Just throwing my 2cp out there.

    #MonkLife

    ~QTM