I read outposts as working a lot like camps did in SWG. You set up some visual markers that maybe give some bonuses to regen rates, etc. Snazzier outposts might come with crafting stations or a banker. This let's your guild do preparations in the field, so to speak, before heading into that raid or dungeon. In the absence of fast travel it makes sense.
@1ad7, take a look at my big long post above about marker stones and players having to invest in/grow/defend their housing areas. Would that not help alleviate the concern about having rows if houses with no life? Especially if community services such as merchants, bankers, and so on depended on the system?
CanadinaXegony said:Nephele said:So, I am moderately anti instancing. I want housing out in the world because I want to see player towns and cities. That said, I don't want super sprawl like what happened in UO and SWG. Vanguard had the right idea by having only certain areas with buildable plots. And I support instanced apartments as a first step into housing. Those full buildable plots should be something you aspire to and work towards, not something you get early on.
As far as VR's plans, I like that they acknowledge that it needs to be done right. I am ok with waiting for an expansion (we waited for space flight in swg after all). But I don't know that I like the idea of temporary outposts or camps as the end-all housing solution. Practical? Sure. But it doesn't really bit the buttons that permanent player housing does. It's more of a convenience tool and less of a character goal, at least as it is described in the FAQ.
We will have to see what comes :)
Yes if relegated to a housing section, where players can't dump their homes all over the scenery..I'd agree with that. But there is also Iksar's post above where VR doesn't seem to want to do open world or instanced housing, but just outposts (mainly for guilds?) If so, disappointing for those of us who DO enjoy housing. Okay found where this was stated as per Iksar's post...in the FAQ.
Cana
The quote is from 6.4 in the FAQ.
I think it would be cool if there were pre-determined lots spread all around Terminus that players could use, but only temporarily. Some could be rented from NPC's for a fee. Some might require players to clear out an area, and then keep that area safe. Maybe there is some sort of cost every time you put up an outpost ... something significant so their placement is meaningful. Additionally, NPC's could take over your outpost if it isn't guarded or maintained. I really liked the "long term progression" that was afforded from EQ2 housing, and maybe something like that could still be achieved in an open-world game. Maybe the most common temporary "plot" available would only be big enough for a horse and carriage. After that, maybe there are plots big enough for a tent, and then a cabin. The bigger the space, the more rare they should be.
When I reflect back on the making of a city video, maybe some of those stalls could be populated by players? It's possible there could even be a bidding process ... the NPC's in the area rent out booths for 3-5 days or whatever, and give them to the highest bidder. For larger plots, maybe there is a remote village somewhere in a dangerous area ... if you have enough faction with them, they will let you build a temporary outpost at one of the few pre-determined spaces available in the area. I like the idea of real estate having value ... and it should fluctuate, just like it does in real life, based on supply/demand and other factors. Something like this would be hard to implement unless the world is being designed with this in mind from the get-go ... maybe it is?
Nephele said:I read outposts as working a lot like camps did in SWG. You set up some visual markers that maybe give some bonuses to regen rates, etc. Snazzier outposts might come with crafting stations or a banker. This let's your guild do preparations in the field, so to speak, before heading into that raid or dungeon. In the absence of fast travel it makes sense.
@1ad7, take a look at my big long post above about marker stones and players having to invest in/grow/defend their housing areas. Would that not help alleviate the concern about having rows if houses with no life? Especially if community services such as merchants, bankers, and so on depended on the system?
Breath of Fire 2 had something called Township that I always thought was really awesome. You could make your own little town, and fill it with different NPC's from around the world. There were different home "styles" that could be built, depending on what builder you had in your village. One built traditional homes, another built treehouses, and the other built a more luxurious style. Other NPC's might set up a weapon shop, or a bank. Your population was limited so you could never have all NPC's at once ... but there was even a "bum" that literally contributed nothing. He would take up a house and offer no value to your town. I think something like that would be awesome in an MMO ... when you "save the farmer" maybe he comes back to your town and actually starts farming rather than just giving you some copper. If you save the imprisoned guy at the bottom of a dungeon, maybe he comes back to your town and can offer a unique quest when there is a full moon outside.
It would be a nice way to engage with the different NPC's in the world, and could make it so each "town" was a little bit different. Maybe ... there are X amount of these NPC's available throughout the entire world, and they are all unique? You could still have multiple bankers ... but the requirements to bring them back to your town could be different. Due to population cap, you might have to evict someone from your town which would put them back in the world and open up the opportunity for another player to bring them to their town. I think it would be pretty damn awesome if NPC's had this kind of value ... and rather than just player "housing" it could be a custom player town, and they would all be different.
I am thinking in terms of crafting. Vanguard had crafting centralized in their cities, which caused massive lag, and you couldn't always get the crafting station you needed. Remembering that crafting is competitive. If its going to be a pain in the @ss to even get a station, then only those that park themselves there 24/7 will be able to craft. ie: botters.
Jazznblues said:CanadinaXegony said:Nephele said:So, I am moderately anti instancing. I want housing out in the world because I want to see player towns and cities. That said, I don't want super sprawl like what happened in UO and SWG. Vanguard had the right idea by having only certain areas with buildable plots. And I support instanced apartments as a first step into housing. Those full buildable plots should be something you aspire to and work towards, not something you get early on.
As far as VR's plans, I like that they acknowledge that it needs to be done right. I am ok with waiting for an expansion (we waited for space flight in swg after all). But I don't know that I like the idea of temporary outposts or camps as the end-all housing solution. Practical? Sure. But it doesn't really bit the buttons that permanent player housing does. It's more of a convenience tool and less of a character goal, at least as it is described in the FAQ.
We will have to see what comes :)
Yes if relegated to a housing section, where players can't dump their homes all over the scenery..I'd agree with that. But there is also Iksar's post above where VR doesn't seem to want to do open world or instanced housing, but just outposts (mainly for guilds?) If so, disappointing for those of us who DO enjoy housing. Okay found where this was stated as per Iksar's post...in the FAQ.
Cana
The quote is from 6.4 in the FAQ.
As I stated in my post. :P
Iksar said:As it stands, I'd guess personal housing is not the direction they are thinking when it comes to housing/player buildings. The current/updated FAQ:
"Housing isn’t currently a planned release feature. Doing housing properly is a big deal. We don’t want instanced housing or open world housing where urban sprawl takes up half the world and people can’t find a place to make their home. Post launch, we are looking at some ideas that affect gameplay such as Outposts that guilds could set up in areas appropriate to their level, and other players could visit their outpost. When they are done, kind of like the Wild West, you can pick up your wagon of stuff and move your Outpost. Again, this idea would be a post-launch feature."
This sounds like a genuenly bad idea. 1) Doesn't (from the way it sounds) really give anyone other than large wealthy guilds anything. 2) Great way for large wealth guilds to ensure they base camp their outpost near raid spawns. Also, as I've said before it doesn't give anyone a sense of belonging. I know some people don't "get that" but it's a big part of what draws me into games.
I like where Nephele's head is. Maybe making a few "outposts" housing dedicated areas where you can puchase 6 or 7 lots are available. VR designs these lot placements and also gives you a template of a few different type of houses that can be placed there. 3 story delux manor 1000 plat, 1 room shanty 10 plat. Having VR design the layout of lot placements and controlling what style of houses can be placed there give people a goal for finding a house lot, but keeps it from turning into the house nightmare that was UO and SWG. These housing outposts could be scattered all over the world. You might run across a 4 plot outpost waaaaay out in the middle of no where. But ya know what, someone would make that their home and would love it.
Some of these outposts could have garden plots, or workshop plots on them. If it's a 4 plot outpost, maybe there is an extra plot that the 4 owners of that outpost have to agree upon and build. ie gathering wood, stone, ore and builing it. A 7 plot outpost could have 2 unassigned plots available to them, that can be built (i.e herb garden for potions, blacksmith forge and anvil). All this template designs by VR so theme and look and feel of the game stay in tact.
Kittik said:This sounds like a genuenly bad idea. 1) Doesn't (from the way it sounds) really give anyone other than large wealthy guilds anything. 2) Great way for large wealth guilds to ensure they base camp their outpost near raid spawns. Also, as I've said before it doesn't give anyone a sense of belonging. I know some people don't "get that" but it's a big part of what draws me into games.
I like where Nephele's head is. Maybe making a few "outposts" housing dedicated areas where you can puchase 6 or 7 lots are available. VR designs these lot placements and also gives you a template of a few different type of houses that can be placed there. 3 story delux manor 1000 plat, 1 room shanty 10 plat. Having VR design the layout of lot placements and controlling what style of houses can be placed there give people a goal for finding a house lot, but keeps it from turning into the house nightmare that was UO and SWG. These housing outposts could be scattered all over the world. You might run across a 4 plot outpost waaaaay out in the middle of no where. But ya know what, someone would make that their home and would love it.
Some of these outposts could have garden plots, or workshop plots on them. If it's a 4 plot outpost, maybe there is an extra plot that the 4 owners of that outpost have to agree upon and build. ie gathering wood, stone, ore and builing it. A 7 plot outpost could have 2 unassigned plots available to them, that can be built (i.e herb garden for potions, blacksmith forge and anvil). All this template designs by VR so theme and look and feel of the game stay in tact.
The general idea is that they want player buildings/housing to be impactful and have game mechanics associated with them. Outside of outposts of some kind or big guild/group efforts I just don't see that being feasible. Yes it doesn't necessarily give anyone other than large/wealthy guilds anything but with any kind of open world player housing the problem quickly becomes similar. A limited amount of space for real estate means the majority of players end up entirely out of luck (good luck if you join a server that has been around for more than a few months) unless they want to spend colossal sums to land barons. FFXIV has somewhere around 2500 houses per server and even then they have huge issues with lack of housing for players on most servers, and I can't imagine Pantheon ever breaking more than a few hundred with an open world design.
The 1 and only 1 area I would allow instancing is housing.
There should be a set amount of perpetual in-game house plots spread around the world.
However, for players that want a house but cannot afford a plot, they could use instanced "appartment" type homes in each major city. Or even allow players to build (and pay upkeep) on appartments that allow say 8 instanced rooms to rent to players. Larger buildings have more instanced appartments but cost more to operate.
bigdogchris said:The 1 and only 1 area I would allow instancing is housing.
There should be a set amount of perpetual in-game house plots spread around the world.
However, for players that want a house but cannot afford a plot, they could use instanced "appartment" type homes in each major city. Or even allow players to build (and pay upkeep) on appartments that allow say 8 instanced rooms to rent to players. Larger buildings have more instanced appartments but cost more to operate.
I agree. Having larger fancier houses right outside of town, or even maybe some in town that can be purchased for people to use, show off, show case it a great idea. Make a royal manor just outside of towns that people run past and think to themselves "some day". But instanced housing just works. I, honestly, so no issues with instanced housing.
Iksar said:The general idea is that they want player buildings/housing to be impactful and have game mechanics associated with them. Outside of outposts of some kind or big guild/group efforts I just don't see that being feasible. Yes it doesn't necessarily give anyone other than large/wealthy guilds anything but with any kind of open world player housing the problem quickly becomes similar. A limited amount of space for real estate means the majority of players end up entirely out of luck (good luck if you join a server that has been around for more than a few months) unless they want to spend colossal sums to land barons. FFXIV has somewhere around 2500 houses per server and even then they have huge issues with lack of housing for players on most servers, and I can't imagine Pantheon ever breaking more than a few hundred with an open world design.
I agree, it is a silly thing to try to do and I honestly hope VR doesn't go with presistant housing. Instanced housing is a fine, if not, great option. Even using an idea like what I mentioned earlier could work. Giving people more options is not a bad thing.
Guildhalls, houses, apartments dont' need to take away from what people need to do in a city. In EQ2, the biggest reason I saw people running around was to use the broker, or when chronomancer where introduced those where used a lot. Unfortunatly, those where soon offered for people to use in their guildhalls. So towns became ghost towns.
VR doesn't have to do that. Nothing used or offered in the house should be something that needs to be offered in towns. Training, brokers, banking etc. What can be offered from your house or guildhall could be buffs that (very very slightly) help you. Guildhalls can post those standards in their hall and it gives people a 2% out of combat movement speed or other items. Towns dont offer that, yet it in no way takes away from people needing to go to town.
1% damage increase standard.
2% out of combat movement buff.
+10 to resists standards.
Your guildhall could have multipule different standards, yet you can only activly use 1 at a time...
Things like this that dont' break the game, but would also be an incentive to be in a guild and help your guild towards those goals. But also somehting that wont pull people out of being in town.
I would like instanced housing much like EQ2 (where you click on the door of a structure) simply for space reasons, but I'd like guild halls to NOT be instanced because nothing is more fun than public guild meetings! I will gatecrash all the meetings! And I will also check out all the houses! Pantheon Homeshow GO GO GO!!
Like I said up above, I am moderately anti-instancing. I also totally get Iksar's point about world size vs. available housing, although I think there are ways around that (Vanguard's original plan to have outlying islands with housing areas would have handled the demand in that game fairly well, I think).
Here is what I would do as a compromise system if I could have my way (please note, I think it could work this way because we are talking about housing as an expansion-level feature, and not something that has to be in the game at launch).
At launch: SWG-style "camps", or "outposts" - essentially, temporary structures that guilds can erect (for a cost) to provide very basic services for players in the area. Useful for setting up crafting stations in the middle of nowhere, giving people a place to rest/recover, or even potentially set up temporary things like bankers, and so on. At any given time, maybe only one outpost may be active within a zone - when it expires, someone else could put up another one in the zone.
Stage 1 - Enabled post-launch: Low-cost: Instanced, individual "apartments" or houses in NPC cities. Vanilla-EQ2 style.
Stage 2 - Enabled post-launch: Medium-cost: Buildable (vanguard style) housing and guild hall plots in designated wilderness areas away from NPC cities (Freeholds, as I originally described in my post(s) above). These would be limited with only maybe 2 or 3 areas maximum per overland zone. Once they're all taken, they're all taken. These would be smaller so as not to detract too much from the NPC cities. Operating a Freehold would be a mark of prestige for a guild, but it would also be *far* more expensive and difficult to set up than just using the instanced housing, so this is late-game stuff.
Stage 3 - Enabled via full expansion: High-cost: Buildable (vanguard style) housing plots in designated areas on a completely new continent or landmass (Freeholds v2 - true player cities). These would be larger than v1 Freeholds, supporting more housing plots and guild halls. There could also be many more of them, specifically because they wouldn't be taking the place of NPC cities - which means that the first players to set up freeholds in the new lands would be *building* the trading/service hubs used by everyone who comes after. The costs would be much higher than v1 Freeholds in the old world, but the ability for guilds and players to literally settle new lands would be a big draw. (This could also be a really good money sink for the game at a point where inflation woulld start to become a factor).
Some assumptions I'm making:
- While getting a basic inn room might be relatively cheap, getting the land for a non-instanced housing plot should be *expensive* - and that's before you build the house. Not just in terms of cash, but in terms of what you have to do to get the deed to the land. (For example, Vanguard's guild halls required guilds to spend quite some time collecting diplomacy items just to get the deed to allow them to buy the plot - which *also* cost a very large amount of money. And then you had to build the thing.)
- The game will be harsh enough through various systems that players won't be able to operate independently in the wilderness forever. They'll need to return to "civilization" in order to recover, to train, to replenish supplies, and so on - and they'll need to do this more frequently than once every few RL days. This means that things like outposts and freeholds would have immense value for the services they provide.
- Players who stop logging in or otherwise can't maintain their house (instanced or non-instanced) will lose it after a reasonable period of time. Maybe their stuff goes to an escrow merchant or something so they can get it back. This ensures that there's always a chance for people who come in late to be able to get a housing plot (if they have the means).
- Non-instanced housing plots will be restricted so that players can't play tricks to own multiple of them and be land barons, as much as possible. Like, one per account, or something.
Hesitant to say much because all of this is post-launch, regardless of the details.
The general idea on how to make housing work in a non-instanced world is this: the location of the house/outpost/player owned structure is not fixed. It's more like covered wagons moving west back in the old days in RL. A group of people (likely a guild, but don't automatically assume huge uber-guilds only) moves into a level appropriate area with the intent of staying there a while, learning the zones both outdoors and the dungeons in the region. In certain areas, if not already occupied, the group/guild can lay down an Outpost (I'll just use that term for now). The Outpost would offer the group a place to camp out, to meet up at, etc. Items could be stored in some building types. NPC Vendors could be placed. NPC Guards could be hired to watch the structures as they have 'hitpoints' and will be attacked by wandering mobs... the closer to a dangerous area you choose to place your Outpost the greater the chance it will be attacked often. Buildings can be destroyed and it would be costly to fix them. Keeping an Outpost up and in-game would require upkeep costs. Other players can access and benefit from using certain structures -- there would be both public and private building types. The owners would actually need other players in order to have a functional and beneficial Outpost -- this makes sure more casual gamers, or perhaps hard core players but those not affiliated with their own Outpost, benefit as well. Interdependence, as usual, is key to these ideas just as it is behind most things Pantheon.
When you out level the area you pack up your Outpost and make the trek to the next region, place and build up your Outpost yet again. Some aspects of the Outpost must be restarted or rebuilt each time, while others will save. For example, a residence could be decorated just like in the instanced housing you've seen in many MMOs.
One of the very key components is, of course, that it doesn't stay in one place and can only be built in areas designated and that make sense. This way the Outposts you come across will not always be there, we wouldn't need to allocate large regions ala Vanguard that just get filled with housing. Additionally, while you can decorate and have people over for a beer just like you can with instanced housing, the Outpost also serves a purpose from a gameplay standpoint, again for both the owners and for visitors. What benefits? We've not dug that deep yet, we certainly have a lot of ideas but it's far too early to start listing them -- that said, would love to hear your ideas.
So transient, not static. Serves cosmetic/customization desires as well as helps both you and visitors from a gameplay standpoint. When you out level the region and move, it then opens up the opportunity for another group/guild to move into that area. Zones are already huge and with Outposts not having a fixed location there should be opportunity for many to build them. And for those who can't or won't, you're still needed. As stated, upkeeps and perhaps having to rebuild or fix structures creates a great item and money sink. Will there be some competition between groups/guilds when an area frees up? Probably, but with the size of the world we hope that the competition is not egregious. Pantheon is already being designed such that there is some competition, not too much nor too little, in terms of getting to a boss mob, camping, etc. Outposts are similar in that way.
Do Outposts completely replace the notion of a home or guild house in an instance? Yes. In the shared world? Likely yes -- housing with fixed locations have been problematic and the idea of having to pack them up and move them is pretty key. Ships would likely work similarly in some ways -- must be built, have upkeeps, can be damaged or sunk, allow for travel over large bodies of water, disappear when you dock (probably), can hold items just like your bank or your Outpost.
Ok, that's as far as I'm going to go -- again, nothing here set in stone and absolutely post-launch. I know it's fun to talk about the Grand Vision (plans for the game post-launch, expansions, etc.), but obviously these systems aren't getting a lot of thought and planning behind them right now as that would make no sense.
Aradune said:Hesitant to say much because all of this is post-launch, regardless of the details.
Fair enough, thanks for the post though.
Aradune said:When you out level the area you pack up your Outpost and make the trek to the next region, place and build up your Outpost yet again. Some aspects of the Outpost must be restarted or rebuilt each time, while others will save. For example, a residence could be decorated just like in the instanced housing you've seen in many MMOs.
One of the very key components is, of course, that it doesn't stay in one place and can only be built in areas designated and that make sense. This way the Outposts you come across will not always be there, we wouldn't need to allocate large regions ala Vanguard that just get filled with housing.
Could I possibly create an "outpost" in one of your slightly lower level zones that have been designated as outpostable and then just leave it forever? (Because I don't want to move it with me, I want a permenate home.) Also, when you say "others will save" you mean, the interior design will save, so when the "new" outpost is built, people don't have to redecorate. And, I'm assuming only one person has ownership of an outpost lot, so even though many people made it their "home" they are just out of luck when the owner wants to move?
Here are some ideas for potential outpost benefits:
1) High Quality Meals -- Maybe there are high quality meals that can only be made when you have a campfire. Unlike your traditional food/drink that are instantly consumed, these improved meals could provide added buffs to the entire group, and the duration could vary depending on the quality of ingredients and/or campsite. They should take time to make, and time to consume. This could be a meaningful form of downtime where players discuss anything from their plans for the day, to the weather.
2) Weather -- Speaking of weather ... if it's raining outside, a traditional campfire might not work. As weather becomes more volatile/dangerous, higher quality outposts can provide improved shelter from the elements. You wouldn't be able to cook/consume a high quality meal outside in a blizzard, or in the middle of a dust storm. Maybe acclimation could somehow be tied into upgrading/maintaining outposts? Maybe outposts could serve as a "pit-stop" of sorts that allow players to recharge? I think of Mount Everest as an example.
3) Trading -- Maybe players can utilize NPC merchants to sell their wares, similar to how an AH in the city works. This could expand upon the idea of localized trade and the entailed supply/demand of a given area. Having a qualified and trustworthy merchant should come at a price, though. Maybe some NPC's will offer to do this for you as a way to repay their debt/gratitude. Maybe a faction requirement could exist, and the range of where NPC's could offer this service is limited. If you want to utilize an NPC vendor in a cold region, you should have a relationship with the denizens of that area.
4) Landmarks -- Without in-game maps, maybe outposts could serve as an important landmark or gathering point. I like the idea of needing to maintain them. Whether it's guarding them from NPC's or reinforcing them to hold up to nasty weather, there should be some cost to managing their upkeep. I would hope that these outposts couldn't be trained, though. Or if they can, I hope we can hire powerful enough guards to be able to handle a train. I am all for competition ... but if these gathering points are contested, I can definitely see people looking for ways to ransack them.
5) Caravan -- I'm not sure how the caravan system will work, exactly, but maybe outposts could be tied in somehow? For example ... if a player logs out, but is connected to their groups caravan, maybe it only lasts up until the point where they set up their outpost. When they log back in, rather than popping up inside of a dungeon with their group, they appear at the group's most recent outpost.
6) Vendors -- Rather than just facilitating player to player trade, maybe an outpost can be manned by an NPC vendor that can help with repairing gear or buying our merchant fodder.
7) Storage -- Actual mules! Unlike regional banks, you would be able to bring these along with you. Space should obviously be limited, but maybe it's something we can upgrade. In a massive world, having things like this could be a huge difference maker in how efficiently people can spend their time. If someone wants to spend an entire weekend in a desolate corner of the world, having some "self sustain" could go a long way toward making that happen.
Kittik said:Aradune said:Hesitant to say much because all of this is post-launch, regardless of the details.
Fair enough, thanks for the post though.
Aradune said:When you out level the area you pack up your Outpost and make the trek to the next region, place and build up your Outpost yet again. Some aspects of the Outpost must be restarted or rebuilt each time, while others will save. For example, a residence could be decorated just like in the instanced housing you've seen in many MMOs.
One of the very key components is, of course, that it doesn't stay in one place and can only be built in areas designated and that make sense. This way the Outposts you come across will not always be there, we wouldn't need to allocate large regions ala Vanguard that just get filled with housing.
Could I possibly create an "outpost" in one of your slightly lower level zones that have been designated as outpostable and then just leave it forever? (Because I don't want to move it with me, I want a permenate home.) Also, when you say "others will save" you mean, the interior design will save, so when the "new" outpost is built, people don't have to redecorate. And, I'm assuming only one person has ownership of an outpost lot, so even though many people made it their "home" they are just out of luck when the owner wants to move?
I think this is what would happen in practice. While some guilds would move their outposts around, if the things were useful enough, many outposts would become semi-permanent. For example, a guild like mine, that's less focused on progression raiding and more focused on community events, would use an outpost in this way. We'd set it up specifically to become a gathering point for other players, and then run events out of it periodically.
Brad's post reminds me of the "campfire" post on the old Sigil forums. Players would determine where the camps are at based on the population at a location (the guild). When players want to move to another spot they pack up and leave and the campfire dies down.
I would be open to something like this. My only concern would be that you don't want to take away from reasons for players to return to their starting/racial city. That was a big problem in EQ where old cities/zones became empty becuase everything you needed was in the new locations.
bigdogchris said:I would be open to something like this. My only concern would be that you don't want to take away from reasons for players to return to their starting/racial city. That was a big problem in EQ where old cities/zones became empty becuase everything you needed was in the new locations.
One of the reasons I'm extreamly skeptical of this idea. I still genuinely feel, that in city, or just outside of city, instanced apartment/Inn room and housing are the best option. Giving players a way to stay out of the city and you're esentially creating ghost towns.
As some others pointed out. I would love to see Guild NPC Vendors that can act like Auction Houses as well.
Meaning as a Guild I'd love to be able to place items up for purchase to those traveling by our outpost "or stale in the city market", and also to add onto this thought I'd like to be able to purchase items needed for the guild as well through this vendor. IE - I need 20 shrooms for potions for a raid. I place a purchase order with the Vendor and anyone who passed can see that I'm willing to buy 20 shrooms for X amount of gold.
On top of this being able to have a Guild Only version of this vendor would be amazing IMO. There are items that I would only like to sell to the guild members and such...
I won't go into my thoughts on Guild Currency just yet, but there is a lot more to this thought overall that I believe could be done. The biggest piece is having the ability to have a Guild NPC Vendor with the abilities of an auctioneer as seen above.
Nephele said:Kittik said:Aradune said:Hesitant to say much because all of this is post-launch, regardless of the details.
Fair enough, thanks for the post though.
Aradune said:When you out level the area you pack up your Outpost and make the trek to the next region, place and build up your Outpost yet again. Some aspects of the Outpost must be restarted or rebuilt each time, while others will save. For example, a residence could be decorated just like in the instanced housing you've seen in many MMOs.
One of the very key components is, of course, that it doesn't stay in one place and can only be built in areas designated and that make sense. This way the Outposts you come across will not always be there, we wouldn't need to allocate large regions ala Vanguard that just get filled with housing.
Could I possibly create an "outpost" in one of your slightly lower level zones that have been designated as outpostable and then just leave it forever? (Because I don't want to move it with me, I want a permenate home.) Also, when you say "others will save" you mean, the interior design will save, so when the "new" outpost is built, people don't have to redecorate. And, I'm assuming only one person has ownership of an outpost lot, so even though many people made it their "home" they are just out of luck when the owner wants to move?
I think this is what would happen in practice. While some guilds would move their outposts around, if the things were useful enough, many outposts would become semi-permanent. For example, a guild like mine, that's less focused on progression raiding and more focused on community events, would use an outpost in this way. We'd set it up specifically to become a gathering point for other players, and then run events out of it periodically.
Maybe a way to solve this is that the outpost location will become dependent on the average amount of time its members stay in the same zone as where the outpost is located? So in order for a progression raiding guild to maintain its outpost it would be "forced" to move it around to where they are actively hunting, but community / crafting oriented guilds would not as long as they are conducting their business from the zone where their outpost is? dunno, just food for thought
Saicred said:As some others pointed out. I would love to see Guild NPC Vendors that can act like Auction Houses as well.
Meaning as a Guild I'd love to be able to place items up for purchase to those traveling by our outpost "or stale in the city market", and also to add onto this thought I'd like to be able to purchase items needed for the guild as well through this vendor. IE - I need 20 shrooms for potions for a raid. I place a purchase order with the Vendor and anyone who passed can see that I'm willing to buy 20 shrooms for X amount of gold.
On top of this being able to have a Guild Only version of this vendor would be amazing IMO. There are items that I would only like to sell to the guild members and such...
I won't go into my thoughts on Guild Currency just yet, but there is a lot more to this thought overall that I believe could be done. The biggest piece is having the ability to have a Guild NPC Vendor with the abilities of an auctioneer as seen above.
Nope! This is was the biggest community killer I witnessed in EQ2. Everyone used to gater at Qeynos Harbor and as soon as brokers were available to be purchased and put in your guild hall, town instantly turned to ghosts town.
Kittik said:Saicred said:As some others pointed out. I would love to see Guild NPC Vendors that can act like Auction Houses as well.
Meaning as a Guild I'd love to be able to place items up for purchase to those traveling by our outpost "or stale in the city market", and also to add onto this thought I'd like to be able to purchase items needed for the guild as well through this vendor. IE - I need 20 shrooms for potions for a raid. I place a purchase order with the Vendor and anyone who passed can see that I'm willing to buy 20 shrooms for X amount of gold.
On top of this being able to have a Guild Only version of this vendor would be amazing IMO. There are items that I would only like to sell to the guild members and such...
I won't go into my thoughts on Guild Currency just yet, but there is a lot more to this thought overall that I believe could be done. The biggest piece is having the ability to have a Guild NPC Vendor with the abilities of an auctioneer as seen above.
Nope! This is was the biggest community killer I witnessed in EQ2. Everyone used to gater at Qeynos Harbor and as soon as brokers were available to be purchased and put in your guild hall, town instantly turned to ghosts town.
I don't think Saicred's getting at the same thing, exactly. He was suggesting an NPC where he could place "buy orders" - so for example, if he's a leatherworker, and wants to buy pelts from people in the zone, he tells the NPC "hey, here's 100 gold, buy pelts from people at 5 silver each until you've used it all up". Then he comes back later and collects the pelts.
You could do it the same way with "sell orders" too - Hey NPC, here's a stack of 50 potions of invisibility. Sell them all for 1 gp each. And then you come back later and collect the profits.
That's a lot-different from a global market board.
I keep saying this in lots of threads and I'll say it again. I don't want global market boards. Not in NPC cities, not in player housing areas, not in outposts, not anywhere. I want local and regional markets, where crafters are able to compete on price, quality, AND location convenience. I don't want anything that we can click on and buy something from someone half a world away. After all, it's not like Termizon has an army of goblin drones to deliver those things to us, is it? :) Local and regional markets make *every* place in the game where you can buy/sell matter more - which means, more traffic in population centers of every size.
Kittik said:bigdogchris said:I would be open to something like this. My only concern would be that you don't want to take away from reasons for players to return to their starting/racial city. That was a big problem in EQ where old cities/zones became empty becuase everything you needed was in the new locations.
One of the reasons I'm extreamly skeptical of this idea. I still genuinely feel, that in city, or just outside of city, instanced apartment/Inn room and housing are the best option. Giving players a way to stay out of the city and you're esentially creating ghost towns.
I hate the idea of trying to keep people in a city, just because you want to see people there.
I love the idea of movable housing. This creates emergent villages/cities built by the players where they want to be.
I see no point in cities being the only and forced social areas.