I have to say if someone was able to have the same name as me that would be a major issue with me. I play games under all different sorts of names and have no real affection for any of them in particular, but I would not want anyone to be the same name as any one that I choose.
As far as making it easier on CS... my advice for those people who can't get their chosen name would be to find a new name and get over it.. it's not the name that makes the person, it's what's behind the monitor/mic.
I like the alias idea. Looking at it from a social dynamic perspective; a group of people interacting towards/in a collective goal/environment will , over time, create nicknames or aliases for their peers. A good example is a sports team, or military squad. Exceptional situations surrounding the unique identifiers or nicknames are often the result of a mundane or banal one-time event in the group that sticks and also serves to unify the team because it is not worth explaining to an outsider- causing it to have more perceived importance. A good example is an Ex-Center for the Jacksonville Jaguars that was nicknamed "pot-roast". No one knew why, but as a fan looking at the team and knowing the center is normally a larger person and to hear him called "pot-roast" is instantly endearing. It turns out on a away game flight, he was the only one that ordered Pot-roast *shrug* and it stuck.
Kilsin said:
Just to clear up any confusion, as I mentioned above, VG had unique first names, so no one had the same first name, which meant /tells and messaging were issue free.
You would have the choice of using a last name or leaving it blank from character creation but once that decision was made, you were stuck with it. (GM would do a one time change if you asked nicely)
Of course VG also used titles that I enjoyed a lot, they were earned, or basic ones bought from a Npc vendor but it would be nice if these were more difficult to obtain.
Thanks for clearing that up. That's how I remembered it being. I played on the Tharridon PvP server and at launch someone stole our guild leader's character's name. He decided to spell his original name backwards for his vanguard character.
Despite the potential issues with a desired character name being taken, I still am for the EQ1 and VG system of unique first names. Perhaps that is just because I haven't seen this new system yet and I am reluctant for change. Who knows :).
I can see needing this new system of unique first and last names if the servers held a ton of players. Like in Darkfall, they had only one server for everyone. But in most MMO's there are like 10 or 20 servers, which if that is the case in Pantheon, I would stick with the old naming system.
I made a poll on the topic of unique names a while ago (https://www.pantheonrotf.com/polls/view/228/are-unique-char-names-a-must). It seems pretty clear that the community here wants unique (first) names.
Personally I wouldn't mind duplicate names, as long as there is a good way to tell players apart still (unique surnames, alias etc).
Joppa said:
For me, this issue will likely be a, "Let's try some different things in Alpha/Beta and see how the majority feel". I understand the concern about players being unhappy they didn't get their name (I've felt the pain of that at times as well). However, the "solution" being to allow 10 Joppa's to run around in the world as long as they have different last names (exaggeration I know) is more experience/immersion breaking for me personally.
You also run into the issue of having to remember a player's first and last names if you want to communicate with them. If I want to send Jason a tell, and he's the only "Jason" on at the time, I can /tell Jason no probs. But the next day, when there are 3 players named "Jason" online, suddenly I can't send Jason a /tell, realizing I have to know Jason's last name to do that. That always felt disjointed to me in VG, and I often didn't pursue further relationship building or group sessions with certain players b/c I simply couldn't remember their last name in the moment.
Without unique first names, you cut down on the iconic and identifiable names of players across the server. There was only one Fansy the Bard on that server. For me, in the first few months of the Prexus server, there was only one Fistandantilus, only one Ramuu, only one Yost, only one Myrdinn and Essie - those players and their names are iconic to me and I still remember them to this day because they were the only ones on that server.
When it comes to titles, they are only special to me when they are extremely rare and challenging to get. Otherwise, you just get used to seeing players with names 3 miles long b/c they've looted more bone chips than anyone else.
Last thought, on something like a Progeny system, depending on how we designed it, I actually think it makes perfect sense to have to earn a last name before you can bestow it on future characters.
Great discussion everyone - Brad and I are being a little internally transparent talking through this idea on the boards, but I like it. Keep the feedback coming!
Great topic Jason and I've been wanting to reply to this for a bit, finally found the time - excellent post Joppa and discussion between team and community. Since it's nearly impossible to break up quotes here, I'll bullet point list your paragraphs numerically.
1. 100% agree with you on the immersion breaking element of not having unique first names. Server Fame/Infamy is a huge deal and it is not the #1 immersion increase reason, but one of many, which make EQ memorable. The farther away we get from that original concept to appease players, the closer the game will reach Themepark levels (I know, it's minor in comparison to other themepark elements, but I don't believe players should always get what they want).
2. I'm with Kilsin here, there were unique first names in VG if I remember correctly so the /tell wasn't an issue. However, it would be an issue if there were not unique first names. Possibly an issue of convenience here as well, but if I can't remember someone's name to group - they won't be getting a tell especially when they had unique surnames like M'Knight. Even if you could friend firstname_lastname on a /friends list, it's still an unnecessary hassle.
3. See point #1. In complete agreement, server fame/infamy is a huge deal and helps make the world feel much more real and alive.
4. Titles in both EQ and VG were pointless. Way too many and ultimately everyone can get one. Even if it's a grandmaster title or a complete expansion title, eventually, even if it takes 2 expansions later, people will have them and none are truly unique. If titles were finite based off X number of people completing X objective, quest, exploration, tradeskill milestone, etc. then I might think different. Conversely, surnames in EQ did not feel trivial, they felt much more like a "right of passage" in that you felt a great sense of achievement at level 20 when you could have your surname. It could be my preference there, but I know based off playing P1999 I would still say the same thing.
5. Agree with the Progeny system, even if you didn't have to "earn" your last name, it makes more sense that your surname should be remembered/famous/infamous etc. after a certain period of levels and not just known at level 1. Think of a famous outlaw for example, they weren't known before their actions, they were known afterward.
6. Agreed - great discussion, and this is what I always had hoped the "Apprentice Developer" discussion would be like. Twofold benefit of great community interaction and honest feedback that could assist with development.
*One final thought I forgot to mention, you could also have some combination of the two. Select a First name / Surname at launch, but you don't see the character's surname at character creation and have the Unique First Name/Surname Combination be required. You could still lock the surname until after level 20 or a specific right of passage, etc. and still make the surname feel more memorable. It still would not be my preferred method as I believe server fame/infamy trumps player preference, but I think it would be a better solution still.
In Vanguard there was a merchant who sold titles for very cheap... please don't do this again.
Make titles specific for doing hard or off the beaten path type stuff.
Also keep the specifics of earning the titles behind the scenes for as long as possible. So maybe some of these will remain a mystery.
For instance... killing a raid mob with a skeleton crew of way less than the recommended amount of people could unlock a special achievement for that mob and possibly a title.
or what if certain titles could only be given out a number of times before they just stop being issued so only a few on the server might ever get that title.
Kiz~
Angrykiz said:
In Vanguard there was a merchant who sold titles for very cheap... please don't do this again.
Make titles specific for doing hard or off the beaten path type stuff.
Also keep the specifics of earning the titles behind the scenes for as long as possible. So maybe some of these will remain a mystery.
For instance... killing a raid mob with a skeleton crew of way less than the recommended amount of people could unlock a special achievement for that mob and possibly a title.
or what if certain titles could only be given out a number of times before they just stop being issued so only a few on the server might ever get that title.
Kiz~
Yes, this was on Tawar Galan, a single merchant NPC and most of them were fluff/cosmetic titles but still disappointing that anyone could get them for like 1-5g.
Properly titles like "The Dragon Slayer" or "Exemplar of all Telon" etc. were good examples of earned titles that you had to work for or be patient to get.
I prefer original first and last names but the last name should be earned ala EQ1 (lvl 20). I would like it if you could enter both names when you created the toon but the surname would not take effect till you reached a certain point whether that was level or quest advancement or title. I think the majority of people that support Pantheon have stated that the "reputation of a player should matter." I think along those lines. Also if you make it so that multiple first names are available then it should be manditory that when you add a person to your friends list that it also adds the last name/surname so if you type "/t jason hey man what's up?" and you get the notice that there are multiple Jasons online then you should be able to type /friendslist to see that the Jason you want to talk to is in fact "Jason sirpostsalot" and you can type that in to talk to your buddy.
I prefer EQ's take , unique first names and earning a last name at a certain level.
A few games have done the first / last name combo at char creation and I've never really enjoyed it as much. I would also have to agree that seeing multiple people running around with the same first name would be immersion breaking
I'm with the EQ1 crowd here, I want first names to be original. The whole famous/infamy/reputation reasons applying for the most part. Yes I understand peoples frustrations with creating their toon and finding their name taken, we have all been there, it sucks, but it is like someone else said - get over it and move on. Not to be harsh, it just is what it is. And like another said, I believe it is just one of what-will-be a million things people want but should not be given.
I do like how EQ did the surnames at level 20, it was kind of nice having to wait for 20 to do it. Some of us had it planned and could pick it at creation, others flip flopped up until the time came, My monk Fuzze had at least 50 suggestions before 20 >.> Munke, Navel, Bumm, etc
I would like naming policies that prevent any names used in popular culture, IE Drizzt, Wulfgar, Legolas.
Apologies if my post kind of takes a slant on what the OP intended. I had started my own post but then Kilsin closed it and referenced this post, despite the fact this post is about identical names, not naming policies so we don't see 20 different variations of Legolas.
I would also like to see the end of players using X at the beginning, end and at both ends of the name (XLegolasx)
I prefer unique first names as well.
Like Joppa, some of my favorite EQ memories were of specific players. Plus, some players are very creative with names and they should be rewarded by remaining unique. I would not like to be someone whose name is copied. While I agree that not getting your name is a bummer do we really expect a large enough player population where that would be a big issue?
Regarding surnames, I'm torn. I like the idea of earning a name or a title, but I'm born with a last name why can't I be a created character with one as well? If names or titles are earned in the game, which I am fine with, I'd like it to be more than just something you are told by friends about once you ding a level. I'd like it to be a quest line. Perhaps, through questing via your characters city and earning a family registry, you gain the right to name your family.
I also think it would be cool if you could decide how your name was written. Some Asian cultures put the family name first. In Sci-Fi we are Worf - son of Mogh.
This is abbit dissapointing i like unique first names and........ no last name unless you want it.
Joppa said: Unique first name, let me choose a last name at a higher level once I earn it.
Agreed!!
Unique name is the way to go. I don’t want to see some other guy running around with the same first name as me in Pantheon. I can just see the issues this is going to cause, as an example: If I have the name Roofia and someone else has the same first name Roofia what’s to stop this person from ruining my reputation on a server due to his indiscretions? If this second Roofia is training mobs onto groups or kill stealing and I end up getting blamed for his actions; I don’t think I would be happy with this as I travel the world of Pantheon and can’t find a group because someone with the same name as me has ruined my rep. All it takes is for a player to Fraps this second Roofia and send it to a GM and the GM questions me or the other guy and we both get suspended or something. People/Players tend not to remember last names very well, but they sure do remember the first names and word spreads fast of a shmuck screwing with people, and I prefer to avoid being caught up in this just becasue I have the same name as the shmuck. Just give players unique first names……..
Rint
I guess I have a unique take on this, in that I prefer unique last names. Think about it this way, there's 10,000 people named John in the world. However (and for the most part), most will have a different last name (let's keep this relatively simple, mind). John Smith is obviously different than John Riley or John Gomera. Thus it should be the last name and not the first to be unique (IE: for sending a tell, it could be /t lastname message). Now, to add on to this...why not have the ability to create a family. This would be something unique and would allow the sharing of a last name (Unique in that 2 players could then share a last name, at a disadvantage for having to use the /t first last message system or /alias system). I dunno, I just have never liked unique only first names, and prefer either unique full names or unique last names.
Gelax said:not a fan of "forced" lastnames
Not really a fan of "forced" first names either. I guess it's really just preference. A unique first/last combo would be nice, allowing the use of a wide variety of names (Wildstar, FFXIV, and a few others use this type of system).
unique first names.
Unique last names (if wanted). I can't see my we would need to wait or quest to get our last name as it would be something we are born with.
I like the idea of naming linked to culture. That is XXX son of/daughter of YYY - but do not think this should be mandatory.
I have a few names i use for male/female chars. I have a single lastname i have used across many many games. this is a human lastname which means i have to agonise over naming non-human characters.
Whatever we implement with naming, i would like to ensure that in story text etc that it be first name be used only. Eg, "thank you Anthor, we would not have survived the winter had you not opened the road and freed us from the undead scourge......" not 'thank you Anthor Stormbane...." the latter is too formal for normal chat. i note that in certain formal circumstances full name usage would be approrpiate (introductions to important figues etc)
For me, if having my uniqueness depend upon a first and last name combination equates to not sitting at the character create screen seeing "That name is not available" 40 times, then I'm all for it. Now, I've since come up with some fairly unique names and rarely have issues - but I know how frustrating it is sitting there as a new player wanting to get in the game, and having your first experience with the game the sensation of being annoyed as you sit there, seemingly forever, typing new names.
Wandidar said:For me, if having my uniqueness depend upon a first and last name combination equates to not sitting at the character create screen seeing "That name is not available" 40 times, then I'm all for it. Now, I've since come up with some fairly unique names and rarely have issues - but I know how frustrating it is sitting there as a new player wanting to get in the game, and having your first experience with the game the sensation of being annoyed as you sit there, seemingly forever, typing new names.
Investing a bit of time and effort into their characters name will actually help them, considering how much time and effort they will have to put into the game when they log in, it may be a good test of character to see how they deal with the first part. ;)
If someone wants to just blow through character select without a care in the world about their character or name and if they can't, that gets them easily frustrated, then applying the same thought process, they are going to have a bad time when they actually do finally log in, so this may not be the game for them!
There are so many variations and ways to spell names that I really don't see it as being a problem, especially since many of us have already claimed our names over the years and have a few backups in case of someone else taking them, obviously first come first serve in terms of proper spelling, but that has always been the case in most MMORPGs to date, so I don't see it being a big issue going forward.
Most of you will be able to secure your names via pledges and early testing access, so it will only be a problem for others down the track who come late to the party, and sometimes, life is unfair like that and people have to suck it up and move on. ;)