Forums » Pantheon Classes

Class/race restrictions

    • 1963 posts
    August 2, 2017 8:49 AM PDT
    @Nymphey

    With all due respect. What do I thinK? Most importantly I think this isnt EQ and it definitely isnt Norrath. This is a completely different game. Please allow the team to create something unique and interesting. It would be a shame to not take advantage of a new time/place.
    • 760 posts
    August 2, 2017 11:04 AM PDT

    Most, if not all, of my 'race conceptions' were forged in my formative years ... reading Tolkein, playing D&D and reading about mythologies; from Aztec to Zoroastrian. From there springs my native 'assumptions' about the nature of these races. Reading, in particular, allows your imagination to furnish the details from the written thumbnail description.

    Does that mean I have assumptions about Class/Race combinations? Of course...
    ... However :

    I do not hold Pantheon fast to my rigid standards of Race and Class dynamics as they are a new imagining of a world. I read the Lore they present for the Races and use this to inform my views on the Class restrictions they have chosen. Some fit my constructed stereotype, while others do not. This, I do not see as a problem. Merely a point of academic interest.

    @Nymphey :
        Your suggestions hold to some of my stereotypes too - but I am confident of a coherent system to be presented by VR in Pantheon.

    Evoras, chooses the most controversial race of all ... Human!

    • 60 posts
    August 2, 2017 2:02 PM PDT

    Evoras said:

    Most, if not all, of my 'race conceptions' were forged in my formative years ... reading Tolkein, playing D&D and reading about mythologies; from Aztec to Zoroastrian. From there springs my native 'assumptions' about the nature of these races. Reading, in particular, allows your imagination to furnish the details from the written thumbnail description.

    Does that mean I have assumptions about Class/Race combinations? Of course...
    ... However :

    I do not hold Pantheon fast to my rigid standards of Race and Class dynamics as they are a new imagining of a world. I read the Lore they present for the Races and use this to inform my views on the Class restrictions they have chosen. Some fit my constructed stereotype, while others do not. This, I do not see as a problem. Merely a point of academic interest.

    @Nymphey :
        Your suggestions hold to some of my stereotypes too - but I am confident of a coherent system to be presented by VR in Pantheon.

    Evoras, chooses the most controversial race of all ... Human!

    Yea im not saying they have to change things, but there are just some things dear to me that i dont think should change, or dont want them to change. Like human shamans, shouldnt happen. Mermaid monks.. nope. But i have years and years of playing monk and shaman... so those two classes are dear to me.

    Also elves not being able to be clerics? thats just odd.

     

    Amsai said: @Nymphey With all due respect. What do I thinK? Most importantly I think this isnt EQ and it definitely isnt Norrath. This is a completely different game. Please allow the team to create something unique and interesting. It would be a shame to not take advantage of a new time/place.

    Um with all due respect, this isnt a completly different game. a lot of the races and classes are the same. A lot of the jobs each named role is the same as EQ. No this isnt EQ but EQ is the type of game they are trying to make. Yes they are free to do as they wish seeing as its their game. But some things just shouldnt happen, Bards should only be on races that would have the ability to sing, and sing very well. Shamans should not be human, shaman should be left to the more barbaric races. If you turn into a mermaid in the water, you should not be able to be a monk where feet are important. 

    Thats all im saying.

     

    This is a forum for ideas, and we are all free to give out opinions on things. This was simply my view and wishes.

    • 2377 posts
    August 2, 2017 2:07 PM PDT

    @Nymphey

    Tbh, I think you misunderstand some things. I suggest you read the following pages. They may help explain why these decisions were made:

    http://pantheonmmo.com/newsletter/2017_march_loremaster/

    https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/5228/pantheon-class-and-race-combinations/view/page/1

    • 60 posts
    August 2, 2017 3:23 PM PDT

    Bazgrim said:

    @Nymphey

    Tbh, I think you misunderstand some things. I suggest you read the following pages. They may help explain why these decisions were made:

    http://pantheonmmo.com/newsletter/2017_march_loremaster/

    https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/5228/pantheon-class-and-race-combinations/view/page/1

     

    There isn't anything I misunderstood. Ogers in my mind and many many other games seem more shamanistic than druidic. But they are free to make druids anything they wish. And I still say if you lose your legs in the water you shouldn't be able to be a monk. as anytime you fight in the water you would lose all your kick abilities, mean I guess you could try to hit them with your flipper... but that would be a whole body movement and doesn't seem that "monk-like".

    So Dwarves for instance -- as some have already suggested -- prize crafting and smithing to a degree that makes Enchanting a natural fit, but has nothing to do with Summoning. Is what they said for them being enchanters... and I still completely disagree, enchanting metals is completely different than changing your form with illusions, or mesmerizing enemies... so while yes they would enchant metals, this has nothing to do with forms/mez/buffs for combat.

    And as a Race normally strived for the same type of goal, striving to be good, or evil. Focusing on intelligence, or just naturally not having much (ogres). So if a race that focuses on intelligent or is naturally intelligent it makes more sense for them to have all of an archetype open, unless it goes against them being good/evil. Like if a dwarf would have the intelligence to be an enchanter, why then wouldn't some dwarves choose to summon creatures or the undead. That's why I think it's logical if you have the intelligence to wield the arcane in one aspect, you should be able to do it in other ways. Why i dont think enchanter is a good fit for dwarves. but again thats just my opinion

    But your links were interesting and helpful on some on the things, So thank you!

    Still say BOO to Human Shamans tho. 


    This post was edited by Nymphey at August 2, 2017 4:33 PM PDT
    • 932 posts
    August 2, 2017 4:57 PM PDT

    Nymphey said:

    There isn't anything I misunderstood. Ogers in my mind and many many other games seem more shamanistic than druidic. But they are free to make druids anything they wish. And I still say if you lose your legs in the water you shouldn't be able to be a monk. as anytime you fight in the water you would lose all your kick abilities, mean I guess you could try to hit them with your flipper... but that would be a whole body movement and doesn't seem that "monk-like".

    So Dwarves for instance -- as some have already suggested -- prize crafting and smithing to a degree that makes Enchanting a natural fit, but has nothing to do with Summoning. Is what they said for them being enchanters... and I still completely disagree, enchanting metals is completely different than changing your form with illusions, or mesmerizing enemies... so while yes they would enchant metals, this has nothing to do with forms/mez/buffs for combat.

    And as a Race normally strived for the same type of goal, striving to be good, or evil. Focusing on intelligence, or just naturally not having much (ogres). So if a race that focuses on intelligent or is naturally intelligent it makes more sense for them to have all of an archetype open, unless it goes against them being good/evil. Like if a dwarf would have the intelligence to be an enchanter, why then wouldn't some dwarves choose to summon creatures or the undead. That's why I think it's logical if you have the intelligence to wield the arcane in one aspect, you should be able to do it in other ways. Why i dont think enchanter is a good fit for dwarves. but again thats just my opinion

    But your links were interesting and helpful on some on the things, So thank you!

    Still say BOO to Human Shamans tho. 

     

    Dark Myr don't lose their legs in water, they are not mermaids of any sort and haven't been aquatic for a long time. Their capital city is on the land and they permantently breathe with lungs and walk on legs. 

     

    For Dwarves, it seems you can't let go of how you think dwarves should be to be open to the idea that the race is a bit different in this world. The lore put forth by VR touches upon their magical aptitude/interest: 

    ...Believing peace is a product of strength, the Dwarves seek not an empire, but to increase their mastery in smithing, the arcane as well as battle. Their compact form is rarely mistaken for lumbering stiffness, as their reputation in all types of conflict is widely established.

    ...Khazas taught them how to perfectly fuse ice and stone, creating a peerless material in strength and beauty known as Coldark Steel - unbreakable, yet able to be cut thin enough to wear as fabric. With it they built their magnificent Oldassan Citadel in the heart of Khadassa. From that beacon their legacy as champions, mystics, artisans, story-tellers and unfailing companions has flourished, unabated by the storms of change that roll across the planet.

     

    And as for the intellect of races and being able to one means able to do all:  "Once we let each arcane class have its own identity in the world, it didn’t feel right to lump them in as a One Caster Equals All Casters package."

     

    I'd say it isn't that they aren't able but that they aren't interested in general, be it culturally, spiritually, or otherwise. 

    • 60 posts
    August 2, 2017 5:24 PM PDT

    Iksar said:

    Dark Myr don't lose their legs in water, they are not mermaids of any sort and haven't been aquatic for a long time. Their capital city is on the land and they permantently breathe with lungs and walk on legs. 

     

    For Dwarves, it seems you can't let go of how you think dwarves should be to be open to the idea that the race is a bit different in this world. The lore put forth by VR touches upon their magical aptitude/interest: 

    ...Believing peace is a product of strength, the Dwarves seek not an empire, but to increase their mastery in smithing, the arcane as well as battle. Their compact form is rarely mistaken for lumbering stiffness, as their reputation in all types of conflict is widely established.

    ...Khazas taught them how to perfectly fuse ice and stone, creating a peerless material in strength and beauty known as Coldark Steel - unbreakable, yet able to be cut thin enough to wear as fabric. With it they built their magnificent Oldassan Citadel in the heart of Khadassa. From that beacon their legacy as champions, mystics, artisans, story-tellers and unfailing companions has flourished, unabated by the storms of change that roll across the planet.

     

    And as for the intellect of races and being able to one means able to do all:  "Once we let each arcane class have its own identity in the world, it didn’t feel right to lump them in as a One Caster Equals All Casters package."

     

    I'd say it isn't that they aren't able but that they aren't interested in general, be it culturally, spiritually, or otherwise. 

     

    Are you sure they don't? cuz right on the race page if you mouse over the picture it turns into a mermaid with a tail... sooo idk?

    And while it's great that they didn't want to lump all of the classes into the same thing. but some classes should fit together like that, if a race can be a warrior and a cleric, there should be no reason they couldn't also be a paladin. Simply denying someone the paladin class because you didn't want to lump it in with similar classes isn't really a good reason in my book.

    and If dwarves are so different in this game, then why stick with the love of smithing and refining metal? Sorry to say but a race devoted to the study of rocks and ore, wouldn't really be an "intelligent" race or be devoted to illusion and mesmerizing monsters, as much as humans who study the arcane and so on. So giving them the enchanter class simply because they would enchant metal, does not make sense to me, and never will.you linked "From that beacon, their legacy as champions, mystics, artisans, storytellers and unfailing companions has flourished" nothing in that screams soft squishy caster who stands back and casts spells. A Smiths body is rough and hard, full of muscle that a whole life of beating metal and working with hot fire gets you. To slap robes on that and have them pretend to be a caster race... idk just doesn't make any form of sense to me.

    You can't be a warrior who with stands the swipe of a dragon's tail if you're 3 feet tall, and you can't be a giant ogre who sneaks tries to stealth through a crowded bar, nor can you study rocks your whole life and know how to memorize a goblin, it just doesn't fit together. It seems like a bad call to me, but it's not my game.

     

    btw, Iksar, the master race! Love them!


    This post was edited by Nymphey at August 2, 2017 5:28 PM PDT
    • 932 posts
    August 3, 2017 11:38 AM PDT

    100 positive they don't. When they arrived on Terminus the waters were poison to their bodies and their god sacrificed herself to change them:

    "...Sickened with grief as she watched her people perishing, the brave goddess gambled on another, more perilous chance: leveraging the essence of her immortality to recreate the Myr anew, even giving them a lung by which to breath on land and legs with which to walk. In a brilliant moment of sacrifice, the miraculous exchange saved the Myr, transforming them forever. "

    Right, but just because you have both classes to form a hybrid doesn't mean you have the hybrids. It would require clerics leaving the order and taking up arms to pursue carrying out their own judgement, then creating the order that teaches the knowledge they had found. I'd say it's reasonable to think that some of the races who have clerics and warriors have not done that legwork or otherwise had enough do it and form an order to teach others. Maybe their cleric order is so very strict and to take up arms or try to use the powers of their god for their own violence + retribution is seen as heresy. Same as how I would think it reasonable to suggest that Dwarves aren't summoners because they could view it as an affront to true craftsmanship. Here is VR talking about Elves and why they aren't clerics/paladins, which I imagine they would (maybe will in the future) have such lore explainations for other races cultural outlooks in the future:

    Another hot button issue was that of the lack of a Cleric or Paladin class available to our Elves. While the superficial answer of “think of them as wood elves, not high elves” makes sense to most veteran gamers, there is a deeper lore meaning behind that rationale. Justin explained that the races that were prone to produce Clerics and Paladins were ones that were deeply connected to their deities, and that relationship was one that was central to their daily lives. The Elves are a bit different in that regard.

    “While their pantheon is important to the Elves, their response to several tragic and divisive historical moments has superseded the way they see themselves. To a degree Elves have become more ideological than religious. While some races are separated into different factions based on which deity they worship, Elves are split between two extremes (Ashen and Ember) and the nominal middle called Lucent. Those division represent the way they think is best to protect and prosper their people. Is it interwoven with their worship? Yes. But faith isn’t the first-thought focus of their life. It’s fair to ask if that is an imbalance for them”

    I understand the argument that these races may be mentally/physically capable of being these classes so they should be able to do so, but I feel that it makes a lot more of a rich world and sense that the player characters are average representations of their race culturally having been brought up and raised in the bubble of that races influence/folklore/history. As opposed to being the outlier character that isn't really ingrained with the racial lore/history, the extremely rare ogre wizard or gnomish warrior. To quote a post I made some time that feels somewhat applicable:

    One of the trade offs to an MMO vs a pen and paper RPG is that players play a huge role in shaping each others' perceptions of the world. Allowing free for all race/class combinations would inevitably lead to a lot of the racial character and distinction being eroded, because you can't really tell an audience that ogres are not in tune with the arcane when ogre wizard is the FOTM, or that the gnomes are beings without true physical form who are culturally not interested in expansion preferring instead values in workmanship and study when you pass yet another gnome warrior every ten minutes in the street.

    I get the desire to play off the wall combinations or the societal outlier. I've played a few weird race/class combinations in DnD myself. But a pen and paper RPG can treat player characters as exceptions to the norms of their classes and cultures in a way that an MMO can't, because the players are a part of defining the norm in an MMO.

    In an MMO the class restrictions should represent the average member of any given race. This doesn't seem to be a highly globalized world in which every race intimately knows all about one another, it seems far more tribal than that. Sure they probably know OF the other races and indeed some may have spread out to live among them but most stick with their cultural traditions based on racial history/traits/strengths/weaknesses.

    The Dwarves surely do share some common ground with those from other fantasy lore but that doesn't mean they have to follow all of it. In the quotes I shared from their (limited) lore it DOES mention they seek to increase their mastery of the arcane as well as it mentions their legacy as mystics. Both of which suggest at the very least SOME magical aptitude and interest. They aren't all smiths and while you mention their bodies being rough and hard, full of muscle the lore also explicitly state: "Their compact form is rarely mistaken for lumbering stiffness, as their reputation in all types of conflict is widely established."

     

    As for the last bit, at some point realism has to go out the window. A warrior standing 6 feet tall or likely even 10 feet tall isn't likely to stand up to the swipe of a dragon's tail either, let alone a dragon's breath. And lucky for us we don't have to figure out how ogre rogue could make any sense since it isn't an option. :) 

    • 60 posts
    August 3, 2017 11:59 AM PDT

    Yea true, I understand the lore reasons. But the only reason I have found is that dwarves enchant the metals they work on, so enchanter was a natural fit... that makes no sense still. Just because you "enchant" metal does not mean you would break off from that to learn to enchant someone's mind or speed their attacks or anything else. So still doesn't seem to fit very well.

    That's the same kinda logic where I could say Well they have magic forges and use magic fire to heat them... sooo they should be able to be wizards and use fireballs. That's even more logical then the enchanting metal jump to the enchanter class. at least with that example its a direct connection between fire and fireball.

    But in the end it's their game, it just feels like the devs had this conversation:

    Dev1: *thinking* hmm back in EQ I used to run around at a dwarf on my chanter.

    Dev1: Hey dev 2, let's make dwarves be able to be enchanters!

    Dev2: why would we do that?

    Dev1: Well you see they enchant metal... sooo wouldn't enchanter be a natural fit? I mean it has the word chanter right there.

    Dev2: well.. I guess... but wouldn't they get the wizard/summoner classes too if they can be enchanter?

    Dev1: well.... lets not... you know... bunch them up...

    Dev2: eh ok.

     

    its just more logical that a smithing race, would pick up a weapon to fight... or learn healing magic if they are magically inclined. Or combing the natural fighting skills and healing magic. Not break from what VR has said is the race's focus to learn to control peoples minds. Enchanting metal should be more like for it was in the Legend of Drizzt books, where that dwarf is making that hammer.... he isn't an enchanter but has a natural ability to enchant the weapon he's making, putting his soul into the weapon.

    Enchanting metal shouldn't be part of a class.... should be a subset of mining.

    Life underground working with stone/metal makes a race naturally physically strong... you cant say a rock is not hard when its a rock... thats just lazy to me.

    but in the end its their game... they can do what they want. But to me it makes zero sense and i would never play one.

    Same with human shamans :P

    • 932 posts
    August 3, 2017 1:56 PM PDT

    To be fair, anything can be made to make sense with the right lorework. Off the top of my head a reason they might not be (though they could be able) wizards or summoners could be due to not all schools of magic/classes being the same and magic is far more nuanced; be it the cadence of word, movement of body/hands, tones of voice/languages altogether, or possibly even deity related. Think of it like instruments, a pianist can't just pick up a guitar or violin and make pleasing music even though he likely understands all the concepts and underlying theory of music. Another reason they might just have enchanters is could be that when Dwarves discovered or were given magic it was in a more base form and it took time before one of them figured out that they even could use the magic to enchant metals and they learned about illusions and mezzing before that...or perhaps they DID start with just enchanting of metals but over the ages the curious minds of some expanded upon that magic to figure out what else could be done with it. Wars in particular would be a catalyst to trying to figure out how to use/expand such a magic to work against their enemies, but that doesn't mean they also had access or knowledge of other arcane arts/schools. We also have to remember that Terminus is still relatively new and the races all arrived seperately, so there isn't some long ancient history between them nor does it seem like there has been tons of intermixing culturally as each race as far as I can tell thus far seems much more tribal and interested in their own affairs rather than others. Humans being the biggest outlier to that. 

     

    Human shamans...well I'll quote myself again rom the race class chart thread Bazgrim posted since it's easier:

     

    True power speaks not a word, yet its presence is deafening. The city of Thronefast has been that presence for the Humans for nearly 500 years, and to know their heights of power is to behold the capital, a breathtaking jewel in the light of dawn. The breadth of their influence is glimpsed in the majestic navy, unrivaled on the open waters. Students and masters of nearly every art and discipline, Humans' middle-rung size and strength is perhaps a lone mediocrity, their oft flamboyant pride not withering before kings, ghouls or dragons.

     

    ...When first arriving on the continent that became Kingsreach, the frail colony was helpless under a winter so stark it was called "cursed". Only by heavy reliance upon the nearby Elves of Faerthale did they outlasted the tempest.

    ...At the time of Avendyr's death in 525 IH, the capital city had no equal in wealth or influence, no peer in beauty or acclaim, and his passing was honored across four continents.

    Over 450 years later the Humans are still prospering, though the heritage of sacrifice and service has been exchanged for vice amongst much of the aristocracy. Nevertheless, Amenthiel 'The Lady King', a true blood heir of Avendyr, has shown traits of her ancestor's character and composure.

     

     

    It starts out in the preface of Human lore saying they are the students and masters of nearly every art and discipline, which I think is pretty telling lore-wise as to why they can be every class. It then goes on to mention that in their early days on Terminus they heavily relied upon the Elves, which I imagine they would have learned a lot from. Presumably they would have picked up Druidism and Shamanism from them, perhaps even rangering as their first city was settled in a forest. Then in time as their influence, wealth, and (I imagine) people spread across the lands, with no equal among any of the races, they are most likely above all to have picked up any other classes they may not have already had culturally during their past.

    • 167 posts
    August 6, 2017 10:44 AM PDT

    The only issue I  have with the race/class conversation is why do humans get all classes. That to me seems odd.... our hubris even carries over to MMOs :)


    This post was edited by Aatu at August 6, 2017 10:45 AM PDT
    • 268 posts
    August 6, 2017 1:05 PM PDT

    Personally, I've found the reasoning about why certain races can or cannot be one class or another, explained quite clearly in the lore that was posted.

    Regarding some unusual choices: 

    Ogre Bards: someone mentioned how this could be cause bards have to sing beautifully. To whose ears?  I'm sure that to ogres, an ogre bard can sing quite nicely.  They may even think that human bards sound terrible.

    Human Shaman: It seems odd to me that a race like humans would not be able to make potions.  They pretty much can do everything else a shaman does and probably better.  So why not a shaman?

    Dark Myr Monks:  While kicking is something a monk does well, who is to say that Dark Myr, if they could change to Mer's (Mermain, Merman) underwater, that they cannot have special whipping capabilities?  Imaging getting stunned by a Slice/Whip! Monks certainly can't just kick.  That would be awesome!!

    Rogues of any large class:  Hmmm... I never believed in a barbarian Rogue... I mean really?

    Dwarf Enchanters:  Hmm.. not so sure about that but I can see how it fit in the lore.

     

     

    • 60 posts
    August 6, 2017 4:01 PM PDT

    Durp said:

    Ogre Bards: someone mentioned how this could be cause bards have to sing beautifully. To whose ears?  I'm sure that to ogres, an ogre bard can sing quite nicely.  They may even think that human bards sound terrible.

    Human Shaman: It seems odd to me that a race like humans would not be able to make potions.  They pretty much can do everything else a shaman does and probably better.  So why not a shaman?

    Dark Myr Monks:  While kicking is something a monk does well, who is to say that Dark Myr, if they could change to Mer's (Mermain, Merman) underwater, that they cannot have special whipping capabilities?  Imaging getting stunned by a Slice/Whip! Monks certainly can't just kick.  That would be awesome!!

    Rogues of any large class:  Hmmm... I never believed in a barbarian Rogue... I mean really?

    Dwarf Enchanters:  Hmm.. not so sure about that but I can see how it fit in the lore.

    Ogre bards: You don't have to sing well, you need the vocal range/magic reinforcement to sing the set magic songs for the world. Your voice has to haunt some and inspire others, you're not just singing for a group of only ogres. You need a voice that can captivate and bring joy/despair to ALL races. I don't think an ogre would have that range...

    but that's prolly why ogres don't get bards...

    Dark Myr monks: yes an underwater tail whip is possible as animals can do it, however it's not a quick move... it's a longer full body, having to literally whip your whole body around building the momentum for the tail... I'm just saying that's an odd move and not monk-like... and wouldn't be able to block/dodge moves doing it.

    That is if they do get a tail underwater. Iksars says they don't, but the mouse over on their race picture suggests they do.

    Dwarf enchanters: Have already stated why I think this is a very odd and not lore friendly combination. Even with the wording the devs used to explain it.

    Aatu said:

    The only issue I  have with the race/class conversation is why do humans get all classes. That to me seems odd.... our hubris even carries over to MMOs :)

    Yea that's what I'm saying... no race should get to be everything... I mean that just seems like an overpowered race. It just means we are going to see a lot of humans and Dark Myr as they get the most races. Makes much more sense to spread everything out a little more. Yes, humans are the basic template for a "humanoid" species and yes we as a race are good at adapting to many situations. But still, we shouldn't get to be EVERYTHING. 

    But it's up to the devs, and we as humans will just adapt like normal


    This post was edited by Nymphey at August 6, 2017 4:02 PM PDT
    • 932 posts
    August 7, 2017 10:39 AM PDT

    Humans being everything fits in with their lore, and with humanity in general here on Earth.

     

    It's also possible that they can be everything due to humans pretty much always being the most commonly picked race in MMOs. They are the most familiar to us as players and tend to be the base model for armor so they often look better on them (espeically with no tails or horns sticking out oddly). People find it easier to empathize with, roleplay, and understand a character similar to themselves. Humans are humans, and they can be expected to act similarly in fiction to how they act in real life. Simply put, it's easier to be human than to be something else.

    • 60 posts
    August 7, 2017 8:05 PM PDT

    Iksar said:

    Humans being everything fits in with their lore, and with humanity in general here on Earth.

     

    It's also possible that they can be everything due to humans pretty much always being the most commonly picked race in MMOs. They are the most familiar to us as players and tend to be the base model for armor so they often look better on them (espeically with no tails or horns sticking out oddly). People find it easier to empathize with, roleplay, and understand a character similar to themselves. Humans are humans, and they can be expected to act similarly in fiction to how they act in real life. Simply put, it's easier to be human than to be something else.

    I could accept that easily, as long as they had to start in some harsh backwoods place, Like an ice cold mountain area or a swamp or something... like hash primitive living... kinda like the barbs. Like maybe just shamans always go there, warriors/rogues can choose. You know starting cities... tho it sounds like it's going to be all crammed into one city.

    But personally I never play humans... hell I'm one IRL... why would I wanna be one in a fantasy game. 

    Iksar for life baby!

    • 932 posts
    August 8, 2017 9:56 AM PDT

    Nymphey said:

    I could accept that easily, as long as they had to start in some harsh backwoods place, Like an ice cold mountain area or a swamp or something... like hash primitive living... kinda like the barbs. Like maybe just shamans always go there, warriors/rogues can choose. You know starting cities... tho it sounds like it's going to be all crammed into one city.

    But personally I never play humans... hell I'm one IRL... why would I wanna be one in a fantasy game. 

    Iksar for life baby!

     

    Anything is possible, maybe the human shaman/druid/ranger start in a place kind of like Surefall Glade in EQ. Near Thronefast but not IN the city. 

     

    The biggest argument of humans being everything is likely more based in our reality of humanity, in which every one of the classes have roots in our culture/history. Every instance of humans in fantasy are just Earth humans thrown into a different setting, at least that I can think of.

    • 60 posts
    August 11, 2017 10:47 PM PDT

    Iksar said:

     Anything is possible, maybe the human shaman/druid/ranger start in a place kind of like Surefall Glade in EQ. Near Thronefast but not IN the city. 

     

    The biggest argument of humans being everything is likely more based in our reality of humanity, in which every one of the classes have roots in our culture/history. Every instance of humans in fantasy are just Earth humans thrown into a different setting, at least that I can think of.

    Idk, to me, I just hate the idea of any single race having every class. But as humans are both good and evil, with some focusing on physical strength and some on mental strength. They should get most things, assuming they are like RL humans. But even if it's not super lore friendly, they shouldn't get everything. At least that's how I feel. Not that it means anything lol

    • 16 posts
    October 10, 2017 2:47 PM PDT

    I'm defiantly for class/race restrictions. Lore wise it just doesn't make sense for any race to be any class. Now I am hoping for some rare race illusion clicky items.

    • 298 posts
    October 12, 2017 12:37 PM PDT

    I think there is a good possibility that we will have other class/race combos unlock through the progeny system. 

    Example: 

    1st play through as a Dwarven Cleric

    2nd play through as Elven Wizard

    3rd play through as Elven Cleric (which isn't an standard option.  It would have to be unlocked.)

    Does anyone have thoughts on this type of benefit from the progeny system? Like/Dislike?

     

    • 1492 posts
    October 12, 2017 8:39 PM PDT

    I like the idea of race/class unlocks through progeny.

    • 298 posts
    October 12, 2017 8:42 PM PDT

    I know you do... ;)

    • 119 posts
    October 14, 2017 1:03 PM PDT

    oneADseven said:

    I like the idea of race/class unlocks through progeny.

     

    I like this as well.

    Race/class restrictions are always going to be a sore part for most of the community to deal with.  Everyone has a perfect Race/Class combo in mind and if it wasnt able to be made, would lobby for it otherwise.  

    Me personally, i would LOVE an Archai Necro, or Cleric.. but without one, i will just make something else, and never look back.