Forums » The Monk

My xmas wish for Feign Death

    • 371 posts
    December 23, 2015 10:45 PM PST

    As I'm (once again) playing EQ, this time a monk, I have a small xmas wish for Pantheon (if monks will have FD similar to EQ).

    In EQ, if you FD successfully while a mob is casting a spell on you, you will be considered alive again once the spell hits (regardless of resist or actual hit). I don't know if that behaviour is a bug or working as intended...but it is extremely annoying, and I hope that in Pantheon FD will work correctly. Meaning, if you successfully FD, you ARE dead to the mobs...regardless if some were just casting at you or not :)

    • Moderator
    • 6970 posts
    December 24, 2015 1:07 AM PST

    I don't know Sarim, if I was casting a spell at you and you just all of the sudden, fell over, I would finish casting my spell at you just to make sure...with all these zombies around, you can never be too sure ;)

    • 46 posts
    December 28, 2015 1:49 AM PST

    Hey Sarim,

    First you must consider what is actually happening.

    For instance, if you or I were attempting to feign death (or act like you are sleeping) in real life and then all of a sudden we are blasted with magic or kicked in the face would you be able to maintain the deathly (sleepy) facade? Chances are that either are unlikely and that is why if you Feign Death BEFORE a caster finishes their spell the feign will ultimately fail.

    Try to time the Feign after getting nuked and it usually works out better for you in the long run. 

    Sincerely,

    Throat

    • 62 posts
    February 13, 2016 2:47 AM PST

    Failing a FD was sucky but i frankly wouldnt have it any other way. First it means you have to pay attention and be a good monk! Second it makes sense! Having skills that dont fail should be left for top level monks. The way, EQ did it was pretty good if you ask me. It took a while to get decent at flopping and this was rewarding as you got better!

     

    Senadin has fallen to the ground!

    Senadin has taken 1120 hp of damage from ice comet.

    Senadin has died...

     

     

    • 46 posts
    March 28, 2016 11:55 PM PDT

    Heheh! 

    I think it would be nice if to see different Feign animations.

    • 49 posts
    April 3, 2016 3:51 AM PDT

    In my opinion timing your FD was part of the game in EQ, and I would love to see that same feature here, if we do get the FD skill that is. Removing all those small things from gameplay and you soon have another dumbed down WoW clone. A MMO should be played with skill, not smashing your button franticly to get instant win. My main was a monk in EQ for the record, best class until the bards became OP and ruined the pulling for us :)


    This post was edited by Koras at April 3, 2016 3:52 AM PDT
    • 122 posts
    April 30, 2016 8:28 AM PDT

    Agreed with the above posts, I am all for having to time your FD.  It made it very important to use corners to your advantage when it came to timing your FD.  The better question would be to know if line of sight will be required to land and spell...  Again, I am fine with how it was back then, you had to be on top of your game and pay attention to everything giving you the stink-eye at the moment, overlooking a nuke that you received while fleeing meant the potential following nuke that broke your feign death.

    • 324 posts
    May 3, 2016 10:36 AM PDT

    Kilsin said:

    I don't know Sarim, if I was casting a spell at you and you just all of the sudden, fell over, I would finish casting my spell at you just to make sure...with all these zombies around, you can never be too sure ;)

    Always double tap.

    Koras said:

    best class until the bards became OP and ruined the pulling for us :)

    You're welcome for figuring out the FM + bellow ;)

    A major issue I see is FD classes tag-team pulling caster bosses without worring about the spell on pull. Example: One monk tags boss with heavy dmg spell -> Second monk tags mob right after first (something with less threat or first monk tosses a few things at it or whatever) -> second monk runs back to group/out of LoS while first monk has agro -> first monk FDs right before the cast ends and has no threat of getting nuked. Yes, this would technically be considered a pull strategy, but it would require almost no skill to pull off.

    Also, while EQ and Panth aren't heavy on pvp at all, it would also make it that much easier to destroy caster players.

    edit: If there is a non-cast skill to mess with casters mid-cast it would need to be something like a smoke bomb where the caster loses LoS. Long reuse/recast on something like that of course.


    This post was edited by tanwedar at May 3, 2016 10:42 AM PDT
    • 2262 posts
    November 28, 2016 8:15 AM PST

    Lokkan said:

    Agreed with the above posts, I am all for having to time your FD.  It made it very important to use corners to your advantage when it came to timing your FD.  The better question would be to know if line of sight will be required to land and spell...  Again, I am fine with how it was back then, you had to be on top of your game and pay attention to everything giving you the stink-eye at the moment, overlooking a nuke that you received while fleeing meant the potential following nuke that broke your feign death.

    I agree. I think it's definitely better to require some actual player skill and strategy to successfully pull off a FD. For example, it never really made sense to me that you could be running from a train and not be actually taking any damage, then just smash the FD at any given point and instantly lose all aggro. Like what do the mobs think happened? You conveniently had a heart attack and instantly died? I suppose this would depend on the intelligence of the mob. But overall, I think the vast majority of mobs wouldn't be so easily fooled. I think it would be much more interesting if you had to have recently taken damage in order for a FD to work. That is, to suggest that a specific blow was the cause of your death. Rather than just being able to use your "Get Out of Jail Free" card whenever you want. And even still, maybe the mobs will come and stand by your "corpse" for a few moments until they are convinced you are dead, rather than immediately turning around and walking away. Let's move beyond the antiquated AI of classic EQ haha.

    • 423 posts
    December 7, 2016 8:53 PM PST

    Bazgrim said:

    Lokkan said:

    Agreed with the above posts, I am all for having to time your FD.  It made it very important to use corners to your advantage when it came to timing your FD.  The better question would be to know if line of sight will be required to land and spell...  Again, I am fine with how it was back then, you had to be on top of your game and pay attention to everything giving you the stink-eye at the moment, overlooking a nuke that you received while fleeing meant the potential following nuke that broke your feign death.

    I agree. I think it's definitely better to require some actual player skill and strategy to successfully pull off a FD. For example, it never really made sense to me that you could be running from a train and not be actually taking any damage, then just smash the FD at any given point and instantly lose all aggro. Like what do the mobs think happened? You conveniently had a heart attack and instantly died? I suppose this would depend on the intelligence of the mob. But overall, I think the vast majority of mobs wouldn't be so easily fooled. I think it would be much more interesting if you had to have recently taken damage in order for a FD to work. That is, to suggest that a specific blow was the cause of your death. Rather than just being able to use your "Get Out of Jail Free" card whenever you want. And even still, maybe the mobs will come and stand by your "corpse" for a few moments until they are convinced you are dead, rather than immediately turning around and walking away. Let's move beyond the antiquated AI of classic EQ haha.

    *Bazgrim FD's*

    *A Froglok pokes your rib cage to see if your dead*

    *Bazgrim giggles uncontrollably* 

    "Frooooak!!!" 

    *Bazgrim dies in a flurry of froglok legs and arms*

     

    • 12 posts
    December 7, 2016 10:20 PM PST

    Feign Death is an absolute necessity for monks!  They were excellent at pulling in EQ and it should be a major part of their class for survivability in PvE.

    • 2262 posts
    December 8, 2016 6:11 AM PST

    Hokanu said:

    Bazgrim said:

    Lokkan said:

    Agreed with the above posts, I am all for having to time your FD.  It made it very important to use corners to your advantage when it came to timing your FD.  The better question would be to know if line of sight will be required to land and spell...  Again, I am fine with how it was back then, you had to be on top of your game and pay attention to everything giving you the stink-eye at the moment, overlooking a nuke that you received while fleeing meant the potential following nuke that broke your feign death.

    I agree. I think it's definitely better to require some actual player skill and strategy to successfully pull off a FD. For example, it never really made sense to me that you could be running from a train and not be actually taking any damage, then just smash the FD at any given point and instantly lose all aggro. Like what do the mobs think happened? You conveniently had a heart attack and instantly died? I suppose this would depend on the intelligence of the mob. But overall, I think the vast majority of mobs wouldn't be so easily fooled. I think it would be much more interesting if you had to have recently taken damage in order for a FD to work. That is, to suggest that a specific blow was the cause of your death. Rather than just being able to use your "Get Out of Jail Free" card whenever you want. And even still, maybe the mobs will come and stand by your "corpse" for a few moments until they are convinced you are dead, rather than immediately turning around and walking away. Let's move beyond the antiquated AI of classic EQ haha.

    *Bazgrim FD's*

    *A Froglok pokes your rib cage to see if your dead*

    *Bazgrim giggles uncontrollably* 

    "Frooooak!!!" 

    *Bazgrim dies in a flurry of froglok legs and arms*

     

    Exactly! lol

    But if my character's FD skill level was high enough, he would have learned how to suppress the urge to giggle :P

    • 5 posts
    January 17, 2017 6:10 AM PST

    Honestly, while the FD skill has defined the monk on EQ imo, i think it would be interesting to change it up. what if instead of FD, that they gave the special attacks from monks a debuff.... either like a snare effect, root, a knock out, etc. it would still allow the monk to pull, but he would also have to engage the mobs instead of just throwing something and start flopping to reduce numbers. alot more dangerous for the monk, yes, but imo alot more fun. something like that would also allow the monk to keep mobs stunned (knocked out) during combat to be a sort of crowd control in the (rare) care of an overpull.....

    • 324 posts
    January 17, 2017 8:28 AM PST

    ChielingofRoD said:

    Honestly, while the FD skill has defined the monk on EQ imo, i think it would be interesting to change it up. what if instead of FD, that they gave the special attacks from monks a debuff.... either like a snare effect, root, a knock out, etc. it would still allow the monk to pull, but he would also have to engage the mobs instead of just throwing something and start flopping to reduce numbers. alot more dangerous for the monk, yes, but imo alot more fun. something like that would also allow the monk to keep mobs stunned (knocked out) during combat to be a sort of crowd control in the (rare) care of an overpull.....

    This is something I'm totally against. FD is one of the monk's special abilities that sets it apart as a puller. There are many threads about CC classes and it's pretty much a common agreement on having as few classes as possibly with CC and little overlap between classes/type of CC. Especially with bards coming in later on that's a bit much. 

    • 5 posts
    January 17, 2017 8:32 AM PST

    you can still pull with this ability set instead of FD. it would just have to be done differently.

    • 324 posts
    January 17, 2017 8:47 AM PST

    I understand that you mean it as a pull method or a way to help pull at least. My point is that FD is a monk's signature pull method. As soon as you start adding in other abilities it begins to take away from the possibility of needing a pacify via enc. Depending on how they build bards, the main pull ability they had was a short duration pacify. Sure, once mobs get to the group they can CC other ways, but that's part of the class design and their dps/survivability/etc takes a hit because of all their capabilities.

    • 5 posts
    January 17, 2017 8:55 AM PST

    i totally get that FD is the monks signature pull method. hell, ive played a monk in EQ since 99 myself. however, why use what we know besides that its easier? FD is the signature monk pull move because EQ set it up that way. what else could be done to make monks the pulling class besides falling back on FD?

    • 14 posts
    February 19, 2017 10:22 AM PST

    ChielingofRoD said:

    i totally get that FD is the monks signature pull method. hell, ive played a monk in EQ since 99 myself. however, why use what we know besides that its easier? FD is the signature monk pull move because EQ set it up that way. what else could be done to make monks the pulling class besides falling back on FD?

    Are you suggesting to give something in addition to FD? Or replace FD with something else?

    FD / agro clearing is necessary to pull anything challenging in a game with eq/pantheon style mechanics. The only way you would be able to make agro clearing not be a necessity would be by giving the ability to control what an npc does from a distance(which should stay in the CC classes), change the direction they are facing with a pebble without receiving agro, or be able to make multiple move from a group while leaving a safer amount behind agro free, consistently. If throwing pebbles becomes the primary job of a Monk, no thanks :P

    FD was not the only reason Monks were superior pullers until POP, they were also able to sneak pull with ranged items, separating mobs without needing FD (unless something went wrong). They had higher regen than other classes, and every few minutes could instantly mend 30% of their health for those Oh **** moments, or to save the healers mana for faster pulls.

    • 54 posts
    February 21, 2017 3:39 AM PST

    To me, feign death skill is and should be a rogue skill. A monk is too straightforward to go to such lenghts, whereas a rogue collects all these kinds of tricks. I must say i'm surprised to find it in the monk section. To me it's either a rogue skill, animal skill (possibly with druid transformation) and maybe ranger. Not monk. Monks are not cheaters or deceivers, they are true, wise and brave.

    It's just like saying a paladin should have skills to retreat faster. That doesn't fit.

     

    Cheers


    This post was edited by Gideon at February 21, 2017 3:58 AM PST
    • 74 posts
    February 23, 2017 3:54 PM PST

    I love your character assessment of Monks, Gideon.

    I think that Monks were given Feign Death because it is a skill that real life (Eastern) monks use to control not only their breathing and heart rate, but also their emotional responses. It is playing dead to avoid conflict, which seems more honorable than killing or running away.

    I believe that Rogues would want to disappear entirely, not get caught with vials of poison, climbing gear, infiltration tools and stolen objects on their prone bodies. That's a good way to lose a hand and/or head; even after death. Besides, Rogues invariably get invisibility and sneaking in every game. Monks are never invisible unless they have a potion or a companion to make them so. It would be interesting if a Monk tradeoff to being able to FD at will was the inability to ever become invisible until max level or something.

    Paladins retreat? Nahhh...  8b  All kidding aside, you are right: It doesn't fit.

    • 8 posts
    March 4, 2017 10:18 AM PST

    I agree with Gideon as well. I think feint death is more suited for other classes. I'm sure fans of EQ will disagree, but remember guys...this isn't EQ. Its Pantheon. IMO, feint death is a boring ability for the monk, especially so if the class revolves around that ability. Monks are all about martial arts, evasion/agility, and wisdom.

    • 82 posts
    April 1, 2017 11:13 AM PDT

    Sarim said:

    As I'm (once again) playing EQ, this time a monk, I have a small xmas wish for Pantheon (if monks will have FD similar to EQ).

    In EQ, if you FD successfully while a mob is casting a spell on you, you will be considered alive again once the spell hits (regardless of resist or actual hit). I don't know if that behaviour is a bug or working as intended...but it is extremely annoying, and I hope that in Pantheon FD will work correctly. Meaning, if you successfully FD, you ARE dead to the mobs...regardless if some were just casting at you or not :)

     

    No.

    Not unless there is an additional pain tolerance skill. If you FD because you can't properly time or you were careless with your pull or aggro, you shouldn't have a get out of jail free card. It worked as intended, if you play dead after I fire my bow at you, the arrow hits you and you scream... I am going to shoot you again. Same thing with a spell

    • 32 posts
    April 2, 2017 9:32 AM PDT

    i like it when a monk wipes his own raid :) Makes him dance around his own lies on what really happen !


    This post was edited by EnlightenedGuru at April 2, 2017 9:33 AM PDT
    • 123 posts
    April 14, 2017 3:43 PM PDT

    FD was the most powerful skill in EQ, and the most fun too, at least for me. it should be hard to use and require skill (player skill, not characters). very hard and lots of skill.

    • 5 posts
    May 4, 2017 1:48 PM PDT

    Bazgrim said:

    I agree. I think it's definitely better to require some actual player skill and strategy to successfully pull off a FD. For example, it never really made sense to me that you could be running from a train and not be actually taking any damage, then just smash the FD at any given point and instantly lose all aggro. Like what do the mobs think happened? You conveniently had a heart attack and instantly died? I suppose this would depend on the intelligence of the mob. But overall, I think the vast majority of mobs wouldn't be so easily fooled. I think it would be much more interesting if you had to have recently taken damage in order for a FD to work. That is, to suggest that a specific blow was the cause of your death. Rather than just being able to use your "Get Out of Jail Free" card whenever you want. And even still, maybe the mobs will come and stand by your "corpse" for a few moments until they are convinced you are dead, rather than immediately turning around and walking away. Let's move beyond the antiquated AI of classic EQ haha.

     

    I totally agree.  I was a little bummed to see in the recent stream that Cohh playing a monk could FD immediately after pulling, before the mobs even touched him.  After touting the AI of the mobs, such as alarmists (which I thought was really cool!)  I was surprised they just took the FD at face value.  It's still early in development though; hopefully this will get looked at!  

    As was otherwise mentioned higher in the thread I'm all for monks having other pulling/CC abilities besides FD, such as nerve strikes that temporarily incapacitate or slow mobs, but that would be a different thread topic I guess!