Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

Appearance Gear and Weapons

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    • 1921 posts
    September 6, 2016 10:32 PM PDT

    There's trivial technology solutions that make everyone happy.

    On the client have two options.

    1) allow me to see or not everyone elses appearance slots.  If I choose not to see appearance slots, show me what the real pieces of armor look like.

    2) allow me to see or not hidden slots.  If a person has their helm hidden on their client because they like to see their facial tattoos, great, show me that.  If not, on my client show me their real armor piece.

    That's it.  That's all you have to do.  Then if you want to see what they're really wearing, you can.  If you want to see their appearance slots, you can.  If you want to see what slots they have flagged as hidden (helms, shoulders, gloves, etc) you can.

    There's no downside.  Everyone wins.  Everyone dresses as they wish, and everyone gets to see what they wish.

    • 2756 posts
    September 7, 2016 1:51 AM PDT

    vjek said: There's trivial technology solutions that make everyone happy.

    I understand how that might seem the answer, but at least half the point of how we want to look is how we want others to see us.  For some that's the whole point.  If people can choose to see us in some other way, then it's pointless having 'a look'.

    • 2756 posts
    September 7, 2016 2:59 AM PDT

    I'm going to repeat my point here.  It's a bit of a forum sin, I know, but this is surprisingly important to me.

    Everyone strives for 'the best' armor in RPGs.  In Dungeons & Dragons it was just stats on paper and we were still all excited by "Plate + 2" when we had "Plate + 1".

    When EQ came around, getting better gear was very exciting.  Not only a 'power up' but a new look in 3D!  BUT I cannot count the times I slotted the gear and thought "omfg that's ugly" and it totally took away from the achievement for me.  Every time I caught sight of myself I would sigh and frown.  I would see items others had looted and note how ugly they were and not want to get them whether they were 'better' or not.

    Fast-forward to early Lord of the Rings online: Get exciting new loot?  Upset with the hideous way it looks?  Just stick with the look of an item you already earned and wore.  Perfect.  Like the look of an item someone else uses?  Go get it and put it in your wardrobe (only if you can actually wear that type).  Perfect.

    Noone can wear anything inappropriate.  Everyone slowly develops a look they are happy with.  Noone is 'forced' to wear stuff they find ugly.

    Fast forward to Rift and you can cash purchase ridiculous outfits... Argh. Concept ruined. MMORPGs destroyed forever.

    • 839 posts
    September 7, 2016 5:23 AM PDT

    Not a fan of appearance items at all.  Various outifts of course, but you lose one stat to wear another...

    If you loot orc skin pants and they are green and they have great stats except you dont like green going with your red chest piece then next time you bump into a person wearing red pants ask him/her where they came from and work your way to making that loot your next goal.  Will we next be able to turn a sword into a mace because we like the look of maces?   God i hope not

    When i had a monk i just wanted to wear Gi's all the time but when better gear came along i took it and wore it and it grew on me, however the hunger to find the next Gi grew more and it drove me to fight hard and long to aquire the next one which would also give me great stats, so if you want black pants to go along with your red chest piece you will have to work for it I say :)

    I dont think Aradune wants to have a hundred copies of him running around in all his green glory unless they underwent the same challenge to get that status which comes with the look of top tier equipment.

    • 243 posts
    September 7, 2016 7:05 AM PDT

    I didn't see that Kilsin had asked this question a long time ago, so I feel I need to get my vote in here.  I also support some sort of appearance gear slot or ability such as dyeing to customize my look, I think any game at this point should have this sort of feature.  In EQ it took me till level 55 with Veeshans gear to actually have a matching set of armor, stats always being more important than look.  It is 2016, and the availability of better graphics and tools makes me want more at this point.  I do not want immersion breaking outfits or ridiculous fluff items, but I do want to look good.  I don't want my character to look like I fell into an armory, rolled around for a while, and then went to adventure.  I understand the other side of the argument, just my 2c :)

    • 1921 posts
    September 7, 2016 8:49 AM PDT

    disposalist said:

    vjek said: There's trivial technology solutions that make everyone happy.

    I understand how that might seem the answer, but at least half the point of how we want to look is how we want others to see us.  For some that's the whole point.  If people can choose to see us in some other way, then it's pointless having 'a look'.

    Yep, I understand that perspective.  My response is based on the premise that appearance slots are going to be in Pantheon. It's also important that the "some other way" is one of two ways.  Either what's in your appearance slots (and set visible), or not.  Real gear, or not.  That's it.  So, they can choose to see you in one of two ways that you appear.  If you don't use appearance slots?  They see your real gear.  Again, no downside.

    If appearance slots are going to be in Pantheon, then at least having the option to see the real gear and/or the appearance slots at all makes sense to me.
    If appearance slots aren't going to be in Pantheon, well... that would be an unfortunate oversight given the standard "flavor" feature set of most modern games, in my opinion.

    I completely understand the desire to return to a social shared gaming environment that some refer to as "hardcore".  Having to earn your gear through a shared social endurance test, to many, is a hallmark of personal prestige.  I also understand that, been there, done it, have the t-shirt.
    However, the reality is, client graphics settings are going to alter how you appear to others.  Let's say the standard litany of graphics options are available to enable or disable.  Bump mapping.  Specular.  AA.  Filtering.  Bloom. HDR.  Shadows.  Texture quality. Level of Detail, whatever. 
    If I turn all that off, your armor is going to look almost unrecognizable compared to when that's all enabled.
    I realize that's not the intent of what you're describing, but if you agree that the client, by design, can alter your appearance considerably in this fashion, then the next step is understanding that the client, on someone elses computer, can alter your appearance in ANY way the owner of that client is inclined to adjust, even beyond the standard graphics settings.

    • 334 posts
    September 7, 2016 9:53 AM PDT

    If there will be some type of appearance slot system in the game, being able to view the real piece of armor through an inspect option seems ideal to me. I don't agree with any type of client side option that explicitly enables you to bypass someone's appearance choices, as controlling how our characters appear to others is a pretty core thing in my opinion.

    When I inspect someone, however, I'd definitely like to see the actual gear below that appearance slot.

    Appearance armor seems to be less immersion breaking for me than appearance weapons, and at this point I would probably lean towards saying "no" to appearance weapon slots. I remain ambivalent regarding appearance armor slots (or some type of transmog system).

    Note: My stance regarding this assumes that there is no in-game cash shop selling appearance items or any other actual gear. I only believe an appearance slot or transmog system should work with gear you have obtained through playing the content.

    • 1399 posts
    September 7, 2016 9:56 AM PDT
    I would prefer we "wear what we loot". No apperant slots, no tinting. If we choose to wear something else then we need to go loot or craft something else. Getting gear is what a good portion of the game is about is it not. Stats and appearance. Why would we take the appearance portion away, for some it's as strong of a motavatier as that one extra INT or STR....
    We're not planning on taking those out of the equation as well are we?
    • 86 posts
    September 7, 2016 11:47 AM PDT

    This thread sure got a big bump....  :)

    As to appearance gear... Please no!

    I agree with what Brad said in his AMA.... The appearance of gear should tell you stuff.

    1. Approx. level
    2. Accomplishments
    3. Class

    With a lvl 50 Warrior looking like they are wearing a string bikini when they have full T6 raid gear on, you have no idea what that person is or how high level they are.


    This post was edited by Koreno at September 7, 2016 11:47 AM PDT
    • 86 posts
    September 7, 2016 12:25 PM PDT

    No to appearance slots or costumes or anything that changes the appearance of an already existing item.  No to anything emmersion breaking like a Santa hat or halloween costumes.

    If appearance gear was actual gear with charisma and or faction bonuses or modifiers that you equip in place of ordinary gear then I would be fine with that, so long as it doesnt deviate from the era or lore of Pantheon.


    This post was edited by Greattaste at September 7, 2016 12:52 PM PDT
    • 105 posts
    September 7, 2016 2:53 PM PDT

    I'm fine with no appearance gear or being able to completely swap the look of the item you are wearing with something else.

    I would however like to be able to customize my gear to a certain extent if it is realistic to do so. Such as adding decoration to a piece of armour whether that be dyes, a painted on design or adding things like metal skulls or fabric tassels. I just think it would be cool that you could design a pattern which identifies your guild and then have your guild members paint it onto their shields or chest piece or cloak etc.

    It would be nice to be able to have a certain look, something like the Knight of the Blood guild from Sword Art Online which immeditaly identifies your guild...

     


    This post was edited by Kipling at September 7, 2016 2:54 PM PDT
    • 1434 posts
    September 7, 2016 3:32 PM PDT

    As I said previously in the thread, I think dyes are great with some exceptions. It seems to me that people who oppose dyes or modifying armor have a dated perception of video game assets. This isn't 1999 when every metal breastplate has to look exactly the same. Giving different pieces of armor different designs or ornamentation is much easier now. We no longer have to expect everything to look the same with only a different color. Not to mention unique particle effects particular armors or weapons may have. As such, these pieces of armor will still be recognizable, even if you change the color.

    Now I do think that a piece of armor like Aradune's "Crimson Breastplate" should retain its color. Something like a rubicite breastplate should remain a ruby red color. But I at least hope that we won't have to worry about every piece of gear of any material looking exactly the same with only a different color. Not in 2016.

    • 234 posts
    September 7, 2016 5:25 PM PDT

    So why not get choice of variation within a particular design?

    I personally like to know somones accomplishements, class level etc by just looking at their gear. 

    So why not allow an armor set have a certain design to it, but with crafting/slotting you can adjust its particles and or patterns, along with its stats - which in themselves give furthar indication of accomplishment through a particular armor set; and whatever else that may imply. 

    This could provide both the variation and the visual feedback appropriate to a game trying to get back to its roots.

    My 2cp

    -Az

     

    • 93 posts
    September 8, 2016 3:46 AM PDT

    I have not read all this thread, it's late and it's a bit long now  :-P .  I started a thread regarding item durability and decay.  Part of the ideas I presented was in regards to being able to remove the essence (abilities & benefits) from a magical item.  The thread can be found here if you're interested.  It has lead me to make this suggestion regarding appearance:

    Item Essences
    In my OP I brought up the idea of being able to take the essence of an item and then imbue a new item with that essense thereby keeping your precious items abilities and benefits. I would not want anyone to permanently lose an item they fought hard and long for. No one would like that. This idea gave me another thought and relates to another thread that has been active. Gear appearance.

    Having the ability to remove the essence from your special gear and then imbuing a new item with it could allow players to modifty their appearance without needing an appearance tab. It could be another thing that requires some money spent through npc's and/or players to do this.

    I know there is a strong contingent here that is against appearance adjustment because the gear appearance you receive needs to mean something. When you see player X run by with his Two Handed Maul of Titan Tripping you would know that player X had been over to certain location and fought some hard battles. So this is just a thought as I'm still on the fence regarding appearance adjustment.  I think I'm mostly against an appearance tab, as long as the gear in the game is designed well and makes sense.  

    *salute*

    ~~~ <()> ~~~
    Valor and virtue ride with me, my blade defends the helpless, 
    my might upholds the weak, my words speak only truth, 
    my wrath undoes the wicked!
    <~ Vaultarn Stormborn ~>


    This post was edited by Vaultarn at September 8, 2016 3:47 AM PDT
    • 432 posts
    September 8, 2016 10:37 AM PDT

    Interesting idea. But I think I would hear another group say depending upon the rarity not all of the stats can be transposed. This is to reward those who choose to use the true appearance of the gear. I for one am preparing for the worst. Meaning I will sacrifice my stats to wear gear that looks good rather than look what I would call 'like a clown'. -Todd


    This post was edited by tehtawd at February 11, 2017 9:35 PM PST
    • 243 posts
    September 8, 2016 12:25 PM PDT

    LoL Todd, me too.  My cleric in EQ had on pee yellow armor till they came out with slot dyes, I thought it was the greatest thing ever.  That pee yellow armor turned into a medium blue the first day :)  Being colorblind, certain color combinations just look awful to me, and many times I don't see them how they appear to everyone else.  It's one reason why I like blue, I can see it :)  I hope for SOME way to make myself match and change armor color, make it so I have to go to a crafter to do so if you must.  Widely varied armor choices would help in a big way, or perhaps when you go to equip an item you can choose from a variety of colors and styles to suit who your character is.  Once you choose, that look becomes permanent for that item.  Don't know if it's even possible, but it's food for thought :)

    • 86 posts
    September 8, 2016 12:35 PM PDT

    After reading even more thoughts on the subject after my last reply, I can see the attraction to having appearance slots and having the ability to make your armor look however you want. However, I do not want this in Pantheon. As I have said in others threads as wells as this one about this topic, I agree with Brad's AMA answer on this. 

    No Appearance Gear or transmogging. When I look at a player I want to be able to have an idea of what class they are, what level thay are, and say to myself.. "WOW! , that lucky guy got the Sword of Awesome Glowing Flames off Boss 1234"


    This post was edited by Koreno at September 8, 2016 12:37 PM PDT
    • 86 posts
    September 8, 2016 12:37 PM PDT

    Delete


    This post was edited by Koreno at September 8, 2016 12:37 PM PDT
    • 1921 posts
    September 8, 2016 1:21 PM PDT

    Koreno said:

    After reading even more thoughts on the subject after my last reply, I can see the attraction to having appearance slots and having the ability to make your armor look however you want. However, I do not want this in Pantheon. As I have said in others threads as wells as this one about this topic, I agree with Brad's AMA answer on this. 

    No Appearance Gear or transmogging. When I look at a player I want to be able to have an idea of what class they are, what level thay are, and say to myself.. "WOW! , that lucky guy got the Sword of Awesome Glowing Flames off Boss 1234"

    For reference, his response here, was:

    Q: Are there any plans to sell cosmetic armors and appearance gear, or will aesthetics always be tied to your in-game accomplishments?

    A: Uncertain as of yet. The only thing that's been decided that, in a combat region, the way you look will be based on the actual adventuring items you are wearing and wielding. We also want lower level players to encounter higher level players and see their amazing gear and to be inspired. If you can just willy nilly appear anyway you want, that inspiration, which is very important, can be impeded. To that end, there will probably be some restrictions as to where you can appear using your cosmetic gear.

    So, to me, that doesn't mean it's a 100% no consmetic/appearance slots/gear for Pantheon, at least as of 21 days ago. :)

     

    • 36 posts
    September 8, 2016 2:39 PM PDT

    If we're not getting custom appearance slots (which I'm on the fence either way on), I would like at least a 'plain' dye for each thing.  A plain metallic iron/steel type thing for chain/plate.  A simple Leather brown for that and whatever for the cloth.  Something to where we can at least match ourselves.  I remember having red BP, Bronze helm, Royal Blue gloves, Green boots, black arms, and grey legs or something like that for most of EQ before Dyes.  Rarely did you have a full set of the same thing. I don't really want to go running around looking like a rainbow.  I like the idea of seeing someone and knowing what they're using.  But, I do still want to look at least somewhat good.  Sure I might not always look the best I possibly could, but I could at least be acceptable.  I'd also say things like the Lambent armor for bards was a bit too flashy for my style, being able to drop to a more plain just metal would be something I might like to use sometimes.   If we do get this I would also like to be able to strip the dye and get the original color back though. 

     

    One small thing, Illusion bugging in EQ... it was fun, it allowed custom looks like robed DE illusioned Bards, or with the Luclin models Barbarians with hotpants >.<  not saying it should be added, but EQ did have our set of custom looks if you were willing to go to the trouble, a bug that was left alone until custom looks were put into the game I believe. 


    This post was edited by jerus at September 8, 2016 2:42 PM PDT
    • 8 posts
    September 8, 2016 3:12 PM PDT

    Hello everyone (and sorry for my bad english to come ^_^)

    I understand and agree when people doesn’t want costumes like Santa hat, smoking, beach underwear or halloween costume etc… because I don’t like when appearances doesn’t fit in the world design. It only breaks immersion and can be very annoying. But that doesn’t mean all concept of gear appearance should be trashed away.

    Why shouldn’t it be possible to use as appearance any gear you earned (loot, quest, etc…) and is related to your class, gear you have already wore ? It is items already in game, that fit the world design… For example, if at level 10 I have a nice full set armor, maybe I don’t want to be forced to show the new legs I just loot at level 15 with a very different design because it would ruin the entire armor set look. Armor that do not fit in the world design breaks immersion (ok on that); but armor pieces (patchwork like) that do not fit together breaks immersion as well. That is why I would like to have an appearance tab (like EQ2 for example).

    If some people cannot stand to not see the look decided by developer for my armor (and I honestly don't understand why me having one of my previous armor as appearance would impact their play time) why should I be forced to have my avatar with a look I hate because of them ? It is my avatar, I will see it all the time I will be playing ! lol And because artwork is by nature subjective, what a designer would find beautiful for end game armor, maybe I will find it absolutely ugly. If my appearence still fit in the world design, why other people would care so much of my appearence to force me to wear ugly armor pieces ? I don't get it...

    I think to please everyone, the best way would be to create a toggleButton option to disable appearances armor. This way, everybody will be happy ! :)

    • 68 posts
    September 8, 2016 3:37 PM PDT

    I, for one, do not care about immersion at all. I want to play a game to have fun and meet people. I am all for appearance items and hope to have a wide range of them available. Your accomplishments mean jack to me TBH. Just because you have a raid sword does not mean you are a good player or that you even tried hard for it. Showing up to a raid and earning DKP isnt an accomplishment. You could have easily been carried by the raid to get that item.

    If you really want items that show any accomplishment, then make the items that come from content only the top 1% of the guilds WW can clear. Or better yet, special effect items that only drop the first time a raid boss is killed.

    • 81 posts
    September 8, 2016 4:12 PM PDT

    Anasyn said:

    Lets not take a step backwards when a developer can easily create a solution that fits every bodies needs.

    The developers could create an option to view items people are wearing or their appearance slot. The user decides what gear they want to view. Kinda like using old Everquest models or the new Models it should be up to the user what they view.

     

     

    +1

     

    I agree with this.  Options are the greatest assetts to MMOs as long as they dont infringe upon each other and this is a great solotion that has been used in other games as well.

    • 86 posts
    September 9, 2016 6:13 AM PDT

    vjek said:

    Koreno said:

    After reading even more thoughts on the subject after my last reply, I can see the attraction to having appearance slots and having the ability to make your armor look however you want. However, I do not want this in Pantheon. As I have said in others threads as wells as this one about this topic, I agree with Brad's AMA answer on this. 

    No Appearance Gear or transmogging. When I look at a player I want to be able to have an idea of what class they are, what level thay are, and say to myself.. "WOW! , that lucky guy got the Sword of Awesome Glowing Flames off Boss 1234"

    For reference, his response here, was:

    Q: Are there any plans to sell cosmetic armors and appearance gear, or will aesthetics always be tied to your in-game accomplishments?

    A: Uncertain as of yet. The only thing that's been decided that, in a combat region, the way you look will be based on the actual adventuring items you are wearing and wielding. We also want lower level players to encounter higher level players and see their amazing gear and to be inspired. If you can just willy nilly appear anyway you want, that inspiration, which is very important, can be impeded. To that end, there will probably be some restrictions as to where you can appear using your cosmetic gear.

    So, to me, that doesn't mean it's a 100% no consmetic/appearance slots/gear for Pantheon, at least as of 21 days ago. :)

     

    I stand corrected... I did not mean to mislead anyone. I should probably read more carefully. However, my opinion remains the same. I am not for the inclusion of appearance gear unless it can be done to with limits to not allow people wearing full combat gear to look as though they are wearing a Bikini. I also like to be able to look at a player and visually see an indication of their accomplishments and progression.

    You walk into a town and see a guy on a horse with the really cool looking sword on his back. So you strike up a conversation (#communitymatters) and he tells you where he got it. Now you have a new goal and something to strive for. But if this swird was an appearance item, half the server will have it by next week.

    • 432 posts
    September 9, 2016 8:37 AM PDT

    My toons have many sets I pour money into for the purposes of appearance gear. Appearance gear in my view enables more people to want the gear they see. This literally happened to me yesterday. Somebody was wearing a cloak with the perfect color combination for the set I was wearing. I asked him about it. Due to stats inflating as you level up, some of the more unique weapons and armor will be obsolete. Appearance gear enables more for people to see.

    I AM a person who spends their time collecting appearance items. It takes a lot of time and it's worth it. Showing off rare and powerful gear is fun. Just because gear isn't best in slot doesn't mean it's useless. Looks are more important than numbers to me. And if a rare lvl 20 sword is better looking than a lvl 50 sword I got, I'm going to want to use it's appearance. Players will still ask where i found it -Todd


    This post was edited by tehtawd at February 11, 2017 9:36 PM PST