Kilsin said:Do you like random or predictable world events or would you rather stick to normal structured content? :)
Kilsin can you give a few examples of the differences to be crystal clear what you mean?
Having random world events was one of the amazing things about early EQ. It is this kind of thing that makes you feel like you are missing out on a living, evolving world when you are not logged into it... GM events back in the day were a lot of fun and provided unique item or title opportunities! So having random content to go along with the regular structured game would be incredible...
Pyye said:Kilsin said:Do you like random or predictable world events or would you rather stick to normal structured content? :)
Kilsin can you give a few examples of the differences to be crystal clear what you mean?
Having random world events was one of the amazing things about early EQ. It is this kind of thing that makes you feel like you are missing out on a living, evolving world when you are not logged into it... GM events back in the day were a lot of fun and provided unique item or title opportunities! So having random content to go along with the regular structured game would be incredible...
Certainly mate! :)
I am speaking about world events like having your actions trigger a wild stampede (by killing an alpha male deer) or a storm (by using a certain spell that interferes with that zones weather system) or an angry mob or clan try to scare you off (due to travelling to close to their camp or killing one of their scouts) etc. immersive content that helps bring the world to life.
I love GM events too and public boss events but this question is specifically directed towards immersive world events. :)
Interesting... I do see how this will add to a "living" environment. I honestly do not think I have ever experienced this in a game before.
As long as having this environment does not equal random, sure deaths or become an inconvenience. I have always wanted a game with this dynamic atmosphere to play in... But since there is a death penalty, it needs to be careful not to trigger too often where it can become a nuisance.
It would be neat to see something like this as a % chance to be triggered, and possible rare item drop scenario. At least then the "risk" factor has some kind of reward too for your actions in the world.
I am definitely interested in other people's opinion on this...
Tuhart said:ok newbie here still dont understand the differnce.
Would it not be predictable for a tribe to come after you if you killed one of their clan on your travels and went too close to the homelands.
apologies for being dull.
You may not know you are close to their camp and accidently kill a roaming scout, for example, it may turn them all against you, they may run away and leave the zone in fear of you, different "surprising" reactions are what we call world events, usually in MMORPGs the mobs stand still while you slaughter their friends and families or all charge you at once while being predictable social aggro mobs with limited AI but different responses to your actions or triggering a bigger chain of events is what I am talking about.
They can range from killing a cow and suddenly as farmer yells at you to get off their land or kill a rest alpha deer and have the nearby herd charge at you (you had no idea they were there) or casting a spell that reacts to the environment and backfires, causing a storm that actually damages your health etc. all random but immersive world events. :)
Pyye said:Interesting... I do see how this will add to a "living" environment. I honestly do not think I have ever experienced this in a game before.
As long as having this environment does not equal random, sure deaths or become an inconvenience. I have always wanted a game with this dynamic atmosphere to play in... But since there is a death penalty, it needs to be careful not to trigger too often where it can become a nuisance.
It would be neat to see something like this as a % chance to be triggered, and possible rare item drop scenario. At least then the "risk" factor has some kind of reward too for your actions in the world.
I am definitely interested in other people's opinion on this...
See my above example posted in reply to Tuhart :)
It would be a % chance, a very low one, if you went back 100 more times, it may never occur again for you, making them truly immersive random world events or it may not happen for you in the first place and it happens to someone else, making for a great story that makes you want to check it out ;)
I like random and predictable world events.
My example of predictable: There was a cave in Luclin that had rockhoppers and rockhopper hides were a good way to increase tailoring to a high level with a fairly simple recipe. So a bunch of us- sewing minded- would spend some time in those caves going for hides. But you had to show stewardship or a kind of animal husmandry. If you killed them all, then the cave men would move in and they were harder. so you always had ot leave one alive and let the respawns come. Likewise with the sonic-wolf/owl-bear/grimling wars in shadeweavers thicket.
My example of random: GM events where - Gm's as high level Pirates raid the newbie city and kill all the newbies. All the newbies cry, but we eventually learn the lesson of it being a game, and dont take it so seriously and then see all the high level players come stomping in to fight the GM's. It became a spectacle, we were all huddling in a too-small crack in the wall and watched the fight in fear hoping it would end soon but rapt in attention. The dread we felt when all the higher level players died. The piratees also found us and dispacthed us- again!. The fear we had wondering if they really were gone? as we looted our corpses for the third time. Seriously, about an hour before we went out to hunt. But we neverforgot it! And we heard again when the pirates raided another city and Uber Guild A dropped their raid- just walked out- and ran to the city and defeated the pirates! as we heard, and we saw the interesting unique things the guild looted. It made me want to be able to do that one day, and when a different event occured years later-I did!
And the Sleeper event. I mean, there was nothing more that made you seriously consider: how shall I align myself forever? from this point on? will it be Giants? Dragons? or Dwarves? I must say from then on, I could wander the westers wastes unmolested while hunting mind-worm hides and wyvernns, stroll right up to the necropolis ( although - because I was NOT a dragon slayer- I missed out on ZLANDICAR! quest, shoot, I was just answering honestly)
What you describe, Kilsin, sounds a little bit like the events in GW2. Can't recall what they were called there. They could start in different ways, for example by talking to NPCs, or killing certain mobs. A great example was a zone with an ongoing battle between centaurs and humans (iirc), where each side could eventually push the other out of certain areas or strongholds. Player actions could influence these events.
In general this was a quite dynamic and IMO very enjoyable system. Of course it was eventually repetitive, but you could spend some time following these events and watching their story unfold, before things repeated themselves. Some events were rare, and so it was nice even at higher levels to go back to try and trigger them (in GW2, your level adapted to the area you were in, so even a max level character could be low level again in the starter areas, although with much better gear giving them an advantage).
So yes, I would be happy to see something similar to this, as long as it isn't the main content. Sometimes you just want to hang out a little bit and exp with your group, and then those events are more an annoyance if they can break your camp.
Manouk said:I like random and predictable world events.
My example of predictable: There was a cave in Luclin that had rockhoppers and rockhopper hides were a good way to increase tailoring to a high level with a fairly simple recipe. So a bunch of us- sewing minded- would spend some time in those caves going for hides. But you had to show stewardship or a kind of animal husmandry. If you killed them all, then the cave men would move in and they were harder. so you always had ot leave one alive and let the respawns come. Likewise with the sonic-wolf/owl-bear/grimling wars in shadeweavers thicket.
My example of random: GM events where - Gm's as high level Pirates raid the newbie city and kill all the newbies. All the newbies cry, but we eventually learn the lesson of it being a game, and dont take it so seriously and then see all the high level players come stomping in to fight the GM's. It became a spectacle, we were all huddling in a too-small crack in the wall and watched the fight in fear hoping it would end soon but rapt in attention. The dread we felt when all the higher level players died. The piratees also found us and dispacthed us- again!. The fear we had wondering if they really were gone? as we looted our corpses for the third time. Seriously, about an hour before we went out to hunt. But we neverforgot it! And we heard again when the pirates raided another city and Uber Guild A dropped their raid- just walked out- and ran to the city and defeated the pirates! as we heard, and we saw the interesting unique things the guild looted. It made me want to be able to do that one day, and when a different event occured years later-I did!
And the Sleeper event. I mean, there was nothing more that made you seriously consider: how shall I align myself forever? from this point on? will it be Giants? Dragons? or Dwarves? I must say from then on, I could wander the westers wastes unmolested while hunting mind-worm hides and wyvernns, stroll right up to the necropolis ( although - because I was NOT a dragon slayer- I missed out on ZLANDICAR! quest, shoot, I was just answering honestly)
Nice examples Manouk! :)
Sarim said:What you describe, Kilsin, sounds a little bit like the events in GW2. Can't recall what they were called there. They could start in different ways, for example by talking to NPCs, or killing certain mobs. A great example was a zone with an ongoing battle between centaurs and humans (iirc), where each side could eventually push the other out of certain areas or strongholds. Player actions could influence these events.
In general this was a quite dynamic and IMO very enjoyable system. Of course it was eventually repetitive, but you could spend some time following these events and watching their story unfold, before things repeated themselves. Some events were rare, and so it was nice even at higher levels to go back to try and trigger them (in GW2, your level adapted to the area you were in, so even a max level character could be low level again in the starter areas, although with much better gear giving them an advantage).
So yes, I would be happy to see something similar to this, as long as it isn't the main content. Sometimes you just want to hang out a little bit and exp with your group, and then those events are more an annoyance if they can break your camp.
Actually, you are pretty spot on, it would be kind of similar to GW2 events but in a more immersive way and wider range of events, happening a lot less frequently, making them more exciting and unique when one does happen for you :)
Random/Predictable world events, YES please.
Random events help increase immersion and longevity of a game. Playing through a zone and triggering an event is a fun sometimes painful surpise. To me it means the devs took some extra time to plan out and think of how encounters can play out and it deserves bonus respect. It also makes repeating content with alts more fun as there is the potential for random differences in gameplay.
Predictable events should be used more for spawing world bosses and chaining quests. You want the goblin king to show up; kill fifty goblins and his three warlords within a set time limit. You want to start your epic staff quest; bring this rare loot drop to the witch who inhabits the swamp, but she will only accept it at night when you have to battle through ghosts to get to her.
It is this attention to detail that a lot of games are lacking now. They have taken the rpg out of mmorpg by focusing on action shots and quickly moving from one kill to the next requiring little to no thought from the player.
Amsai said: I would prefer predictable world events like in those from Rift or GW2. However like only every 2-3 hours and like 1 per zone not like 20 different ones at any given time 24/7. Any rare and randomized events I would prefer to be GM sponsored and GM controlled (GM takes control of dragon and goes berzerk in a town). And making it that much better because its not just AI. For the regular events Id want some kind of incentive that is attractive to participate (faction, quest trigger, etc but not xp or loot). For GM events Id rather it use negative re enforcement. Like if you dont kill the dragon NPCs in that town are not useable until it is cleared
I agree that too often is bad, and GM events are awesome :)
Azotate said:Random/Predictable world events, YES please.
Random events help increase immersion and longevity of a game. Playing through a zone and triggering an event is a fun sometimes painful surpise. To me it means the devs took some extra time to plan out and think of how encounters can play out and it deserves bonus respect. It also makes repeating content with alts more fun as there is the potential for random differences in gameplay.
Predictable events should be used more for spawing world bosses and chaining quests. You want the goblin king to show up; kill fifty goblins and his three warlords within a set time limit. You want to start your epic staff quest; bring this rare loot drop to the witch who inhabits the swamp, but she will only accept it at night when you have to battle through ghosts to get to her.
It is this attention to detail that a lot of games are lacking now. They have taken the rpg out of mmorpg by focusing on action shots and quickly moving from one kill to the next requiring little to no thought from the player.
Yeah, I agree Azotate, nice examples ;)
Kilsin said:See my above example posted in reply to Tuhart :)
It would be a % chance, a very low one, if you went back 100 more times, it may never occur again for you, making them truly immersive random world events or it may not happen for you in the first place and it happens to someone else, making for a great story that makes you want to check it out ;)
This is excellent and would be a wonderful feature... This is EXACTLY the kind of dynamic environment I would love to immerse myself in. You nailed it when you said rare chance!!
Pyye said:Kilsin said:See my above example posted in reply to Tuhart :)
It would be a % chance, a very low one, if you went back 100 more times, it may never occur again for you, making them truly immersive random world events or it may not happen for you in the first place and it happens to someone else, making for a great story that makes you want to check it out ;)
This is excellent and would be a wonderful feature... This is EXACTLY the kind of dynamic environment I would love to immerse myself in. You nailed it when you said rare chance!!
Agreed!
agreed.
I found the GW2 style very "gimicky" and tbh not entirely fun due to the zerg fest that ensued.
FFXIVARR - had similar predictable events and these were often used purely to lvl your additional classes.
Rift - came close to having the best approach for random zone based events tied to the general premise of the game. The issue was/is that you can have events proc that have no players attend. And while the minions of the water plane then take over the zone - there is no real impact. Not sure how to balance, but i would expect that zone events must have consequence and enough consequence that makes players believe they have to help otherwise they, their guild, or their faction will be disadvantaged in some way.
Nothing worse than being the only character attempting to fight of the denizens of evil while others just walk by picking herbs :)
@Kilsin - i love the idea
On this topic I like to think about the Hollowshade Moor zone event in EQ1, while I do think most of the content in Luclin was lacking compared to previous expansions, I did very much enjoy the 3 way war that was going on in that zone, and how you could poke and prod it into changing the entire zone. If you killed a lot of owlbears when the wolves were attacking you could maybe get them to kill the king owlbear and transfer zone control to the wolves, which in turn spawned wolf nameds at each cave or encampment that had different loot tables. This was interchangable between the 3 factions.
I like things like that, and I thought it was one of the best parts about Luclin. I would however note that most of my time on live I never saw many people interacting with it, probably because mostly there was only 1-2 good items and they both came from leaving the same faction in control... brain fart by sony.
Also I would like to note that while random may seem like a good idea, it is only good if the random possibilities for such randomness contain as much thought and effort put into them as something that would not be random. I feel random events in games these days tend to be computer generated and bland or garbage in comparison to human made content.
Pyye said:Kilsin said:See my above example posted in reply to Tuhart :)
It would be a % chance, a very low one, if you went back 100 more times, it may never occur again for you, making them truly immersive random world events or it may not happen for you in the first place and it happens to someone else, making for a great story that makes you want to check it out ;)
This is excellent and would be a wonderful feature... This is EXACTLY the kind of dynamic environment I would love to immerse myself in. You nailed it when you said rare chance!!
Absolutely mate, this would be my perfect dynamic feature too :)
Driven said:Both would be good great to be honest but at a lower frequency than some newer games to make them more looked for. I like your examples too Kilsin very cool ideas. :)
Yeah, too often makes them feel predictable in a way and they have more of an impact if they happen less often in my opinion :)
Narben4 said:agreed.
I found the GW2 style very "gimicky" and tbh not entirely fun due to the zerg fest that ensued.
FFXIVARR - had similar predictable events and these were often used purely to lvl your additional classes.
Rift - came close to having the best approach for random zone based events tied to the general premise of the game. The issue was/is that you can have events proc that have no players attend. And while the minions of the water plane then take over the zone - there is no real impact. Not sure how to balance, but i would expect that zone events must have consequence and enough consequence that makes players believe they have to help otherwise they, their guild, or their faction will be disadvantaged in some way.
Nothing worse than being the only character attempting to fight of the denizens of evil while others just walk by picking herbs :)
@Kilsin - i love the idea
I agree with you examples Narben, although Rifts Rift events seemed to happen to often for my liking but dropping that % chance to trigger down by a lot I think would make it much more exciting and memorable when they did happen :)
Rallyd said:On this topic I like to think about the Hollowshade Moor zone event in EQ1, while I do think most of the content in Luclin was lacking compared to previous expansions, I did very much enjoy the 3 way war that was going on in that zone, and how you could poke and prod it into changing the entire zone. If you killed a lot of owlbears when the wolves were attacking you could maybe get them to kill the king owlbear and transfer zone control to the wolves, which in turn spawned wolf nameds at each cave or encampment that had different loot tables. This was interchangable between the 3 factions.
I like things like that, and I thought it was one of the best parts about Luclin. I would however note that most of my time on live I never saw many people interacting with it, probably because mostly there was only 1-2 good items and they both came from leaving the same faction in control... brain fart by sony.
Also I would like to note that while random may seem like a good idea, it is only good if the random possibilities for such randomness contain as much thought and effort put into them as something that would not be random. I feel random events in games these days tend to be computer generated and bland or garbage in comparison to human made content.
That is another cool example mate and I agree about random events not feeling random at all these days, I think lowering the % chance by a much larger margin to make them almost rare would enhance the experience when they do trigger and it would generate some great stories within the community :)
I agree with you examples Narben, although Rifts Rift events seemed to happen to often for my liking but dropping that % chance to trigger down by a lot I think would make it much more exciting and memorable when they did happen :)
agreed and should have included that impending doom should only occur rarely!