Forums » The Shaman

Cannibalize

    • 22 posts
    November 13, 2015 6:18 PM PST

    One of the things that made the EQ shaman interesting to me (aside from its hybrid nature) is how active it was.  Rather than just sit on your butt you could use canni to regen mana quicker, and if you wanted to get real crazy you could canni dance to get even more.  It would be great if that active play style was preserved for Pantheon's shaman, and perhaps extended to more abilities.  Cannibalizing all the way down to 25% HP or lower can create some really fun, tense moments, but what if there were similar mechanics that allowed a shaman to buff or debuff enemies at some sort of personal cost other than mana?  Maybe that cost is HP, maybe it's something else.  If it's HP, maybe some effects are heightened depending on how much health you're missing.  Just a thought.

    • Moderator
    • 6970 posts
    November 13, 2015 9:51 PM PST

    We had similar versions of this in VG too for our Shaman class, it was awesome and added a lot to the class especially trying to micro-manage it while doing a dungeon run, fighting a named or raiding, it just added that extra element that I really enjoyed :)

    • 21 posts
    November 21, 2015 12:01 PM PST

    I played a shammy in VG too loved it and if theres a combo of both games ill be playing another shammy for sure. Don't make their spells the dearest in game like they were in EQ1 please ;)


    This post was edited by Asbo at November 21, 2015 12:01 PM PST
    • 692 posts
    November 25, 2015 3:22 PM PST

    The EQ1 shaman was, hands down, the best class in that game.  I always choose Shaman classes if they are available but so far none of them have been as exciting, interesting and useful as the EQ1 Shaman.

    • 102 posts
    January 12, 2016 5:06 PM PST

    I loved my shaman in EQ1, until groups were not so nice when the BST came out.

    I do like the idea of trading some life to place a hex on a mob or something.

    Frankly there was also something about giving a full set of buffs to someone.  It wasn't like throwing a shield and thorns and that was it... It was filling their buff window with candy... and they loved you for it!  A mechanic that you can cast buffs for donations is also a fantastic way to make coin... so please don't lock buffs to group members only like some not so nice games have done!

    • 13 posts
    January 14, 2016 1:32 PM PST

    I too played an EQ1 Shaman as my main and one of its 'sooper powahs' was being able to go toe to toe with big baddies while using Canni and torpor to stay alive and out last the baddie...


    Lodizal still trembles with fear when I zone into Iceclad!

     

     

    Ummie

    • 36 posts
    March 16, 2016 10:01 PM PDT

    Just dial up the mana returned, the HP taken and the recast time.

     

    I can still hear the sound effects from casting cannibalism 15 years ago

    • 1 posts
    January 12, 2017 11:54 AM PST

    Thunndar said:

    Just dial up the mana returned, the HP taken and the recast time.

     

    I can still hear the sound effects from casting cannibalism 15 years ago

     

    Early ranks of the spells were small amounts. But I recall that level cap versions were more like what you're talking about. Big HP chunks, less "dancing". Although, if you did the dance, I think it turned out to be more mana in the same amount of time. You could sneak one or two in during combat to get one more heal/dot/dd off. You exchange versatility and more active button pressing for , lets say, 80% efficiency and less button pressing.

    • 297 posts
    January 19, 2017 3:28 PM PST

    Take half my health, give me back a fourth of my mana--or whatever. Just don't force me to cast Cannibalize 30 times in 2 minutes.

    • 692 posts
    January 19, 2017 8:31 PM PST

    Anistosoles said:

    Take half my health, give me back a fourth of my mana--or whatever. Just don't force me to cast Cannibalize 30 times in 2 minutes.

    I too didn't really love Canni until I got into the 50's because early on the ratios were terrible.  Canni 1 was 0.66:1, Canni 2 at 0.70:1 and Canni 3 was no more efficient than Canni 2.  Canni IV capped out at 0.90:1.  The only really good Canni was the AA ability.

    I wouldn't mind seeing a Canni more like the EQ1 necro Lich line...a continuous decrease in HP with a continuous increase in Mana.  Their form was nearly 1:1 even in the early levels rising to 1:1.2 in the 70s+. 

    • 297 posts
    February 17, 2017 1:04 PM PST

    Vandraad said:

    Anistosoles said:

    Take half my health, give me back a fourth of my mana--or whatever. Just don't force me to cast Cannibalize 30 times in 2 minutes.

    I too didn't really love Canni until I got into the 50's because early on the ratios were terrible.  Canni 1 was 0.66:1, Canni 2 at 0.70:1 and Canni 3 was no more efficient than Canni 2.  Canni IV capped out at 0.90:1.  The only really good Canni was the AA ability.

    I wouldn't mind seeing a Canni more like the EQ1 necro Lich line...a continuous decrease in HP with a continuous increase in Mana.  Their form was nearly 1:1 even in the early levels rising to 1:1.2 in the 70s+. 

     

    Sounds good!

    • 46 posts
    March 20, 2017 7:06 AM PDT
    One of my favorite features of the Shaman from EQ. I will be very happy to see this in Pantheon.
    • 2262 posts
    March 20, 2017 7:24 AM PDT

    I think it's a great ability. Pretty much the definition of Risk vs. Reward. But I also retain the possibility that Shamans will not have canni in Pantheon. *gasp* I know. Or maybe it will just be slightly different and with a different name. To me, Shamans in Terminus seem more like Seers and less like tribal witch doctors. This is part of the reason why I think Elves can be Shamans. They are focused more on seeing the past, present, and future. It's less about primitive rituals and fetishes. Now that's not to say they won't have some ability that costs hp to regen mana. I think it's a great mechanic. But I think it will be stylized a little differently to fit the different identity of the Shaman. I could be wrong, but that's my gut reaction.

    • 297 posts
    March 20, 2017 2:45 PM PDT

    Bazgrim said:

    I think it's a great ability. Pretty much the definition of Risk vs. Reward. But I also retain the possibility that Shamans will not have canni in Pantheon. *gasp* I know. Or maybe it will just be slightly different and with a different name. To me, Shamans in Terminus seem more like Seers and less like tribal witch doctors. This is part of the reason why I think Elves can be Shamans. They are focused more on seeing the past, present, and future. It's less about primitive rituals and fetishes. Now that's not to say they won't have some ability that costs hp to regen mana. I think it's a great mechanic. But I think it will be stylized a little differently to fit the different identity of the Shaman. I could be wrong, but that's my gut reaction.

    I certainly see your point, but cannibalize for a shaman in a game that is "the spirit, if not the essence, of EQ1" is a must. 

    Give me cannibalize, or give me death!

     

    Can I trademark that for us shamans?

    • 692 posts
    March 20, 2017 5:53 PM PDT

    Anistosoles said:

    I certainly see your point, but cannibalize for a shaman in a game that is "the spirit, if not the essence, of EQ1" is a must. 

    Give me cannibalize, or give me death!

     

    Can I trademark that for us shamans?

    Give me cananbilizie so I can give myself death?

    • 79 posts
    March 22, 2017 8:30 AM PDT

    Anistosoles said:

    Take half my health, give me back a fourth of my mana--or whatever. Just don't force me to cast Cannibalize 30 times in 2 minutes.

    Would love to see a canni ability, but more on the order of this quote from Anistosoles or as Bazgrim put it, "stylized a little differently".

    • 692 posts
    May 13, 2017 7:21 PM PDT

    msk12 said:

    Anistosoles said:

    Take half my health, give me back a fourth of my mana--or whatever. Just don't force me to cast Cannibalize 30 times in 2 minutes.

    Would love to see a canni ability, but more on the order of this quote from Anistosoles or as Bazgrim put it, "stylized a little differently".

    I've been thinking about this for quite some time now, this idea of cannibalization yet stylized differently and came up with a few ideas.

    First would be a short extension of the spell in that instead of a single pulse, it is a multi-pulse effect somewhat like a DoT.  You still start off with a relatively inefficient HP:Mana ratio but where you needed to cast the EQ1 canni 3-4 times you would get the same return with just 2 casts of the multi-pulse version in slightly less time.  As you get higher versions over time, many things about the spell can change, most notably the HP/Mana ratio and also the number of pulses.

    The other version, and the one I'd love to see implemented, is as a buff.  So long as the buff is active, we continually convert HP to Mana.  EQ1 players will immediately say "hey, that is the necro spell line Lich" and they would be right but it doesn't matter because both spells did the same thing, coverting the caster's own HP into Mana.  Hurting themselves to help themselves.  I don't see why the Shaman couldn't enter into a state where they continually convert their health into mana.

    • 455 posts
    May 14, 2017 9:47 AM PDT

    Vandraad said:

    msk12 said:

    Anistosoles said:

    Take half my health, give me back a fourth of my mana--or whatever. Just don't force me to cast Cannibalize 30 times in 2 minutes.

    Would love to see a canni ability, but more on the order of this quote from Anistosoles or as Bazgrim put it, "stylized a little differently".

    I've been thinking about this for quite some time now, this idea of cannibalization yet stylized differently and came up with a few ideas.

    First would be a short extension of the spell in that instead of a single pulse, it is a multi-pulse effect somewhat like a DoT.  You still start off with a relatively inefficient HP:Mana ratio but where you needed to cast the EQ1 canni 3-4 times you would get the same return with just 2 casts of the multi-pulse version in slightly less time.  As you get higher versions over time, many things about the spell can change, most notably the HP/Mana ratio and also the number of pulses.

    The other version, and the one I'd love to see implemented, is as a buff.  So long as the buff is active, we continually convert HP to Mana.  EQ1 players will immediately say "hey, that is the necro spell line Lich" and they would be right but it doesn't matter because both spells did the same thing, coverting the caster's own HP into Mana.  Hurting themselves to help themselves.  I don't see why the Shaman couldn't enter into a state where they continually convert their health into mana.

    It could work and its fine by me but the one i dont agree with is the 50% hp to 25% mana instantly after cast can become very powerful, and depending of what heal spells the shaman can acquire like Topor in EQ they could get it all back in one HoT with almost no mana usage so therefore be able to cast spells like hes handing out candy on halloween.

    • 8 posts
    May 15, 2017 6:53 PM PDT

    Loved canabilize and cana-dancing.

     

    Also fire dancing with inner fire.  always had to explain to the lowbies it was like a HOT...also cleric stop casting your sheild spell....they don't stack!

     

    -Chris

    • 3 posts
    June 22, 2017 5:51 PM PDT

    I think making it a dot, or something you toggle on/off would kind of defeat the purpose at least in part.

    One of the things that (to me) make the EQ shaman class so unique with canni is that it _is_ very active. If you're not micromanaging your canni and server tick regen you're not getting as much mana as you can. It can be annoying at times and the lower ranks of canni are definitely obnoxious but making it something you simply cast with a cooldown to regain a big chunk of mana isn't really making the class more active.

    There's other ways that this could still be achieved (keeping the activity). Having a low ratio conversion spell isn't exactly interesting. You just have to hit a sequence of buttons on a timer. However that's pretty much most class mechanics when you boil it down to basics.

    Others I believe mentioned finding a good spot for this. I imagine it's difficult to balance as well. Crank the ratio up too high and you're providing more power to the class through resource generation. Keeping it too low makes it unfun and borderline useless.

    • 297 posts
    August 11, 2017 3:28 PM PDT

    elebertus said:

    I think making it a dot, or something you toggle on/off would kind of defeat the purpose at least in part.

    One of the things that (to me) make the EQ shaman class so unique with canni is that it _is_ very active. If you're not micromanaging your canni and server tick regen you're not getting as much mana as you can. It can be annoying at times and the lower ranks of canni are definitely obnoxious but making it something you simply cast with a cooldown to regain a big chunk of mana isn't really making the class more active.

    There's other ways that this could still be achieved (keeping the activity). Having a low ratio conversion spell isn't exactly interesting. You just have to hit a sequence of buttons on a timer. However that's pretty much most class mechanics when you boil it down to basics.

    Others I believe mentioned finding a good spot for this. I imagine it's difficult to balance as well. Crank the ratio up too high and you're providing more power to the class through resource generation. Keeping it too low makes it unfun and borderline useless.

    Not a DOT, per se, but something better than "Cast Cannibalize every 5 seconds and watch your HPs drop a bit and you mana go up by a lesser margin?" I dunno, I loved the canni-dancing, but it got old after awhile.